Greymoor: "A rework of the Vampire Skill Line"

OmniDo

Noxavian wrote: »

The lore master's words aren't on trial here, which is what I don't think you understand. He is literally getting paid a yearly salary to know Elder Scrolls lore and to make sure things that are implemented fit said lore. His lore isn't "on trial" it **literally** is the lore.

So by that logic, just because he can sign his name on: "Yep, I approve this message.", that makes it legit lore?
Well technically, sure.
George Lucas did the same with Disney, and well...we all know how that excrement-show turned out.

I mean, I get it, it's fantasy.
The Lore Master could literally say: "Today, vampires will feed on rainbows and unicorns."
Just because he's paid to do that doesn't make his declaration, anyone who sanctioned it, or anyone who lobbied/endorsed/recommended it any less stupid.

What I'm arguing is how stupid it is, not that someone has the authority to say or do said stupid thing, and it should just be arbitrarily accepted.

ShadowHvo

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

I think I love you.

Please accept my Pledge of Mara.

I agree 100%, but some people in this game obviously doesn't care about Elder Scrolls or its setting. Such a shame.

devaneiosonho

I think I missed the part where the devs talked about getting uglier the more you feed. Can someone please tell me when exactly it is said?

Really hoping it's not the happening, though. I'm getting tired of this stupid skin hiding my tattoos, and now we're getting uglier? Unfortunately Arctic Rime doesn't look good to me. Ugh, come on, ZOS.

ShadowHvo

devaneiosonho wrote: »

I think I missed the part where the devs talked about getting uglier the more you feed. Can someone please tell me when exactly it is said?

Really hoping it's not the happening, though. I'm getting tired of this stupid skin hiding my tattoos, and now we're getting uglier? Unfortunately Arctic Rime doesn't look good to me. Ugh, come on, ZOS.

Bethesda_DE's interview with Rich on twitch.

Stage 4 is now 1 appearance wise, so power = monstrous and well fed, and mortality = pretty and famished

devaneiosonho

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Bethesda_DE's interview with Rich on twitch.

Stage 4 is now 1 appearance wise, so power = monstrous and well fed, and mortality = pretty and famished

Why do this? Seriously. They can't even create a skin to HIDE this hideous form. The game is full of these ugly ass shiny skins, but a single skin to hide vampirism is too much. If this really happens I'm just getting cured. Not worth the time if you ask me.

Noxavian

ShadowHvo wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

I think I love you.

Please accept my Pledge of Mara.

I agree 100%, but some people in this game obviously doesn't care about Elder Scrolls or its setting. Such a shame.

Unfortunately, yet again, you are the minority. It's not "some" it's literally "more people like these changes than us".

Doesn't mean we don't care about Elder Scrolls lore either. We just know that the lore isn't set in stone. It can be changed, especially for better gameplay design. Which having to actually feed to grow stronger provides way better gameplay than not feeding at all and being the strongest. Sorry you don't like it, but that's how it is and how it'll stay.

But you betcha I'm going to enjoy your people's posts when the rework releases and low and behold *gasp* they didn't listen to the whiney super small portion of people on the forums that don't like the changes. Despite an overwhelming majority liking them and the lore being 100% sound regardless of what you think you know.

Noxavian

devaneiosonho wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Bethesda_DE's interview with Rich on twitch.

Stage 4 is now 1 appearance wise, so power = monstrous and well fed, and mortality = pretty and famished

Why do this? Seriously. They can't even create a skin to HIDE this hideous form. The game is full of these ugly ass shiny skins, but a single skin to hide vampirism is too much. If this really happens I'm just getting cured. Not worth the time if you ask me.

If you don't want to look like a vampire, don't be a vampire?

It's an optional disease. If you don't like the way it makes your char look then dont feed. Then you'll look less ugly.

devaneiosonho

Noxavian wrote: »

If you don't want to look like a vampire, don't be a vampire?

It's an optional disease. If you don't like the way it makes your char look then dont feed. Then you'll look less ugly.

It makes no sense. It throws everything we know about vampires in the trash. It's a retcon. Not that retcon is a bad thing by itself, but it is when it comes from nowhere, spitting on everything related to it.

As I see now, this change just makes things more annoying. The only difference between now and then is the need to feed. You'll still be ugly when stronger, less ugly when weaker. The only thing that comes to my mind is: WHY? Feeding less shouldn't make you prettier. It makes absolutely NO sense.

StormeReigns

Wierd direction. Honestly. Always figured, that to maintain a sense of subtlety and subterfuge a vampire wouldn't feed to keep their appearance more man / mer. But more, subdued the demon inside or give in to become more feral. And feeding would maintain the passives to benefit the civil or feral/monstrous appearance's power scale.

Thevampirenight

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

In a way it would be original when it comes to Vampires but I think it would still look a lot like Sith corruption from Swtor. What is unique about Elder Scrolls Vampires is there isn't just one vampire archtype there is many archtypes of vampire. Though here is how I would prefer them to do it. Do a toggle maybe one that allows you as a vampire to feed and look more mortal or feed and look more undead. But not a toggle that makes you look mortal. Can use a skin for that.

The vampirism we have in the game right now is based off the https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil_Vampyrum_Order feeding to be more mortal or not feeding to be more powerful was based off this very unique vampire clan.
Porphyric Hemophilia- is the vampire disease of both Morrowind and Oblivion. Now there is five variations. The Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order, Berne, Audane, Quarra and Outcast vampires. The other four are unique variations in Morrowind of the Porphyric Hemophilia disease. But unlike the Cyrodiil Porphyric Hemophilia. They are not able to blend in very well. Like at all.
The best example of this is https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vicente_Valtieri

He got his vampirism in Morrowind meaning hes one of the four vampire archtypes seen in Morrowind. At some point he Joins the Dark Brotherhoood. It can be assumed because he was turned by a Morrowind vampire he is unable to blend in even when well fed and he doesn't lose his vampiric power if he feeds. Though he can turn you into a cyrodiil style vampire because your in Cyrodiil you are able to have that ability when he himself can't have that. That is my theory on that.

Since technically its unique to the Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order and since Porphyric Hemophilia is the same disease but runs in different vampire family blood lines. But its only the Cyrodiil Vampires that have that unique four way stage system. They can blend in but it in turn weakens them. They are able to withstand sunlight because they feed but at the same time grow weaker as a vampire. That is the cost of this boon. They either starve to become powerful or feed to blend in. This boon was granted by Clavicus Vile the one responsible for the four stage vampire system, his finger prints in Elder Scrolls 5 are very clearly there as well with the Volkihar Vampires. They similar atttibutes to Cyrodiil vampires and because an entire cave of vampires worshiped him and went to him not Molag Bal to cure their vampirism. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Haemar's_Shame

Imperial society has great influence on Tamriel, the Cyrodiil Vampires unique ability to blend in wasn't unnoticed by vampire clans who wanted the same treatment. Clavicus Vile thus could have altered the Volkihar clan, but at a cost in immortal blood they are said to live beneath the ice of frozen lakes. Be able to freeze the blood in peoples with their breath. Among other things, such a deal likely cost them those abilities to replace them with abilties that help them blend in but the deal wasn't as good as the Cyrodiil Vampires so they able to blend in but its more noticeable and they don't get full sunlight immunity.

However the populace can't see the bat like buffy like vampire faces the Volkihar Vampires had. So they blend in a lot better. So they did get something from it. But at the cost of still either having to be well fed and sated and be weaker or at the cost of being powerful but very thirsty. Clavicus Vile gives some of what people want but it always comes with a catch.

Clavicus Vile and Hircine are what I considered more Rival princes or the polar opposites of the other here is why. Like the Imperials seems to be at times both self serving, but also is against threats to the general public. So is Clavicus Vile more like that greedy merchant that sets up shop and says things for bargains but the items are not what people expect. So he is the polar opposite of Hircine as Hircine is More Primal but more honorable and always keeps his bargins. Clavicus Vile is cosmopolitan and does deals with a catch. Cosmopolitan societies tend to hate threats to the General Public. Clavicus Vile sends out mortals at times to deal with threats to the General Public.

Werewolves and Hircine being more primal tend to be a threat to society. Vampires too but he curbs their blood lust so they can blend in better and that helps make them less of a threat. Vampires tend to be more Cosmopolitan in most Genres while Werewolves more primal in smaller villages. This is how it works in Vtm and that is how it works with the Cyrodiil.So the fact that the in game strain has the same Clavicus Vile touch. Is just copy and paste and ruining the uniqueness of clans that made bargains with Clavicus Vile to gain that ability. Glad they are changing it for that reason.

Now onto Hircine, In Eso lore the vampire strain we have is said to have been altered with a backroom deal between Hircine and Molag Bal. Here is my theory of how that went down.
I think it has to do with the Rivalry of Molag Bal and Meridia, Molag Bal likely wanted to see all his Rivals Influence and followers dead and gone. Now that is where this guy comes in. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Faolchu_the_Changeling
Now he was no normal werewolf, he was immune to everything all types of magic, all types of physical damage and also Silver given silver is a known werewolf weakness. He was literally like the Achilles of Elder Scrolls.

An Unstoppable General that couldn't be slain a worst nightmare scenario for any that come across him. Now he only had one vulnerability and that was fire. Fire made him vulnerable to normal damage as it was the only way to defeat him is if you get him ontop of a pile of fire. Now werewolves don't work normally work like that Hircine is the type that gives mortals a better chance of over coming his creations because he loves the hunter/prey dynamic so makes werewolves both he wouldn't make them invincible. He also seems to be very protective of his children and wants to claim them so they live in his realm after death. Faolchu_the_Changeling likely wanted more, he likely wanted to wipe out the Aylieds completely and finish the job that Pelinal couldn't. Becoming a hero the is idolized by many in the Empire. Just like the genocidal robot from the future.

He wanted to be more then just a Hircine pup he wanted to dominate and destroy his foes. So he went to Molag bal and Molag Bal couldn't give him what he wanted. Werewolves fall under the domain of Hircine. But Molag Bal might have been intrigued by the prospect another Pelinal that can not only kill off all the Ayleids but also destroy Meridias Influence completely. That is when Molag bal goes to Hircine like he does with Vaermina to get the Nerevarine the cure to Vampirism . Now that is possibly where the back room deal took place. When it happened Molag Bal likely Bargained a high price to be able to do it. He bargained away Lamae and his claim over the first vampire strain to Hircine and thus Molag Bal the ability to make Elder Scrolls Werewolf Achilles a force to be reckoned with.

However he couldn't make him completely immune to everything so he had one weakness. Because at the time it might not be widely used becoming vulnerable when standing in flame. However Mortals discovered his weakness and were able to kill him. However Molag Bal had Angof the gravesinger bring him from the dead and as undead he still had that invulnerability he had in life. Because of the deal Faolchu got pulled into Coldhabour this also explains why Hircine didn't claim him and Molag Bal did. Because he belonged to Molag Bal and he torments him for allowing his efforts to be in vain with fire.

Now unlike Clavicus Vile who requires starving oneself to be more powerful when it comes to vampires, Hircine when it comes to his werewolves requires them to hunt prey and feast to maintain the power of the werewolf form. Otherwise it gets weaker if you don't hunt in Morrowind you grow weaker and lose health coming morning.Which was not done in Eso or Skyrim but instead had to feed to keep the form up.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:Werewolf

With Hircine with a clan he alters he would make them like the werewolf they would have to feed and hunt to access their power. You have to hunt and feed and that is how Hircine would do it. As he wants vampires to hunt and feed. But if they use their abilties to much he would then requires them to feed more to regain that power that is the new vampirsm. That is the Hircine Touch. They are finally getting rid of Clavicus Vile style Vampirisim and replacing it with it Hircine Style Vampirsm as it should have been from the very beginning.

The whole Clavicus Vile vamprism this game had from the start was lore breaking anyways. At least they are fixing it. As Lamae says herself, feed and grow powerful. Clavicus Vile altered the Cyrodiilic Porphyric Hemophilia and Skyrim Sanguinare Vampiris vampires. Hircine seems to have altered the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria vampires so they shouldn't have Clavicus style vampirism.

Reason why Vampires are more undead when they feed with the New vampire overhaul is because Hircine likely altered it to work like this. So this would be a Hircine Style Vampire strain.
Hope that helps to explain all of this and my take on how vampirsm helps people here understand why the new changes make sense.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Thevampirenight wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

In a way it would be original when it comes to Vampires but I think it would still look a lot like Sith corruption from Swtor. What is unique about Elder Scrolls Vampires is there isn't just one vampire archtype there is many archtypes of vampire. Though here is how I would prefer them to do it. Do a toggle maybe one that allows you as a vampire to feed and look more mortal or feed and look more undead. But not a toggle that makes you look mortal. Can use a skin for that.

The vampirism we have in the game right now is based off the https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil_Vampyrum_Order feeding to be more mortal or not feeding to be more powerful was based off this very unique vampire clan.
Porphyric Hemophilia- is the vampire disease of both Morrowind and Oblivion. Now there is five variations. The Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order, Berne, Audane, Quarra and Outcast vampires. The other four are unique variations in Morrowind of the Porphyric Hemophilia disease. But unlike the Cyrodiil Porphyric Hemophilia. They are not able to blend in very well. Like at all.
The best example of this is https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vicente_Valtieri

He got his vampirism in Morrowind meaning hes one of the four vampire archtypes seen in Morrowind. At some point he Joins the Dark Brotherhoood. It can be assumed because he was turned by a Morrowind vampire he is unable to blend in even when well fed and he doesn't lose his vampiric power if he feeds. Though he can turn you into a cyrodiil style vampire because your in Cyrodiil you are able to have that ability when he himself can't have that. That is my theory on that.

Since technically its unique to the Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order and since Porphyric Hemophilia is the same disease but runs in different vampire family blood lines. But its only the Cyrodiil Vampires that have that unique four way stage system. They can blend in but it in turn weakens them. They are able to withstand sunlight because they feed but at the same time grow weaker as a vampire. That is the cost of this boon. They either starve to become powerful or feed to blend in. This boon was granted by Clavicus Vile the one responsible for the four stage vampire system, his finger prints in Elder Scrolls 5 are very clearly there as well with the Volkihar Vampires. They similar atttibutes to Cyrodiil vampires and because an entire cave of vampires worshiped him and went to him not Molag Bal to cure their vampirism. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Haemar's_Shame

Imperial society has great influence on Tamriel, the Cyrodiil Vampires unique ability to blend in wasn't unnoticed by vampire clans who wanted the same treatment. Clavicus Vile thus could have altered the Volkihar clan, but at a cost in immortal blood they are said to live beneath the ice of frozen lakes. Be able to freeze the blood in peoples with their breath. Among other things, such a deal likely cost them those abilities to replace them with abilties that help them blend in but the deal wasn't as good as the Cyrodiil Vampires so they able to blend in but its more noticeable and they don't get full sunlight immunity.

However the populace can't see the bat like buffy like vampire faces the Volkihar Vampires had. So they blend in a lot better. So they did get something from it. But at the cost of still either having to be well fed and sated and be weaker or at the cost of being powerful but very thirsty. Clavicus Vile gives some of what people want but it always comes with a catch.

Clavicus Vile and Hircine are what I considered more Rival princes or the polar opposites of the other here is why. Like the Imperials seems to be at times both self serving, but also is against threats to the general public. So is Clavicus Vile more like that greedy merchant that sets up shop and says things for bargains but the items are not what people expect. So he is the polar opposite of Hircine as Hircine is More Primal but more honorable and always keeps his bargins. Clavicus Vile is cosmopolitan and does deals with a catch. Cosmopolitan societies tend to hate threats to the General Public. Clavicus Vile sends out mortals at times to deal with threats to the General Public.

Werewolves and Hircine being more primal tend to be a threat to society. Vampires too but he curbs their blood lust so they can blend in better and that helps make them less of a threat. Vampires tend to be more Cosmopolitan in most Genres while Werewolves more primal in smaller villages. This is how it works in Vtm and that is how it works with the Cyrodiil.So the fact that the in game strain has the same Clavicus Vile touch. Is just copy and paste and ruining the uniqueness of clans that made bargains with Clavicus Vile to gain that ability. Glad they are changing it for that reason.

Now onto Hircine, In Eso lore the vampire strain we have is said to have been altered with a backroom deal between Hircine and Molag Bal. Here is my theory of how that went down.
I think it has to do with the Rivalry of Molag Bal and Meridia, Molag Bal likely wanted to see all his Rivals Influence and followers dead and gone. Now that is where this guy comes in. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Faolchu_the_Changeling
Now he was no normal werewolf, he was immune to everything all types of magic, all types of physical damage and also Silver given silver is a known werewolf weakness. He was literally like the Achilles of Elder Scrolls.

An Unstoppable General that couldn't be slain a worst nightmare scenario for any that come across him. Now he only had one vulnerability and that was fire. Fire made him vulnerable to normal damage as it was the only way to defeat him is if you get him ontop of a pile of fire. Now werewolves don't work normally work like that Hircine is the type that gives mortals a better chance of over coming his creations because he loves the hunter/prey dynamic so makes werewolves both he wouldn't make them invincible. He also seems to be very protective of his children and wants to claim them so they live in his realm after death. Faolchu_the_Changeling likely wanted more, he likely wanted to wipe out the Aylieds completely and finish the job that Pelinal couldn't. Becoming a hero the is idolized by many in the Empire. Just like the genocidal robot from the future.

He wanted to be more then just a Hircine pup he wanted to dominate and destroy his foes. So he went to Molag bal and Molag Bal couldn't give him what he wanted. Werewolves fall under the domain of Hircine. But Molag Bal might have been intrigued by the prospect another Pelinal that can not only kill off all the Ayleids but also destroy Meridias Influence completely. That is when Molag bal goes to Hircine like he does with Vaermina to get the Nerevarine the cure to Vampirism . Now that is possibly where the back room deal took place. When it happened Molag Bal likely Bargained a high price to be able to do it. He bargained away Lamae and his claim over the first vampire strain to Hircine and thus Molag Bal the ability to make Elder Scrolls Werewolf Achilles a force to be reckoned with.

However he couldn't make him completely immune to everything so he had one weakness. Because at the time it might not be widely used becoming vulnerable when standing in flame. However Mortals discovered his weakness and were able to kill him. However Molag Bal had Angof the gravesinger bring him from the dead and as undead he still had that invulnerability he had in life. Because of the deal Faolchu got pulled into Coldhabour this also explains why Hircine didn't claim him and Molag Bal did. Because he belonged to Molag Bal and he torments him for allowing his efforts to be in vain with fire.

Now unlike Clavicus Vile who requires starving oneself to be more powerful when it comes to vampires, Hircine when it comes to his werewolves requires them to hunt prey and feast to maintain the power of the werewolf form. Otherwise it gets weaker if you don't hunt in Morrowind you grow weaker and lose health coming morning.Which was not done in Eso or Skyrim but instead had to feed to keep the form up.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:Werewolf

With Hircine with a clan he alters he would make them like the werewolf they would have to feed and hunt to access their power. You have to hunt and feed and that is how Hircine would do it. As he wants vampires to hunt and feed. But if they use their abilties to much he would then requires them to feed more to regain that power that is the new vampirsm. That is the Hircine Touch. They are finally getting rid of Clavicus Vile style Vampirisim and replacing it with it Hircine Style Vampirsm as it should have been from the very beginning.

The whole Clavicus Vile vamprism this game had from the start was lore breaking anyways. At least they are fixing it. As Lamae says herself, feed and grow powerful. Clavicus Vile altered the Cyrodiilic Porphyric Hemophilia and Skyrim Sanguinare Vampiris vampires. Hircine seems to have altered the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria vampires so they shouldn't have Clavicus style vampirism.

Reason why Vampires are more undead when they feed with the New vampire overhaul is because Hircine likely altered it to work like this. So this would be a Hircine Style Vampire strain.
Hope that helps to explain all of this and my take on how vampirsm helps people here understand why the new changes make sense.

Why would Molag Bal allow Hircine to effect the very first strain of Vampire?

Maybe he is the reason they can transform into a Vampire Lord and maybe the reason why they cannot control said transformation unlike the Volkihar Vampires because face it it's gonna have a time limit like Werewolf does.

Nemesis7884

Integral1900 wrote: »

They are going to get rid of that gorgeous bat swarm ultimate aren’t they... might not be hard hitting but it’s soooo unbearably cool to watch. Now we get to turn into some gormless looking man bat 🤮

Sigh........

i doubt that, i think they will keep it and turn it into a skill...so they have to animate one less skill...why would they throw that work away...zos likes re-using existing animations and skills so they dont have to program new stuff (they do the same thing with motifs)

It also makes sense so you get a drain/individual attack, an aoe attack (bats), a movement skill with the mist, a transformation for the ultimate... now pick your poison for the last 2 skills... my guess is on a stealth skill and maybe some sort of debuff

Thevampirenight

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

In a way it would be original when it comes to Vampires but I think it would still look a lot like Sith corruption from Swtor. What is unique about Elder Scrolls Vampires is there isn't just one vampire archtype there is many archtypes of vampire. Though here is how I would prefer them to do it. Do a toggle maybe one that allows you as a vampire to feed and look more mortal or feed and look more undead. But not a toggle that makes you look mortal. Can use a skin for that.

The vampirism we have in the game right now is based off the https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil_Vampyrum_Order feeding to be more mortal or not feeding to be more powerful was based off this very unique vampire clan.
Porphyric Hemophilia- is the vampire disease of both Morrowind and Oblivion. Now there is five variations. The Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order, Berne, Audane, Quarra and Outcast vampires. The other four are unique variations in Morrowind of the Porphyric Hemophilia disease. But unlike the Cyrodiil Porphyric Hemophilia. They are not able to blend in very well. Like at all.
The best example of this is https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vicente_Valtieri

He got his vampirism in Morrowind meaning hes one of the four vampire archtypes seen in Morrowind. At some point he Joins the Dark Brotherhoood. It can be assumed because he was turned by a Morrowind vampire he is unable to blend in even when well fed and he doesn't lose his vampiric power if he feeds. Though he can turn you into a cyrodiil style vampire because your in Cyrodiil you are able to have that ability when he himself can't have that. That is my theory on that.

Since technically its unique to the Cyrodiil Vampyrum Order and since Porphyric Hemophilia is the same disease but runs in different vampire family blood lines. But its only the Cyrodiil Vampires that have that unique four way stage system. They can blend in but it in turn weakens them. They are able to withstand sunlight because they feed but at the same time grow weaker as a vampire. That is the cost of this boon. They either starve to become powerful or feed to blend in. This boon was granted by Clavicus Vile the one responsible for the four stage vampire system, his finger prints in Elder Scrolls 5 are very clearly there as well with the Volkihar Vampires. They similar atttibutes to Cyrodiil vampires and because an entire cave of vampires worshiped him and went to him not Molag Bal to cure their vampirism. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Haemar's_Shame

Imperial society has great influence on Tamriel, the Cyrodiil Vampires unique ability to blend in wasn't unnoticed by vampire clans who wanted the same treatment. Clavicus Vile thus could have altered the Volkihar clan, but at a cost in immortal blood they are said to live beneath the ice of frozen lakes. Be able to freeze the blood in peoples with their breath. Among other things, such a deal likely cost them those abilities to replace them with abilties that help them blend in but the deal wasn't as good as the Cyrodiil Vampires so they able to blend in but its more noticeable and they don't get full sunlight immunity.

However the populace can't see the bat like buffy like vampire faces the Volkihar Vampires had. So they blend in a lot better. So they did get something from it. But at the cost of still either having to be well fed and sated and be weaker or at the cost of being powerful but very thirsty. Clavicus Vile gives some of what people want but it always comes with a catch.

Clavicus Vile and Hircine are what I considered more Rival princes or the polar opposites of the other here is why. Like the Imperials seems to be at times both self serving, but also is against threats to the general public. So is Clavicus Vile more like that greedy merchant that sets up shop and says things for bargains but the items are not what people expect. So he is the polar opposite of Hircine as Hircine is More Primal but more honorable and always keeps his bargins. Clavicus Vile is cosmopolitan and does deals with a catch. Cosmopolitan societies tend to hate threats to the General Public. Clavicus Vile sends out mortals at times to deal with threats to the General Public.

Werewolves and Hircine being more primal tend to be a threat to society. Vampires too but he curbs their blood lust so they can blend in better and that helps make them less of a threat. Vampires tend to be more Cosmopolitan in most Genres while Werewolves more primal in smaller villages. This is how it works in Vtm and that is how it works with the Cyrodiil.So the fact that the in game strain has the same Clavicus Vile touch. Is just copy and paste and ruining the uniqueness of clans that made bargains with Clavicus Vile to gain that ability. Glad they are changing it for that reason.

Now onto Hircine, In Eso lore the vampire strain we have is said to have been altered with a backroom deal between Hircine and Molag Bal. Here is my theory of how that went down.
I think it has to do with the Rivalry of Molag Bal and Meridia, Molag Bal likely wanted to see all his Rivals Influence and followers dead and gone. Now that is where this guy comes in. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Faolchu_the_Changeling
Now he was no normal werewolf, he was immune to everything all types of magic, all types of physical damage and also Silver given silver is a known werewolf weakness. He was literally like the Achilles of Elder Scrolls.

An Unstoppable General that couldn't be slain a worst nightmare scenario for any that come across him. Now he only had one vulnerability and that was fire. Fire made him vulnerable to normal damage as it was the only way to defeat him is if you get him ontop of a pile of fire. Now werewolves don't work normally work like that Hircine is the type that gives mortals a better chance of over coming his creations because he loves the hunter/prey dynamic so makes werewolves both he wouldn't make them invincible. He also seems to be very protective of his children and wants to claim them so they live in his realm after death. Faolchu_the_Changeling likely wanted more, he likely wanted to wipe out the Aylieds completely and finish the job that Pelinal couldn't. Becoming a hero the is idolized by many in the Empire. Just like the genocidal robot from the future.

He wanted to be more then just a Hircine pup he wanted to dominate and destroy his foes. So he went to Molag bal and Molag Bal couldn't give him what he wanted. Werewolves fall under the domain of Hircine. But Molag Bal might have been intrigued by the prospect another Pelinal that can not only kill off all the Ayleids but also destroy Meridias Influence completely. That is when Molag bal goes to Hircine like he does with Vaermina to get the Nerevarine the cure to Vampirism . Now that is possibly where the back room deal took place. When it happened Molag Bal likely Bargained a high price to be able to do it. He bargained away Lamae and his claim over the first vampire strain to Hircine and thus Molag Bal the ability to make Elder Scrolls Werewolf Achilles a force to be reckoned with.

However he couldn't make him completely immune to everything so he had one weakness. Because at the time it might not be widely used becoming vulnerable when standing in flame. However Mortals discovered his weakness and were able to kill him. However Molag Bal had Angof the gravesinger bring him from the dead and as undead he still had that invulnerability he had in life. Because of the deal Faolchu got pulled into Coldhabour this also explains why Hircine didn't claim him and Molag Bal did. Because he belonged to Molag Bal and he torments him for allowing his efforts to be in vain with fire.

Now unlike Clavicus Vile who requires starving oneself to be more powerful when it comes to vampires, Hircine when it comes to his werewolves requires them to hunt prey and feast to maintain the power of the werewolf form. Otherwise it gets weaker if you don't hunt in Morrowind you grow weaker and lose health coming morning.Which was not done in Eso or Skyrim but instead had to feed to keep the form up.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:Werewolf

With Hircine with a clan he alters he would make them like the werewolf they would have to feed and hunt to access their power. You have to hunt and feed and that is how Hircine would do it. As he wants vampires to hunt and feed. But if they use their abilties to much he would then requires them to feed more to regain that power that is the new vampirsm. That is the Hircine Touch. They are finally getting rid of Clavicus Vile style Vampirisim and replacing it with it Hircine Style Vampirsm as it should have been from the very beginning.

The whole Clavicus Vile vamprism this game had from the start was lore breaking anyways. At least they are fixing it. As Lamae says herself, feed and grow powerful. Clavicus Vile altered the Cyrodiilic Porphyric Hemophilia and Skyrim Sanguinare Vampiris vampires. Hircine seems to have altered the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria vampires so they shouldn't have Clavicus style vampirism.

Reason why Vampires are more undead when they feed with the New vampire overhaul is because Hircine likely altered it to work like this. So this would be a Hircine Style Vampire strain.
Hope that helps to explain all of this and my take on how vampirsm helps people here understand why the new changes make sense.

Why would Molag Bal allow Hircine to effect the very first strain of Vampire?

Maybe he is the reason they can transform into a Vampire Lord and maybe the reason why they cannot control said transformation unlike the Volkihar Vampires because face it it's gonna have a time limit like Werewolf does.

Molag Bal created vampires to get at one of his rivals. Hes the type of prince that schemes and plots. Plots his domination's and conquests. Comes up with schemes and acts upon them. Most of his followers are expendable and only worth something if they proves themselves to him he hates failure. Making Bargains that benefit him he will do it. Even his children are expendable and if they disapoint them he has them killed or tortured for all time. If he does take souls, its more to personally torture them or make soul shrivens so he can continue on with whatever scheme that requires them. Then use the Souls for other purposes whether it be the anchors, or even as currency.

Vampires have Molags essense with in them and unless he has a magical artifact to control them. Like in the Orchard, they have the will to resist him. Its much easier to create Soul Shriven for his needs and the soul shriven serve as expendable slaves. That can work to complete Molag Bal's massive projects.
Daedra princes are beyond Mortal beliefs about them. As for why Molag Bal did the plane meld. There could be any number of reasons one he wanted to control Nirn, as he might have controled Lyg and another possibility here. His realm is all ruined, like trash dump, maybe trying to upgrade to better real estate that is better for him and gives him access to all kinds of new soul shrivens and souls to expand his power and holdings and give himself great bragging rights to his fellow princes.
Basically Molag Bal is the type of personality that has no respect for consent. He is after all the King of Ravage using Zenimax's Term for it.

He does what he wants whenever he chooses (( He's still bound by certain rules so he can't do it all the time just when he can get away with it.)) Once something has expended its use he discards or barters away for other things he does want and once he gets done with those he likely discards or trades. That is why its possible the Lamae blood line could have been traded because Daedric princes and daedra do trade and barter. As a Schemer Prince Molag Bal does it to advance his own goals and schemes this can be seen in Morrowind when he gets a vampire that wants to be cured. Requires the vampire take out his own daughter and some ice attronach so he can get a hold of them and torture them for all time. In Return he goes to the Daedric Prince of Nightmares and gets the Cure for vampirism if you do the cure quest. .

That is what he is willing to do, he could care less about the vampire he just wanted to torture his daughter. Would he sell or sacrifice his own children yes he would. Would he cure vampirsim to get access to a certain soul yes he would. Just like Harkon would murder his own Daughter just to take out the sun. Molag Bal will do anything to advance his schemes and that is how he operates. With that he concedes his control over that blood line if it benefits him to give it away he'll do it. He can create more hes got many vampire strains he has access to since he created many but not all of them but many of them.
He didn't create all vampire strains but hes the main source for the condition. So trading a few to his fellow princes isn't out of the question.

Molag Bals control over Vampirsm isn't very great one he's unable to cure the condition on his own. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:A_Cure_for_Vampirism
Nor is he able to take the Spirits of deceased vampires, going by Azuras Quest in Oblivion. So unlike Lycanthrope souls, Vampire souls are able to move on to where they see fit because once they are slain they are free from the curse. Still If they devoutly worship Molag Bal they can still end up in Coldhabour. Which I can see being the case with vampires like Harkon who likely ended up there.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Azura
Thank you, mortal. Their spirits are free, and henceforth, above my shrine, five bright candles shall burn forever in memory of their sacrifice. For your service, take this token, that your deeds might be entered in the Book of Fate.

darthgummibear_ESO

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful because that is something you give up in turn.

This has yet to be confirmed one way or the other.

Thevampirenight

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful because that is something you give up in turn.

This has yet to be confirmed one way or the other.

They confirmed it basically in the german live stream. Clip from the German Live stream.
https://clips.twitch.tv/CreativeTastyOysterPraiseIt
The full Video live stream just skip to the part where Rich comes on as he speaks in English and the one guy translates it gives more details on what they are doing this year. Including what they are doing with Vampires and how they are changing them.


Vampirsm right now in Game.
Stage one- Starve go Stage 2- Power Grows Starve go to stage 3- Power Grows Starve go to Stage Four Peak of Power.
6Hr ST Goes this way -->
New System
Stage one- Feed go to Stage 2 Power Grows. Feed Go to Stage 3 Power Grows, Feed Go to Stage Four Power at peak.
6 Hr St goes this way <--
So what they are doing is flipping it around. Feed to grow more powerful, Stage timer instead of taking you from stage one to stage four the new system if your at stage 4 the timer will take you to stage one.
So you will actually have to feed several times to get to stage four instead of starving yourself. To keep up your stage four you actually have to feed. Or the Timer will take you down to Stage Three then to Stage Two and then to Stage One.

darthgummibear_ESO

Thevampirenight wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful because that is something you give up in turn.

This has yet to be confirmed one way or the other.

They confirmed it basically in the german live stream. Clip from the German Live stream.
https://clips.twitch.tv/CreativeTastyOysterPraiseIt
The full Video live stream just skip to the part where Rich comes on as he speaks in English and the one guy translates it gives more details on what they are doing this year. Including what they are doing with Vampires and how they are changing them.


Vampirsm right now in Game.
Stage one- Starve go Stage 2- Power Grows Starve go to stage 3- Power Grows Starve go to Stage Four Peak of Power.
6Hr ST Goes this way -->
New System
Stage one- Feed go to Stage 2 Power Grows. Feed Go to Stage 3 Power Grows, Feed Go to Stage Four Power at peak.
6 Hr St goes this way <--
So what they are doing is flipping it around. Feed to grow more powerful, Stage timer instead of taking you from stage one to stage four the new system if your at stage 4 the timer will take you to stage one.
So you will actually have to feed several times to get to stage four instead of starving yourself. To keep up your stage four you actually have to feed. Or the Timer will take you down to Stage Three then to Stage Two and then to Stage One.

I was saying there has been no confirmation on the visual aspect. They could easily flip the visual stages too, so the more powerful stage would be like stage 1 is now, which incidentally would help alleviate people's problems with current stage 4 nuking body and facial markings since that is a problem they have never even acknowledged.

Thevampirenight

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful because that is something you give up in turn.

This has yet to be confirmed one way or the other.

They confirmed it basically in the german live stream. Clip from the German Live stream.
https://clips.twitch.tv/CreativeTastyOysterPraiseIt
The full Video live stream just skip to the part where Rich comes on as he speaks in English and the one guy translates it gives more details on what they are doing this year. Including what they are doing with Vampires and how they are changing them.


Vampirsm right now in Game.
Stage one- Starve go Stage 2- Power Grows Starve go to stage 3- Power Grows Starve go to Stage Four Peak of Power.
6Hr ST Goes this way -->
New System
Stage one- Feed go to Stage 2 Power Grows. Feed Go to Stage 3 Power Grows, Feed Go to Stage Four Power at peak.
6 Hr St goes this way <--
So what they are doing is flipping it around. Feed to grow more powerful, Stage timer instead of taking you from stage one to stage four the new system if your at stage 4 the timer will take you to stage one.
So you will actually have to feed several times to get to stage four instead of starving yourself. To keep up your stage four you actually have to feed. Or the Timer will take you down to Stage Three then to Stage Two and then to Stage One.

I was saying there has been no confirmation on the visual aspect. They could easily flip the visual stages too, so the more powerful stage would be like stage 1 is now, which incidentally would help alleviate people's problems with current stage 4 nuking body and facial markings since that is a problem they have never even acknowledged.

Sadly I think they are not going to do that. Hope they do but I don't count on them doing it.

Brandathorbel

I thought vampires were supposed to be sexy.

Emma_Overload

Noxavian wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are keeping Mistform and Drain more or less as they are. They might change some functionality about them but they said they won't replace them with other skills. Beyond that they will add 3 more skills and a new ultimate. They are changing the passives although Undeath stays.

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful because that is something you give up in turn. They also added new feeding animations that dynamically change depending on factors like distance to the target etc just like the Blade of Woe.

Vampiric abilities as well as Werewolf abilities will now count as crimes.

That's pretty much what we know.

They aren't keeping mist form and vamp drain as they are, the only thing we know is that they are keeping the abilities thematic wise. 100% they'll be changed in functionality. For example mist form is probably going to br reworked into a "mist dash", similar to what we saw in the trailer.

Still keeps the mist theme and function, but is better and updated.

Basically, I'll be surprised if v drain and mist form stay 100% the same, since it's a complete rework of the skill line. I'd be pretty disappointed tbh, considering both of them have useless morphs. (Poison mist and speed drain)

"Speed drain" is by far the superior morph. Getting 2 damage ticks in 1 gcd is huge.

ShadowHvo

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful because that is something you give up in turn.

This has yet to be confirmed one way or the other.

Incorrect.

Rich said it in the interview with Bethesda_DE. He said it in plain english too, so it wasn't a translation error.

ShadowHvo

Noxavian wrote: »

But you betcha I'm going to enjoy your people's posts when the rework releases and low and behold *gasp* they didn't listen to the whiney super small portion of people on the forums that don't like the changes. Despite an overwhelming majority liking them and the lore being 100% sound regardless of what you think you know.

I don't mind a bit of narcissism, but you're overdoing it. Enjoy your forever butchered Necromancer and this bastardization of Vampirism.

Just goes to show the bias when you're completely okay with one but against the other.

I prefer Elder Scrolls to be the Elder Scrolls that I love and care for, the fantasy setting I fell in love with. But I know that concept is alien to you, and frankly I don't care at this point.

ZoS can either listen or don't. You may be right, you may be wrong, only time will tell.

Sephyr

Noxavian wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

I think I love you.

Please accept my Pledge of Mara.

I agree 100%, but some people in this game obviously doesn't care about Elder Scrolls or its setting. Such a shame.

Unfortunately, yet again, you are the minority. It's not "some" it's literally "more people like these changes than us".

Doesn't mean we don't care about Elder Scrolls lore either. We just know that the lore isn't set in stone. It can be changed, especially for better gameplay design. Which having to actually feed to grow stronger provides way better gameplay than not feeding at all and being the strongest. Sorry you don't like it, but that's how it is and how it'll stay.

But you betcha I'm going to enjoy your people's posts when the rework releases and low and behold *gasp* they didn't listen to the whiney super small portion of people on the forums that don't like the changes. Despite an overwhelming majority liking them and the lore being 100% sound regardless of what you think you know.

I'll bring popcorn and marshmallows!

But totally agree with the lore bit. It's one thing that I've always accepted in both video games and tabletop. I can't wait for it though because vampire will actually not be boring like it is now.

Tan9oSuccka

CASP3R421 wrote: »

how tf you crutch a passive?

Undeath, Psijic ultimate back bar and mist are insanely broken in PVP.

Just about every JoePro420 is running this configuration.

There’s no drawbacks at all. Why wouldn’t you use it?

Noxavian

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are keeping Mistform and Drain more or less as they are. They might change some functionality about them but they said they won't replace them with other skills. Beyond that they will add 3 more skills and a new ultimate. They are changing the passives although Undeath stays.

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful because that is something you give up in turn. They also added new feeding animations that dynamically change depending on factors like distance to the target etc just like the Blade of Woe.

Vampiric abilities as well as Werewolf abilities will now count as crimes.

That's pretty much what we know.

They aren't keeping mist form and vamp drain as they are, the only thing we know is that they are keeping the abilities thematic wise. 100% they'll be changed in functionality. For example mist form is probably going to br reworked into a "mist dash", similar to what we saw in the trailer.

Still keeps the mist theme and function, but is better and updated.

Basically, I'll be surprised if v drain and mist form stay 100% the same, since it's a complete rework of the skill line. I'd be pretty disappointed tbh, considering both of them have useless morphs. (Poison mist and speed drain)

"Speed drain" is by far the superior morph. Getting 2 damage ticks in 1 gcd is huge.

Fair, though I just hope they adjust the skill and morphs over all.

Noxavian

Sephyr wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

OmniDo wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They are also reversing how feeding works so that feeding makes your vampiric powers stronger (advancing you in the stages instead of resetting you). You will also still look your ugliest at your most powerful...

That...is just stupid.
Flat out, no holds barred, stupid.

The whole point of the desiccated, exsanguinated, pale and purple-veined appearance, was to reflect what undeath LOOKS LIKE.
So theyre going to make you MORE ugly when you're fully fed?
That's counter to any and all vampire lore just about anywhere in human fictional history, with few exceptions noted below for context (or lack thereof)

1. Can't justify it from Nosferatu, because we have absolutely no context regarding how hungry, or even if hunger mattered, for the vampire depicted in that film.
2. Can't reference Eli Damaskinos from Blade 2, because vampires in Blade were not supernatural, they were biological mutants who still aged, albeit slowly.
3. Twilight is out because the author themselves was quoted as "knowing nothing about vampire fiction", prior to writing the series, and while all the vampires of that lore had a pale complexion, the only aspect about them that changed with their hunger/diet was the color of their eyes.

What Z0$ is doing is fundamentally "rebooting" Vampires in Elder Scrolls Lore, at the behest of their constituents.
Be advised, the content below is intended to be direct and harsh criticism, so proceed at your own risk.

You might as well no longer call this game Elder Scrolls, more like Elder Trolls or Elder Snowflakes, because these folks are the ones influencing and changing the environment, just because they don't like it.
Well too bad.
That's the way the story goes.
You don't go and rewrite history just because you don't like the facts, and if you do, you deserve the full brunt and force of ridicule, shame, and disgust, just for your impertinence alone.

My sincere feedback to anyone who is promoting these changes can be nothing less than both brutal and simple:
I hate it, which consequently makes it very difficult not to simultaneously hate any of you who either suggested, and/or support it, too.

Quit ****ing up the game for many who enjoy it exactly the way it is.
And no, you don't get to use justifications like: "Well things change."
Yeah, they do, and often for the worse when stupidity is involved.

You don't like the way Elder Scrolls Vampires are? Don't play one, period.
And just stop it with the vampire passive crutch-excuses.
You can play this game just fine without being a vampire.
You do not have to rely on the mathematical META which reflects a statistically insignificant margin of overall impact.
The developers did not build their game, nor its content, with a requirement for all characters to be vampires in order to complete said content.

I think I love you.

Please accept my Pledge of Mara.

I agree 100%, but some people in this game obviously doesn't care about Elder Scrolls or its setting. Such a shame.

Unfortunately, yet again, you are the minority. It's not "some" it's literally "more people like these changes than us".

Doesn't mean we don't care about Elder Scrolls lore either. We just know that the lore isn't set in stone. It can be changed, especially for better gameplay design. Which having to actually feed to grow stronger provides way better gameplay than not feeding at all and being the strongest. Sorry you don't like it, but that's how it is and how it'll stay.

But you betcha I'm going to enjoy your people's posts when the rework releases and low and behold *gasp* they didn't listen to the whiney super small portion of people on the forums that don't like the changes. Despite an overwhelming majority liking them and the lore being 100% sound regardless of what you think you know.

I'll bring popcorn and marshmallows!

But totally agree with the lore bit. It's one thing that I've always accepted in both video games and tabletop. I can't wait for it though because vampire will actually not be boring like it is now.

Make sure to save me some! This is what that small handful of people can't understand sadly. I find it ironic they're changing how vamps feed and they act like some sacred pact of the freaking gods has been broken. It's entertaining.

Noxavian

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

But you betcha I'm going to enjoy your people's posts when the rework releases and low and behold *gasp* they didn't listen to the whiney super small portion of people on the forums that don't like the changes. Despite an overwhelming majority liking them and the lore being 100% sound regardless of what you think you know.

I don't mind a bit of narcissism, but you're overdoing it. Enjoy your forever butchered Necromancer and this bastardization of Vampirism.

Just goes to show the bias when you're completely okay with one but against the other.

I prefer Elder Scrolls to be the Elder Scrolls that I love and care for, the fantasy setting I fell in love with. But I know that concept is alien to you, and frankly I don't care at this point.

ZoS can either listen or don't. You may be right, you may be wrong, only time will tell.

There's a bit of a difference than getting an ENTIRE class wrong and being upsetti spahgetti about vamps having to feed.

And I'm sorry that vamps having to feed goes so hard against what you love about Elder Scrolls. If you aren't open to changes here and there, I'd recommend sticking strictly to the single player games and maybe not being so invested in the lore of the place.

If you cannot accept that lore can change and isn't set in stone and whine when something relatively small is adjusted for better gameplay, then are you really a fan? Or just a lore elitist who likes to think they know everything and hates the thought of having to learn something new? Being a fan of Elder Scrolls also involves, you guessed it, being fine with lore adjustments. Not saying to follow all lore changes blindly, but when something like this is made to make gameplay better and to provide us with something we haven't had before, I don't think that's a hill worth dying on. It's still Elder Scrolls, it's sad that you don't understand that.


You remind me a lot of my friend that straight up won't play ESO despite being the biggest Elder Scrolls fan I know because he thinks the game breaks lore. Instead of viewing the game as a chance to experience new lore, he chooses to focus on things he personally thinks doesn't fit the lore.

Contrary to what you think, friend, I love Elder Scrolls. It's my favorite setting and lore for any video game and has provided me with many childhood memories.

However, because I love the game so much, I'm open to SOME changes in the lore to experience something new. I'm not saying we should be open to say them going as far as adding a shout skill line or something (a ridiculous idea), but with small things like vamp feeding it'll be fine.

Who knows, maybe you'll like how they play? It's a small change and shouldn't effect how you view Elder Scrolls, is more or less what im getting at.

devaneiosonho

The changing on how the vampire feeding works is not the problem in my opinion. The stupidity of getting stronger the more hungry you get came first in Oblivion and I couldn't care less about a lot of things introduced in Oblivion.

In both Daggerfall and Morrowind you do NOT get stronger when you refuse to feed. In daggerfall if you neglect your feeding, you cannot even regen your attributes. In Morrowind there is no actual "feeding" system, only a skill used to drain health, since you can't regenerate naturally, but still, no idiotic idea of getting stronger when starving.

My problem is ZOS' need to *** on my parade. Why also change how the appearance works? WHY get uglier when you're on your best? Ugh.

butterrum222

I hope the sneak speed bonus stays

Brandathorbel

butterrum222 wrote: »

I hope the sneak speed bonus stays

if it doesn't i am done

Noxavian

devaneiosonho wrote: »

The changing on how the vampire feeding works is not the problem in my opinion. The stupidity of getting stronger the more hungry you get came first in Oblivion and I couldn't care less about a lot of things introduced in Oblivion.

In both Daggerfall and Morrowind you do NOT get stronger when you refuse to feed. In daggerfall if you neglect your feeding, you cannot even regen your attributes. In Morrowind there is no actual "feeding" system, only a skill used to drain health, since you can't regenerate naturally, but still, no idiotic idea of getting stronger when starving.

My problem is ZOS' need to *** on my parade. Why also change how the appearance works? WHY get uglier when you're on your best? Ugh.

Uh oh @ShadowHvo @Ratzkifal you guys seeing this? It looks like even lore wise vampire feeding hasn't always been a consistent like you seem to think. Could it be that it...is able to be changed?