Sancre Tor, this is how easy the game has become.

spartaxoxo · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

You know you can always just take off everything you wear right? Even stop using abilities and remove passives?
While youre at it you can use an Essence of Ravage Health potion to put an oblivion DOT on yourself and turn the story mode into something remotely challenging

That's not my point. I am just leveling a new character and doing the quests for skill points.

My point is if new players do this quest and notice that the game is relatively easy, it might not be the best way to prepare them for vet dungeons or Cyrodiil.

They aren't supposed to be preparing for either of those things with quests. Quests are introduction to the world of eso, very basic tutorials on how skills work, and something to do until they start meeting new people and gathering resources.

The progression is now supposed to be

Quests > normal dungeons > base game vet dungeons > crag trials/dlc normal trials > vet dlc dungeons/vet crag > vet dlc trials

And

Under 50 bg/cyrodiil > imperial city, BG, cyrodiil

jaws343 · February 2020

As someone who has leveled multiple toons through questing, the gear, skill load out and the knowledge of mechanics make all of the difference.

Leveling a toon with only found gear, like a normal new player, will often leave you severely under powered for many of the main quest fights because pieces of their gear are often 10 or more levels lower. Also, that gear is rarely all the same sets and usually consists of a hodge podge of found gear from different sets.

As far as skills are concerned, these new players often don't know what skills to use or what skills work best. Unlike an experienced player who can strategically load up their leveling bars in a way that doesn't place them at a disadvantage. They are able to do so because of the experience they have gained with the game.

And the skill load out is just a part of the knowledge of mechanics. I don't believe for one second that you light attached a clanfear to death before it jumped on you and stunned you. You would have needed to block or avoid the jump. I still have to block those things on my max level DPS because there are often more than 1 at a time and they are in the air almost immediately. Experienced players will always have more skill that new players. And no, by skill I do not mean "skills." Skill, experience, understanding of the game's mechanics, things that have been learned over x+ years of playing the game and encountering those mechanics.

So to summarize, new players mostly do not have full sets of gear and are more often running with a mix of levels and set pieces. New players do not have years of knowledge over the mechanics and operations of the game. And New players do not know best how to optimize their skill bars.

The difficulty does not need to be changed. Veteran players just need to stop fully kitting their low level toons out if they want a challenge.

wsmith97ub17_ESO · February 2020

Yet I see new players getting blown up by content easier than the OP.

When you are a vet, its easy to be out of touch.

I find myself soloing a boss with no issues, thinking how easy it is, then a noob joins in to help and immediately gets floored.

Perspective

The Uninvited · February 2020

jaws343 wrote: »

As someone who has leveled multiple toons through questing, the gear, skill load out and the knowledge of mechanics make all of the difference.

Leveling a toon with only found gear, like a normal new player, will often leave you severely under powered for many of the main quest fights because pieces of their gear are often 10 or more levels lower. Also, that gear is rarely all the same sets and usually consists of a hodge podge of found gear from different sets.

As far as skills are concerned, these new players often don't know what skills to use or what skills work best. Unlike an experienced player who can strategically load up their leveling bars in a way that doesn't place them at a disadvantage. They are able to do so because of the experience they have gained with the game.

And the skill load out is just a part of the knowledge of mechanics. I don't believe for one second that you light attached a clanfear to death before it jumped on you and stunned you. You would have needed to block or avoid the jump. I still have to block those things on my max level DPS because there are often more than 1 at a time and they are in the air almost immediately. Experienced players will always have more skill that new players. And no, by skill I do not mean "skills." Skill, experience, understanding of the game's mechanics, things that have been learned over x+ years of playing the game and encountering those mechanics.

So to summarize, new players mostly do not have full sets of gear and are more often running with a mix of levels and set pieces. New players do not have years of knowledge over the mechanics and operations of the game. And New players do not know best how to optimize their skill bars.

The difficulty does not need to be changed. Veteran players just need to stop fully kitting their low level toons out if they want a challenge.

And once again, there were no mechanics whatsoever. How hard can it be to grasp that? So the only thing that made a difference was the gear/food/CP, nothing more, nothing less. I had no skills loaded out on that bar...

DMuehlhausen · February 2020

Doshia...enough said.

jaws343 · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

As someone who has leveled multiple toons through questing, the gear, skill load out and the knowledge of mechanics make all of the difference.

Leveling a toon with only found gear, like a normal new player, will often leave you severely under powered for many of the main quest fights because pieces of their gear are often 10 or more levels lower. Also, that gear is rarely all the same sets and usually consists of a hodge podge of found gear from different sets.

As far as skills are concerned, these new players often don't know what skills to use or what skills work best. Unlike an experienced player who can strategically load up their leveling bars in a way that doesn't place them at a disadvantage. They are able to do so because of the experience they have gained with the game.

And the skill load out is just a part of the knowledge of mechanics. I don't believe for one second that you light attached a clanfear to death before it jumped on you and stunned you. You would have needed to block or avoid the jump. I still have to block those things on my max level DPS because there are often more than 1 at a time and they are in the air almost immediately. Experienced players will always have more skill that new players. And no, by skill I do not mean "skills." Skill, experience, understanding of the game's mechanics, things that have been learned over x+ years of playing the game and encountering those mechanics.

So to summarize, new players mostly do not have full sets of gear and are more often running with a mix of levels and set pieces. New players do not have years of knowledge over the mechanics and operations of the game. And New players do not know best how to optimize their skill bars.

The difficulty does not need to be changed. Veteran players just need to stop fully kitting their low level toons out if they want a challenge.

And once again, there were no mechanics whatsoever. How hard can it be to grasp that? So the only thing that made a difference was the gear/food/CP, nothing more, nothing less. I had no skills loaded out on that bar...

No mechanics? So the enemies just stood there, did nothing while you attacked. No movement, nothing? If so, maybe your game is bugged. Or you are just being absurd for the sake of your argument. Or do you not know what mechanics are?

Again, go fight a group of clanfears with light attacks, not moving, and tell me how quickly you are stunned without hitting block or moving out of the way.

And again, even if what you were saying were even remotely true, your knowledge of the games mechanics make it possible for you to accomplish this. Mechanics such as: how to attack an enemy, how to wear the proper gear to boost your damage, how to position against different types of enemies who employ different types of attacks, etc.

You keep saying there are no mechanics, but you clearly don't seem to understand what mechanics are. Just because you find the mechanics easy enough to ignore doesn't mean they don't exist. It again just means that maybe the content wasn't meant for a player with years of experience in the game to struggle through.

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

For the very last time, and for everyone that is saying I went in with fully crafted gear set, food and skills...

All I did was LIGHT ATTACKS ffs!

You say that like light attacks don't do significant damage.

As you already know, your light attack damage scales of your weapon/spell damage and max stamina/magicka (depending on the weapon.) This means you already understand how to stack light attack damage, so you already know how to build into it. More than that, you chose build into it when you ate food.

You're, literally, taking (low end) vet dungeon DPS into a quest encounter and saying, "this isn't hard."

I never said that light attacks don't do significant damage. The food I ate is max health/stam recovery. I was at level 21 with level 16 gear, which I would hardly call "vet dungeon DPS".

All I am saying is, light attacks shouldn't be the only thing needed to complete a quest that was supposed to be just a tiny bit harder than the rest of overland.

So what is your plan because I'm confused. You went fairly set up even though it wasn't meta and you think the story mode stuff should be harder even though it's supposed to be on par with the base game.

I know you're not going to like this answer but you can't expect your 14th alt to have the same difficulty clearing the game as your first. Increasing the difficulty isnt going to help, finding a new game to play sometimes will help with your boredom.

And I don't expect my 14th alt to have the same difficulty clearing the game. All I expect is that at least at one moment in that quest, I would have to dodge/block/break free/kite (not all of them, just pick one or two) to just have it be a bit more engaging.

I already said before that I don't want it to be super hard on new players or over-tuned like it was at launch. And if you're still confused about my plan, I already said it in my last remark on the post you quoted.

All I am saying is, light attacks shouldn't be the only thing needed to complete a quest that was supposed to be just a tiny bit harder than the rest of overland.

So you're saying you dont expect your 14 alt to have a similar difficulty but then you immediately expect a similar difficulty. What?

If it's just a tiny bit harder then why wouldn't light attacks be all you need? Overland content is stuff you can actually walk through unless the quest requires you to kill someone. A tiny bit harder from overland is light attacks

The Uninvited · February 2020

jaws343 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

As someone who has leveled multiple toons through questing, the gear, skill load out and the knowledge of mechanics make all of the difference.

Leveling a toon with only found gear, like a normal new player, will often leave you severely under powered for many of the main quest fights because pieces of their gear are often 10 or more levels lower. Also, that gear is rarely all the same sets and usually consists of a hodge podge of found gear from different sets.

As far as skills are concerned, these new players often don't know what skills to use or what skills work best. Unlike an experienced player who can strategically load up their leveling bars in a way that doesn't place them at a disadvantage. They are able to do so because of the experience they have gained with the game.

And the skill load out is just a part of the knowledge of mechanics. I don't believe for one second that you light attached a clanfear to death before it jumped on you and stunned you. You would have needed to block or avoid the jump. I still have to block those things on my max level DPS because there are often more than 1 at a time and they are in the air almost immediately. Experienced players will always have more skill that new players. And no, by skill I do not mean "skills." Skill, experience, understanding of the game's mechanics, things that have been learned over x+ years of playing the game and encountering those mechanics.

So to summarize, new players mostly do not have full sets of gear and are more often running with a mix of levels and set pieces. New players do not have years of knowledge over the mechanics and operations of the game. And New players do not know best how to optimize their skill bars.

The difficulty does not need to be changed. Veteran players just need to stop fully kitting their low level toons out if they want a challenge.

And once again, there were no mechanics whatsoever. How hard can it be to grasp that? So the only thing that made a difference was the gear/food/CP, nothing more, nothing less. I had no skills loaded out on that bar...

No mechanics? So the enemies just stood there, did nothing while you attacked. No movement, nothing? If so, maybe your game is bugged. Or you are just being absurd for the sake of your argument. Or do you not know what mechanics are?

Again, go fight a group of clanfears with light attacks, not moving, and tell me how quickly you are stunned without hitting block or moving out of the way.

And again, even if what you were saying were even remotely true, your knowledge of the games mechanics make it possible for you to accomplish this. Mechanics such as: how to attack an enemy, how to wear the proper gear to boost your damage, how to position against different types of enemies who employ different types of attacks, etc.

You keep saying there are no mechanics, but you clearly don't seem to understand what mechanics are. Just because you find the mechanics easy enough to ignore doesn't mean they don't exist. It again just means that maybe the content wasn't meant for a player with years of experience in the game to struggle through.

The enemies moved, but that's about all they did. No mechanics that required to block/dodge/break free/kite like I said countless times before.

I know what mechanics are, that's why I mentioned other instances like Village of the Lost, where I at least had to break free or dodge a few times. But you could be right, the quest might have been bugged.

And yeah, Clanfears still stun me. But they aren't in that particular quest.

The Uninvited · February 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

For the very last time, and for everyone that is saying I went in with fully crafted gear set, food and skills...

All I did was LIGHT ATTACKS ffs!

You say that like light attacks don't do significant damage.

As you already know, your light attack damage scales of your weapon/spell damage and max stamina/magicka (depending on the weapon.) This means you already understand how to stack light attack damage, so you already know how to build into it. More than that, you chose build into it when you ate food.

You're, literally, taking (low end) vet dungeon DPS into a quest encounter and saying, "this isn't hard."

I never said that light attacks don't do significant damage. The food I ate is max health/stam recovery. I was at level 21 with level 16 gear, which I would hardly call "vet dungeon DPS".

All I am saying is, light attacks shouldn't be the only thing needed to complete a quest that was supposed to be just a tiny bit harder than the rest of overland.

So what is your plan because I'm confused. You went fairly set up even though it wasn't meta and you think the story mode stuff should be harder even though it's supposed to be on par with the base game.

I know you're not going to like this answer but you can't expect your 14th alt to have the same difficulty clearing the game as your first. Increasing the difficulty isnt going to help, finding a new game to play sometimes will help with your boredom.

And I don't expect my 14th alt to have the same difficulty clearing the game. All I expect is that at least at one moment in that quest, I would have to dodge/block/break free/kite (not all of them, just pick one or two) to just have it be a bit more engaging.

I already said before that I don't want it to be super hard on new players or over-tuned like it was at launch. And if you're still confused about my plan, I already said it in my last remark on the post you quoted.

All I am saying is, light attacks shouldn't be the only thing needed to complete a quest that was supposed to be just a tiny bit harder than the rest of overland.

So you're saying you dont expect your 14 alt to have a similar difficulty but then you immediately expect a similar difficulty. What?

If it's just a tiny bit harder then why wouldn't light attacks be all you need? Overland content is stuff you can actually walk through unless the quest requires you to kill someone. A tiny bit harder from overland is light attacks

Learn to read please, expecting something to be a bit more engaging does not equal the same difficulty as when I started.

It shouldn't be right that I can defeat the "most powerful necromancer in all of Tamriel" as if it was a mudcrab.

Elsonso · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

As someone who has leveled multiple toons through questing, the gear, skill load out and the knowledge of mechanics make all of the difference.

Leveling a toon with only found gear, like a normal new player, will often leave you severely under powered for many of the main quest fights because pieces of their gear are often 10 or more levels lower. Also, that gear is rarely all the same sets and usually consists of a hodge podge of found gear from different sets.

As far as skills are concerned, these new players often don't know what skills to use or what skills work best. Unlike an experienced player who can strategically load up their leveling bars in a way that doesn't place them at a disadvantage. They are able to do so because of the experience they have gained with the game.

And the skill load out is just a part of the knowledge of mechanics. I don't believe for one second that you light attached a clanfear to death before it jumped on you and stunned you. You would have needed to block or avoid the jump. I still have to block those things on my max level DPS because there are often more than 1 at a time and they are in the air almost immediately. Experienced players will always have more skill that new players. And no, by skill I do not mean "skills." Skill, experience, understanding of the game's mechanics, things that have been learned over x+ years of playing the game and encountering those mechanics.

So to summarize, new players mostly do not have full sets of gear and are more often running with a mix of levels and set pieces. New players do not have years of knowledge over the mechanics and operations of the game. And New players do not know best how to optimize their skill bars.

The difficulty does not need to be changed. Veteran players just need to stop fully kitting their low level toons out if they want a challenge.

And once again, there were no mechanics whatsoever. How hard can it be to grasp that? So the only thing that made a difference was the gear/food/CP, nothing more, nothing less. I had no skills loaded out on that bar...

This is a good reason for the video, by the way. Not only to demonstrate what people seem to miss, but for ZOS to look at as an example of what you are talking about.

The Uninvited · February 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

As someone who has leveled multiple toons through questing, the gear, skill load out and the knowledge of mechanics make all of the difference.

Leveling a toon with only found gear, like a normal new player, will often leave you severely under powered for many of the main quest fights because pieces of their gear are often 10 or more levels lower. Also, that gear is rarely all the same sets and usually consists of a hodge podge of found gear from different sets.

As far as skills are concerned, these new players often don't know what skills to use or what skills work best. Unlike an experienced player who can strategically load up their leveling bars in a way that doesn't place them at a disadvantage. They are able to do so because of the experience they have gained with the game.

And the skill load out is just a part of the knowledge of mechanics. I don't believe for one second that you light attached a clanfear to death before it jumped on you and stunned you. You would have needed to block or avoid the jump. I still have to block those things on my max level DPS because there are often more than 1 at a time and they are in the air almost immediately. Experienced players will always have more skill that new players. And no, by skill I do not mean "skills." Skill, experience, understanding of the game's mechanics, things that have been learned over x+ years of playing the game and encountering those mechanics.

So to summarize, new players mostly do not have full sets of gear and are more often running with a mix of levels and set pieces. New players do not have years of knowledge over the mechanics and operations of the game. And New players do not know best how to optimize their skill bars.

The difficulty does not need to be changed. Veteran players just need to stop fully kitting their low level toons out if they want a challenge.

And once again, there were no mechanics whatsoever. How hard can it be to grasp that? So the only thing that made a difference was the gear/food/CP, nothing more, nothing less. I had no skills loaded out on that bar...

This is a good reason for the video, by the way. Not only to demonstrate what people seem to miss, but for ZOS to look at as an example of what you are talking about.

I figured out by now that this was your meaning about why I should record it. If I feel like it, I will do it on the NA server as I got no CP there or other skills like crafting and so on.

starkerealm · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

As someone who has leveled multiple toons through questing, the gear, skill load out and the knowledge of mechanics make all of the difference.

Leveling a toon with only found gear, like a normal new player, will often leave you severely under powered for many of the main quest fights because pieces of their gear are often 10 or more levels lower. Also, that gear is rarely all the same sets and usually consists of a hodge podge of found gear from different sets.

As far as skills are concerned, these new players often don't know what skills to use or what skills work best. Unlike an experienced player who can strategically load up their leveling bars in a way that doesn't place them at a disadvantage. They are able to do so because of the experience they have gained with the game.

And the skill load out is just a part of the knowledge of mechanics. I don't believe for one second that you light attached a clanfear to death before it jumped on you and stunned you. You would have needed to block or avoid the jump. I still have to block those things on my max level DPS because there are often more than 1 at a time and they are in the air almost immediately. Experienced players will always have more skill that new players. And no, by skill I do not mean "skills." Skill, experience, understanding of the game's mechanics, things that have been learned over x+ years of playing the game and encountering those mechanics.

So to summarize, new players mostly do not have full sets of gear and are more often running with a mix of levels and set pieces. New players do not have years of knowledge over the mechanics and operations of the game. And New players do not know best how to optimize their skill bars.

The difficulty does not need to be changed. Veteran players just need to stop fully kitting their low level toons out if they want a challenge.

And once again, there were no mechanics whatsoever. How hard can it be to grasp that? So the only thing that made a difference was the gear/food/CP, nothing more, nothing less. I had no skills loaded out on that bar...

No mechanics? So the enemies just stood there, did nothing while you attacked. No movement, nothing? If so, maybe your game is bugged. Or you are just being absurd for the sake of your argument. Or do you not know what mechanics are?

Again, go fight a group of clanfears with light attacks, not moving, and tell me how quickly you are stunned without hitting block or moving out of the way.

And again, even if what you were saying were even remotely true, your knowledge of the games mechanics make it possible for you to accomplish this. Mechanics such as: how to attack an enemy, how to wear the proper gear to boost your damage, how to position against different types of enemies who employ different types of attacks, etc.

You keep saying there are no mechanics, but you clearly don't seem to understand what mechanics are. Just because you find the mechanics easy enough to ignore doesn't mean they don't exist. It again just means that maybe the content wasn't meant for a player with years of experience in the game to struggle through.

The enemies moved, but that's about all they did. No mechanics that required to block/dodge/break free/kite like I said countless times before.

I know what mechanics are, that's why I mentioned other instances like Village of the Lost, where I at least had to break free or dodge a few times. But you could be right, the quest might have been bugged.

And yeah, Clanfears still stun me. But they aren't in that particular quest.

There is a legitimate point mixed in here. The tutorial walks you through how to interrupt, break free, maybe even dodge roll. However, the game doesn't reinforce that. So, it is entirely possible you'll pay attention during the tutorial, but by the time you actually need to interrupt something, you'll have entirely forgotten that mechanic exists. It's not, so much, about stuff like Sancre Tor being too easy, but it also does not prepare you for content where you will need to understand those systems. Which is where you'll see CP300 Snipe Spammers wandering into vDLC dungeons. (Of course, you'll also see Skyreach babies in the group finder.)

MrGhosty · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

If I have any means to prove my point, this might be it.

I am doing the Village of the Lost public dungeon in Coldharbour right now. The bosses there pose a greater threat than Mannimarco in the main quest...

This was always true. Manimarco was level 40, Village of the Lost was either level 49 or level 50 (I forget which.) Also, back then, public dungeons were brutal. You were supposed to bring a full party into those to complete them. Village of the Lost was supposed to be harder than Manimarco, and I think the place holds up in that respect.

My point being, is that doing Village of the Lost solo now, feels like doing Sancre Tor solo back then.

You're also at a place where you can comfortably do group content alone. Some of that is power creep, but a lot of that is down to, you now know what you're doing.

There's three things to keep in mind: First: You are more powerful than you used to be. Second: You've had five years to get better as a player. Third: Manimarco was overtuned at launch. A lot of solo content was balanced around beta players who, by the end of the beta, had gotten pretty good. There were a number of choke points where players struggled in solo-only encounters. Those got tuned down over time, even before One Tamriel, and that includes Manimarco.

That content designed around a 4 man group feels like what you remember from a solo instance kinda illustrates that point.

Valid points, but I would like to make some remarks.

First: This is true, no arguing with that
Second: Again, I only used light attacks. Not just on Mannimarco, but throughout the whole quest. 5 years of experience seems a bit irrelevant in that matter.
Third: It was over-tuned at launch, but it has been tuned down too much these days.

Just wanted to add, that I rarely see new players just light attacking when it would actually be more expedient to do so. What they are using are randomly chosen skills that don't mesh and probably overlap some. I would also add that I played at launch for about a year or so then left due to lack of content. I came back about 7-8 months ago and got the new player experience all over again and the game was actually harder in quite a few areas. What I learned was that I was using skills that I thought looked cool but made very little sense, and I also was distributing my attribute points incorrectly. As I had the benefit of logging back into cp 160 toons because I did enough grinding through vet levels before leaving, I was able to bounce back quite quickly and can now tear through stuff like its nothing.

What I wouldn't mind is if they gave the option to play through the main campaign a second time and provided a hard mode that could teach you about advanced mechanics and provide the incentive to do so via increased rewards. That leaves the core experience un-touched for new comers, but gives everyone else more content.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

TequilaFire wrote: »

BTW -What would be your solution?

My solution would be to recognise that zos has deliberately made these quests finishable by every player in the game, as they are part of the main story, and to not be so amazingly self-absorbed that I keep demanding a game company cater their game to my specific needs.

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

For the very last time, and for everyone that is saying I went in with fully crafted gear set, food and skills...

All I did was LIGHT ATTACKS ffs!

You say that like light attacks don't do significant damage.

As you already know, your light attack damage scales of your weapon/spell damage and max stamina/magicka (depending on the weapon.) This means you already understand how to stack light attack damage, so you already know how to build into it. More than that, you chose build into it when you ate food.

You're, literally, taking (low end) vet dungeon DPS into a quest encounter and saying, "this isn't hard."

I never said that light attacks don't do significant damage. The food I ate is max health/stam recovery. I was at level 21 with level 16 gear, which I would hardly call "vet dungeon DPS".

All I am saying is, light attacks shouldn't be the only thing needed to complete a quest that was supposed to be just a tiny bit harder than the rest of overland.

So what is your plan because I'm confused. You went fairly set up even though it wasn't meta and you think the story mode stuff should be harder even though it's supposed to be on par with the base game.

I know you're not going to like this answer but you can't expect your 14th alt to have the same difficulty clearing the game as your first. Increasing the difficulty isnt going to help, finding a new game to play sometimes will help with your boredom.

And I don't expect my 14th alt to have the same difficulty clearing the game. All I expect is that at least at one moment in that quest, I would have to dodge/block/break free/kite (not all of them, just pick one or two) to just have it be a bit more engaging.

I already said before that I don't want it to be super hard on new players or over-tuned like it was at launch. And if you're still confused about my plan, I already said it in my last remark on the post you quoted.

All I am saying is, light attacks shouldn't be the only thing needed to complete a quest that was supposed to be just a tiny bit harder than the rest of overland.

So you're saying you dont expect your 14 alt to have a similar difficulty but then you immediately expect a similar difficulty. What?

If it's just a tiny bit harder then why wouldn't light attacks be all you need? Overland content is stuff you can actually walk through unless the quest requires you to kill someone. A tiny bit harder from overland is light attacks

Learn to read please, expecting something to be a bit more engaging does not equal the same difficulty as when I started.

It shouldn't be right that I can defeat the "most powerful necromancer in all of Tamriel" as if it was a mudcrab.

I can obviously read, that might be your deficency not mine.

I don't think you understand that your level of engagement and expectations will never exceed the first playthrough. It's the same level of engagement it always was at but you're much more experienced in the game.

It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's the story and it's meant to be easy like that to get the max amount of people through it. You shouldn't be able to nuke down a Daedric prince either but you do.

xaraan · February 2020

Been playing this game since launch, doing all the quests and the only time any of the fights were every scary was fighting Manimarco and the portals that summon ghosts bugged out and just poured out a steady stream of hundreds of ghosts during the entire fight.

FierceSam · February 2020

TequilaFire wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

What I suggested is completely technically possible since these quests are solo instances.

This is technically correct, however, it doesn't address the problem that it was meant to solve, at all.

The problem with your solution is: CP =! Player Skill.

And you keep ignoring the fact I keep saying of course you can't calculate skill.
But as it is it takes very little skill to do these quests in the first place.
And that is the problem.
BTW -What would be your solution?

My solution would be, There is no need for a solution.

Quest content is deliberately pitched at the least able player level. It’s not about ‘The most difficult challenge in the game’, it’s about a fun, engaging story with a bit of action.

I mean I am loving the idea that as a new player fresh out of my 2 minute, 3 light attack tutorial, I should go to game college and get some kind of Community Arsehat Certification before I am able to enjoy the content I’ve just purchased. I’m laughing at the notion that you think there are any new players who don’t spend the first months in ESO spamming light attacks way too fast to actually be effective with a bonus random skill thrown in every so often because it looks cool.

There is no need for a solution because questing is the the very beginning of every player’s journey in ESO. If you want a challenge, there are plenty of other areas in game for that, most of which also have their own storylines. Choose them instead. Choose a delve, a World Boss, a public dungeon, an actual dungeon or a DLC dungeon. Pretty much all of them will be more of a challenge than any questboss.

You’re a college student complaining that primary school is too easy and the chairs are too small.

TequilaFire · February 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

BTW -What would be your solution?

My solution would be to recognise that zos has deliberately made these quests finishable by every player in the game, as they are part of the main story, and to not be so amazingly self-absorbed that I keep demanding a game company cater their game to my specific needs.

Great snarky answer as usual, but you ignore the fact that scaling would not impede new players or anyone else.

EmEm_Oh · February 2020

idk wrote: »

I started this game in March 2014 and completed the main quest line twice in less than 2 months time. I never found Sancre Tor scary and I was doing the quests as soon I could so I was at level.

I am not suggesting things have not gotten easier. The power creep in this game has been very real with nothing to reset it.

Play naked.

The Uninvited · February 2020

As some people still don't seem to understand what I am trying to say here, maybe this explains it better.

The blue line is where the difficulty is at right now, the red line is where I would like it to be. Not unable to complete by a new player, not overwhelmingly challenging, just a tiny bit more engaging.

jaws343 · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

As some people still don't seem to understand what I am trying to say here, maybe this explains it better.

The blue line is where the difficulty is at right now, the red line is where I would like it to be. Not unable to complete by a new player, not overwhelmingly challenging, just a tiny bit more engaging.

But you are failing to take into account that new players often still struggle with these quests. How many times do people have to repeat "Just because you, a veteran player with years of experience, can easily complete content doesn't mean your success is magically transposed onto new players." We get it, you are great at this game with your excellent light attacks and frozen enemies who just do not seem to hit you. You are not the intended target of the difficulty of these quests.

mav1234 · February 2020

I was a new player in 2016 and I struggled with the main quests and some of the big zone quests. I didn't know how to play at all, barely knew how to dodge roll or block etc. I had no CP, and I didn't realize the power of crafting sets so I never asked anyone to make them for me - I made them myself, but they were usually weak, and green or blue (I only had 2-3 traits at the time).

Now I blow through everything with CP and crafted sets. When Elsewyr came out, I leveled my necro without crafted sets or CP and there was some challenge in some public dungeons, but nothing like what I remember when I started. And yet, the game hasn't changed in balance - I just have gained more skill.

I would like some slight difficulty increase in the overland / story quests, honestly, but I think it would be best done in a scaling manner such that new players do not struggle even more with it. Not sure how to implement that.

The Uninvited · February 2020

jaws343 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

As some people still don't seem to understand what I am trying to say here, maybe this explains it better.

The blue line is where the difficulty is at right now, the red line is where I would like it to be. Not unable to complete by a new player, not overwhelmingly challenging, just a tiny bit more engaging.

But you are failing to take into account that new players often still struggle with these quests. How many times do people have to repeat "Just because you, a veteran player with years of experience, can easily complete content doesn't mean your success is magically transposed onto new players." We get it, you are great at this game with your excellent light attacks and frozen enemies who just do not seem to hit you. You are not the intended target of the difficulty of these quests.

And you are failing to take into account that experience does not matter if only light attacks are used, and that "frozen enemies who just do not seem to hit you" has nothing to do with being experienced or new. More likely that it's a bug.

Look at where I put the difference, between regular overland and public dungeons. Can you honestly tell me that it would be impossible for new players to complete that? Give me a break...

mystkldrgnb14_ESO · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

You know you can always just take off everything you wear right? Even stop using abilities and remove passives?
While youre at it you can use an Essence of Ravage Health potion to put an oblivion DOT on yourself and turn the story mode into something remotely challenging

That's not my point. I am just leveling a new character and doing the quests for skill points.

My point is if new players do this quest and notice that the game is relatively easy, it might not be the best way to prepare them for vet dungeons or Cyrodiil.

The PVE Solo game IS easy. Not just that quest. The whole of it.

None of that has to do with Cyrodiil or Vet Dungeons, ease or difficulty.

If you haven't figured out there's a skill/power difference between pve solo play and vet dungeons by the time you get to that point - that's on the player, not the game.

There is nothing in any of the PVE questing overland (because its all meant to be done solo) that "warns" you anything about Cyrodiil or Vet Dungeons. Esp. since Cyrodiil, from the day it was created, is an entirely different zone from everything else in game. And nothing in the game prepares you for THAT change either - you either read about it offline or you learn it on yoru own.

But to say a single quest should be better than this - is ignoring the reality of the entire game. *shrugs*

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

As some people still don't seem to understand what I am trying to say here, maybe this explains it better.

The blue line is where the difficulty is at right now, the red line is where I would like it to be. Not unable to complete by a new player, not overwhelmingly challenging, just a tiny bit more engaging.

I think you're the only one misunderstanding. The story quest is part of overland it is as difficult as it should be and nothing about it has changed. The same goes for guild quests. They are meant to be accessible to everyone. You're mad that the final quest is easy and your comparison for it is quests that are designed to be so easy you can clear them without any attacks.

SpaceElf · February 2020

xaraan wrote: »

Been playing this game since launch, doing all the quests and the only time any of the fights were every scary was fighting Manimarco and the portals that summon ghosts bugged out and just poured out a steady stream of hundreds of ghosts during the entire fight.

The mental image I just conjured up made me giggle. Sounds amazing - I hope you got a screenshot.

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

As some people still don't seem to understand what I am trying to say here, maybe this explains it better.

The blue line is where the difficulty is at right now, the red line is where I would like it to be. Not unable to complete by a new player, not overwhelmingly challenging, just a tiny bit more engaging.

But you are failing to take into account that new players often still struggle with these quests. How many times do people have to repeat "Just because you, a veteran player with years of experience, can easily complete content doesn't mean your success is magically transposed onto new players." We get it, you are great at this game with your excellent light attacks and frozen enemies who just do not seem to hit you. You are not the intended target of the difficulty of these quests.

And you are failing to take into account that experience does not matter if only light attacks are used, and that "frozen enemies who just do not seem to hit you" has nothing to do with being experienced or new. More likely that it's a bug.

Look at where I put the difference, between regular overland and public dungeons. Can you honestly tell me that it would be impossible for new players to complete that? Give me a break...

But this isn't about new players. This is about you, a very experienced player not understanding that your experience is what is making it easy.

Can you honestly say making the quest take longer is going to maximize the experience of new players? It isn't. Adding a stun or break free moment (your suggestion) isnt going to increase the difficulty either.

I'm also looking at your graph and the idea that you think vet dungeons are easier to clear than normal trials is absurd.

Your categories should be overland (which includes story/guild quests), delves, public dungeons, World Bosses, normal dungeons, normal trials, vet dungeons, vet trials.

The Uninvited · February 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

As some people still don't seem to understand what I am trying to say here, maybe this explains it better.

The blue line is where the difficulty is at right now, the red line is where I would like it to be. Not unable to complete by a new player, not overwhelmingly challenging, just a tiny bit more engaging.

But you are failing to take into account that new players often still struggle with these quests. How many times do people have to repeat "Just because you, a veteran player with years of experience, can easily complete content doesn't mean your success is magically transposed onto new players." We get it, you are great at this game with your excellent light attacks and frozen enemies who just do not seem to hit you. You are not the intended target of the difficulty of these quests.

And you are failing to take into account that experience does not matter if only light attacks are used, and that "frozen enemies who just do not seem to hit you" has nothing to do with being experienced or new. More likely that it's a bug.

Look at where I put the difference, between regular overland and public dungeons. Can you honestly tell me that it would be impossible for new players to complete that? Give me a break...

But this isn't about new players. This is about you, a very experienced player not understanding that your experience is what is making it easy.

Can you honestly say making the quest take longer is going to maximize the experience of new players? It isn't. Adding a stun or break free moment (your suggestion) isnt going to increase the difficulty either.

I'm also looking at your graph and the idea that you think vet dungeons are easier to clear than normal trials is absurd.

Your categories should be overland (which includes story/guild quests), delves, public dungeons, World Bosses, normal dungeons, normal trials, vet dungeons, vet trials.

I put those in just for comparison in relation to what I was trying to make clear. I was thinking of putting in an explanation as I was afraid that comment might come up, but I thought it wasn't needed. Apparently, I was wrong.

TequilaFire · February 2020

I guess it was a miracle that a lot of us when we were new players before the serious dumb down of the game made it through content.

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

The Uninvited wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

As some people still don't seem to understand what I am trying to say here, maybe this explains it better.

The blue line is where the difficulty is at right now, the red line is where I would like it to be. Not unable to complete by a new player, not overwhelmingly challenging, just a tiny bit more engaging.

But you are failing to take into account that new players often still struggle with these quests. How many times do people have to repeat "Just because you, a veteran player with years of experience, can easily complete content doesn't mean your success is magically transposed onto new players." We get it, you are great at this game with your excellent light attacks and frozen enemies who just do not seem to hit you. You are not the intended target of the difficulty of these quests.

And you are failing to take into account that experience does not matter if only light attacks are used, and that "frozen enemies who just do not seem to hit you" has nothing to do with being experienced or new. More likely that it's a bug.

Look at where I put the difference, between regular overland and public dungeons. Can you honestly tell me that it would be impossible for new players to complete that? Give me a break...

But this isn't about new players. This is about you, a very experienced player not understanding that your experience is what is making it easy.

Can you honestly say making the quest take longer is going to maximize the experience of new players? It isn't. Adding a stun or break free moment (your suggestion) isnt going to increase the difficulty either.

I'm also looking at your graph and the idea that you think vet dungeons are easier to clear than normal trials is absurd.

Your categories should be overland (which includes story/guild quests), delves, public dungeons, World Bosses, normal dungeons, normal trials, vet dungeons, vet trials.

I put those in just for comparison in relation to what I was trying to make clear. I was thinking of putting in an explanation as I was afraid that comment might come up, but I thought it wasn't needed. Apparently, I was wrong.

And you still didnt give an explanation of why you think a normal trial is more difficult than veteran trial. Just putting them in for comparison isn't really a reason to just include then especially when your point is about experienced player difficulty.