As many countries are debating lootbox legality, how about getting rid of or replacing Crown Crates?

RGD · January 2020

So as the title above says, there's quite a few countries debating the legality of Loot Boxes, and gambling mechanics in games. Recently, while not legally relevant but is a significant event in the debate, in the UK, the National Health Service (NHS) wrote about loot boxes in games and say they're unhealthy, and that they can lead to a gambling addiction. That particular article got me thinking, is it time to get rid of Crown Crates in favour of some less egregious and predatory systems for cool stuff? YES, it is! (tbh, crown crates should've never existed imo, brought my opinion on ZOS down quite abit when they were introduced.)

Now, I predict that there'll be some people who'll say things like "lol, crown crates are optional, so if you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em!" - obviously that's the case, but for a lot of people, cosmetics are a large part of video games, like, a huge part, and crown crates hold some of the nicest cosmetics in the game. It's CRYSTAL CLEAR that 99% of the Crown Store item developers time is spent on upcoming content for Crown Crates. This sucks because the Crown Crate (loot box) system is predatory and exploitative of players who value cosmetics in games by stuffing the cool stuff behind a steep price and unbelievable RNG chances. Now, to those who say they're optional, yes they are, but you can agree that ZOS is fully capable of introducing the same cosmetics in a more consumer-friendly and generally less disgusting way.

There are probably quite a few ways to still monetize the stuff from crown crates successfully, but not be lame about the way it's done. First being obvious, just put them on the crown store as a direct purchase. Second, and probably will have people rolling their eyes at the suggestion of it, but a "Battle Pass" type system could be introduced. There's more than enough content placed in crown crates to fill a 100-tier pass with free and premium tiers. The challenges could be an easy thing, too; things like do certain dungeons, repeatable quests, crafting writs, kill certain amounts or types of enemies, dolmens, events, world bosses, the possibilities are quite endless. This way the items will be monetizable via the premium pass and buying tiers, and it'll incentivize certain activities for the players to return to. There's a few basic ways to replace Crown Crates that I, and I imagine plenty of players would be happy to engage in.

I doubt anyone from ZOS will read this, let alone crown crates ever disappearing, the best chance of that happening would be for as many people as possible to stop buying them, or many countries outlawing loot box-type mechanics in video games. It's something I hope will happen one day, because I like the stuff in the crates, and I'm happy to purchase them and support the game, but I will not buy the CHANCE to get something.

bmnoble · January 2020

Just put everything up in the crown store all year round, scrap GEMS, let people buy what they want.

idk · January 2020

Even your comment about the UK states nothing about them outlawing the boxes. A statement from the NHS is meaningless until and unless Parliament actually passes a law. Harsh criticism is all the NHS has provided on the subject. That is not cracking down on anything.

My comment is not in support of loot boxes as I choose to not buy them. Just pointing out the title is inaccurate based on the information provided by the OP. BTW, Zos really has no reason to read this thread. They have professionals and experts keeping an eye on anything that may develop they need to deal with in this area. Amateur armchair experts are not the best sources for legal advice.

RGD · January 2020

idk wrote: »

Even your comment about the UK states nothing about them outlawing the boxes. A statement from the NHS is meaningless until and unless Parliament actually passes a law. Harsh criticism is all the NHS has provided on the subject. That is not cracking down on anything.

My comment is not in support of loot boxes as I choose to not buy them. Just pointing out the title is inaccurate based on the information provided by the OP. BTW, Zos really has no reason to read this thread. They have professionals and experts keeping an eye on anything that may develop they need to deal with in this area. Amateur armchair experts are not the best sources for legal advice.

Actually, there's a few countries that've already implemented legal measures to combat loot box mechanics, Belgium being one, and Netherlands having restricted several games that actually violate their current gambling laws. Many countries including the UK keeping their eye on the issue, the NHS scolding loot boxes is no small thing, while it's not a law, if medical studies support that loot boxes are unhealthy, that'll be brought up to government by gambling awareness associations.

"Cracking down" is an extreme way to put it, imo the changes aren't happening soon enough, however the issue has been raised by many countries, some, like I said have already taken action. I was hoping this would light a fire under ZOS' arses. Being contrary about the small technicalities on a suggestion post isn't helping anyone, not even yourself if you are against the crates.

edit: i fixed the title and first sentence in the interest of accuracy

Anotherone773 · January 2020

RGD wrote: »

latest being the UK, the NHS saying they're unhealthy, and can lead to gambling addictions and such.

Alcohol is also unhealthy, but pubs are everywhere and unless your pregnant, under age, or have a medical issue that prevents you from drinking, you are looked at suspiciously for not consuming alcohol.

That particular article got me thinking, is it time to get rid of Crown Crates in favour of some less egregious and predatory systems for cool stuff?

Its not predatory. People need to learn to take responsibility for themselves and stop expecting a nanny state to coddle and care for them and shield them from things that might harm them.

Now, I predict that there'll be some people who'll say things like "lol, crown crates are optional, so if you don't like 'em, don't buy 'em!" - obviously that's the case, but for a lot of people, cosmetics are a large part of video games, like, a huge part, and crown crates hold some of the nicest cosmetics in the game. It's CRYSTAL CLEAR that 99% of the Crown Store item developers time is spent on upcoming content for Crown Crates. This sucks because the Crown Crate (loot box) system is predatory and exploitative of players who value cosmetics in games by stuffing the cool stuff behind a steep price and unbelievable RNG chances. Now, to those who say they're optional, yes they are, but you can agree that ZOS is fully capable of introducing the same cosmetics in a more consumer-friendly and generally less disgusting way.

So crown crates are predatory because they have items in them some people desire? Really? Wow.

I find crown crates to be very consumer friendly. i even grab a few every once in a great while. I also go to the casino every once in a while and never spend more than i want too and never have gamblers remorse. People who have problems with situations in which something is a gamble should stay away from those situations. However, the other 97% of the population( Here in the US, 3% of the population has a gambling problem.) should not have to suffer because 3% of the population is incapable of self control.

I think it is absolutely 100% cheeky for a small percentage of the population to expect a large percent of the population to cater to them because they lack self control and good judgement. I have to wonder if the same people play the lottery and then expect the "state" to give them a reward for playing?

There are probably quite a few ways to still monetize the stuff from crown crates successfully, but not be lame about the way it's done. First being obvious, just put them on the crown store as a direct purchase. Second, and probably will have people rolling their eyes at the suggestion of it, but a "Battle Pass" type system could be introduced. There's more than enough content placed in crown crates to fill a 100-tier pass with free and premium tiers. The challenges could be an easy thing, too; things like do certain dungeons, repeatable quests, crafting writs, kill certain amounts or types of enemies, dolmens, events, world bosses, the possibilities are quite endless. This way the items will be monetizable via the premium pass and buying tiers, and it'll incentivize certain activities for the players to return to. There's a few basic ways to replace Crown Crates that I, and I imagine plenty of players would be happy to engage in.

They have a system that works, it is crown crates. If they have to go to a system in which they have to have set prices for items, they will either stop selling those items or, more likely, have to sell far more desirable items like actual pay 2 win items.

The idea behind crown crates or any type of "gambling" is that you only spend what you can afford to lose. If you ( general)are spending more than you can afford to lose trying to win some pixels, that is not our( the communities) problem. Why should we be punished for your(general) irresponsibility and inability to make adult decisions?

I doubt anyone from ZOS will read this, let alone crown crates ever disappearing, the best chance of that happening would be for as many people as possible to stop buying them, or many countries outlawing loot box-type mechanics in video games. It's something I hope will happen one day, because I like the stuff in the crates, and I'm happy to purchase them and support the game, but I will not buy the CHANCE to get something.

And suddenly the motive is made clear. " I want X but i dont like the price of X, so i want the entire system to be changed so i can acquire X on my terms" That is not the way the world works.

And you are right crown crates will probably not ever go away. In the US gambling is becoming legal in far more places, not the other way around. Every bar in my state has legal gambling machines in it, something it didnt have 10 years ago. The most you are going to get here in the states is that ZOS is forced to disclose odds of winning each prize, which is something they should have to do.

Bradyfjord · January 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

The most you are going to get here in the states is that ZOS is forced to disclose odds of winning each prize, which is something they should have to do.

I would love it if they put in the %chance of each item. I think I've bought maybe 30 crates since launch. Crown crates, like so many other things, should be considered a luxury.

@RGD There are many terrible things going on in the world, and this is the cause you choose to fight for?

RGD · January 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I find crown crates to be very consumer friendly.

Excuse you? What? consumer friendly in what way? literally, I'm lost. How is paying to MAYBE, probably NOT getting something consumer friendly in literally any way? That statement has damaged my brain.

I would systemically reply to each point you made but I don't really feel like it, I found most points to be quite ridiculous. I'll reply to a few highlights, though.

Loot boxes are predatory, they are absolutely predatory. They're literally: Here's cool item X that you want, pay for 1 tiny chance to get item X, if that doesn't work, you can always keep paying to get said item, and even if you pay us an ridiculous amount of money, there's still a chance you won't get it. Versus: Pay X amount of money for item. People don't need to be nanny'd, but there are people more mentally prone to engage in certain activities, like gambling, even if they aren't in the position to, the human mind is a complex thing. Kids do need to be nanny'd though, and they are the most vulnerable to monetisation schemes like this.

So what if my motive is I would like to pay for the 100% chance to get something, even if it might be a steep price. How is that not a sensible way to think? I'm not saying "cool stuff should be free!1!" I'd just not like to waste my money. I'm not "paying what I can afford to lose" - I pay for what I know I will receive, like most people, I don't buy crown crates for that reason. I don't understand how simply asking to pay for an item rather than asking to pay for the tiny chance of getting an item is unreasonable in any way.

RGD · January 2020

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

The most you are going to get here in the states is that ZOS is forced to disclose odds of winning each prize, which is something they should have to do.

I would love it if they put in the %chance of each item. I think I've bought maybe 30 crates since launch. Crown crates, like so many other things, should be considered a luxury.

@RGD There are many terrible things going on in the world, and this is the cause you choose to fight for?

How is paying for the chance of getting something a luxury? if you get something you want, i.e: a radient apex reward, the more coveted items, which is so unbelievably small a chance, you feel pretty good. The more likely outcome, you pay money and get complete garbage water, and feel awful.

How is this fighting? I made a simple suggestion post on a forum which took me very little time out of my day, I'm not parading the streets with a flag and a loudspeaker handing out flyers. Such an exaggeration, I'm not trying to be the Che Guevara of ESO.

kargen27 · January 2020

By legal definition crown crates are not gambling. You are guaranteed something for your purchase. They are no more predatory than Topp's Baseball cards. They are similar to the way collector cards work. You buy a package knowing what the minimum amount of cards you will be. It is up to you to decide is it worth the price to get that one card you are looking for.

Where they differ is with cards people can sell the contents of the package for whatever price someone else thinks they are worth. So eventually you could buy the card from someone else. With the crates you can get gems but the price is set and the items more limited.

I still think it is up to we the people to be responsible for our own actions but would be nice if everything that can be found in the crates would also eventually be available with the gems. That way you at least know a maximum price and anything less than that price is gravy.

Kittytravel · January 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

However, the other 97% of the population( Here in the US, 3% of the population has a gambling problem.) should not have to suffer because 3% of the population is incapable of self control.

More out of my love for statistics and their egregious manipulation than out of any care for the thread I'd just like to point out that many surveys don't consider online games such as ESO and many others in their "gambling addiction" statistics rather they only count what is legally defined as gambling.
So 3% is really hard to prove when we they likely only count 10% of actual gambling occurring in the US.
(Crown Crates require to you to pay money for a chance at something; that's defined under gambling.)

With that said idc what they do with Crown Crates I just know I don't buy them and probably never will. I don't personally like rigged systems to begin with and theirs is pretty rigged.

RGD · January 2020

kargen27 wrote: »

By legal definition crown crates are not gambling. You are guaranteed something for your purchase. They are no more predatory than Topp's Baseball cards. They are similar to the way collector cards work. You buy a package knowing what the minimum amount of cards you will be. It is up to you to decide is it worth the price to get that one card you are looking for.

Where they differ is with cards people can sell the contents of the package for whatever price someone else thinks they are worth. So eventually you could buy the card from someone else. With the crates you can get gems but the price is set and the items more limited.

I still think it is up to we the people to be responsible for our own actions but would be nice if everything that can be found in the crates would also eventually be available with the gems. That way you at least know a maximum price and anything less than that price is gravy.

Radiant Apex rewards aren't available for gems. I would prefer if they were, even if they were like 1000 or 1200 gems. Thus at LEAST eventually the more coveted items would be attainable provided you put in money to eventually save up the gems. While I dislike crown crates, and prefer they were replaced with something more consumer friendly overall, ZOS making sure absolutely everything in the crates is definitely attainable isn't a bad idea, although they probably won't.

FierceSam · January 2020

I would definitely spend more money on cool things in the Crown Store if I could

Choose exactly what I want to buy, and

Knew exactly what it would cost

I will never spend money on the ‘chance’ to buy something, because that is a cheat’s way of trying to sell you something. Taking my money and giving me *** in return.

So every time I see something nice in the crates, it just reminds me that ZOS are less interested in their players and more interested in exploiting them.

RGD · January 2020

Kittytravel wrote: »

With that said idc what they do with Crown Crates I just know I don't buy them and probably never will. I don't personally like rigged systems to begin with and theirs is pretty rigged.

Exactly! I'm kind of surprised that people find the idea of: pay X = receive item rather than pay X = X% chance to receive item unreasonable. How is trying to be somewhat financially responsible a bad thing? Why is playing with chance better than either paying for something, or putting in work to get something.

FierceSam · January 2020

kargen27 wrote: »

I still think it is up to we the people to be responsible for our own actions but would be nice if everything that can be found in the crates would also eventually be available with the gems. That way you at least know a maximum price and anything less than that price is gravy.

Dude you have no idea how much a gem is in real money.

Gems are a fake currency buried behind an RNG wall and a totally abstract conversion system. There is no correlation between the price of a crate and the number of gems you will get from it. So you have no idea how much that 600 gem horse has cost you (other than it’s offensively expensive).

The whole point of gems as a currency is to confuse and delude players so they have no idea how much real money they are spending.

You are right, players should be responsible for their decisions, but equally ZOS should not be going out of their way to deliberately hide the cost of items.

TheShadowScout · January 2020

RGD wrote: »

As many countries are debating lootbox legality, how about getting rid of or replacing Crown Crates?

The powers that be will make that decision when those discussions get to a point that has legal implications.
As in, they will keep doing crowncrates to make more profit until they see a danger of gerring huge fines, then read the new laws carefully and adjust their business to stay -just- within the new legel guidelines.

bmnoble wrote: »

Just put everything up in the crown store all year round, scrap GEMS, let people buy what they want.

That would be my preference.
Oh, sure, keep the events and seasonal stuff - with a "half price for a limited time" mechanic, but keep -everything- in there all the time at normal prices, so people can see and buy.
But eh.
Not expecting them to go with a solution that convenient...

Bradyfjord · January 2020

@RGD Claim: ESO practices are predatory.

Me: Predatory practices are actions taken with the intent to harm. ZOS has not attempted to harm anyone. It's a tragedy when people won't take responsibility for their own actions.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Police-and-army-used-to-solve-the-problem-of-Chinese-farmers-15369.html

This may help you to understand what I consider predatory, even if you still choose to disagree with me. This is a link to a news article about how Chinese treat their people. Makes you realize why the once free people of Hong Kong responded to Chinese rule they way they have.

@RGD Claim: Crown Crates only allow a chance to have something.

Me: Actually, people who purchase Crown Crates receive something every time. Sometimes they even get two items if they're lucky. The risk is that you may not get the thing you wanted, but I think you know that. To me it seems you just didn't want to come out and say it.

@RGD Claim: I'm just making a simple suggestion.

Me: You're making claims, (price too high, crates take all developer time, predatory and exploitative behavior) and then saying that you wanted something other than what was on offer. It's okay to want something, but it is disingenuous to act like it's all just a 'suggestion'.

All that being said, I am sad when people get hurt. If the game is becoming a problem, then the people who are being harmed from a lack of self control should seek out help.

And parents that let their kids get addicted to gambling this way should probably receive counseling as well. And they need to pay for it, not me or society.

Anotherone773 · January 2020

RGD wrote: »

Excuse you? What? consumer friendly in what way? literally, I'm lost. How is paying to MAYBE, probably NOT getting something consumer friendly in literally any way? That statement has damaged my brain.

When you open a crown crate you are guaranteed 4 items. It may not be the items you want, but its on you to come to terms with your going to get at least 4 of the lowest tier items. You MIGHT get a higher tier item. You always win, it is not ZOS's fault if you want your win to always be the "jackpot".

I would systemically reply to each point you made but I don't really feel like it, I found most points to be quite ridiculous.

I found your entire post to be ridiculous and questioned if you were trolling or not. I figured probably not when i read the last bit.

Loot boxes are predatory, they are absolutely predatory.

That is your opinion, not a fact.

They're literally: Here's cool item X that you want, pay for 1 tiny chance to get item X, if that doesn't work, you can always keep paying to get said item, and even if you pay us an ridiculous amount of money, there's still a chance you won't get it.

Yep that is how gambling works. It doesnt work as well if they offer you stuff that you dont want. You have to decide if its worth it to YOU to try to win that item. You dont get to make that decision for everyone else.

Versus: Pay X amount of money for item. People don't need to be nanny'd, but there are people more mentally prone to engage in certain activities, like gambling, even if they aren't in the position to, the human mind is a complex thing.

Then they should probably stay away from loot crates, casinos, and anywhere that sells lottery tickets. But my entire world should NOT be flipped on its head to accommodate someone else's problems.

Kids do need to be nanny'd though, and they are the most vulnerable to monetisation schemes like this.

They have parents, who should be parenting.

So what if my motive is I would like to pay for the 100% chance to get something, even if it might be a steep price. How is that not a sensible way to think? I'm not saying "cool stuff should be free!1!" I'd just not like to waste my money. I'm not "paying what I can afford to lose" - I pay for what I know I will receive, like most people, I don't buy crown crates for that reason. I don't understand how simply asking to pay for an item rather than asking to pay for the tiny chance of getting an item is unreasonable in any way.

Because that is not how the system is designed. You are asking to change the rules so they suit YOU. The system is a risk/reward system. You are not willing to take the risk, therefore you should not get the reward, no?

Its like wanting a stock investors income but wanting it as wages, not returns on high risk stocks. You want the reward without the risk. You see a system in which people who are willing to risk for desirable reward as predatory. Instead you want it to be a " If i do X, i get Y" You are actually trying to change something that is capitalistic in nature to something that is socialistic in nature.

If you want the reward, take the risk. Or accept that you wont get the reward because you didnt risk it.

Salix_alba · January 2020

I think the games age rating makes this a moot point and also invalidates the kids will still play it one as well

RGD · January 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

But my entire world should NOT be flipped on its head to accommodate someone else's problems.

Your ENTIRE WORLD? so gambling is your entire world? crown crates not existing would flip your whole existance upside-down? if that's true... I feel sorry for you.

You are actually trying to change something that is capitalistic in nature to something that is socialistic in nature.

So trying to make something better for more people is worse for than trying to make something good for the few? okay. cool.

If you want the reward, take the risk. Or accept that you wont get the reward because you didnt risk it.

When coming to things I either want to trade currency for it and get it, or do the work to get it. Why does risk have to be involved? The risk shouldn't be in the equation when it comes to buying goods, online or otherwise. They could easily implement a system to either earn the items they'd otherwise have in crates, or buy them outright and I GUARANTEE the majority of players would be happier for it, and provided they monitise it, say in a battle pass format, they ZOS would benefit from it, too. It's still capitalism, it's just slightly more consumer friendly, fair, and fun.

As for your "thought this was trolling" - I could honestly say the same for you. I understand that gambling can be a fun activity, especially for those financially capable of doing so, but not for everyone, especially not in video games. I have a hard time understanding someone would so adamantly defend such a monetisation system through little gain of their own. Unless you somehow bought like 15 crown crates and got one of the Radiant Apex rewards on the first try then you rolled another in your second crate, I don't see how the system does right by you in any way.

Curious_Death · January 2020

I dont care anymore about Crown Crates... i remember times... when ZOS was giving 3-5 crates... for FREE, thoose crates was ORIGINAL CRATES! i got Fire Attronah skin! a frost bear (APEX)!... nowdays ... free crates re ***... so i stopped also getting original ones... company doesnt care about free crates... so players should not care about original ones.

edit:
also... why no1 thinks that good crates drop keep players in game! i love my fire attro skin... and other good things i got from it... which bring me back to Tamriel. - and when i was happy getting free gifts... and when servers wasnt down for HOURS on events... i was paying ESO+ and that was my best spended moneys! nowdays i would give some1 random these moneys than buying eso+.

RGD · January 2020

Bradyfjord wrote: »

@RGD Claim: ESO practices are predatory.

Me: Predatory practices are actions taken with the intent to harm. ZOS has not attempted to harm anyone. It's a tragedy when people won't take responsibility for their own actions.

@RGD Claim: Crown Crates only allow a chance to have something.

Me: Actually, people who purchase Crown Crates receive something every time. Sometimes they even get two items if they're lucky. The risk is that you may not get the thing you wanted, but I think you know that. To me it seems you just didn't want to come out and say it.

@RGD Claim: I'm just making a simple suggestion.

Me: You're making claims, (price too high, crates take all developer time, predatory and exploitative behavior) and then saying that you wanted something other than what was on offer. It's okay to want something, but it is disingenuous to act like it's all just a 'suggestion'.

1. Loot boxes can definitely be harmful, mentally and financially. Especially to those extremely vulnerable. In a perfect world everyone would recognise their problem, get help and never succumb to their addiction, but that's not the world we live in. Even if crates aren't detrimental, they are definitely more controversial and harmful than allowing to buy digital goods outright, or earn them through actual effort.

2. That argument is terrible. Legit, awful. You KNOW what you get in the vast majority of boxes, as the highest percentage chance dictates, complete garbage. Fluff and filler items like potions and such, then bland cosmetics with such a high chance to be duplicates considering how common they are. This is how it's rigged against the buyer, they give you something, even if it's useless to say "Hey! look! it's not gambling, we're giving you something for your money!" knowing damn well no one wants a flower face tattoo 10 times over.

3. It is a suggestion, whether I want it or not. I'm suggesting they make a more widely consumer-friendly system in which to earn or purchase direct things people want in a video game. Rather than a glorified slot machine, oh, I forgot, it's not casino level gambling because you got 10 stamina potions and a dog that looks like it's out of a PS2 game.
3.5. The claims aren't unreasonable. The prices are pretty high considering it's a chance at something decent rather than buying it, and the price gets higher the more you make sure you get the item you want. I said the crates likely take a lot of the time from the people who make items for the crown store, there's tons of items, many of which are new model and texture assets with unique features attached. As for the predatory claim, see point 1.

Hallothiel · January 2020

I agree with the OP.

Just do not see the need for this type of system in a game. It is just predatory marketing, and actually counter-productive as a large number of players are unhappy with it, for all the reasons mentioned in posts above.

Those that are in favour - please point out one positive thing about these crates & how they are implemented.

If the items in the crates were in the Crown store, I would spend a lot more money in this game. As it is, they are rarely, if ever, available, and so Zos loses $ as I am not buying crates to convert rubbish to gems to get those items.

Perhaps if the items were available in the store as well as the crates, then those that do not like to gamble (and it is gambling) can buy what they like (a very capitalist thing) and those that like to chance it can buy the crates.

Best of both worlds then, surely?

TelvanniWizard · January 2020

bmnoble wrote: »

Just put everything up in the crown store all year round, scrap GEMS, let people buy what they want.

This. Please.

RGD · January 2020

Hallothiel wrote: »

Those that are in favour - please point out one positive thing about these crates & how they are implemented.

Perhaps if the items were available in the store as well as the crates, then those that do not like to gamble (and it is gambling) can buy what they like (a very capitalist thing) and those that like to chance it can buy the crates.

Best of both worlds then, surely?

Couldn't agree more. Please, for everyone who's for the Crates, explain exactly why you think they should stay and why you think purchasing outright or earning items shouldn't be a thing.

I guarantee even the people who like the crates would buy the items outright if they were available alongside crates. It's the financially responsible thing to do, afterall.

Nemesis7884 · January 2020

stupid idea...now a small amount of players finance a large portion of the game....what do you think will happen? they obviously will replace the revenues with other systems that will most likely target a broader player base which will probably result in fewer players overall...everyone looses

RGD · January 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

stupid idea...now a small amount of players finance a large portion of the game....what do you think will happen? they obviously will replace the revenues with other systems that will most likely target a broader player base which will probably result in fewer players overall...everyone looses

Waitwaitwait. So replacing a gambling system with a work/reward or straight-up buying system would target a broader player base and make the game lose players? what???

How would a system providing cool rewards for people who pay/put in work, incentivizing various types of content result in less players playing the game? I'm pretty sure the only people contributing a large amount of money for the crates are the very small amount of players who have a large amount of expendable income. I would imagine a slightly bigger amount of people who buy between 4-15 crates. Then there are others who spend their ESO+ crowns on crates and only those crowns.

How would providing way more players the surefire way to buy cool cosmetics, or provide everyone with a pass system to earn it be a bad thing? I guarantee more people would pay, and it would likely equal or be more profitable than the crates.

Hallothiel · January 2020

Not stupid - as has been pointed out, if these items were available in the Crown Store, people would spend money there.

wolfbone · January 2020

crown crates are just a fancy name for loot boxes. it's nothing but gambling in the hope you'll either get what you want, or enough crown gems to get what you want. it's a highly screwed up system, In my time using crown crates, I've only ever gotten 2 mounts, and considering you cant just buy the mounts from the crown store, it's a money grabbing fancy name for gambling.

redlink1979 · January 2020

The best way to protest against crate's system is not to buy them... Companies continue with this "sales system" because there's people out there buying them.

IRL what happens to a product, any kind of product, when the intended target market doesn't buy/shows interest in it? Discontinuation of production in a matter of time: when the expected profit isn't achievable the product will cease to be produced with intention to sale.

I agree with all the people above who says it would be a lot better if ZOS just put the crate's items in the Crown Store without these "bad luck" roulette: I'm sure a lot more people would buy the items. I'd.

Q - Positive aspect of crates? A - Same positive aspect as going to a casino to gamble n y'all know how casinos work.

Contaminate · January 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

stupid idea...now a small amount of players finance a large portion of the game....what do you think will happen? they obviously will replace the revenues with other systems that will most likely target a broader player base which will probably result in fewer players overall...everyone looses

Imagine claiming it’s better to have a handful of whales gambling to fund the game instead of letting everyone purchase the items they want for a clear price.

If items weren’t “limited time” and “RNG only” then people would buy them. A shtton of people would buy them. Only shty and scummy companies depend on obfuscating costs behind gambling to turn a profit.

wolfbone · January 2020

bmnoble wrote: »

Just put everything up in the crown store all year round, scrap GEMS, let people buy what they want.

exactly this