Make PvP areas that PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE

ArchMikem · January 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

I used to be straight PvE once. Steadily began PvPing. My Main is a Prefect now. I still hate it, but its the only thing left to do between content updates.

I play other games to work on my backlog, between content updates. No reason to force myself to do something I don't enjoy.

(I ground my way up to rank 8 or 9 in pre-Arena WoW. Took a couple excursions into the Dark Zone in Division 1. Did a couple rounds in Secret Worlds. Etc. Never again. Don't do CoD/Overwatch/shooters, or MOBAs, or online CCGs, either. Only 'competitive' thing I do is tabletop boardgames, with a regular group of friends.)

Yeah, now that I have a beefy PC I have some games ready for me to get into. Been playing through Starcraft 2 again and finishing Black Mesa is on the to do list now that they've released the Xen levels. Also super stoked for the Command & Conquer remasters.

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2020

What if these choke points or PVP areas in PVE zones yielded no rewards or AP at all? Forgive my naivety, but would this stop ganking and farming?

Rave the Histborn · January 2020

The low population of IC for years before they gave it away, and the overhaul they did to make it more PvE friendly is proof enough of it's failure at engaging PvE players. Giving it away for free was not enough to reverse it either. The only people that really use IC is PvPers. It's a wasteland for anyone else and has been for years. If it had worked, they would not have made those changes.

It was still more of a success then Murkmire was from the begining of it's life. IC still has a population, Murkmire, Gold Coast, Hew's Bane, and Clockwork City do not. If population is your only marker for success then the PVE portion of the game is a failure because none of those DLCs have any lasting population. I mean look at the prices for motifs from there, no one is using those areas anymore.

Irrelevant. Some people don't have them because they are new. Others aren't in them because they don't enjoy them. You can't just offer a nonexistent guildmate as a solution for a new player that doesn't have or yet want a guild.

This is an MULTIPLAYER game. If you want to play solo that's your own choice but those people are irrelevant to the conversation. You can join a guild very easily whether you are new or not and there's all kinda of active guilds recruiting new players. They exist and are there the only way you don't have a guild is if you choose not to have one.

When you throw new players into PvP, you must take into account the experience of players without guilds, gear, or friends. Because that is a typical place to be in for new players. Griefing these types of players have killed plenty of MMOs because of this same stupid attitude. Moving into a new category of player does nothing to alleviate the problems of people not in that category, and if your game is to be a success there must always be people in that category.

If you go into PVP you are a PVPer. You aren't special because you decide to go into PVP as a new player. That's also not typical at all for new players, most join a game like this with friends or join guilds to get friends because MMOs are daunting and have a lot going on in them. Most players that go without a guild most likely have enough experience in MMOs that they know what they're doing. It is no different from going into a PVE dungeon with no gear and no rotation and no experieince. You are going to die a lot and your team is going to kick you or grief you.

Your attitude here is precisely why most games that force PvP have failed to integrate into the the user experience successfully. And many of the ones that are successful make an effort to prevent that situation from occuring by targeting the user experience of those players.

Saying just don't be that kind of player! Is not a solution. Everyone is that kind of player at first.

I've still yet to have a game that forces PvP name dropped. There's apparently so many but no one can give me an example of a specific one, there's just lots that have failed cuz of it. Your attitude is why people are afraid to get into PVP in the first place, everyone is a victim, no one has agency of their own, gear for PVE is easy but gearing for PVP is suddenly some task in a new language.

Don't be a quitter is a solution. How many things are people that naturally good at in real life? Imagine if we just changed PVP to basketball. Do you expect to be good at basketball right from the start or do you have to get onto the court and practice like everyone else? Everyone starts out bad just like everything else but if you're not willing to practice then you're never going to get better. People in this thread are saying you're never going to be Michael Jordan so don't even buy a basketball and forcing me to play basketball in gym class in school is like a crime.

People below CP 160 cannot make max level gear and cannot compete in those campaigns. People with low CP are not going to be able to do content that gets them gear that is competitive even if they are 160. Even in no cp, CP affects your ability to compete. Forcing players who aren't able to compete yet into competition is just making them fodder. It is not simple nor is it quick to solve those either. It can take months for someone to gear themselves to be able to start competiting.

No lol. You can still compete because pvp is about skill not gear. That is why ZOS has it set up the way it does. You're able to compete, the only way you can't is because you keep saying you can't. It is simple, it is quick, and easy to equip a simple pvp build with no guild, no friends, and very little gold.

Meanwhile you can do some of the earliest PvE content completely naked with absolutely no detriment.

These are legitimate complaints. You just reject anything inconvenient to your argument.

Because of scaling which also is part of PVP and you're talking about overland content. Not really the same stuff to compare it to.

Nobody enters that content before they feel they are ready, and it is impossible to force them into a situation where they have to do it.

ZOS has had to change the way group finder works to prevent people from doing that. You can search the forums on the topic because it's such a big problem.

This argument is invalid. When you force someone into an experience, you MUST care about the play experience of someone who is inexperienced and unprepared. Because they don't have a choice to enter it when they have experience and have prepared.

How do you account for the inexperience of an unprepared person?

Yes it has. And you've called those lies. And failed to address the concerns by saying eventually they'll have gear, so who cares about the ungeared? Which does not address the problems if the ungeared.

Gear is easy to come by, to enter pvp you need to be level 10 and gear is explained in detail at this point. If you don't understand it that's on you and they can/will get geared so being "ungeared" isn't really a problem. Do you know how many people go into pvp "ungeared" lots. The only person stopping you from gearing is you, like buy it, find a crafter, there's lots of easy ways to get it.

Saying they'll get better does nothing to address the problems of the unskilled.

LOL then how do the unskilled ever get skilled?????? If you don't play PVP how do you get good at pvp? If you don't practice your rotation how do you get good at dps? If you don't practice catching a ball how do you get good at baseball? How do you ever get skilled if you don't practice the skill you need to be better at?

If I am hungry and about to pass out in the middle of a presentation, that I have a dinner reservation the next day doesn't feed me or prevent me from passing out in the middle if the presentation.

But I mean wouldn't that be your own fault for being that hungry in the first place? Wouldn't it be your fault for not being prepared and eating before the presentation? Even if you were forced into a presentation, isn't it still on you to be prepared for your own base welfare in the first place?

Likewise eventually gaining gear, experience, guildmates, and friends does nothing to address the problems of people who don't have those things. Which is also very common for new players.

So wouldn't it be on them then to get gear, gain experience, join guilds, and make friends? Everyone starts with no friends and with no guilds and gear. What you do after that is up to you.

Your "solutions" to how bad it would be for new players is for them to stop being new. That does and means nothing.

No, those are just answers to the reasons why people can't pvp. No one's ever asked my solution.

If you wanted my solution, at lvl 10 you get a quest to be "drafted" into the war. You join cyrodiil and get an intro PVP quest where you have to siege an instanced PVP keep with a squad of 5 alliance squad mates and you learn how to use basic siege items. You only fight NPC enemies but they are powerful as they are in Cyrodiil so you get used to that. After you take the keep you then have to take the resources with your group. After that quest you defend an instanced sieged keep against scripted waves of NPCs to teach you the uses of defensive siege and how to repair keeps.

You should be taught the mechanics of PVP so you know what your objectives are because that kind of experience is useful. The rest of the experience you gain through practicing PVP just like anything else in life. Practice makes perfect.

Sylvermynx · January 2020

@Rave the Histborn - I really think you should make your own game. I'm quite sure that people I know (and have known for 15 years now) would really love what you ideate. Those were the people I played on a WoW pvp server with, in a very dear friend's guild. They have now moved on from WoW, as it's turned into a "steaming pile" according to one of them, but they do seem to be interested in finding another home. They have no interest in TES however, for whatever reason.

Magenpie · January 2020

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Rave the Histborn - I really think you should make your own game. I'm quite sure that people I know (and have known for 15 years now) would really love what you ideate. Those were the people I played on a WoW pvp server with, in a very dear friend's guild. They have now moved on from WoW, as it's turned into a "steaming pile" according to one of them, but they do seem to be interested in finding another home. They have no interest in TES however, for whatever reason.

At risk of sounding witchy, I believe 'Age of Conan: Unchained' is looking for denizens.

Sylvermynx · January 2020

Magenpie wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Rave the Histborn - I really think you should make your own game. I'm quite sure that people I know (and have known for 15 years now) would really love what you ideate. Those were the people I played on a WoW pvp server with, in a very dear friend's guild. They have now moved on from WoW, as it's turned into a "steaming pile" according to one of them, but they do seem to be interested in finding another home. They have no interest in TES however, for whatever reason.

At risk of sounding witchy, I believe 'Age of Conan: Unchained' is looking for denizens.

I don't know about that one. They haven't mentioned it, and I don't know enough about other games to have a clue. My gaming focus these days is pretty narrow - there's only so much time left in my life (and I'm not willing to bet I'll still be alive if TES VI does release....) so I play what appeals. My pvp friends are much younger than me (well, even younger than my daughter - between daughter and my granddaughters in age), so I don't really know much about why they play one thing and not another. I know they love certain types of pvp games - and that WoW did not provide what they were looking for (even though they'd all played WoW since the very beginning).

Dusk_Coven · January 2020

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

What if these choke points or PVP areas in PVE zones yielded no rewards or AP at all? Forgive my naivety, but would this stop ganking and farming?

It takes just one person messing around in the location to make it non-viable for PvE because you are going through doors, talking to people, etcetera.

That said, the pointlessness of PvP there can just make PvP people not bother at all.
It'd be similar to the open-world PvP instances in SWTOR where there are no special rewards for PvP-ing there. They mirror the PvE instance, except it's open PvP by faction. And they are typically completely empty of anyone -- PvP-er or otherwise.
The only people who typically go there are guilds doing the special PvE content of killing Commanders to get Flagship Encryptions. And even then, not many guilds organize that at all though that might depend on the server. -- So again they are there only for a particular reward. And it's even a PvE reward, not PvP at all.

No reward for an activity = no one's gonna use it for whatever it was intended.

That said, there ARE people who go around killing all the npcs in Alinor. So there may very well still be a couple of people camping points. Just as sometimes there's the one person in the SWTOR PvP instance who's sitting stealthed for hours just waiting for a PvE person to quest in the zone (because it's so empty!), just to gank them.

Magenpie · January 2020

I don't know about that one. They haven't mentioned it, and I don't know enough about other games to have a clue. My gaming focus these days is pretty narrow - there's only so much time left in my life (and I'm not willing to bet I'll still be alive if TES VI does release....) so I play what appeals. My pvp friends are much younger than me (well, even younger than my daughter - between daughter and my granddaughters in age), so I don't really know much about why they play one thing and not another. I know they love certain types of pvp games - and that WoW did not provide what they were looking for (even though they'd all played WoW since the very beginning).

Really sorry, I did quoting all bad - I meant to respond to @Rave the Histborn only but somehow used your post as the source. Sorry about that. Confess I haven't made myself aware of your points, but will do now, if only out of politeness!

Edit: for so many bloody 'points!!'

Sylvermynx · January 2020

Magenpie wrote: »

I don't know about that one. They haven't mentioned it, and I don't know enough about other games to have a clue. My gaming focus these days is pretty narrow - there's only so much time left in my life (and I'm not willing to bet I'll still be alive if TES VI does release....) so I play what appeals. My pvp friends are much younger than me (well, even younger than my daughter - between daughter and my granddaughters in age), so I don't really know much about why they play one thing and not another. I know they love certain types of pvp games - and that WoW did not provide what they were looking for (even though they'd all played WoW since the very beginning).

Really sorry, I did quoting all bad - I meant to respond to @Rave the Histborn only but somehow used your post as the source. Sorry about that. Confess I haven't made myself aware of your points, but will do now, if only out of politeness!

Edit: for so many bloody 'points!!'

Oh, not to worry friend! The forum software seems to get a bit wonky as threads go on for many pages. Sometimes I can do my best (knowing vanilla forum software from old.... and being decidedly unimpressed) to micromanage the quoting, and STILL it's not right. It's actually kind of a joke to me now, anyway - because at some point someone is going to quote someone, and.... no one will know who was quoting, who was supposed to be quoted....

Or what the whole point was anyway!

doomette · January 2020

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

What if these choke points or PVP areas in PVE zones yielded no rewards or AP at all? Forgive my naivety, but would this stop ganking and farming?

I was playing through the IC main story on a lowbie, quite late at night on a dead campaign. I had one particular maxed out player gank me repeatedly during the part of the quest line where you defend the garrison’s doors. I wasn’t a complete PVP newb, and was geared in impen and all that, but I didn’t stand a chance. Each time I’d roll my eyes, deposit any TV I had left (at most like 3, but usually 0), and try again. Rinse and repeat about six or seven times (I’m stubborn). This person was getting negligible amount of TV from me, if any. But if all the teabagging was any indication, they were having a graaaaand time. They could have gotten way more TV doing pretty much anything else with their time and I’m pretty sure they knew that, but apparently ganking me repeatedly for close to zero rewards was much more fun.

*shrugs* But oh well, I knew going in to expect these things and it was completely voluntary and not a requirement to advance my game at the very start (ahem).

TLDR ganking lowbies is enough of a reward for some. And that’s precisely what would happen.

madman65 · January 2020

The day someone forces me to do PVP to complete a quest or PVE will be the day I WILL QUIT!!!

spartaxoxo · January 2020

"It was still more of a success then Murkmire was from the begining of it's life."

I did not cite population alone. Murkmire did cause anything to have to be retooled, IC did. Because PvEers found it to be an unpleasant experience. IC is a failure because it's goal was not met, which was to bring the two groups together as an introduction to pvp. Murkmire accomplished what it was supposed to accomplish.

This is an MULTIPLAYER game

A multiplayer game that markets itself as solo player friendly, and in fact continues to put out solo content. Those people are not irrelevant. They are the exact people that you're trying to force PVP on, so they are the most important for consideration. People who are already geared are the ones irrelevant. They already PVP unless they don't like it.

LOL then how do the unskilled ever get skilled??????

They play. But that does mean that their experience until that point is unimportant. Most PvP games put in things to make those experiences better. But the fact that you don't want to even contemplate an actual solution besides "lol git gud" shows that you're not actually interested in this idea to get new people into PVP. Otherwise you'd care about that experience. Nah, you only care about already established people. Like OP, you probably only want to grief.

But I mean wouldn't that be your own fault for being that hungry in the first place?

Giving a person about to pass out (which btw can happen to hypoglycemia sufferers through no fault of their own) a snack and a few minutes break is a solution to that problem.

Again. You're not providing solutions or addressing concerns.

So wouldn't it be on them then to get gear, gain experience, join guilds, and make friends?

No. It's on the development team to ensure that they have a good experience without those things, so that they want to get them instead of uninstalling. As the people pushing for this, it's on you to come with actual, direct solutions to making the game better for those people. If you can't do that, then you aren't addressing ***.

Daimonion82 · January 2020

@Rave the Histborn
One thing, please... Check your information before you post something. Last week I've sold Minotaur chests motif for really nice price. Apostle or Dead Water aren't extremaly cheap too. So don't postpone DLC zones, the're making good. Quite opposite to IC - I really doubt devs would make it permanently free (it's only one permanently free DLC right now) without a reason.

Ye_Olde_Crowe · January 2020

doomette wrote: »

I was playing through the IC main story on a lowbie, quite late at night on a dead campaign. I had one particular maxed out player gank me repeatedly during the part of the quest line where you defend the garrison’s doors.

Oh, I was really lucky to have an enemy player help me in that quest when I first arrived at that point!
I was a little bit afraid when I saw them charge towards me, but then they waved, despawned their pets and hit a Daedric aggressor instead. I did likewise, and we curb-stomped those nasty Daedra fighting side by side. Fun times

.

doomette · January 2020

Ye_Olde_Crowe wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I was playing through the IC main story on a lowbie, quite late at night on a dead campaign. I had one particular maxed out player gank me repeatedly during the part of the quest line where you defend the garrison’s doors.

Oh, I was really lucky to have an enemy player help me in that quest when I first arrived at that point!
I was a little bit afraid when I saw them charge towards me, but then they waved, despawned their pets and hit a Daedric aggressor instead. I did likewise, and we curb-stomped those nasty Daedra fighting side by side. Fun times .

I’ve had that happen on a couple of characters during the arena part, and those people are awesome. Though one time I belatedly realized I contributed to their death during the fight (was on a magcro, forgot those flame skulls bounced). And this after they sat by while their uncooperative alliance mate attacked me unsuccessfully between rounds. I felt bad so I retroactively recorded the fight, found the person’s gamertag, and send an apology note with some Dubious, Witchmothers, and a Psijic Ambrosia (they too were on a low level character).
I don’t begrudge those who kill me in IC while I’m doing the MQ (okay, except for that teabagging booger) but I man do I appreciate the ones who don’t actively impede my progress.

BackStabeth · January 2020

Ye_Olde_Crowe wrote: »

doomette wrote: »

I was playing through the IC main story on a lowbie, quite late at night on a dead campaign. I had one particular maxed out player gank me repeatedly during the part of the quest line where you defend the garrison’s doors.

Oh, I was really lucky to have an enemy player help me in that quest when I first arrived at that point!
I was a little bit afraid when I saw them charge towards me, but then they waved, despawned their pets and hit a Daedric aggressor instead. I did likewise, and we curb-stomped those nasty Daedra fighting side by side. Fun times .

There are definitely some very cool people who play this game, but you will sometimes also encounter the very worst of people as well.

It like reading about people who PvP, recognizing a target is not a challenge regardless if they are looking for kills to level up or not, and instead of taking advantage of the situation, helping instead. That is a true measure of the type of PvP player that person is.

When I first started playing PvP characters, there was a certain amount of what might be called honor, respect, even chivalry that was involved. The ones who engaged in PvP, were highly regarded because of this and not just for their prowess and skill it was how they treated other players. I know of no game that champions this type of player anymore, most PvP is like RUST, just nasty involving all those bad traits in others you just simply want to avoid. However, with that being said, there are people who do believe in treating others with respect and dignity, and will go out of their way to behave in an exemplary manor that are good examples for all of us to take note of. If you are that type of player, you have my respect.

That same type of PvP player will also, most likely, respect other people and understand they do not wish to engage in PvP. They will also understand that it has absolutely nothing to do with the learning curve, or gear, or getting good, or the time involved in doing so or being afraid of a challenge etc and so on. I also imagine that the type of player I am talking about would seek out those most similar in gear, ranking, experience to fight and not looking to create situations to force people not interested in PvP, to be forced into those situations, just so they can be "farmed'.

Thank you for posting that, after reading what some PvPers have posted here, and being involved in some of the discussion, I needed to hear something good. Some of the people who PvP and have posted here get it, they understand it cannot be forced and is something a person should be interested in doing. I thank you as well for expressing yourselves, you also have my respect.

Helgi_Skotina · January 2020

Of course it should be. PvP players are engaged into PvE. We can't even go to Cyro until level 10. We have to grind for gear. We have to PvE for the undaunted passives and psijic skill line. With every new chapter we have to change gear, but we want just to kill other player. I would like to see my new char directly in ciro or IC but ui have to grind level 50, weapon and class skill lines, undaunted passives and gear. Can i skip this?

Cryptical · January 2020

Lucious90 wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Forced PvP is not the answer, and this is coming from a person who only PvEs to skyshard hunt while im waiting for Cyro or BG ques. I mainly pvp.

I hate the fact that I and other pvpers have to pve to get some of our better gear (monster sets) and I hate the fact PvE has to PvP to level up skills. I have an idea that could bring them all together in a mutually benefitting relationship.

We could do this on a DLC, Give 3-4 zones a PvP area, make it well known that you are entering this zone and you will be open to attack from other players. Keep all quest givers, delves dolemen world bosses etc out of these zones. One safe zone camp for each alliance. If you're a pver who wants to try their hand at pvp there's an immediate risk/Reward there for you in helping your alliance capture zones for a buff in game. If not you'll benefit every now and again from a buff in game with no disruption from your normal routine

In these zones give objectives to capture 3-5 objectives depending on size of the zone. Let the factions wage their war on it, if an alliance manages to lock a zone down, you give the alliance a buff to farming, Overland content drop rates, Ap, Exp, CP, what ever you want for the entire alliance. Tie these zones to Cyrodiil, as you capture more zones, more seige weapons become available, better town guard NPCs etc. Could even tie them to scoring for the campaign make them worth it.

There are not enough players who are interested in PvP to populate the type of DLCs you are talking about. The investment in labor to profit return is not there so it will never be done. There just simply are not enough PvP population to justify any risk investment.

There is a question I have been meaning to ask somewhere, and I might as well ask here. Considering all the complaints about ESO PvP, how clunky it is, all the garbage you are forced to go through to get the gear so you can be effective, why do you want to PvP in this particular game?

Maybe, I know on Xbox NA CP Cyro is always locked during the evening and weekends, and always looks like the 7 day gets close to it as well. Id be curious to see the actual numbers. Plus at this point I'd rather put out solutions and ideas than just *** and moan on the forums for attention

Now I play this game because it does have a more engaging combat system it isnt auto attacks put all of your abilities on CD, rinse wash repeat. Theres attack weaving, Animation cancelling is more prevelant than in any other game ive played, dodge rolling and active blocking things that add to the chaos of combat. Regardless of some of the issues I have with the game, bad Cyro performance even off event, RNG gear bags, PvEing for monster sets for pvp, I always end up back at this game

The funniest thing about this post is the complete ignorance of the fact that PvP participation has been declining for years.

Once upon a time there were 2 or 3 of each campaign *type*.
3 of the 30 day campaigns. 3 of the 7 day. And so on. Each would be jammed with one alliance and a bar or 2 of the others. I'm talking TRIPLE the number of people populating the PvP servers during normal non-event time. Actually during events it was common to hear about multiple campaigns with two hour waiting lists. And slowly but surely they drained away.

The reasons I heard were varied, but they all resulted in the same effect: PvP stopped being fun.

Myself... This morning renewed my decision to Nope myself out of there once the event concluded. Last few days I've been going into the city to try and get some legion zero WITHOUT supporting the cash shop by buying event tickets, and every district just had opportunists that stomped anyone they came across. This morning, 630 am and zero bars of any team, I was working on killing a boss when a bunch of blues come along and roll over me. Commence the whole group celebrating the tough task of killing me boss+Xv1 by teaching me, then running off ignoring the boss.

They saw me tackling a boss, jumped me from behind, gloated my loss, and left the boss to reset. As usual, the drop rate for legion zero sucks so bad that the few bosses I've managed to loot have given me Jack squat, so every single minute I've spent in the city has not been fun but has been frustrating.

Nope. I have a few quests ready to turn in for event tickets to minimize my time in cyrodiil, and won't be bothering to go back to the city at all. The jerks who "live for my tears" can kiss my pale arse when they wander the empty PvP areas after the event ends.

And the PvP participation numbers will continue to decline.

MEBengalsFan2001 · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

The day this game starts forcing PvP on me is the day I will stop playing it. I have tried it, several times as the various modes of PvP in this game have been introduced, and it simply does not appeal to me at all.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

You might not like killing players but you have to do it in order to do pve.

I don't even understand what you mean. No, I don't "have to" do anything I don't like in this game, and that's how I want it.

Ok then why I have to do PvE in order to get gear for PvP stuff. I am literally forced to do pve content in order to compete in pvp. add to that getting undaunted passives.

I have already stated more than once that PVE and PVP should be 100% independent from each other. The issue with RPGMMOs is that most try to get PVP players into PVE and PVE players into PVP by having us cross over to the other side to improve our characters and to get max stats, skill points, gear, etc... The issue is this doesn't help the players out instead it causes a strife between the two groups and negatively impacts the overall gaming community.

Solution would be PVP has PVP only rewards this includes gear that can only be used in PVP.

PVE awards would be for PVE only, this includes gear.

Since devs want players to traverse the full game they leave the game as is with PVE crossing over into PVP and PVP crossing over into PVE.

JKorr · January 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Moving the goal posts has to apply to the same person in the same conversation. You can't shift goal posts by taking one conversation and applying it to another conversation, that's not how it works. A logical response would be able to engage questions or discourse not ignore it entirely because your opinion could be swayed.

They will post more crazy totally outside reality responses until everyone who reads what they posted will all come to the same conclusion.

Let me tell you about my tree house and the planes I fly. Which one was the lie?

I'm not trolling or baiting, your base premise is just wrong. ZOS has already forced PVE players to engage in PVP content. It's called the Imperial City and it was the first DLC and it was very successful. It helped fuel everything that came after it and the game did not become "sticks, twigs, and crickets." Revenue didn't dry up, people didn't lose jobs, jobs were created as the game became more popular and expanded after its first DLC.

I guess I'd better stop posting. The ninja ZOS rule enforcement squad missed my house somehow. No one showed up to kidnap my cat and force me to go to IC to get him back. No one was holding sharp pointy objects or loaded firearms to force me to go to IC. Wait.....ZOS already has all my information....so I guess that means they won't send out the "Make you play content you don't want to play" squad.

Out of 18 characters on one account, and 6 on a second account, exactly ONE, 1, singular, has ever gone to IC, and it was only to use the crafting stations. Only 4 times in total. Once the bis or min/max crafted sets like Redistributor went out of favor, I never had to set foot there again. And now with the attunable stations, I don't have to go there ever again.

KMarble · January 2020

BackStabeth wrote: »

Some people, no matter how logical your reasoning is, no matter if you are spot on correct, will deny truth.

I really like the phrase "moving the goal posts" because it describes so perfectly what one particular individual is attempting to do in this thread. Many times all you have to do is make good solid logical sense and allow the other person to respond away. Let them believe they are winning, don't engage any answer or question they pose that makes no logical sense or isn't correct. They will post more crazy totally outside reality responses until everyone who reads what they posted will all come to the same conclusion.

ZoS is never going to force PVE players to engage in PvP content, it would be like urinating in the wind. The game would be sticks, twigs and crickets. The revenue would dry up, people would lose their jobs and the game we love so much would fold up shop. It's happened so many times before that the developers of MMOs can easily benchmark against prior failures.

The developers of MMOs have to be much more intelligent about any changes they make if they want to stay competitive and capture a significant part of the video game entertainment industry. ZoS could not afford to make the mistake of mixing PVE with PvP. It's a pipe dream, not a pot pipe dream but a crack pipe dream.

I'm going to make a point of not engaging in these conversations that have to do with PvP mixing with PVE. Others have said it and they are spot on, it's never going to happen so this entire thread is a complete waste of logic and time. Let it die, the event will end in the near future and all the PvPers that are posting these fantasies will fade back to where they came from. It just seems to me like some people are role playing PvP fantasies on the forum. I don't really want to try and engage in intelligent discourse with people just expressing crazy fantasies, right?

Thank you for this. It made me realize I was lowering myself to their level. As the saying goes, there is no worse blind than those who refuse to see.

KMarble · January 2020

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

What if these choke points or PVP areas in PVE zones yielded no rewards or AP at all? Forgive my naivety, but would this stop ganking and farming?

No, it would not. IIRC, killing the same player over and over yields no AP, yet last year there were many reports of gankers killing the same player over and over (I was killed by the same NB twice in a roll as I was trying to interact with an NPC for a town quest).

KMarble · January 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

It was still more of a success then Murkmire was from the begining of it's life. IC still has a population, Murkmire, Gold Coast, Hew's Bane, and Clockwork City do not. If population is your only marker for success then the PVE portion of the game is a failure because none of those DLCs have any lasting population. I mean look at the prices for motifs from there, no one is using those areas anymore.

This statement is factually incorrect.
I got to CWC everyday and there is always people there. In fact, I've noticed an increase in the number of players there lately. I also go to Hew's Bane everyday and am ALWAYS coming across other players.
Everywhere I got in Murkmire, I see players and it doesn't take long to get a group together to fight a WB.
Although I don't go to the Gold Coast as often as the other places you mention, the wayshrine near the Brotherhood hideout is always busy with players coming and going, and there are always people going into the Arena (one of the WBs in there).

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

This is an MULTIPLAYER game. If you want to play solo that's your own choice but those people are irrelevant to the conversation. You can join a guild very easily whether you are new or not and there's all kinda of active guilds recruiting new players. They exist and are there the only way you don't have a guild is if you choose not to have one.

I don't know if you're as obtuse as you're coming across, have memory problems or purposely pretending to not understand what we're telling you.

A NEW PLAYER (new as in one who hasn't played the game for long) DOESN'T NECESSARILY KNOW THAT.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

If you go into PVP you are a PVPer. You aren't special because you decide to go into PVP as a new player. That's also not typical at all for new players, most join a game like this with friends or join guilds to get friends because MMOs are daunting and have a lot going on in them. Most players that go without a guild most likely have enough experience in MMOs that they know what they're doing. It is no different from going into a PVE dungeon with no gear and no rotation and no experieince. You are going to die a lot and your team is going to kick you or grief you.

Emphasis mine. You've proven time and time again in the thread that you have no idea what other people think. Heck, the way you've portrayed yourself tells me you don't care what other people think.

If YOU joined the game because of friends or joined a guild because you wanted friend, that is YOUR experience, and yours alone. That does NOT mean that other people joined the game or a guild due to the same reason.

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Don't be a quitter is a solution. How many things are people that naturally good at in real life? Imagine if we just changed PVP to basketball. Do you expect to be good at basketball right from the start or do you have to get onto the court and practice like everyone else? Everyone starts out bad just like everything else but if you're not willing to practice then you're never going to get better. People in this thread are saying you're never going to be Michael Jordan so don't even buy a basketball and forcing me to play basketball in gym class in school is like a crime.

Funny you would use basketball as an example, because I almost did in another reply to you.

I was pretty decent a basketball, if I may say so myself. I was very good at scoring and getting 3 points shots. According to your logic, I should had pursued that as my career, right?
I'm 4'11" (1.5m), so yeah...why should I try to force someone to take me into a team?

Edited to make my height right in metric. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to rub this imperial system out of my skin.

I'm not a quitter (and boy, I'm trying really hard to not use the most typed phrase on the internet). There is a difference between giving up without trying and letting it go because there are things we cannot overcome no matter how much we try.

Oh! BTW, I didn't say that forcing kids to do sports is a crime. Sadly it's mandatory to take PE in school and the reason I was forced to do it for as long as I did. Please try to not put words in my "mouth".

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

No lol. You can still compete because pvp is about skill not gear. That is why ZOS has it set up the way it does. You're able to compete, the only way you can't is because you keep saying you can't. It is simple, it is quick, and easy to equip a simple pvp build with no guild, no friends, and very little gold.

Bless you, you sweet summer child. Have you forgotten we were talking about new players. What is this skill you speak of?

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Because of scaling which also is part of PVP and you're talking about overland content. Not really the same stuff to compare it to.

Holy contradiction, Batman!

Dusk_Coven · January 2020

BackStabeth wrote: »

It like reading about people who PvP, recognizing a target is not a challenge regardless if they are looking for kills to level up or not, and instead of taking advantage of the situation, helping instead. That is a true measure of the type of PvP player that person is.

Even if you set aside the question of their character, there is also the sheer math of things.
If you want Tel Var, what point is there farming a person who's carrying 10 and you're gonna get 5? Go kill some daedra.
If you're farming AP and honestly can't find opponents or can't do objectives... what point is there farming 1 weak person over and over? Go repair some walls and doors.
Chances are, reward for time is way higher.

Rave the Histborn · January 2020

Sylvermynx wrote: »

@Rave the Histborn - I really think you should make your own game. I'm quite sure that people I know (and have known for 15 years now) would really love what you ideate. Those were the people I played on a WoW pvp server with, in a very dear friend's guild. They have now moved on from WoW, as it's turned into a "steaming pile" according to one of them, but they do seem to be interested in finding another home. They have no interest in TES however, for whatever reason.

I feel like that's a very a

spartaxoxo wrote: »

"It was still more of a success then Murkmire was from the begining of it's life."

I did not cite population alone. Murkmire did cause anything to have to be retooled, IC did. Because PvEers found it to be an unpleasant experience. IC is a failure because it's goal was not met, which was to bring the two groups together as an introduction to pvp. Murkmire accomplished what it was supposed to accomplish.

This is an MULTIPLAYER game

A multiplayer game that markets itself as solo player friendly, and in fact continues to put out solo content. Those people are not irrelevant. They are the exact people that you're trying to force PVP on, so they are the most important for consideration. People who are already geared are the ones irrelevant. They already PVP unless they don't like it.

LOL then how do the unskilled ever get skilled??????

They play. But that does mean that their experience until that point is unimportant. Most PvP games put in things to make those experiences better. But the fact that you don't want to even contemplate an actual solution besides "lol git gud" shows that you're not actually interested in this idea to get new people into PVP. Otherwise you'd care about that experience. Nah, you only care about already established people. Like OP, you probably only want to grief.

But I mean wouldn't that be your own fault for being that hungry in the first place?

Giving a person about to pass out (which btw can happen to hypoglycemia sufferers through no fault of their own) a snack and a few minutes break is a solution to that problem.

Again. You're not providing solutions or addressing concerns.

So wouldn't it be on them then to get gear, gain experience, join guilds, and make friends?

No. It's on the development team to ensure that they have a good experience without those things, so that they want to get them instead of uninstalling. As the people pushing for this, it's on you to come with actual, direct solutions to making the game better for those people. If you can't do that, then you aren't addressing ***.

Murkmire had nothing to retool because it had no content and no population. It was never successful to begin with by any measure. IC was.

Yes, those players are irrelevant to the conversation. The only way your premise works is if you take people in the first hour of starting or people willfully ignoring the multiplayer mechanics. Sorry the 0.01% is not who you cater a game to.

No conference would stop to give you a snack and a break. You're an adult, you would embarrass your company and your reputation by not being able to so basic simple tasks like take care of yourself. Hypoglycemia sufferers (again like 0.01% of the population) would have a snack on them in this case because they know their own medical condition. What if it was diabetes and you passed out because you didnt take insulin? When is the stuff you choose to do actually your own fault?

Most pvp games are not all pvp games. ESO doesn't have to do anything more than it already has done but that's the PVE mentality. Gimme gimme gimme. You have to try like everyone else and if all you're going to make are excuses then no I dont care about your "experience" because everyone has a different one and you can't cater to everyone's individual experience. That's not how video games or anything in life works. I'm glad you can make character assumptions about me because I think people can try and be surprised that they can do things they couldn't. Sorry you don't.

How is it on the development team to make sure you have a good experience if you choose to ignore all the tools they give you to make your experience good. It's the same thing, oh the developers need to hold my hand, I can't accomplish anything without them.

The_Drop_Bear · January 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

meanwhile pvpers have to suffer taking skyshard, doing stupid quests like psijic line, reading a ton of books for mages guild, child mechanics for getting helmets etc etc and all, for every pj lol Lets suffer all or nobody lol

the LOL is on you. ESO is NOT a PVP game. Suck it up princess.

It's not a single player game either XD it's an MMO which traditionally a split of PVP and PVE. Suck it up princess

Yeah it's an MMO, which means in a few years PvP will become so unprofitable they get rid of it like the others did.
Hahahah

ESO is a PVE game, PVP is optional for those that want it.

Unprofitable? Do you understand that PVP doesn't have to make money? It's built into the base game cost so it will never go away.

ESO is an MMO that means PVP is part of it. Not sure if you've ever actually played the game but the 3 banners war is a big part of the current timeline in ESO.

What MMO has ever removed PVP? You sound very angry to the point you dont know what you're talking about XD maybe go outside more

Yes it does have to be profitable, the server need upkeep.
Also MMO doesn't mean PvP.

Ah salty pvper telling me to go outside more, hahahah.

Rave the Histborn · January 2020

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

drkfrontiers wrote: »

coletas wrote: »

meanwhile pvpers have to suffer taking skyshard, doing stupid quests like psijic line, reading a ton of books for mages guild, child mechanics for getting helmets etc etc and all, for every pj lol Lets suffer all or nobody lol

the LOL is on you. ESO is NOT a PVP game. Suck it up princess.

It's not a single player game either XD it's an MMO which traditionally a split of PVP and PVE. Suck it up princess

Yeah it's an MMO, which means in a few years PvP will become so unprofitable they get rid of it like the others did.
Hahahah

ESO is a PVE game, PVP is optional for those that want it.

Unprofitable? Do you understand that PVP doesn't have to make money? It's built into the base game cost so it will never go away.

ESO is an MMO that means PVP is part of it. Not sure if you've ever actually played the game but the 3 banners war is a big part of the current timeline in ESO.

What MMO has ever removed PVP? You sound very angry to the point you dont know what you're talking about XD maybe go outside more

Yes it does have to be profitable, the server need upkeep.
Also MMO doesn't mean PvP.

Ah salty pvper telling me to go outside more, hahahah.

They are the same servers. It doesnt have to profitable at all as it is factored into the cost of the game.

MMO generally means pvp is part of it. Maybe read what I say next time. The successful ones all have it.

But just another scared PVE person afraid of going out of their comfort zone.

Btw I do PVE/PVP, it might be hard to fathom that you dont have to secluded yourself from an entire part of the game.

BearMoose · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

or one of the main reasons not to do this is we hate pvp..lol I love how pvpers are always looking to gank lower level pve players to build their self esteem. BDO was a great example of this.. No one wanted to pvp equally skilled leveled players but they loved to jump unarmed or unsuspecting pve players ...smh

xeNNNNN · January 2020

This would have "some" potential if PvP wasn't already a massive lagfest for everyone involved where most abilities either break, cease to work or even work beyond what was intended.

PvP is fundamentally broken at its core because the game is fundamentally unstable at its core and thus unless that core is fixed by ZoS eventually when pigs learn to fly of course then all ideas of introducing PvP to a PvE centric audience should be put on the back burner. At this point I would rather PvP just die and I play PvP a lot like....I raid 3 times a week. Thats all my PvE the rest is PvP.

Fr4ctalz · January 2020

lol this post. everything OP described is Cyrodiil. pvp inside a pve zone. aha