As many countries are debating lootbox legality, how about getting rid of or replacing Crown Crates?

Maxx7410 · January 2020

stupids goverments nothing more they will make rules how to use the bathroom haha crown crates are not gambling i dont like the time Zos dedicate for them but they are not gambling

Coppes · January 2020

RGD wrote: »

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I think you’re a very holier-than-thou person from the thread and your posts.

You always speak about morality, calling us immoral for wanting adults to take responsibility for their actions; not blame them on companies.

We’ve stated our point clearly, and every time we counter something you say the same thing again and again. Copy and pasting the same things over and over.

Then you’ll start with the insults (i.e You’re disgusting! You’re immoral!). You over express your words too (i.e EXACTLY, IMMORAL).

You’re clearly incapable of seeing even a fraction of our point because you’re being blinded by your ‘holiness’.

You’re getting a bit to emotional in this debate.

My favourite part about your post is this: "wanting adults to take responsibility for their actions; not blame them on companies."

So companies aren't supposed to have responsibilities over their own actions? you're telling me they have no choice in what kinds of monetisation they implement, they're just automatically driven to loot boxes? (This is purely rhetorical, No, they aren't.)

Your point that "adults should take responsibility for their actions" - while at it's core is an ideal, it's not the case for everyone. And by that same token, companies should take responsibilities to be consumer friendly, and implement less predatory and more transparent monetisation into their games. Loot Boxes are highly controversial, many people disagree and have a distaste for their implementation because of their exploitative nature. Know what's a hell of a lot less controversial? selling things for an up-front price with no chance of not receiving what you pay for. I wonder why.

Taking away crown crates will not destroy your experience on ESO. If you like gambling, go to a casino or get a lottery ticket, go to a betting shop, play a sports game. There's plenty of places for you to get your dopamine fix, and lose your (presumably) hard-earned money at the same time.

Your first point makes no sense? They chose that method of monetization because it was profitable to them. Newsflash: Companies are made for money.

If ZoS was a gambling intervention company and they had lootboxes as well. Then I would be sympathetic to your cause.

However, they are not that. They’re a video game company.

“And companies should be responsible for their consumers” is just another way of saying that companies should heed to my problems because I don’t want to.

I don’t like casinos, comparing Crown Crates != Casino

Unlike in Casinos, you are always guaranteed 4 or more items. The rarity of the based into the pricing.

The low 400 crown price tag is based on the lowest reward you can get. (Comparing it to the cost of Supplies in the Crown Store) You’re not getting what you want but you are getting something at basically equal value.

Hallothiel · January 2020

Those of you who like the crates haven’t really answered the question as to why the crates are necessary, and why items cant just be sold in the Crown store.

Elsonso · February 2020

Hallothiel wrote: »

Those of you who like the crates haven’t really answered the question as to why the crates are necessary, and why items cant just be sold in the Crown store.

I think the #1 reason is that Pacrooti would be out of a job and his 12 kids would starve.

Iccotak · February 2020

Spent $100 on crown crates - look what that got him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLxTxh6l8eI

Started back 3 years ago and now almost every new item goes to the Crates - so the crown store gets even less than it used to. Most of the good stuff is in the crown crates, most of the store hasn't been updated in years. The Blood-Forge skin is still there - any new $$ skins are in the crates.

Sure you get a chance at items same as everyone else but your shot at the good stuff is so low that it makes the cost of getting one so unappealing.
There's a reason that states & countries are talking about banning lootbox systems from games because they have found it so overwhelmingly not consumer friendly.

I bought $40 worth of crown crates from the limited time Scalecaller boxes - did not get a single mount. Got a couple motifs and cosmetic items which was neat but I mostly got a bunch of useless consumables that I could have just bought from the store itself.
This makes me want to spend less - not more.

iiYuki · February 2020

Royaji wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

If it were up to me the entire crown store would go and the only thing sold would be services like character rename, appearance and race change and DLC.
I find it pretty sad its taken 5 years to finally tag a mount to an achievement you earn from actually playing content (imaging that actually earning something in this game that can't just be bought on the store). The best we can hope for is them getting rid of scam-crates and just letting people buy what they want for crowns.

And your plan to replace the lost revenue (and keep on growing) to keep your employer (i.e. shareholders or a private owner in case of ESO) happy and prevent them from firing you and hiring someone else is...?

Micro-transactions and gambling mechanics are a new concept, how did games like WoW, Runescape, Ultima Online and so on survive without them? By selling the game, subscriptions (optional or required) and expansion packs.
There are plenty of games that simply made revenue off of selling the game and then selling expansion packs, as an mmo its more expensive and harder to maintain than a traditional multiplayer game I would have though but I still dont think we need a cash store that rivals most free to play games' with overpriced weekly reskins, scam crates with mounts that have less than a 0.1% chance to drop and all these stupid artificial scarcity "time limited" items.
They aren't relying on sales of gamble crates and recolored horses to keep the game going, its purely for profit. The game would survive fine without it.

Coppes · February 2020

iiYuki wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

If it were up to me the entire crown store would go and the only thing sold would be services like character rename, appearance and race change and DLC.
I find it pretty sad its taken 5 years to finally tag a mount to an achievement you earn from actually playing content (imaging that actually earning something in this game that can't just be bought on the store). The best we can hope for is them getting rid of scam-crates and just letting people buy what they want for crowns.

And your plan to replace the lost revenue (and keep on growing) to keep your employer (i.e. shareholders or a private owner in case of ESO) happy and prevent them from firing you and hiring someone else is...?

Micro-transactions and gambling mechanics are a new concept, how did games like WoW, Runescape, Ultima Online and so on survive without them? By selling the game, subscriptions (optional or required) and expansion packs.
There are plenty of games that simply made revenue off of selling the game and then selling expansion packs, as an mmo its more expensive and harder to maintain than a traditional multiplayer game I would have though but I still dont think we need a cash store that rivals most free to play games' with overpriced weekly reskins, scam crates with mounts that have less than a 0.1% chance to drop and all these stupid artificial scarcity "time limited" items.
They aren't relying on sales of gamble crates and recolored horses to keep the game going, its purely for profit. The game would survive fine without it.

They survived so long because of the fact that they were extremely popular in their age.

WoW was/is exclusively subscription based + popularity = lots of spare money.

WoW would have been dead by now if it wasn’t for nostalgia.

But we aren’t talking about WoW right now, it’s ESO.

Iccotak · February 2020

$150 of crown crates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaDdRLVUohg

+100 crates. Got 1 Apex reward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOAaFnmzF7g

Royaji · February 2020

iiYuki wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

If it were up to me the entire crown store would go and the only thing sold would be services like character rename, appearance and race change and DLC.
I find it pretty sad its taken 5 years to finally tag a mount to an achievement you earn from actually playing content (imaging that actually earning something in this game that can't just be bought on the store). The best we can hope for is them getting rid of scam-crates and just letting people buy what they want for crowns.

And your plan to replace the lost revenue (and keep on growing) to keep your employer (i.e. shareholders or a private owner in case of ESO) happy and prevent them from firing you and hiring someone else is...?

Micro-transactions and gambling mechanics are a new concept, how did games like WoW, Runescape, Ultima Online and so on survive without them? By selling the game, subscriptions (optional or required) and expansion packs.
There are plenty of games that simply made revenue off of selling the game and then selling expansion packs, as an mmo its more expensive and harder to maintain than a traditional multiplayer game I would have though but I still dont think we need a cash store that rivals most free to play games' with overpriced weekly reskins, scam crates with mounts that have less than a 0.1% chance to drop and all these stupid artificial scarcity "time limited" items.
They aren't relying on sales of gamble crates and recolored horses to keep the game going, its purely for profit. The game would survive fine without it.

I have very specifically asked you about lost revenue. People who run the show at ZOS (and most game dev studios) are not interested in "just surviving", they are there to make a profit. The more, the better. And sadly cash stores and lootboxes are really good at making profit. Otherwise nobody would have been doing them.

WiseSky · February 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I find crown crates to be very consumer friendly.

Consumer Friendly Groceries shopping

When I go shopping for groceries I bring a List of groceries totaling 100$

But I bring 1000$ and visit 10 groceries stores and I give the manager 100$ and tell him to get me 100$ worth of groceries, when he asks which... I say randomize it.

Then I pick up all the groceries from the 10 stores and 8 times out of 10 I get all the Items I needed on my List.

Quite Consumer friendly since I don't even need to shop, think of the time you will save.

darthgummibear_ESO · February 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

@Anotherone773

and a reasonable person expects that the crown store should just offer everything in crates in the Crown store. There's nothing socialist about that.

You know what would get people inclined to actually buy items? If they were available - sounds capitalist to me.

Also you can't depend on gems for everything. The very top apex-radiant rewards cannot be bought with gems, they rely entirely on RNG
Like the Chilling Senche-lizard: https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/chilling-senche-lizard/

Nothing about crown crates (which are gambling make no mistake about that) is consumer friendly. Period. End of Story.

Actually, a reasonable person doesnt. A reasonable person expects to get what they paid for in the crown store and that is EXACTLY what they get. They get a crate, in this context, in which they have a CHANCE of getting various items. They are buying the CHANCE, not the item. CHANCE. Furthermore, you are guaranteed 4 items. A reasonable person, as i said, understands they are probably going to get lower tier items but they might get a higher tier item... unless they have been sheltered all their life. Stop making stuff up to support your non argument.

You know what would get people inclined to actually buy items? If they were available - sounds capitalist to me.

Global lottery statistics would say not true. Global lottery sales consistently increase by an average of 5% a year.

Zos has items in the store for people who want to directly purchase items. They have items in crates for people who want to win items. Many people, including me, enjoy loot crates and other treasure type chance games. ZOS is obviously making good money on the crates because they keep doing new ones.

Also you can't depend on gems for everything. The very top apex-radiant rewards cannot be bought with gems, they rely entirely on RNG

I stated that already. So what? You want the reward you have to take the risk. No risk, no reward.

You are a whole new breed of sucker.

ATomiX69 · February 2020

Im pretty sure its one of their main income sources, so why would they ever stop milking it as long as they arent restricted by the law.

barney2525 · February 2020

Crown crates are fine with one caveat

Every item you get, even if it is a first-time collectible Should have the option of turning it into gems.

Since there is NO way to organize anything in your inventories, be it normal or collectibles, having the collectibles filled with pets or tattoos or costumes etc that you will Never use is pointless and after awhile - aggravating. Its just a huge waste of time to have to scroll though everything to find that one thing you want.

But since the crates items in many cases Can be changed into gems so you can get enough to 'buy' specific items makes crown crates much further ahead of standard boxes in other games.

IMHO

barney2525 · February 2020

bmnoble wrote: »

Just put everything up in the crown store all year round, scrap GEMS, let people buy what they want.

You have no idea what you are asking for.

You want to Buy everything Ala carte ? Every single item gets a flat crown cost? The players would end up spending a Huuuuuge amount of extra real money for less that what you get with crates/gems

How many items can you purchase with 5000 crowns?

How many items do you get with 15 crates = 5000 crowns

I am not in this boat that Wants to give any company More money than what They already ask for.

IMHO

Iccotak · February 2020

barney2525 wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Just put everything up in the crown store all year round, scrap GEMS, let people buy what they want.

You have no idea what you are asking for.

You want to Buy everything Ala carte ? Every single item gets a flat crown cost? The players would end up spending a Huuuuuge amount of extra real money for less that what you get with crates/gems

How many items can you purchase with 5000 crowns?

How many items do you get with 15 crates = 5000 crowns

I am not in this boat that Wants to give any company More money than what They already ask for.

IMHO

You can buy +100 crates and still not get the item that you're looking for.

You are coming from the perspective of:
"Let's find out it'll be a surprise" (i.e. crown crates are fun)

Other are coming from the perspective of:
"Let's see if I got what I was looking for" (i.e. this is not fun and it's a waste of money)

Kahnak · February 2020

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

@Anotherone773

and a reasonable person expects that the crown store should just offer everything in crates in the Crown store. There's nothing socialist about that.

You know what would get people inclined to actually buy items? If they were available - sounds capitalist to me.

Also you can't depend on gems for everything. The very top apex-radiant rewards cannot be bought with gems, they rely entirely on RNG
Like the Chilling Senche-lizard: https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/chilling-senche-lizard/

Nothing about crown crates (which are gambling make no mistake about that) is consumer friendly. Period. End of Story.

Actually, a reasonable person doesnt. A reasonable person expects to get what they paid for in the crown store and that is EXACTLY what they get. They get a crate, in this context, in which they have a CHANCE of getting various items. They are buying the CHANCE, not the item. CHANCE. Furthermore, you are guaranteed 4 items. A reasonable person, as i said, understands they are probably going to get lower tier items but they might get a higher tier item... unless they have been sheltered all their life. Stop making stuff up to support your non argument.

You know what would get people inclined to actually buy items? If they were available - sounds capitalist to me.

Global lottery statistics would say not true. Global lottery sales consistently increase by an average of 5% a year.

Zos has items in the store for people who want to directly purchase items. They have items in crates for people who want to win items. Many people, including me, enjoy loot crates and other treasure type chance games. ZOS is obviously making good money on the crates because they keep doing new ones.

Also you can't depend on gems for everything. The very top apex-radiant rewards cannot be bought with gems, they rely entirely on RNG

I stated that already. So what? You want the reward you have to take the risk. No risk, no reward.

You are a whole new breed of sucker.

Haha. No argument at all. Just insults for people you don't agree with.

Kahnak · February 2020

WiseSky wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I find crown crates to be very consumer friendly.

Consumer Friendly Groceries shopping

When I go shopping for groceries I bring a List of groceries totaling 100$

But I bring 1000$ and visit 10 groceries stores and I give the manager 100$ and tell him to get me 100$ worth of groceries, when he asks which... I say randomize it.

Then I pick up all the groceries from the 10 stores and 8 times out of 10 I get all the Items I needed on my List.

Quite Consumer friendly since I don't even need to shop, think of the time you will save.

Again, people continue to conflate direct transactions with gambling. When you buy Crown Crates, there is no mystery or illusion - you're paying money for the chance that you might get something great. You're not paying for a service, expecting to get something and then getting something else. It's a fallacious allegory and it keeps coming up. ZOS is not tricking people into buying their crates.

Kahnak · February 2020

Iccotak wrote: »

$150 of crown crates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaDdRLVUohg

+100 crates. Got 1 Apex reward
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOAaFnmzF7g

What point are you making by posting videos about people willingly spending money on Crown Crates?

Kahnak · February 2020

iiYuki wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

If it were up to me the entire crown store would go and the only thing sold would be services like character rename, appearance and race change and DLC.
I find it pretty sad its taken 5 years to finally tag a mount to an achievement you earn from actually playing content (imaging that actually earning something in this game that can't just be bought on the store). The best we can hope for is them getting rid of scam-crates and just letting people buy what they want for crowns.

And your plan to replace the lost revenue (and keep on growing) to keep your employer (i.e. shareholders or a private owner in case of ESO) happy and prevent them from firing you and hiring someone else is...?

Micro-transactions and gambling mechanics are a new concept, how did games like WoW, Runescape, Ultima Online and so on survive without them? By selling the game, subscriptions (optional or required) and expansion packs.
There are plenty of games that simply made revenue off of selling the game and then selling expansion packs, as an mmo its more expensive and harder to maintain than a traditional multiplayer game I would have though but I still dont think we need a cash store that rivals most free to play games' with overpriced weekly reskins, scam crates with mounts that have less than a 0.1% chance to drop and all these stupid artificial scarcity "time limited" items.
They aren't relying on sales of gamble crates and recolored horses to keep the game going, its purely for profit. The game would survive fine without it.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but the point of providing a service for money is not to break even.

Kahnak · February 2020

Hallothiel wrote: »

Those of you who like the crates haven’t really answered the question as to why the crates are necessary, and why items cant just be sold in the Crown store.

Why is it incumbent upon us to answer that question? It's obvious that they aren't necessary. That would be like me asking you why it's necessary for items to be sold individually in the Crown Store, but I didn't, because it's a stupid question and doesn't serve any purpose.

Isaura · February 2020

I guess that my comment is gonna get erased but yeah, ZOS and other gaming companies are perfectly aware that loot crates are a scam. And that the target are weak customers who don't realise that they are wasting money, money that could be use to pay bills, food, rent, or real quality-of-life improving stuff, and that instead goes into gambling for digital content. Not even real potential rewards. It's just even worse than a casino. But gaming companies don't care because it's generating money. They don't care at all. And people who are defending crates, to me, just lack maturity. I bet that just a fraction of crown crates buyers are really so rich IRL that they don't have to care about how they spend money. The majority should spend it more wisely. Nobody should be okay with this system. Like people said before it's predatory marketing. It's unethical and it proves how little zos cares about us.

Kahnak · February 2020

RGD wrote: »

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I think you’re a very holier-than-thou person from the thread and your posts.

You always speak about morality, calling us immoral for wanting adults to take responsibility for their actions; not blame them on companies.

We’ve stated our point clearly, and every time we counter something you say the same thing again and again. Copy and pasting the same things over and over.

Then you’ll start with the insults (i.e You’re disgusting! You’re immoral!). You over express your words too (i.e EXACTLY, IMMORAL).

You’re clearly incapable of seeing even a fraction of our point because you’re being blinded by your ‘holiness’.

You’re getting a bit to emotional in this debate.

My favourite part about your post is this: "wanting adults to take responsibility for their actions; not blame them on companies."

So companies aren't supposed to have responsibilities over their own actions? you're telling me they have no choice in what kinds of monetisation they implement, they're just automatically driven to loot boxes? (This is purely rhetorical, No, they aren't.)

Your point that "adults should take responsibility for their actions" - while at it's core is an ideal, it's not the case for everyone. And by that same token, companies should take responsibilities to be consumer friendly, and implement less predatory and more transparent monetisation into their games. Loot Boxes are highly controversial, many people disagree and have a distaste for their implementation because of their exploitative nature. Know what's a hell of a lot less controversial? selling things for an up-front price with no chance of not receiving what you pay for. I wonder why.

Taking away crown crates will not destroy your experience on ESO. If you like gambling, go to a casino or get a lottery ticket, go to a betting shop, play a sports game. There's plenty of places for you to get your dopamine fix, and lose your (presumably) hard-earned money at the same time.

"My favourite part about your post is this: "wanting adults to take responsibility for their actions; not blame them on companies."

Yes, tell us more about how companies should be more responsible for how adults interact with their games than the individual should be. I'm sure that's a really well thought out position.

"Your point that "adults should take responsibility for their actions" - while at it's core is an ideal, it's not the case for everyone. And by that same token, companies should take responsibilities to be consumer friendly, and implement less predatory and more transparent monetisation into their games. Loot Boxes are highly controversial, many people disagree and have a distaste for their implementation because of their exploitative nature. Know what's a hell of a lot less controversial? selling things for an up-front price with no chance of not receiving what you pay for. I wonder why."

It IS the case for all adults. You're going to try and make a point about how in some cases adults SHOULDN'T be responsible for their actions? In what circumstance? In regards to lootboxes at least, apparently, since that is the point you're trying to make. That's a really dangerous precedent to set and it has a lot of implications. But sure, let's throw personal responsibility out the window in this case, because it goes against whatever narrative you're trying to create.

"Taking away crown crates will not destroy your experience on ESO. If you like gambling, go to a casino or get a lottery ticket, go to a betting shop, play a sports game. There's plenty of places for you to get your dopamine fix, and lose your (presumably) hard-earned money at the same time."

This is a strawman. No one is arguing that losing Crown Crates is going to somehow destroy their experience. We aren't arguing for the existence of Crown Crates - they already exist. You are arguing for them to be discontinued, so I think you may be better off taking your own advice since having them in a game is so detrimental to your own experience that you've come on the forums to decry their existence.

Elsonso · February 2020

barney2525 wrote: »

But since the crates items in many cases Can be changed into gems so you can get enough to 'buy' specific items makes crown crates much further ahead of standard boxes in other games.

What would make them ever better? If you could buy those Gem-only things for Gems or Crowns. Yeah, that should be the next improvement.

Kahnak wrote: »

What point are you making by posting videos about people willingly spending money on Crown Crates?

Seems pretty obvious. This can go both ways, but the obvious point in posting them here is to show the negative side of the Crown Crates.

Kahnak · February 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

But since the crates items in many cases Can be changed into gems so you can get enough to 'buy' specific items makes crown crates much further ahead of standard boxes in other games.

What would make them ever better? If you could buy those Gem-only things for Gems or Crowns. Yeah, that should be the next improvement.

Kahnak wrote: »

What point are you making by posting videos about people willingly spending money on Crown Crates?

Seems pretty obvious. This can go both ways, but the obvious point in posting them here is to show the negative side of the Crown Crates.

You mean the negative side of gambling? Why is that necessary? Was there some confusion about people not getting what they want sometimes if they gamble? No, obviously not.

Now I'm going to go find a video from "Super Size Me" to illustrate my point that when you eat only fast food for a month you get fat.

Elsonso · February 2020

Kahnak wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

What point are you making by posting videos about people willingly spending money on Crown Crates?

Seems pretty obvious. This can go both ways, but the obvious point in posting them here is to show the negative side of the Crown Crates.

You mean the negative side of gambling? Why is that necessary? Was there some confusion about people not getting what they want sometimes if they gamble? No, obviously not.

Now I'm going to go find a video from "Super Size Me" to illustrate my point that when you eat only fast food for a month you get fat.

People are bad at understanding odds and probabilities. On top of that, ZOS does not actually publish the odds of winning, which they should do, but don't do, for obvious reasons. Watching someone else open them, and seeing the excitement or disappointment as they get, or do not get, the "good stuff", does help.

I have not watched all of them, but I have watched the one from Deltia as he opens his pile of Crown Crates. He is very quick to start labeling the stuff as trash, and his video really emphasizes that the main thing people get from Crown Crates is gems.

As a gem delivery system, I can certainly think of some improvements.

Kahnak · February 2020

Isaura wrote: »

I guess that my comment is gonna get erased but yeah, ZOS and other gaming companies are perfectly aware that loot crates are a scam. And that the target are weak customers who don't realise that they are wasting money, money that could be use to pay bills, food, rent, or real quality-of-life improving stuff, and that instead goes into gambling for digital content. Not even real potential rewards. It's just even worse than a casino. But gaming companies don't care because it's generating money. They don't care at all. And people who are defending crates, to me, just lack maturity. I bet that just a fraction of crown crates buyers are really so rich IRL that they don't have to care about how they spend money. The majority should spend it more wisely. Nobody should be okay with this system. Like people said before it's predatory marketing. It's unethical and it proves how little zos cares about us.

Obvious rhetoric aside, where is the evidence that the target of Crown Crates are weak, poor people that are being somehow tricked into spending their limited income? The potential rewards are obvious considering people have the chance to get an Apex mount in the first box, which does happen. How is gambling on Crown Crates worse than a casino? Where is the evidence that it is a predatory practice? It's clear that you don't have any intention on making an argument in good faith considering that you go on to generalize about the maturity and morality of people that disagree with you.

Kahnak · February 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

Kahnak wrote: »

What point are you making by posting videos about people willingly spending money on Crown Crates?

Seems pretty obvious. This can go both ways, but the obvious point in posting them here is to show the negative side of the Crown Crates.

You mean the negative side of gambling? Why is that necessary? Was there some confusion about people not getting what they want sometimes if they gamble? No, obviously not.

Now I'm going to go find a video from "Super Size Me" to illustrate my point that when you eat only fast food for a month you get fat.

People are bad at understanding odds and probabilities. On top of that, ZOS does not actually publish the odds of winning, which they should do, but don't do, for obvious reasons. Watching someone else open them, and seeing the excitement or disappointment as they get, or do not get, the "good stuff", does help.

I have not watched all of them, but I have watched the one from Deltia as he opens his pile of Crown Crates. He is very quick to start labeling the stuff as trash, and his video really emphasizes that the main thing people get from Crown Crates is gems.

As a gem delivery system, I can certainly think of some improvements.

"People are bad at understanding odds and probabilities. On top of that, ZOS does not actually publish the odds of winning, which they should do, but don't do, for obvious reasons. Watching someone else open them, and seeing the excitement or disappointment as they get, or do not get, the "good stuff", does help."

While it may be true that people are bad at understanding odds, if casinos aren't required by law to publish odds of winning, I don't see why ZOS should have to publish odds simply out of the goodness of their heart.

"I have not watched all of them, but I have watched the one from Deltia as he opens his pile of Crown Crates. He is very quick to start labeling the stuff as trash, and his video really emphasizes that the main thing people get from Crown Crates is gems."

Well, Deltia is just projecting.

"As a gem delivery system, I can certainly think of some improvements."

Certainly, I agree that the gem system could definitely be improved.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · February 2020

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I’m honestly thinking right now that people are trying to get Crown Crates removed, not for the people who are addicted, but because they want to directly purchase Crown Crate items. And are using people who addicted to hide behind that reason.

I too think this.

People are quick to pull a sympathy card for their own ends.

Which is disgusting.

BTW, I actually have some rather serious mental health issues myself. You don't see me banging on about it to get virtual video game items.

Sure I bang on about it for real issues like employment and fair treatment, but, that makes sense.

Using such things to make it "easier" to get a shiny horse in a video game?

Do one.

Elsonso · February 2020

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I’m honestly thinking right now that people are trying to get Crown Crates removed, not for the people who are addicted, but because they want to directly purchase Crown Crate items. And are using people who addicted to hide behind that reason.

I too think this.

People are quick to pull a sympathy card for their own ends.

Personally, I want them to get rid of Crown Crates and provide direct purchase. I just want to be able to buy the items without having to fiddle around with RNG. No gambling addiction or children cards being played here. In the first case, they need to seek help, or are getting help, local to them. In the second case, it is the responsibility of the parents, and if they are not doing that job properly, there are people local to them that will be happy to address that issue.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · February 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I’m honestly thinking right now that people are trying to get Crown Crates removed, not for the people who are addicted, but because they want to directly purchase Crown Crate items. And are using people who addicted to hide behind that reason.

I too think this.

People are quick to pull a sympathy card for their own ends.

Personally, I want them to get rid of Crown Crates and provide direct purchase. I just want to be able to buy the items without having to fiddle around with RNG. No gambling addiction or children cards being played here. In the first case, they need to seek help, or are getting help, local to them. In the second case, it is the responsibility of the parents, and if they are not doing that job properly, there are people local to them that will be happy to address that issue.

Reasonable.

But I do have to ask, are you prepared for the possibility that all the items currently in crates may never be made available again?

It's important to consider how ZOS might react after a crate removal. It does not necessarily mean that things will get better for the consumer or collector.

It could just as easily get worse, as far as collectors are concerned.