Should the changes to Ice Heart be Reverted?

satanio · February 2020

Yes

Asardes wrote: »

Casting what is basically your standard [skill] every [period of time] with no cost and doing some [thing on top] was simply out of line with other 2p sets.

Invalid point -> Chudan? Thorvukuun? Skorya?
You can't justify this nerf. This is done just to promote new monster set.

Nevasca · February 2020

Yes

ZOS as usual is completely destroying a overtuned set instead of balancing. Dude the shield nerf is fine, but doubling the cooldown is just completely ***. What were you thinking devs? Seriously?

Asardes · February 2020

No

satanio wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Casting what is basically your standard [skill] every [period of time] with no cost and doing some [thing on top] was simply out of line with other 2p sets.

Invalid point -> Chudan? Thorvukuun? Skorya?
You can't justify this nerf. This is done just to promote new monster set.

Those sets give you a Major buff, two minor debuffs (AoE), and a predictible proc with a telegraph respectively. I do agree that Chudan is quite overloaded and the bonuses should be decreased. Either change Major to Minor Resolve, or eliminate either the health or armor bonus from it.

satanio · February 2020

Yes

Asardes wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Casting what is basically your standard [skill] every [period of time] with no cost and doing some [thing on top] was simply out of line with other 2p sets.

Invalid point -> Chudan? Thorvukuun? Skorya?
You can't justify this nerf. This is done just to promote new monster set.

Those sets give you a Major buff, two minor debuffs (AoE), and a predictible proc with a telegraph respectively. I do agree that Chudan is quite overloaded and the bonuses should be decreased. Either change Major to Minor Resolve, or eliminate either the health or armor bonus from it.

@Asardes - Imagine those nerfs and 50% less uptime on top of that on those sets. And that's what happened to Icehearth... now do you understand? It is overnerfed.
Revert immediately!

Ashfen · February 2020

Yes

Reaction when seeing the nerf :

Altyrann · February 2020

Yes

I think the other thread says it all. A change unwanted and unneeded.

UntilValhalla13 · February 2020

Yes

The new set is not going to be used AT ALL, regardless, because of what's needed to get it to activate. There's, what, 3 channeled abilities in the ENTIRE game, give or take? 2 of them are on a templar.

I don't understand why it's literally so hard for them to think of a new, unique effect that would actually be worth bothering with. At the very least, change the proc conditions to something that players will actually do, instead of it just being yet another meme.

Chances are, if you're Jesus Beaming something in difficult content or progression, you've got a healer keeping you alive to begin with. You don't need a monster set to only decide to work when an enemy is in execute range, because you're probably not going to be channeling anything else otherwise.

Stevie6 · February 2020

Yes

It was very hard to get in the first place why nerf it now? It will end up as another monster set sitting on the side lines for the next several years not being used. The devs should actually increase the damage shield instead of nerfing it. Also, it brings up an interesting point. Why pick on a very small number of people that use it in vet trials and vma? I've used it in vma and died with it on. Still on stage 7 and it has been several months now...still no luck in vma..and the DEVS want to nerf it?

That really gives incentive to new players and those that are trying harder content. LOL What are they going to do when people start obtaining Zaans..nerf it as well? Every class damage shield has been nerfed into oblivian. Always remember this DEVS, we are the player base that support you with buying crowns, paying for ESO PlUS, etc. and that income can dry up really fast. Why pay for Elder Scrolls Nerf Online?

Mayrael · February 2020

Yes

Typical ZOS, a slightly overtuned set?

Kadoin · February 2020

Yes

In order for the set to even be useful you had to invest in crit (or have a large amount of targets), which automatically meant either less sustain, damage reduction, and/or damage. Not to mention there are other, better damage reduction sources out there in the first place.

I've only used the set on low hp builds that either did not have the hp to run skill-based shields or ran enough resistance to make casting a shield beneficial over ice-heart's proc and crit healing.

Well guess its time to stack a massive amount of resistance and damage reduction like everyone else in PvP. I'm sure that is what the goal was...

ESO_Nightingale · February 2020

Yes

#SaveIceheart!

snoozy · February 2020

Yes

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Not sure what was expected in a poll like this. Maybe try a poll that ask about reverting all nerfs handed down over the past year.

i wanted a visual aid to help get the point across about how angry players are with the change, a picture speaks a 1000 words and all thats and faster than actually reading the what will be 1000's of comments

@Alienoutlaw i agree the visual and numbers are very helpful. i think it would be even better to recreate this poll in general discussion since not everyone checks the PTS discussions.

let's show zos we won't accept this change.
#SaveIceheart

Nyladreas · February 2020

No

No cause it ain't happening lmao.

Karmanorway · February 2020

No

No, my magden will start crying If this happens 😬 PS. Meant yes, i dont want it nerfed lol

snoozy · February 2020

Yes

Karmanorway wrote: »

No, my magden will start crying If this happens 😬 PS. Meant yes, i dont want it nerfed lol

same for my frost magden... i wish they would let us change our choice on the poll

code65536 · February 2020

Yes

Asardes wrote: »

for example Combat Physician vs. Prayer Shawl [...] All were and will be niche sets.

Combat Physician and Prayer Shawl are trash sets. Trash sets are never desirable, regardless of the situation. Niche sets are desirable under certain situations.

Those sets you mention are not niche sets. They are trash sets that nobody in their right mind would use in any situation. Tuning Iceheart to be in line with trash sets like Combat Physician, Prayer Shawl, Brands of the Imperium, or Lunar Bastion means it too becomes a trash set that nobody would use.

Olupajmibanan · February 2020

Yes

snoozy wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Not sure what was expected in a poll like this. Maybe try a poll that ask about reverting all nerfs handed down over the past year.

i wanted a visual aid to help get the point across about how angry players are with the change, a picture speaks a 1000 words and all thats and faster than actually reading the what will be 1000's of comments

@Alienoutlaw i agree the visual and numbers are very helpful. i think it would be even better to recreate this poll in general discussion since not everyone checks the PTS discussions.

let's show zos we won't accept this change.
#SaveIceheart

If you look at General Discussion, Iceheart threads are being shut down immediately by ZoS. It's obvious they are feared of massive riot.

snoozy · February 2020

Yes

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Not sure what was expected in a poll like this. Maybe try a poll that ask about reverting all nerfs handed down over the past year.

i wanted a visual aid to help get the point across about how angry players are with the change, a picture speaks a 1000 words and all thats and faster than actually reading the what will be 1000's of comments

@Alienoutlaw i agree the visual and numbers are very helpful. i think it would be even better to recreate this poll in general discussion since not everyone checks the PTS discussions.

let's show zos we won't accept this change.
#SaveIceheart

If you look at General Discussion, Iceheart threads are being shut down immediately by ZoS. It's obvious they are feared of massive riot.

not yet. two of them still open... one was shut down.
we won't back down.

Nirntrotter · February 2020

Yes

Newsflash: A nerfed Ice Heart doesn't magically make Mother Can'tcompete a desirable set, it just means that you now have two less desirable sets.

Faulgor · February 2020

Yes

Asardes wrote: »

Mother Ciannait will be balanced now with Iceheart - half the shield, but with higher up time. It's similar to the balance between other sets that grant a shield, for example Combat Physician vs. Prayer Shawl - a bigger shield on a single target vs. a smaller shield on multiple targets. All were and will be niche sets.

Combat Physician is single target, yes. It procs on crits, provides an 8k+ shield and can have 100% uptime.

So, exactly like Ice Heart.

Carsinomus · February 2020

Yes

Faulgor wrote: »

Combat Physician is single target, yes. It procs on crits, provides an 8k+ shield and can have 100% uptime.

So, exactly like Ice Heart.

So, prepare for Combat Physician nerf...

Fur_like_snow · February 2020

Yes

I have a really bad feeling that BS is next. 😬

Asardes · February 2020

No

Faulgor wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Mother Ciannait will be balanced now with Iceheart - half the shield, but with higher up time. It's similar to the balance between other sets that grant a shield, for example Combat Physician vs. Prayer Shawl - a bigger shield on a single target vs. a smaller shield on multiple targets. All were and will be niche sets.

Combat Physician is single target, yes. It procs on crits, provides an 8k+ shield and can have 100% uptime.

So, exactly like Ice Heart.

Well the opportunity costs are different, Combat Physician is a 5p set, Iceheart is a 2p set, so it's normal the bonus, or whatever proc the former has for the last piece scales accordingly. And I've heard some reliable people using Combat Phyisician in PvP, even for some dungeon runs it's a perfectly viable set. The shield is bigger than current Iceheart, 9.5K vs. 8.6K, same cooldown and duration. https://eso-sets.com/set/combat-physician

Xvorg · February 2020

Yes

deflorate wrote: »

It still does the same thing, jesus christ.

12 secs CD is just overnerfing a set.

A set that has 20% chance to proc on a crit

Can't you get it? that CD could be in reality over 15 secs.

Xvorg · February 2020

Yes

Asardes wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Casting what is basically your standard [skill] every [period of time] with no cost and doing some [thing on top] was simply out of line with other 2p sets.

Invalid point -> Chudan? Thorvukuun? Skorya?
You can't justify this nerf. This is done just to promote new monster set.

Those sets give you a Major buff, two minor debuffs (AoE), and a predictible proc with a telegraph respectively. I do agree that Chudan is quite overloaded and the bonuses should be decreased. Either change Major to Minor Resolve, or eliminate either the health or armor bonus from it.

The proc condition of IH are stupid. 6 secs cd on a set that has a 20% chance on a crit is more than OK.

Skoria has 8% chance on a DoT

So if you want to be carried by IH you must build towards crit chance so you can proc it immediately after the effect ended. It is pointless to try to do it on heavy armor because the proc will not be reliable, you can't build enough crit chance on heavy unless you sacrifice one slot on magelight, and even with that, it will not be enough.

edit: Even the extra lolled Combat Physician has an easier proc and a better shield.

Alienoutlaw · February 2020

Yes

IC is not a carry set unless you are running with high level players who damage for you, its a training set that allows you to make mistakes whilst learning new content, it does not stop you from getting killed if anything it makes it harder due to the massive sacrifice in dps needed to run it

akdave0 · February 2020

Yes

Solo pug pve healer dungeon runner here, don’t let this go live.

Asardes · February 2020

No

Xvorg wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Casting what is basically your standard [skill] every [period of time] with no cost and doing some [thing on top] was simply out of line with other 2p sets.

Invalid point -> Chudan? Thorvukuun? Skorya?
You can't justify this nerf. This is done just to promote new monster set.

Those sets give you a Major buff, two minor debuffs (AoE), and a predictible proc with a telegraph respectively. I do agree that Chudan is quite overloaded and the bonuses should be decreased. Either change Major to Minor Resolve, or eliminate either the health or armor bonus from it.

The proc condition of IH are stupid. 6 secs cd on a set that has a 20% chance on a crit is more than OK.

Skoria has 8% chance on a DoT

So if you want to be carried by IH you must build towards crit chance so you can proc it immediately after the effect ended. It is pointless to try to do it on heavy armor because the proc will not be reliable, you can't build enough crit chance on heavy unless you sacrifice one slot on magelight, and even with that, it will not be enough.

edit: Even the extra lolled Combat Physician has an easier proc and a better shield.

Actually I have Ice Heart on a tank I made just for laughs, the only instance I used the set. And even with just Blockade, Winter's Revenge and LA/HA weave it's up about 50-60%. Each DoT has ticks, and any tick has a chance to crit, so if you run enough DoTs, and weave or hit with skills with multiple components (ex. Force Pulse) that crit individually, you will keep it up quite a lot, probably over 70% on a DD build. Of course, in PvP you have much less DoTs and much more direct damage, so unless you're using Force Pulse/Crushing Shock the up time will be less. On the other hand you can proc Skoria basically when it's off cooldown, if you run 3-4 DoTs, I have it on many PvE builds, and also a few PvP ones and it procs like clockwork even if mathematically the proc rate is low.

Alienoutlaw · February 2020

Yes

Asardes wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

satanio wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Casting what is basically your standard [skill] every [period of time] with no cost and doing some [thing on top] was simply out of line with other 2p sets.

Invalid point -> Chudan? Thorvukuun? Skorya?
You can't justify this nerf. This is done just to promote new monster set.

Those sets give you a Major buff, two minor debuffs (AoE), and a predictible proc with a telegraph respectively. I do agree that Chudan is quite overloaded and the bonuses should be decreased. Either change Major to Minor Resolve, or eliminate either the health or armor bonus from it.

The proc condition of IH are stupid. 6 secs cd on a set that has a 20% chance on a crit is more than OK.

Skoria has 8% chance on a DoT

So if you want to be carried by IH you must build towards crit chance so you can proc it immediately after the effect ended. It is pointless to try to do it on heavy armor because the proc will not be reliable, you can't build enough crit chance on heavy unless you sacrifice one slot on magelight, and even with that, it will not be enough.

edit: Even the extra lolled Combat Physician has an easier proc and a better shield.

Actually I have Ice Heart on a tank I made just for laughs, the only instance I used the set. And even with just Blockade, Winter's Revenge and LA/HA weave it's up about 50-60%. Each DoT has ticks, and any tick has a chance to crit, so if you run enough DoTs, and weave or hit with skills with multiple components (ex. Force Pulse) that crit individually, you will keep it up quite a lot, probably over 70% on a DD build. Of course, in PvP you have much less DoTs and much more direct damage, so unless you're using Force Pulse/Crushing Shock the up time will be less. On the other hand you can proc Skoria basically when it's off cooldown, if you run 3-4 DoTs, I have it on many PvE builds, and also a few PvP ones and it procs like clockwork even if mathematically the proc rate is low.

how many other defensive MONSTER sets have a 12sec cool down?

themaddaedra · February 2020

No

I have investigated many Immortal Redeemer and Gryphon Heart logs and parses with Iceheart, and the result is it absorbs from %40(really bad procs) to %50(really good procs) of incoming damage.

That saves you from total reFardation. You could use Iceheart and take a shower in meteor storm and still live. Set was broken OP, this is a fact. And it's not like they nerfed it by a very large margin, no need to revert anything.

If anything, they could reduce the cooldown to like... 8-9 seconds? 12 seems bit off the rail. That's all.