Zenimax will never fix the lag.

The_Snuff · February 2020

On Xbox NA I witnessed the worst lag I have seen in my 5 years of off and on playing. 40+ blues and reds pretty much standing in a moshpit of aoe’s with skills showing every 10 seconds. Nobody could die. As a yellow I stood in the middle totally unbuffed and also could not die. It’s hard to imagine this is the same game where 50+ would clash with 50+ in a open field on a scroll run and the worse thing they would experience is sound effect loss on some abilities. ESO PVP was one HELL of a drug for me and the thousands others who would wait in 1 hour queues all those nights in 2015. Ever since Imperial City dropped the game has just deteriorated into absolutely ruin, being that it was the first time we experienced major input lag in cyrodiil. Every single DLC and “expansion” has piled on to server stress that is no longer escapable in even the most remote corners of the map. Throw in the mounts and pets that get released through the crown store every month that you have to GAMBLE for. They display the most RIDICULOUS animations when you consider how game plays like it’s powered by mice on wheels.

[Snip]

TLDR: Their servers can’t handle anymore new content and animations. They probably know this and plan on going down with the ship by releasing $60 expansions until your pockets run dry as they speak of change in the future. If they were serious about improvement Greymoor wouldn’t be a thing.

[Edited for bashing]

Alienoutlaw · February 2020

should try playing on the EU server's its standard for us, but the changes coming have made improvements on the PTS so far.

Nordic__Knights · February 2020

Fortunately OP more and more see it this way now if only they'd stop feeding zos $$$ they might start hearing us again but in the last 5 years zos has only came to care about $$$ not the players

Mayrael · February 2020

Oh there used to be fun times. I have vids of it, when few dozens of not over a hundred people were enjoying meteor shower at ash mine. Nobody dies, people are singing, dancing, sky is falling.

ZOS tries to do something. I'm one of the last persons to defend them since I play PC EU, most shut down realm, but they try. They look for things that overload servers with calculations and try to get rid of them. In the end they will be forced to upgrade hardware, but without optimised code it's pointless as one bad loop can crash even best rig.

nafensoriel · February 2020

The_Snuff wrote: »

/snip

Funny. They are spending an entire year doing major code refactors to address all of this. U25 Is a huge part of this.
You also have zero understanding of how servers work or how content expansions can or cannot affect them.

/edit
@Mayrael
It has been said to the point of nausea that the problems with the game are software-based. ZOS has point blank said this.
Can we please stop the "upgrade your servers" meme?

Mayrael · February 2020

nafensoriel wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

/snip

Funny. They are spending an entire year doing major code refactors to address all of this. U25 Is a huge part of this.
You also have zero understanding of how servers work or how content expansions can or cannot affect them.

/edit
@Mayrael
It has been said to the point of nausea that the problems with the game are software-based. ZOS has point blank said this.
Can we please stop the "upgrade your servers" meme?

Did I said something wrong? When you look at NA and EU servers performance, you can see the difference, and both work on the same code. Yes EU is more populated, but since we have evidence that for lower population NA servers are more or less ok (at least they don't crash every event and randomly during weekends) increasing EU server capacity would definitely help. Why not upgrade the code and the servers?

AgaTheGreat · February 2020

This is largely a console problem. Yesterday I've experienced the worst day for lag since I remember. And I'm talking pve. I know that pvp currently is unplayable on PS4.

And we still have no comments on that from Gina.

They think it will get swept under the rug? That we'll pay for the worst gaming experience ever? No. Vote with your wallets. I know I will.

Anotherone773 · February 2020

The_Snuff wrote: »

On Xbox NA I witnessed the worst lag I have seen in my 5 years of off and on playing. 40+ blues and reds pretty much standing in a moshpit of aoe’s with skills showing every 10 seconds. Nobody could die. As a yellow I stood in the middle totally unbuffed and also could not die. It’s hard to imagine this is the same game where 50+ would clash with 50+ in a open field on a scroll run and the worse thing they would experience is sound effect loss on some abilities. ESO PVP was one HELL of a drug for me and the thousands others who would wait in 1 hour queues all those nights in 2015. Ever since Imperial City dropped the game has just deteriorated into absolutely ruin, being that it was the first time we experienced major input lag in cyrodiil. Every single DLC and “expansion” has piled on to server stress that is no longer escapable in even the most remote corners of the map. Throw in the mounts and pets that get released through the crown store every month that you have to GAMBLE for. They display the most RIDICULOUS animations when you consider how game plays like it’s powered by mice on wheels.

You are a sucker if you believe in their performance update plan, these guys have showed time and time again they prioritize swindling you out of your money over making a functional product.

TLDR: Their servers can’t handle anymore new content and animations. They probably know this and plan on going down with the ship by releasing $60 expansions until your pockets run dry as they speak of change in the future. If they were serious about improvement Greymoor wouldn’t be a thing.

If the entire game freezes/lags( including your character) then the issue is on your machine. If you can move around the game world but the game world is "frozen" then it is lag between you and the server. The only thing that the game gets from the server is the "state" of the game world. All assets are loaded and rendered on your system.

Hip_Uncle_Z · February 2020

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

This is largely a console problem. Yesterday I've experienced the worst day for lag since I remember. And I'm talking pve. I know that pvp currently is unplayable on PS4.

And we still have no comments on that from Gina.

They think it will get swept under the rug? That we'll pay for the worst gaming experience ever? No. Vote with your wallets. I know I will.

I am having the issue on PC NA, along with others in Zone chat, twitter and Facebook posts on ZOS socials this week.

It may also exist on consoles, but It's not just a console problem. I Re-Downloaded FFXIV, GW2, WoW and Destiny 2 to see if I had lag with me Gigabit.

None were above 30-45 ms.

I'll be canceling my membership if this continues.

Anotherone773 · February 2020

Mayrael wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

/snip

Funny. They are spending an entire year doing major code refactors to address all of this. U25 Is a huge part of this.
You also have zero understanding of how servers work or how content expansions can or cannot affect them.

/edit
@Mayrael
It has been said to the point of nausea that the problems with the game are software-based. ZOS has point blank said this.
Can we please stop the "upgrade your servers" meme?

Did I said something wrong? When you look at NA and EU servers performance, you can see the difference, and both work on the same code. Yes EU is more populated, but since we have evidence that for lower population NA servers are more or less ok (at least they don't crash every event and randomly during weekends) increasing EU server capacity would definitely help. Why not upgrade the code and the servers?

It might be a much larger investment than just adding a few more blades or they might be waiting to see if they can temporary put a bandaid on the problem with these performance fixes.

I think they should open a third mega server personally. Maybe in India or Korea. To take some of the pressure off the EU server. They might be doing just that and thats why they dont invest into upgrading the server. It would be a waste if they are setting up a new server for the Middle East/Asia time zones as least for a while.

You know how good ZOS is with communication and letting us know future plans. The server would be up and running for a month before they even bothered to tell us there was one.

daemonios · February 2020

nafensoriel wrote: »

@Mayrael
It has been said to the point of nausea that the problems with the game are software-based. ZOS has point blank said this.
Can we please stop the "upgrade your servers" meme?

There could be both software *and* hardware issues. In fact, I pretty much guarantee that there are. The fact that PC-EU is disproportionately affected speaks to at least part of the problem being tied to hardware capacity. Also, I'm convinced that ZOS have added increased capacity during events, then taken it away as the event ends, since I can't otherwise explain the sudden performance degradation when there are fewer people doing the event-related content. This is very apparent in Cyrodiil after Midyear Mayhem.

drakthir · February 2020

They are fixing the lag though, have you seen the server updates they are bringing?

Mayrael · February 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

/snip

Funny. They are spending an entire year doing major code refactors to address all of this. U25 Is a huge part of this.
You also have zero understanding of how servers work or how content expansions can or cannot affect them.

/edit
@Mayrael
It has been said to the point of nausea that the problems with the game are software-based. ZOS has point blank said this.
Can we please stop the "upgrade your servers" meme?

Did I said something wrong? When you look at NA and EU servers performance, you can see the difference, and both work on the same code. Yes EU is more populated, but since we have evidence that for lower population NA servers are more or less ok (at least they don't crash every event and randomly during weekends) increasing EU server capacity would definitely help. Why not upgrade the code and the servers?

It might be a much larger investment than just adding a few more blades or they might be waiting to see if they can temporary put a bandaid on the problem with these performance fixes.

I think they should open a third mega server personally. Maybe in India or Korea. To take some of the pressure off the EU server. They might be doing just that and thats why they dont invest into upgrading the server. It would be a waste if they are setting up a new server for the Middle East/Asia time zones as least for a while.

You know how good ZOS is with communication and letting us know future plans. The server would be up and running for a month before they even bothered to tell us there was one.

Yes of course it's a big investment, but when "consumption" exceeds your capabilities you have two options, cut the sales or produce more. Right now ZOS tries to sell us bad service without taking the risk of "producing" more.

I'm all in when it goes to creating server for Asia, they deserve better service to, but it won't help EU a lot. Why? Time zones. Asia peak hours don't cover with EUs, thus Asia influence on EU is marginal. It's EU population density causing problems. Most EU population is spread in 3-4 time zones, which leads to situation that there are times when almost whole EU is trying to play at the same moment. I don't know how ZOS can solve it in most economical way (maybe resources on demand, payed just for time used not regular fee) or even does their current provider allows or is able to deliver such services - but it's not my problem.

The only reason why ESO have still so many players is the game on its own. It's brilliant title, unique when it goes to MMO genre. Any other copy/paste MMO would be dead few weeks after such issues appearance.

ZOS does great job when it goes to developing this game, they really do, trust me I've seen such bulls*** tactics to drain money from players that ZOS is like an angel when compared to them. Unfortunately game performance overshadowed their great job when it goes to creating content.

Edit for typos

TheFM · February 2020

nafensoriel wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

/snip

Funny. They are spending an entire year doing major code refactors to address all of this. U25 Is a huge part of this.
You also have zero understanding of how servers work or how content expansions can or cannot affect them.

/edit
@Mayrael
It has been said to the point of nausea that the problems with the game are software-based. ZOS has point blank said this.
Can we please stop the "upgrade your servers" meme?

Well considering the memory update was a fail, cuz the game worked great for a few days and then they released a " hot fix " for something and broke it again. And ever since then it's been an absolute nightmare. It's gotten to the point that abilities aren't even registering anymore.

It actually got so bad the other day I casted a crystal frag proc , nothing happened , I continued fighting and five seconds later the crystal frag flee passed me and only then did the animation fire, but it didn't register as a hit. My surprise attacks with my magbladr flat out don't show any damage numbers and all I see is the animation. Clearly something is completely broken.

We will see how it is come the update. That will be my signal to stay or go. Because what is the point if you can't even fight effectively even during off hours.

Last night for example I was fighting someone and had them at 50% health. And BOOM loading screen mid fight. And low and behold my enemy didn't have one, and I was dead. That kind of stuff ruins the game completely.

Waynerx8 · February 2020

drakthir wrote: »

They are fixing the lag though, have you seen the server updates they are bringing?

They have been trying to do this for a long time, never will be fixed.

Fischblut · February 2020

Yesterday I went to Cyrodiil to spend remaining 50 minutes of double AP scroll on one of my characters. It was 21:00 - 22:00 on PC EU, Kaal. No event, not a weekend, not exactly prime time.

...The lag was unbelievable

I was in Cyrodiil many-many times in the past, and during this recent event too. I've seen crazy things, the lag was often really bad. But even during the event at prime time and weekend, I was kicked to login screen only couple of times (even at huge battles) during many hours. And during just an hour yesterday, I was kicked to login screen 5 times - at every large battle I participated in

The lag was outstanding. It was not just me - I saw enemies and allies around who were obviously experiencing same lag as well (teleporting around, not able to land attacks, not breaking free etc), and in zone chat people were complaining how they lag and get kicked to login screen. What's even worse - if your character gets kicked to login screen during the battle, say bye-bye to all the effort you've done in the battle, cause you can not return to that character until the said battle is over and all participants got their AP (or you wait 5 minutes for the character to time out from Cyrodiil back to PvE zone)

Meaning, you waste lot of time, can't help allies, and lose all AP you could have earned for your actions.

So after random disconnect during big battle, I can login the next second just fine. I can select any other character and load in game just fine. But if I try to load the game on the character who is in Cyrodiil during the big battle, I get error "Make sure you have valid internet connection" (and the cycle with relogs and same error continues until the battle is over and my character is loaded back to Cyrodiil base). I don't see how this will be fixed, as it's not even performance-related

It was yesterday that I've finally understood - populated Cyrodiil will never be fixed. I've already started selling and deconstructing lot of my different gear sets which I hoped to use in PvP, keeping only the most "hard to get"/expencive sets for now

The lag and diconnects make everything meaningless, and fancy gear simply lets my character live few moments longer and break free two times in a row from a single CC before dying

Kombinator · February 2020

Buy PC, good net, and move closer to the server. Seriously this is so easy, and simple, that everyone can do it at any time. It's not like any part of it costs much money. /s

Cirantille · February 2020

It is a regular day in Pc/Eu

Long_Distance · February 2020

Kombinator wrote: »

Buy PC, good net, and move closer to the server. Seriously this is so easy, and simple, that everyone can do it at any time. It's not like any part of it costs much money. /s

I saw the /s, but unfortuneatly even that won't solve the problems

I am located only abour 200k away from the server, own a kick-ass gaming PC and my i-net is ~150Mbit/s (d-load) / 10 Mbit/s (u-load). Doesn't help. Yesterday, like @Fischblut I crashed in nearly every major impact in Cyrodiil (no-cp Bahl though)

TheFM · February 2020

Long_Distance wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

Buy PC, good net, and move closer to the server. Seriously this is so easy, and simple, that everyone can do it at any time. It's not like any part of it costs much money. /s

I saw the /s, but unfortuneatly even that won't solve the problems I am located only abour 200k away from the server, own a kick-ass gaming PC and my i-net is ~150Mbit/s (d-load) / 10 Mbit/s (u-load). Doesn't help. Yesterday, like @Fischblut I crashed in nearly every major impact in Cyrodiil (no-cp Bahl though)

I can actually go to the server and knock on the door within 20 minutes xD. And whenever I do connection tests it says the problem ALWAYS originates at the server.

Kombinator · February 2020

Long_Distance wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

Buy PC, good net, and move closer to the server. Seriously this is so easy, and simple, that everyone can do it at any time. It's not like any part of it costs much money. /s

I saw the /s, but unfortuneatly even that won't solve the problems I am located only abour 200k away from the server, own a kick-ass gaming PC and my i-net is ~150Mbit/s (d-load) / 10 Mbit/s (u-load). Doesn't help. Yesterday, like @Fischblut I crashed in nearly every major impact in Cyrodiil (no-cp Bahl though)

I don't know where the server is, but my game never crashed since my great pause, and i don't remember crashing back then. So far in 2 months i only had 3 silent disconnect as an issue. Though i don't do PVP. Only world, and dungeons so far. So it could be tat Cyrodiil has some serious problem when trying to put hundreds of players together.

Danksta · February 2020

I can't even get half my skills to fire when soloing a resource on the outskirts of the map..

TheFM · February 2020

Kombinator wrote: »

Long_Distance wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

Buy PC, good net, and move closer to the server. Seriously this is so easy, and simple, that everyone can do it at any time. It's not like any part of it costs much money. /s

I saw the /s, but unfortuneatly even that won't solve the problems I am located only abour 200k away from the server, own a kick-ass gaming PC and my i-net is ~150Mbit/s (d-load) / 10 Mbit/s (u-load). Doesn't help. Yesterday, like @Fischblut I crashed in nearly every major impact in Cyrodiil (no-cp Bahl though)

I don't know where the server is, but my game never crashed since my great pause, and i don't remember crashing back then. So far in 2 months i only had 3 silent disconnect as an issue. Though i don't do PVP. Only world, and dungeons so far. So it could be tat Cyrodiil has some serious problem when trying to put hundreds of players together.

The thing is it didnt used to be like this. There has been no super huge change in graphics in cyro since the last year, but the performance has dropped through the floor.

Donny_Vito · February 2020

I imagine ESO being apart of the Game Pass subscription hasn't helped out performance on Xbox. Before it was on the Game Pass, and the millions of extras that joined for a short period, the performance was much better. Coincidence or correlation...not sure.

PrimusNephilim · February 2020

I'm in agreement, the lag will never be corrected/fixed....period.

nafensoriel · February 2020

Mayrael wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

/snip

Funny. They are spending an entire year doing major code refactors to address all of this. U25 Is a huge part of this.
You also have zero understanding of how servers work or how content expansions can or cannot affect them.

/edit
@Mayrael
It has been said to the point of nausea that the problems with the game are software-based. ZOS has point blank said this.
Can we please stop the "upgrade your servers" meme?

Did I said something wrong? When you look at NA and EU servers performance, you can see the difference, and both work on the same code. Yes EU is more populated, but since we have evidence that for lower population NA servers are more or less ok (at least they don't crash every event and randomly during weekends) increasing EU server capacity would definitely help. Why not upgrade the code and the servers?

Wrong? Yes. By simple lack of understanding of both what the problem is and what the solutions are.

As you pointed out capacity is the problem. That cant be fixed by adding hardware most of the time. In this case, we have been told it won't do anything. The software is bottlenecking the hardware. The software is being fixed. U25 is the first major step to that goal as they rewrite their game for modern methods and hardware.

You cannot just "fix" or "upgrade" the software the server and client use. That takes an absolutely absurd amount of time(as in the last year plus).

In no way shape or form will increasing EU server capacity help the problem. Adding 100 more VMs to a server doesn't do jack squat when one CPU in the stack is throttling the whole thing due to software.

Again this has been explained on these forums to nausea. Just wait for ZOS to do exactly what ZOS is doing... fixing the bloody problem at its source.

nafensoriel · February 2020

TheFM wrote: »

/snip

Responding to this one in a separate post.
The memory update was not a fail. With a basic understanding of software you can easily see that the game handles memory load considerably better than it used to.

Problem is that memory handling isn't exactly a huge performance booster visually. It helps fix other problems when you are refactoring though and eases up overhead.

As far as all the crashes you experience? When you refactor(rewrite) things you create bugs. It doesn't mean the refactor didn't do exactly what you said it did. PS4/Xbox crap tends to roll downhill longer as well due to its patch verification process.

andreasv · February 2020

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I imagine ESO being apart of the Game Pass subscription hasn't helped out performance on Xbox. Before it was on the Game Pass, and the millions of extras that joined for a short period, the performance was much better. Coincidence or correlation...not sure.

LOL

Alinhbo_Tyaka · February 2020

It isn't just consoles seeing more lag. I'm on PC NA and over the past couple of months I've noticed an uptick in lag, never ending loading screens and other performance issues. I haven't done a lot of in-depth diagnosis but what tracing I've done shows that it is not a problem with my internet connection nor my PC. The problems appear after communications get into the ZOS and their IP's networks. At this point I'm waiting to see if the upcoming update will improve things as I can't see wasting time over a problem with a major code change on the horizon.

RD065 · February 2020

I came back 2 months ago and I haven't seen any lag outside one time. Loading screens can sometimes take awhile though. PC NA.

ZOS_Volpe · February 2020

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few non-constructive and bashing comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.

Thank you for your understanding.