As many countries are debating lootbox legality, how about getting rid of or replacing Crown Crates?

dan958 · January 2020

When people spend lots on crown crates, Zos will continue to sell them up until (and if) the law changes.

I'd much prefer to just buy the items I want, but whales keep the loot box market going.

RGD · January 2020

dan958 wrote: »

When people spend lots on crown crates, Zos will continue to sell them up until (and if) the law changes.

I'd much prefer to just buy the items I want, but whales keep the loot box market going.

It can't just be the whales. They likely make up the largest part of the market but I reckon if every non-whale stopped buying them, they'd be replaced. Only chance to do that is to protest by not buying, and telling your friends to do the same. Problem is most folks have just accepted their existance or ignore them considering they've been around for so long.

WiseSky · January 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I find crown crates to be very consumer friendly.

I thinhk thiz komment brok me byrain

Slimebrow · January 2020

Most likely this is what ZOS will say to you about loot crates they have in their game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVYEqaFZJWo
As long as people buy it the more it will exist. Honestly I don't think there is any point in making threads like these because they will always exist in ESO.

IMO sure I agree with what was said above. They can strip away loot crates and gems and leave to the people to decide what they want to buy and personally to me it would be a more honest and better business model than it what currently is now.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · January 2020

They probapby will only removethem from the country where its illegal whilekeeping them for the rest of us
In gta online there is a playable casino, insome country casino (or at least online gambling) is illegal therefore for the people in these country and those alone the casino is disabled
While it would be better to remove crown crate all together my bet is on local removal

NeillMcAttack · January 2020

The term “predatory” is defined as naturally preying on someone or some thing, or simply, and in this case “the exploiting of others” in this case, for your money and time, time investments lead to monetary investments.
There are numerous systems within ESO and other games that are absolutely predatory. It’s not just crown crates, it’s almost all reward systems in this particular game. This is not by coincidence, or common practice, even if the practice has become common. It just means that developers realise it’s more profitable to have RNG rewards over more traditional rewards.
From daily log-ins, to refining materials, to farming loot, to buying and selling in the trade guild market, opening chests, farming motifs, research times etc. These are all techniques to get a player “hooked”. Getting a player invested either being a time investment or a monetary investment is how games like this’ success’ are measured.

Developers of these games hire psychologists to develop these systems, and to research new and better ways of getting that “hook” into people. As that hook leads to cash money. These aren’t opinions, these are well documented, and extremely common practices in the gaming industry. The grown-ups here should be very much aware of this and understand that their defending of these practices is not only ignorant but more likely a form of “brand loyalty” due to being emotionally invested in this product.

I can hold my hand up and say I am emotionally invested in this product as the human psyche is what it is. Maybe people should grow up and try to look at things from a new perspective.

Anotherone773 · January 2020

kargen27 wrote: »

By legal definition crown crates are not gambling. You are guaranteed something for your purchase. They are no more predatory than Topp's Baseball cards. They are similar to the way collector cards work. You buy a package knowing what the minimum amount of cards you will be. It is up to you to decide is it worth the price to get that one card you are looking for.

Where they differ is with cards people can sell the contents of the package for whatever price someone else thinks they are worth. So eventually you could buy the card from someone else. With the crates you can get gems but the price is set and the items more limited.

I still think it is up to we the people to be responsible for our own actions but would be nice if everything that can be found in the crates would also eventually be available with the gems. That way you at least know a maximum price and anything less than that price is gravy.

Im actually a bit jealous that i didnt think of this connection since i use to collect baseball cards and would buy an entire box of cards every month to (try to) get the ones i were missing. Just think by this definition Topps was preying on me and i was a 10 year old gambler!

This is a 100% correct analogy though as you know what you are getting something and you know what the minimum "prize" is. You just have a chance to get something that is more desirable( to you.) Not everyone values the prizes the same way. Even prizes in the same category, like pets, people will desire different pets differently. One of the perks of crates is they appeal to a large selection of people rather than just a tiny group that one of their items might appeal to. Bundling them together makes the items more profitable than they would be if they were sold solo.

Kittytravel wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

However, the other 97% of the population( Here in the US, 3% of the population has a gambling problem.) should not have to suffer because 3% of the population is incapable of self control.

More out of my love for statistics and their egregious manipulation than out of any care for the thread I'd just like to point out that many surveys don't consider online games such as ESO and many others in their "gambling addiction" statistics rather they only count what is legally defined as gambling.
So 3% is really hard to prove when we they likely only count 10% of actual gambling occurring in the US.
(Crown Crates require to you to pay money for a chance at something; that's defined under gambling.)

With that said idc what they do with Crown Crates I just know I don't buy them and probably never will. I don't personally like rigged systems to begin with and theirs is pretty rigged.

1) You are changing the definition of gambling to suit your bias and to prove your argument which i actually find hilarious for someone who cares so much about the " manipulation of statistics" since you just did such to support your argument.

2) Rigged is your opinion. I actually find it to be quite a reasonable system since i can trade in things i dont want for my pick of things i do want and the selection of things to to choose from changes regularly. That is pretty note rigged.

Brandathorbel · January 2020

here is what i think will happen.

To me, Loot boxes are a type of gambling, in its base mechanics and what it tries to accomplish. I don't know how anyone can argue against it unless they are trying to defend a company.

They will eventually be seen as a gambling mechanic and the game will be branded as 18+ and you will not be able to advertise to minors.

but really, does that really do much with any other 18+ game? A minor will just not be able to go to a store and buy a physical copy so all they really have to do is buy it online.

Honestly, i think Zos would make more money if they just put all the stuff on the crown store. I don't doubt there are a lot of people that want something in it the boxes but won't buy the boxes.

Kahnak · January 2020

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The term “predatory” is defined as naturally preying on someone or some thing, or simply, and in this case “the exploiting of others” in this case, for your money and time, time investments lead to monetary investments.
There are numerous systems within ESO and other games that are absolutely predatory. It’s not just crown crates, it’s almost all reward systems in this particular game. This is not by coincidence, or common practice, even if the practice has become common. It just means that developers realise it’s more profitable to have RNG rewards over more traditional rewards.
From daily log-ins, to refining materials, to farming loot, to buying and selling in the trade guild market, opening chests, farming motifs, research times etc. These are all techniques to get a player “hooked”. Getting a player invested either being a time investment or a monetary investment is how games like this’ success’ are measured.

Developers of these games hire psychologists to develop these systems, and to research new and better ways of getting that “hook” into people. As that hook leads to cash money. These aren’t opinions, these are well documented, and extremely common practices in the gaming industry. The grown-ups here should be very much aware of this and understand that their defending of these practices is not only ignorant but more likely a form of “brand loyalty” due to being emotionally invested in this product.

I can hold my hand up and say I am emotionally invested in this product as the human psyche is what it is. Maybe people should grow up and try to look at things from a new perspective.

"The term “predatory” is defined as naturally preying on someone or some thing, or simply, and in this case “the exploiting of others” in this case, for your money and time, time investments lead to monetary investments."

There is an implication here that there is some kind of victim of whatever practice you are claiming is predatory. It seems to me that the only people complaining about Crown Crates are people who don't spend money in the Crown Store on principle. If that is the case, who are the victims here? I know exactly what I'm getting into when I spend digital currency on digital goods.

"There are numerous systems within ESO and other games that are absolutely predatory. It’s not just crown crates, it’s almost all reward systems in this particular game. This is not by coincidence, or common practice, even if the practice has become common. It just means that developers realise it’s more profitable to have RNG rewards over more traditional rewards.
From daily log-ins, to refining materials, to farming loot, to buying and selling in the trade guild market, opening chests, farming motifs, research times etc. These are all techniques to get a player “hooked”. Getting a player invested either being a time investment or a monetary investment is how games like this’ success’ are measured."

So, all the rewards systems in this game are predatory? Again, who is the victim? You didn't get as many tannins when you refined your materials, so now ZOS is preying on you? How? All this says is, "I'm a victim of the game if the game doesn't give me the exact reward I want the first time I spend any time or money". I honestly couldn't think up a more entitled world view if I tried. Why would you play a game that you feel is preying on you in some way?

"Developers of these games hire psychologists to develop these systems, and to research new and better ways of getting that “hook” into people. As that hook leads to cash money. These aren’t opinions, these are well documented, and extremely common practices in the gaming industry. The grown-ups here should be very much aware of this and understand that their defending of these practices is not only ignorant but more likely a form of “brand loyalty” due to being emotionally invested in this product."

Just because a company is researching the best way to extend the life of the game does not then mean that they are committing an act that is morally wrong. It would be foolish not to - it's the same thing that advertisers do. You're simply conflating this with a loot box system when they are mutually exclusive from one another. Every MMO does this regardless if they have a version of Crown Crates or not. Asserting that the people that don't agree with you are ignorant and deficient in some way is called 'poisoning the well' and it's not an appropriate way to have a constructive discussion in good faith.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · January 2020

Everyone on the Internet is these three things: A lawyer, a software developer, and a world leader.

Yes, this is sarcasm.

Guys, ZOS are an incredibly rich company parented by an even richer company. Do you really think they are threatened by amateur lawyers who watched the news once?

As already said, it is quite simple. They will continue to sell until it is illegal to do so.

And even if crates do fall under illegality... That does not mean you are suddenly going to be able to buy everything.

It may actually be that all those things that only ever existed as Gem purchases will never be available again. ZOS can always make new products and as for the previous items? They have no obligation to offer them again, as ZOS owns everything in this game, including your Crowns.

This is not me defending things, but being realistic.

Anotherone773 · January 2020

RGD wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

But my entire world should NOT be flipped on its head to accommodate someone else's problems.

Your ENTIRE WORLD? so gambling is your entire world? crown crates not existing would flip your whole existance upside-down? if that's true... I feel sorry for you.

You are actually trying to change something that is capitalistic in nature to something that is socialistic in nature.

So trying to make something better for more people is worse for than trying to make something good for the few? okay. cool.

If you want the reward, take the risk. Or accept that you wont get the reward because you didnt risk it.

When coming to things I either want to trade currency for it and get it, or do the work to get it. Why does risk have to be involved? The risk shouldn't be in the equation when it comes to buying goods, online or otherwise. They could easily implement a system to either earn the items they'd otherwise have in crates, or buy them outright and I GUARANTEE the majority of players would be happier for it, and provided they monitise it, say in a battle pass format, they ZOS would benefit from it, too. It's still capitalism, it's just slightly more consumer friendly, fair, and fun.

As for your "thought this was trolling" - I could honestly say the same for you. I understand that gambling can be a fun activity, especially for those financially capable of doing so, but not for everyone, especially not in video games. I have a hard time understanding someone would so adamantly defend such a monetisation system through little gain of their own. Unless you somehow bought like 15 crown crates and got one of the Radiant Apex rewards on the first try then you rolled another in your second crate, I don't see how the system does right by you in any way.

I was going to reply to this with counter points, but i realized it would be a waste of my time since i have now determined this is one of the most common arguments for removing the crates. " I want it but i cant afford it or dont want to spend X trying to obtain it...but i REALLY want it.... SO you should change the entire way you run your business so it suites me and i can have what i want."

I dont debate with spoiled children and im not about to start today.

Aznarb · January 2020

bmnoble wrote: »

Just put everything up in the crown store all year round, scrap GEMS, let people buy what they want.

100% this, I'll definitely use more money in the game if anything was not stuck behind a *** RNG wall.
I'm glad for them to see so much pigeon buying these thing, but some of us still have a brain and don't want to throw money in something we're not sur to get.

Like, come buy a car crate for 50 000€ with 1% chance for a Ferrari and 90% chance for a bike for 10year old.
I'm sur it's gonna be a success.

Royaji · January 2020

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Everyone on the Internet is these three things: A lawyer, a software developer, and a world leader.

I would add "a marketing expert" to this list. Considering how very sure all of them are that ZOS will be making so much more money by selling stuff directly.

You know, because marketing departments in most major gaming companies have no idea what they are doing and just keep on adding those loot boxes to every game in an attempt to lose money...

iiYuki · January 2020

If it were up to me the entire crown store would go and the only thing sold would be services like character rename, appearance and race change and DLC.
I find it pretty sad its taken 5 years to finally tag a mount to an achievement you earn from actually playing content (imaging that actually earning something in this game that can't just be bought on the store). The best we can hope for is them getting rid of scam-crates and just letting people buy what they want for crowns.

Akisohida · January 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

RGD wrote: »

latest being the UK, the NHS saying they're unhealthy, and can lead to gambling addictions and such.

Alcohol is also unhealthy, but pubs are everywhere and unless your pregnant, under age, or have a medical issue that prevents you from drinking, you are looked at suspiciously for not consuming alcohol.

That particular article got me thinking, is it time to get rid of Crown Crates in favour of some less egregious and predatory systems for cool stuff?

Its not predatory. People need to learn to take responsibility for themselves and stop expecting a nanny state to coddle and care for them and shield them from things that might harm them.

Now, I predict that there'll be some people who'll say things like "lol, crown crates are optional, so if you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em!" - obviously that's the case, but for a lot of people, cosmetics are a large part of video games, like, a huge part, and crown crates hold some of the nicest cosmetics in the game. It's CRYSTAL CLEAR that 99% of the Crown Store item developers time is spent on upcoming content for Crown Crates. This sucks because the Crown Crate (loot box) system is predatory and exploitative of players who value cosmetics in games by stuffing the cool stuff behind a steep price and unbelievable RNG chances. Now, to those who say they're optional, yes they are, but you can agree that ZOS is fully capable of introducing the same cosmetics in a more consumer-friendly and generally less disgusting way.

So crown crates are predatory because they have items in them some people desire? Really? Wow.

I find crown crates to be very consumer friendly. i even grab a few every once in a great while. I also go to the casino every once in a while and never spend more than i want too and never have gamblers remorse. People who have problems with situations in which something is a gamble should stay away from those situations. However, the other 97% of the population( Here in the US, 3% of the population has a gambling problem.) should not have to suffer because 3% of the population is incapable of self control.

I think it is absolutely 100% cheeky for a small percentage of the population to expect a large percent of the population to cater to them because they lack self control and good judgement. I have to wonder if the same people play the lottery and then expect the "state" to give them a reward for playing?

There are probably quite a few ways to still monetize the stuff from crown crates successfully, but not be lame about the way it's done. First being obvious, just put them on the crown store as a direct purchase. Second, and probably will have people rolling their eyes at the suggestion of it, but a "Battle Pass" type system could be introduced. There's more than enough content placed in crown crates to fill a 100-tier pass with free and premium tiers. The challenges could be an easy thing, too; things like do certain dungeons, repeatable quests, crafting writs, kill certain amounts or types of enemies, dolmens, events, world bosses, the possibilities are quite endless. This way the items will be monetizable via the premium pass and buying tiers, and it'll incentivize certain activities for the players to return to. There's a few basic ways to replace Crown Crates that I, and I imagine plenty of players would be happy to engage in.

They have a system that works, it is crown crates. If they have to go to a system in which they have to have set prices for items, they will either stop selling those items or, more likely, have to sell far more desirable items like actual pay 2 win items.

The idea behind crown crates or any type of "gambling" is that you only spend what you can afford to lose. If you ( general)are spending more than you can afford to lose trying to win some pixels, that is not our( the communities) problem. Why should we be punished for your(general) irresponsibility and inability to make adult decisions?

I doubt anyone from ZOS will read this, let alone crown crates ever disappearing, the best chance of that happening would be for as many people as possible to stop buying them, or many countries outlawing loot box-type mechanics in video games. It's something I hope will happen one day, because I like the stuff in the crates, and I'm happy to purchase them and support the game, but I will not buy the CHANCE to get something.

And suddenly the motive is made clear. " I want X but i dont like the price of X, so i want the entire system to be changed so i can acquire X on my terms" That is not the way the world works.

And you are right crown crates will probably not ever go away. In the US gambling is becoming legal in far more places, not the other way around. Every bar in my state has legal gambling machines in it, something it didnt have 10 years ago. The most you are going to get here in the states is that ZOS is forced to disclose odds of winning each prize, which is something they should have to do.

Got to hell. Lootboxes are predatory.

They were designed to take advantage of people with gambling problems. That's what all the controversy is about surrounding lootboxes.

They were 100% designed to prey on people who cannot control themselves. It's an actual compulsion for some people, and you blaming the victim instead of the company preying on them is about as disgusting as it gets.

The companies know exactly who's buying their lootboxes in large quantities and they WANT these people hooked for as long as possible.
They don't care if the buyer is spending his rent/electric/food money on lootboxes. In fact, they WANT them to do so, because money spent on food is not money in their pocket.

And don't start with the 'Well, the companies started raising awareness of lootboxes & how to block them!' because that's a joke.
You know what companies do? They sell a game without lootboxes at launch. This lowers the ESRB (or variant in your country) rating, and PREVENTS the game case from saying 'Contains lootboxes'.

They then ADD lootboxes 6 months down the line. Oh look! The game cases, which they say 'Read the case to see if your game has lootboxes!' is now false.

The companies literally sidestep their own rules and suggestions on how to 'prevent' lootbox abuse so they can continue to abuse problem gamblers.

So once again; go to hell. Lootboxes are abusing people with real compulsion problems, and it's NOT the person's fault. It's the fault of the company deciding to prey on these people. That's right up there with 'Well, if she did not want her butt grabbed, maybe she should not wear those clothes'. Your victim shaming.
'Well, if he did not want to be targeted by predatory gambling mechanics, maybe he should not have bought the game/read the game case'.
(Except, as I pointed out above, game companies can add lootboxes later to sidestep their own preventative measures).

Royaji · January 2020

iiYuki wrote: »

If it were up to me the entire crown store would go and the only thing sold would be services like character rename, appearance and race change and DLC.
I find it pretty sad its taken 5 years to finally tag a mount to an achievement you earn from actually playing content (imaging that actually earning something in this game that can't just be bought on the store). The best we can hope for is them getting rid of scam-crates and just letting people buy what they want for crowns.

And your plan to replace the lost revenue (and keep on growing) to keep your employer (i.e. shareholders or a private owner in case of ESO) happy and prevent them from firing you and hiring someone else is...?

Eweroun · January 2020

RGD wrote: »

Actually, there's a few countries that've already implemented legal measures to combat loot box mechanics, Belgium being one, ...

I hope you know you are completely wrong about this one..

Crown store boxes don't fall under the "loot box act", given you don't buy them with real money, but with an in-game currency.
This is a really important difference if you want to point towards a legal measure..

The only thing that is forbidden in Belgium is you cannot offer a 'lootbox with unknown, rng-based content' for real money in the game.

Nemesis7884 · January 2020

RGD wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

stupid idea...now a small amount of players finance a large portion of the game....what do you think will happen? they obviously will replace the revenues with other systems that will most likely target a broader player base which will probably result in fewer players overall...everyone looses

Waitwaitwait. So replacing a gambling system with a work/reward or straight-up buying system would target a broader player base and make the game lose players? what???

How would a system providing cool rewards for people who pay/put in work, incentivizing various types of content result in less players playing the game? I'm pretty sure the only people contributing a large amount of money for the crates are the very small amount of players who have a large amount of expendable income. I would imagine a slightly bigger amount of people who buy between 4-15 crates. Then there are others who spend their ESO+ crowns on crates and only those crowns.

How would providing way more players the surefire way to buy cool cosmetics, or provide everyone with a pass system to earn it be a bad thing? I guarantee more people would pay, and it would likely equal or be more profitable than the crates.

i am not saying this is more desireable - but the reason companies do it is because the revenues are higher when a small amount of people spend an ungodly amount on these gambling mechanics and companies can obscure real prices more... when prices are transparent people will most likely buy less and revenues might go down - otherwise i would assume companies would go that route with everything...

Listen i am all for a more transparent, fair, easier more straight forward system... i think people will just be in for a rude awakening when they think prices would go down and not up with such a straight forward model...

I would absolutely prefer if companies went back to transparent and fair pricing models - cosmetic micro trx like the used to, straight forward, fair prices etc. etc... looking at recent history i am just afraid any change / regulation will just lead to even more opaque and predatory practices...

Akisohida · January 2020

Eweroun wrote: »

RGD wrote: »

Actually, there's a few countries that've already implemented legal measures to combat loot box mechanics, Belgium being one, ...

I hope you know you are completely wrong about this one..

Crown store boxes don't fall under the "loot box act", given you don't buy them with real money, but with an in-game currency.
This is a really important difference if you want to point towards a legal measure..

The only thing that is forbidden in Belgium is you cannot offer a 'lootbox with unknown, rng-based content' for real money in the game.

You do realize the buy with in-game currency was invented to sidestep the 'gambling' laws? IE: 'It's not gambling because you're using FAKE money!'

...Fake money you bought with REAL money. They just made it 1 step removed and hoped people would be too stupid to notice.

Bradyfjord · January 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Im actually a bit jealous that i didnt think of this connection since i use to collect baseball cards and would buy an entire box of cards every month to (try to) get the ones i were missing. Just think by this definition Topps was preying on me and i was a 10 year old gambler!

This is a 100% correct analogy though as you know what you are getting something and you know what the minimum "prize" is. You just have a chance to get something that is more desirable( to you.) Not everyone values the prizes the same way. Even prizes in the same category, like pets, people will desire different pets differently. One of the perks of crates is they appeal to a large selection of people rather than just a tiny group that one of their items might appeal to. Bundling them together makes the items more profitable than they would be if they were sold solo.

It probably never occurred to you that parents are responsible for their children. So, if a 10 year old child (you) bought too many baseball cards to be healthy, then it is the parents' (your parents') responsibility to step in and teach you to protect yourself by being more responsible.

It isn't the loot crates, or gambling that is the problem. It is that some people have addictive personalities. These sad addicts want to put the responsibility of healing their bad behaviors on others. The truth is, until addicts accept their responsibility to control their impulses, they will suffer from their affliction. It is not my responsibility to fix their problem.

xbobx15 wrote: »

To me, Loot boxes are a type of gambling, in its base mechanics and what it tries to accomplish. I don't know how anyone can argue against it unless they are trying to defend a company.

I'm not defending a company that needs no defense. They haven't done anything illegal, or immoral.

I am defending the idea that people are responsible for their own actions. And parents are (supposed) to be responsible for their children, so if children are being harmed the parents should be looked at as negligent in their parenting. I taught my children about responsibility throughout their lives, and also taught them that when they don't understand their situation they need to read about it to learn how to handle it. They are very self-sufficient young adults now.

People need to be more responsible, and stop looking for someone else to bail them out, especially when it's something like loot crates. A very specific thing that can only be accessed through a specific channel that a parent can easily monitor compared to something like facebook (which can be accessed almost anywhere).

I believe if people were held to a higher threshold of responsibility people would live happier lives because they would more often feel in control of their situations. There would still be problems like addictions, but responsible people would readily go seek help when their family and friends point things out. That is the reason I am so sad about how people say it is predatory when it is simply a few people refusing to take responsibility for their decision making.

Aptonoth · January 2020

Even the us is debating how predatory loot boxes are. The only time I ever see people defend them is if they are paid by the company in a very obvious fashion.

Royaji · January 2020

Akisohida wrote: »

Eweroun wrote: »

RGD wrote: »

Actually, there's a few countries that've already implemented legal measures to combat loot box mechanics, Belgium being one, ...

I hope you know you are completely wrong about this one..

Crown store boxes don't fall under the "loot box act", given you don't buy them with real money, but with an in-game currency.
This is a really important difference if you want to point towards a legal measure..

The only thing that is forbidden in Belgium is you cannot offer a 'lootbox with unknown, rng-based content' for real money in the game.

You do realize the buy with in-game currency was invented to sidestep the 'gambling' laws? IE: 'It's not gambling because you're using FAKE money!'

...Fake money you bought with REAL money. They just made it 1 step removed and hoped people would be too stupid to notice.

Well, funny thing... Lot's of people actually are too stupid to notice.

Coppes · January 2020

Video Game addictions are also a thing. People have died from it. Should we ban it too?

kargen27 · January 2020

FierceSam wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

I still think it is up to we the people to be responsible for our own actions but would be nice if everything that can be found in the crates would also eventually be available with the gems. That way you at least know a maximum price and anything less than that price is gravy.

Dude you have no idea how much a gem is in real money.

Gems are a fake currency buried behind an RNG wall and a totally abstract conversion system. There is no correlation between the price of a crate and the number of gems you will get from it. So you have no idea how much that 600 gem horse has cost you (other than it’s offensively expensive).

The whole point of gems as a currency is to confuse and delude players so they have no idea how much real money they are spending.

You are right, players should be responsible for their decisions, but equally ZOS should not be going out of their way to deliberately hide the cost of items.

Sure I know and it doesn't change my opinion a bit. The price is to high for some and not for others. Just like about any luxury item (and honestly that is what we are talking about) found anywhere inside the game or out in the real world.
You can get a fairly good approximation of how many crates you need to reach a certain number of gems.

Bradyfjord · January 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Just put everything up in the crown store all year round, scrap GEMS, let people buy what they want.

100% this, I'll definitely use more money in the game if anything was not stuck behind a *** RNG wall.
I'm glad for them to see so much pigeon buying these thing, but some of us still have a brain and don't want to throw money in something we're not sur to get.

Like, come buy a car crate for 50 000€ with 1% chance for a Ferrari and 90% chance for a bike for 10year old.
I'm sur it's gonna be a success.

This is a different concern from what the OP stated, and I respect this. You're saying you won't buy something when you don't even know what it is yet.

I bought 15 crates a few weeks ago, and got a handful of worthless items including a costume I'll never use. But I laughed over discord with my brother who also bought 15 crates. We simply enjoyed a few minutes engaging in a harmless activity for fun. No harm, no foul.

You are acting responsibly by not spending your money on something you don't want. Since my brother and I were spending money on entertainment, we don't feel we've wasted anything.

If I had spent my rent money on crates I (and society) would only have me to blame. I would need to be more responsible and pay rent before buying crown crates. The OP wants to shift responsibility of bad behavior from the one performing the bad behavior (wasting their money) to someone who did not. All the laws in the world can't stop a fool from being a fool. But when the fool stops being foolish (buying something he doesn't need/want), then he's no longer the fool is he?

Akisohida · January 2020

Spaceroamer wrote: »

Video Game addictions are also a thing. People have died from it. Should we ban it too?

Nice fallacy. Just because something is worse, does not mean the lesser evil should be ignored.

You'll also notice games have THINGS IN PLACE TO PREVENT GAMING ADDICTION!
You know; small messages reminded players to take a break and whatnot?

Lootboxes have 'Look at the box to see if it contains lootboxes!'

Which, as I stated above, companies are LYING ABOUT by adding lootboxes AFTER the game has been out for 6 months.

Stop defending lootboxes; they are a predatory practice meant to prey on people with legit disabilities. Stop defending an actual god damn immoral practice.
You're just being the type of person game companies laugh at for defending something they know is wrong, but it's making them wads of cash.

Coppes · January 2020

Akisohida wrote: »

Spaceroamer wrote: »

Video Game addictions are also a thing. People have died from it. Should we ban it too?

Nice fallacy. Just because something is worse, does not mean the lesser evil should be ignored.

You'll also notice games have THINGS IN PLACE TO PREVENT GAMING ADDICTION!
You know; small messages reminded players to take a break and whatnot?

Lootboxes have 'Look at the box to see if it contains lootboxes!'

Which, as I stated above, companies are LYING ABOUT by adding lootboxes AFTER the game has been out for 6 months.

Stop defending lootboxes; they are a predatory practice meant to prey on people with legit disabilities. Stop defending an actual god damn immoral practice.
You're just being the type of person game companies laugh at for defending something they know is wrong, but it's making them wads of cash.

The by your example, put a warning next to Crown Crates or Lootboxes then.

Games have the right to add whatever they want after launch. It’s in their TOS (that everyone signs before they play a online game).

Agenericname · January 2020

RGD wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Those that are in favour - please point out one positive thing about these crates & how they are implemented.

Perhaps if the items were available in the store as well as the crates, then those that do not like to gamble (and it is gambling) can buy what they like (a very capitalist thing) and those that like to chance it can buy the crates.

Best of both worlds then, surely?

Couldn't agree more. Please, for everyone who's for the Crates, explain exactly why you think they should stay and why you think purchasing outright or earning items shouldn't be a thing.

I guarantee even the people who like the crates would buy the items outright if they were available alongside crates. It's the financially responsible thing to do, afterall.

You'd have to really stretch or bend reality to find a scenario where the purchase of a radiant mount in a video was financially responsible.

kargen27 · January 2020

"This is not by coincidence, or common practice, even if the practice has become common. It just means that developers realise it’s more profitable to have RNG rewards over more traditional rewards.
From daily log-ins, to refining materials, to farming loot, to buying and selling in the trade guild market, opening chests, farming motifs, research times etc. These are all techniques to get a player “hooked”. Getting a player invested either being a time investment or a monetary investment is how games like this’ success’ are measured."

This game is an MMO. An MMO survives by introducing new content and getting players to repeat content. RNG is introduced to get players to repeat content and that is good for the long term health of the game. If we could get the armor and weapons we want with ease most of us would have moved on to another game a long time ago. I agree these tactics are put in the game to keep us playing the game. I disagree that it is some nefarious plot. Without all these time sinks the game would fail quick.

Akisohida · January 2020

Spaceroamer wrote: »

Akisohida wrote: »

Spaceroamer wrote: »

Video Game addictions are also a thing. People have died from it. Should we ban it too?

Nice fallacy. Just because something is worse, does not mean the lesser evil should be ignored.

You'll also notice games have THINGS IN PLACE TO PREVENT GAMING ADDICTION!
You know; small messages reminded players to take a break and whatnot?

Lootboxes have 'Look at the box to see if it contains lootboxes!'

Which, as I stated above, companies are LYING ABOUT by adding lootboxes AFTER the game has been out for 6 months.

Stop defending lootboxes; they are a predatory practice meant to prey on people with legit disabilities. Stop defending an actual god damn immoral practice.
You're just being the type of person game companies laugh at for defending something they know is wrong, but it's making them wads of cash.

The by your example, put a warning next to Crown Crates or Lootboxes then.

Games have the right to add whatever they want after launch. It’s in their TOS (that everyone signs before they play a online game).

No, no they don't have a right. That's what the fight for lootbox laws ARE! The fight to stop companies from preying on people with legit problems!

Why is this so hard to understand for some people?

Abusing People With A Problem = WRONG! IMMORAL. BAD. EVIL. CRUEL. AND SHOUDL BE IL-GODS DAMNED-LEGAL!