Make PvP areas that PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE
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Uvi_AUT✭✭✭✭✭LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.
At the restaurant: "In order to get your Filet Mignon you have to eat this old piece of used toilet paper. Sorry, its mandatory"....Registered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....9 -
Ozazz✭✭✭✭So we can agree that PVE have 0 interest in pvp and continue to ruin it for the players that care about pvp, good talk!0 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭So we can agree that PVE have 0 interest in pvp and continue to ruin it for the players that care about pvp, good talk!
How is other people not being interested in PvP ruining PvP? That does not make any sense at all. If the PvP culture in ESO requires PVE players to be interested, then it's already failed.
You also twisted what I said, I said some people are not interested in PvP at all, and never will be. Trying to convince those people is a wasted effort. You were not trying to do that in the comments you made I referred to anyway, you may have in comments I was not referring to, but I was specifically referring to the remark you made in which you made an argument if a person was just trying to have fun they would be playing the game, and not commenting on the forums.8 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.
First off, the entire premise is flawed. You are obviously one of the people who likes PvP. How did you then become such an authority on how people who do Not like PvP think? I do not agree that your explanation is 'one of the reasons' that players do not like PvP.
Second, creating a location where players will be ganked early and often because the gankers KNOW the PvE characters MUST go through the area to do their quests will not, IMHO, in any way shape or form, encourage the PvE player to try PvP. But I am reasonably certain, that the suggestion would improve the overall performance of the game as the numbers of players drop.
IMHO
7 -
Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Thread is interesting, seems many know that forcing pvp on pve player’s is a bad thing but at the same time can’t fathom why forcing pve on pvp players is also bad. It’s suddenly different. If one thing is blatantly obvious it’s how bias the eso community can be.
I don't think that's the case at all. It isn't 100% but many of these threads start off or end up that PvE players need to PvP because PvP players are forced to run PvE for PvP stuff. It is an argument largely based on if we are being punished then you should be too. I think the PvP community would be better spending their energy working out how to replace the PvE content with appropriate PvP activities and then brow beating ZOS with those ideas to get them implemented. To me it really isn't much different than skills balancing. A large part of skills balancing is due to PvP balance and it frequently has a negative effect on PvE. I don't go around blaming PvP for that and insist PvP has to learn to like PvE attributes. Instead I blame ZOS for not separating the two environments skills attributes so they can be tuned individually.3 -
curtisnewton✭✭✭When I play PVP i like it fair, so for me 1vs1 starcraft or quake is the only real pvp.
RPGs arent a good base for esport in my opinion.
Its like you would go to an oldtimer car show with your modern tuned car to want to go racing on streets.
A real racer joins a club and drives motobikes on courses.Edited by curtisnewton on January 28, 2020 11:18AM5 -
LadyDestiny✭✭✭✭✭LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.
Just no....go to cyrodiil. You will find newbie players doing quests and dailies there. Why ruin the pve aspect of the game and ruin players time with needless trolling and ganking. That won't make a player want to go pvp. There is a game for that though. It's call Black Desert Online. You can pvp till your hearts content and gank low level grinding players all day long.3 -
The_Drop_Bear✭✭✭LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »The day this game starts forcing PvP on me is the day I will stop playing it. I have tried it, several times as the various modes of PvP in this game have been introduced, and it simply does not appeal to me at all.LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »You might not like killing players but you have to do it in order to do pve.
I don't even understand what you mean. No, I don't "have to" do anything I don't like in this game, and that's how I want it.
Ok then why I have to do PvE in order to get gear for PvP sutff. I am literally forced to do pve content in order to compete in pvp. add to that getting undaunted passives.Alienoutlaw wrote: »LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »The day this game starts forcing PvP on me is the day I will stop playing it. I have tried it, several times as the various modes of PvP in this game have been introduced, and it simply does not appeal to me at all.LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »You might not like killing players but you have to do it in order to do pve.
I don't even understand what you mean. No, I don't "have to" do anything I don't like in this game, and that's how I want it.
Ok then why I have to do PvE in order to get gear for PvP sutff. I am literally forced to do pve content in order to compete in pvp. add to that getting undaunted passives.
PvP is a secondary part of ESO not the main focus so the game caters as such
Lol, good one.
Or it's the primary part of the game for those interested, and one of the viable end games considering end game PvE is limited.
Don't be ignorant
You can play ESO for as long as you want and never touch PvP, the same can't be said for PvE.
PvP is optional PvE is not4 -
Vyvrhel✭✭✭BTW at least stamina pvers ARE in fact forced into PvP in order to obtain Vigor and Caltrops (an aoe skill often used in pve pre nerf). So I was running with a zerg for some 2 - 3 days, totally bored since lets face it there is a very little skill involved in zerging, before I levelled the branch enough to get the skills. So if zerging is the proper PvP to you, worry not, you will always find plenty of zergs both In Cyro and recently also in IC.
Footnote: force people into something they do not like, they will certainly find a way around it YOU will not like.3 -
The_Drop_Bear✭✭✭Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.
You will find the majority of the PvE players would just stop going. The old argument that someone will like something it if they just try it has never worked and never will. Well it might work for a small minority. If players actually had an interest in PvP, or to keep things balanced, high level instanced content you wouldn't have to try and coerce them to try them out. Instead they would just do it on their own. Then there is the group that has tried it and wants nothing to do with it.
what this person said. it isn't really your place to decide what players do and don't enjoy.
the people that enjoy pvp will go and play it, especially when we have the events like midyear mayhem on. if they like it, they'll stay. pvp in this game is very much an "aquired taste" (it sucks) so it makes sense that the only people that play it long term are the ones extremely passionate about it
Did you even read what op said0 -
The_Drop_Bear✭✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »Thread is interesting, seems many know that forcing pvp on pve player’s is a bad thing but at the same time can’t fathom why forcing pve on pvp players is also bad. It’s suddenly different. If one thing is blatantly obvious it’s how bias the eso community can be.
Would you rather they remove PvP completely, it doesn't make enough money to justify a revamp.
ESO is a PvE game with some optional PVP for those who want it.3 -
The_Drop_Bear✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »drkfrontiers wrote: »meanwhile pvpers have to suffer taking skyshard, doing stupid quests like psijic line, reading a ton of books for mages guild, child mechanics for getting helmets etc etc and all, for every pj lol Lets suffer all or nobody lol
the LOL is on you. ESO is NOT a PVP game. Suck it up princess.
It's not a single player game either XD it's an MMO which traditionally a split of PVP and PVE. Suck it up princess
Yeah it's an MMO, which means in a few years PvP will become so unprofitable they get rid of it like the others did.
Hahahah
ESO is a PVE game, PVP is optional for those that want it.9 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »Anyone that says they are "just doing it for fun" is lying.
You seem to have confused ESO as a game that even has a chance of being considered esports.
You seem to have be confused about how competition works. It doesnt have to be an esport to be competitive and you can still have fun in a competitive environment.
If you really don't care about the competition, being in a competitive environment isn't going to be fun for you.
You have a character you built to be uber competitive, take advantage of every possible point of damage/magic/shield/whatever, wreak total devastation any time you choose to do so. Gold star for you. May your kills be many.
I have characters I built because I had a concept I wanted to try, skill lines/abilities to experience, multiple crafted gear sets to mix and match, and more of the ES world to explore. My ideal way to have fun is to build the best character I can to beat the game world. I have fun beating the game, really don't care about beating other players.
It would take an *incredible* amount of effort for me to care *less* than I do whether your mobile zone of total catastrophic decimation can kill my character or not. Of course you can. Just like all the pvpers who kept killing my character in the past did, when I had to go to IC to use crafting stations before the attunable ones were available. My character had no issues dealing with the npc enemies and daedra. I didn't bother to fight back against the pvpers because it really doesn't matter to me if they kill me or not. Took one guy 6 times before he got bored and let me go to the crafting station. The only feeling I had was mild annoyance because he was making a simple crafting run take a lot longer than it had to be.6 -
Lucious90✭✭✭Keep pve out of pvp and pvp out of pve. Just that simple.
Id like for them to get rid of the Alliance War skill lines in Pve just like id like for them to get rid of monster sets and the guild skill lines in pvp obviously rework skill lines to make up for the missed vigor, caltrops etc, rework gear to make up for Pvpers missed bloodspawn.
Now will it happen probably not, atleast the pve grind for vigor and caltrops is much easier than the grind for blood spawnXbox/NA
Naturegoat - Stam Warden
Healgoat- Mag temp
Staticgoat- Stam Sorc0 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings all!
After removing a handful of posts, we must ask that all posts be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. While it is understandable that some members of these forums may have varying opinions and views, and some may even debate here and there, Baiting is still a violation of the rules.
If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭The_Drop_Bear wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »drkfrontiers wrote: »meanwhile pvpers have to suffer taking skyshard, doing stupid quests like psijic line, reading a ton of books for mages guild, child mechanics for getting helmets etc etc and all, for every pj lol Lets suffer all or nobody lol
the LOL is on you. ESO is NOT a PVP game. Suck it up princess.
It's not a single player game either XD it's an MMO which traditionally a split of PVP and PVE. Suck it up princess
Yeah it's an MMO, which means in a few years PvP will become so unprofitable they get rid of it like the others did.
Hahahah
ESO is a PVE game, PVP is optional for those that want it.
Unprofitable? Do you understand that PVP doesn't have to make money? It's built into the base game cost so it will never go away.
ESO is an MMO that means PVP is part of it. Not sure if you've ever actually played the game but the 3 banners war is a big part of the current timeline in ESO.
What MMO has ever removed PVP? You sound very angry to the point you dont know what you're talking about XD maybe go outside more0 -
KMarble✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »Anyone that says they are "just doing it for fun" is lying.
Dude, you can call me anything you want, but don't ever call me a liar.Rave the Histborn wrote: »"I dont have to self improve since" just changed to "I improve my mind by various strategies."
So which is it? Are you not improving yourself because "fun" or are you improving yourself because that's how human psychology works. You like something so you want to improve on it.
I never said you had any deficiencies in the game, I just said that you're lying to prove your point on the forums which you are.
Do you use those new strategies for your mind in ESO as well? Because the rest of what you said is called a "non sequitor". If you're playing ESO for fun or not you've had to improve, I doubt you're the same player you were the first day so saying you don't have to improve because you do things for fun is just nonsense. You improve the more you do stuff whether you like it or not.
I used to hang around a knitting forum and there were some people there who only knit garter (the easiest stitch to learn, and for some people the first one they learn) squares. Some of them had been knitting for 40/50 years and chose to do those simple squares because (brace yourself because this will shock you) it was FUN FOR THEM.
Maybe, at an earlier point they've knit more complicated stuff and got tired of doing that. Maybe they never improved because they were intimidated. Truth is, it doesn't matter the reason why they didn't do anything else because doing simple squares was what they enjoyed doing and what they did to get a break from real life.
You seem to not understand that we are all different and have different goals and ideas about what fun entails.Rave the Histborn wrote: »Well I mean by that logic then PVE is a disaster post events.
If a PvP player is truly looking for a challenge they wouldn't be wanting to fight PVE players.
Why? Because you say so? PVE players are just as able as anyone else.
They would not suggest mixing of PVE and PvP, if they are any good at all they also realize that PVE players are not geared
Is that our fault now too? If you know you need different gear for pvp, you're choosing not to wear it. It takes no effort to craft impen Julianos/Hundings in impen and that's more than enough for your basic pvp goals.
It's hard to take this seriously when you have to gear up for PVE just like PVP but all of a sudden impenetrable is this impossible mountain to climb. It's an excuse, nothing more.
do not have their skill points distributed properly
Don't all the trials have a CP preference just like PVP would? Not sure how this is different from PVE or why it's such an obstacle to surpass. You don't even need a shrine to change CP, it's the cheapest easiest thing to change.
have not practiced the skills necessary to engage successfully in PvP.
So they would need pvp practice to be successful in PVP but you have to pvp to practice. It sounds like a vicious cycle!
The only conclusion I can come to is that people who are wanting this type of mix, that being PvP vs PVE are only looking for easy victims.
You're making the assumption as someone that has very limited pvp experience if any. If anyone is making themselves a victim it's people that know the requirements, choose to ignore them, and then continue to cry about it.
You're moving the goal posts. The OP suggests that to advance into the PvE story (the quests), players should be forced to go through PvP areas so they can "learn" to like PvP.
A new player will not be able to craft gear, weapons and jewelry appropriate for those choke points because they'll be leveling up and at that stage it's really hard to have enough points to have your combat skills and crafting up to your level.
Before you say "well, they can buy or ask guild mates to make what they need", let me remind you that a new player will probably not have the money to buy all of that - Julianos and Hundings sell for a lot of gold - or enough mats to give to a guild mate to have the sets crafted. That is, if they're in a guild at all.
I should also remind you that new players won't have CP points available to reallocated as you suggest.3 -
Magenpie✭✭✭✭✭Apologies but this is a horrible idea, and hints at a desire to simply gank people less experienced at PvP than you.
How kind of you. No thanks.7 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »Anyone that says they are "just doing it for fun" is lying.
Dude, you can call me anything you want, but don't ever call me a liar.Rave the Histborn wrote: »"I dont have to self improve since" just changed to "I improve my mind by various strategies."
So which is it? Are you not improving yourself because "fun" or are you improving yourself because that's how human psychology works. You like something so you want to improve on it.
I never said you had any deficiencies in the game, I just said that you're lying to prove your point on the forums which you are.
Do you use those new strategies for your mind in ESO as well? Because the rest of what you said is called a "non sequitor". If you're playing ESO for fun or not you've had to improve, I doubt you're the same player you were the first day so saying you don't have to improve because you do things for fun is just nonsense. You improve the more you do stuff whether you like it or not.
I used to hang around a knitting forum and there were some people there who only knit garter (the easiest stitch to learn, and for some people the first one they learn) squares. Some of them had been knitting for 40/50 years and chose to do those simple squares because (brace yourself because this will shock you) it was FUN FOR THEM.
Maybe, at an earlier point they've knit more complicated stuff and got tired of doing that. Maybe they never improved because they were intimidated. Truth is, it doesn't matter the reason why they didn't do anything else because doing simple squares was what they enjoyed doing and what they did to get a break from real life.
You seem to not understand that we are all different and have different goals and ideas about what fun entails.Rave the Histborn wrote: »Well I mean by that logic then PVE is a disaster post events.
If a PvP player is truly looking for a challenge they wouldn't be wanting to fight PVE players.
Why? Because you say so? PVE players are just as able as anyone else.
They would not suggest mixing of PVE and PvP, if they are any good at all they also realize that PVE players are not geared
Is that our fault now too? If you know you need different gear for pvp, you're choosing not to wear it. It takes no effort to craft impen Julianos/Hundings in impen and that's more than enough for your basic pvp goals.
It's hard to take this seriously when you have to gear up for PVE just like PVP but all of a sudden impenetrable is this impossible mountain to climb. It's an excuse, nothing more.
do not have their skill points distributed properly
Don't all the trials have a CP preference just like PVP would? Not sure how this is different from PVE or why it's such an obstacle to surpass. You don't even need a shrine to change CP, it's the cheapest easiest thing to change.
have not practiced the skills necessary to engage successfully in PvP.
So they would need pvp practice to be successful in PVP but you have to pvp to practice. It sounds like a vicious cycle!
The only conclusion I can come to is that people who are wanting this type of mix, that being PvP vs PVE are only looking for easy victims.
You're making the assumption as someone that has very limited pvp experience if any. If anyone is making themselves a victim it's people that know the requirements, choose to ignore them, and then continue to cry about it.
You're moving the goal posts. The OP suggests that to advance into the PvE story (the quests), players should be forced to go through PvP areas so they can "learn" to like PvP.
A new player will not be able to craft gear, weapons and jewelry appropriate for those choke points because they'll be leveling up and at that stage it's really hard to have enough points to have your combat skills and crafting up to your level.
Before you say "well, they can buy or ask guild mates to make what they need", let me remind you that a new player will probably not have the money to buy all of that - Julianos and Hundings sell for a lot of gold - or enough mats to give to a guild mate to have the sets crafted. That is, if they're in a guild at all.
I should also remind you that new players won't have CP points available to reallocated as you suggest.
I wasn't responding to OP, i was responding to Backstabeth so I'm not sure how I'm moving the goal posts from OP when I'm not responding to that.
A new player can ask anyone to craft great for them, that is the point of craftable gear. If they can't craft it themselves then they CAN GET SOMEONE TO CRAFT IT FOR THEM. IT. IS. CRAFTABLE. I don't why every new player has to be absolutely incompetent in these scenarios. If they've been playing for 5minues then yes they won't have the necessary tools but those players also aren't heading into PVP right away.
Guildmates are usually cool people and if they're so new then lowbie mats are easy to come by and most people are cool and wiling to craft things for free. If you've hit lvl 50 and you don't have enough gold or mats collected for a single armor set then I'm not sure what you've been doing. I've seen people in zone do it for free to help lowbies. The community exists for a reason, just ask. Immediately assuming that no one can craft Julianos/Hundings is absurd.
They won't have the same CP?? Well if only ZOS added a NO-CP campaign that they could jump into exactly for this scenario!0 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭Some people, no matter how logical your reasoning is, no matter if you are spot on correct, will deny truth.
I really like the phrase "moving the goal posts" because it describes so perfectly what one particular individual is attempting to do in this thread. Many times all you have to do is make good solid logical sense and allow the other person to respond away. Let them believe they are winning, don't engage any answer or question they pose that makes no logical sense or isn't correct. They will post more crazy totally outside reality responses until everyone who reads what they posted will all come to the same conclusion.
ZoS is never going to force PVE players to engage in PvP content, it would be like urinating in the wind. The game would be sticks, twigs and crickets. The revenue would dry up, people would lose their jobs and the game we love so much would fold up shop. It's happened so many times before that the developers of MMOs can easily benchmark against prior failures.
The developers of MMOs have to be much more intelligent about any changes they make if they want to stay competitive and capture a significant part of the video game entertainment industry. ZoS could not afford to make the mistake of mixing PVE with PvP. It's a pipe dream, not a pot pipe dream but a crack pipe dream.
I'm going to make a point of not engaging in these conversations that have to do with PvP mixing with PVE. Others have said it and they are spot on, it's never going to happen so this entire thread is a complete waste of logic and time. Let it die, the event will end in the near future and all the PvPers that are posting these fantasies will fade back to where they came from. It just seems to me like some people are role playing PvP fantasies on the forum. I don't really want to try and engage in intelligent discourse with people just expressing crazy fantasies, right?9 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moving the goal posts has to apply to the same person in the same conversation. You can't shift goal posts by taking one conversation and applying it to another conversation, that's not how it works. A logical response would be able to engage questions or discourse not ignore it entirely because your opinion could be swayed.
They will post more crazy totally outside reality responses until everyone who reads what they posted will all come to the same conclusion.
Let me tell you about my tree house and the planes I fly. Which one was the lie?
I'm not trolling or baiting, your base premise is just wrong. ZOS has already forced PVE players to engage in PVP content. It's called the Imperial City and it was the first DLC and it was very successful. It helped fuel everything that came after it and the game did not become "sticks, twigs, and crickets." Revenue didn't dry up, people didn't lose jobs, jobs were created as the game became more popular and expanded after its first DLC.
0 -
Akisohida✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »Moving the goal posts has to apply to the same person in the same conversation. You can't shift goal posts by taking one conversation and applying it to another conversation, that's not how it works. A logical response would be able to engage questions or discourse not ignore it entirely because your opinion could be swayed.
They will post more crazy totally outside reality responses until everyone who reads what they posted will all come to the same conclusion.
Let me tell you about my tree house and the planes I fly. Which one was the lie?
I'm not trolling or baiting, your base premise is just wrong. ZOS has already forced PVE players to engage in PVP content. It's called the Imperial City and it was the first DLC and it was very successful. It helped fuel everything that came after it and the game did not become "sticks, twigs, and crickets." Revenue didn't dry up, people didn't lose jobs, jobs were created as the game became more popular and expanded after its first DLC.
Forced? I don't recall ZOE coming to my house, putting a gun to my head, and making me do PVP.
I also don't recall logging in and finding my character in the PvP zones with a note saying 'You can only leave after killing 10 people'.
Your problem is that you refuse to be wrong. You will say anything, so long as you can tell yourself you're 'winning' the discussion.
And the OP\s idea is terrible. If someone does not like PvP, forcing them to play PvP in order to play the game game will just make them NOT PLAY. They won't suddenly decide PvP is fine because it was crammed down their throat.
You're wrong. Accept it.12 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »Moving the goal posts has to apply to the same person in the same conversation. You can't shift goal posts by taking one conversation and applying it to another conversation, that's not how it works. A logical response would be able to engage questions or discourse not ignore it entirely because your opinion could be swayed.
They will post more crazy totally outside reality responses until everyone who reads what they posted will all come to the same conclusion.
Let me tell you about my tree house and the planes I fly. Which one was the lie?
I'm not trolling or baiting, your base premise is just wrong. ZOS has already forced PVE players to engage in PVP content. It's called the Imperial City and it was the first DLC and it was very successful. It helped fuel everything that came after it and the game did not become "sticks, twigs, and crickets." Revenue didn't dry up, people didn't lose jobs, jobs were created as the game became more popular and expanded after its first DLC.
Forced? I don't recall ZOE coming to my house, putting a gun to my head, and making me do PVP.
I also don't recall logging in and finding my character in the PvP zones with a note saying 'You can only leave after killing 10 people'.
Your problem is that you refuse to be wrong. You will say anything, so long as you can tell yourself you're 'winning' the discussion.
And the OP\s idea is terrible. If someone does not like PvP, forcing them to play PvP in order to play the game game will just make them NOT PLAY. They won't suddenly decide PvP is fine because it was crammed down their throat.
You're wrong. Accept it.
So when they released IC they also released veteran rank 15/16 armor with it. In order to get the rubedite needed to craft them you had to go to IC and participate in a PVPVE zone to get gear drops to deconstruct. Now it takes a lot of pieces of gear to decon to make a full set of v16 armor (significantly longer than it takes to get say 10 kills like your example) and that whole time the sewers/districts were very very active so you couldn't do it without engaging(FORCING) in PVP at some point. If you wanted to be competitive in PVP/PVE in endgame you needed that armor and you had to PVP to get it no matter what your level of experience was. You can "force" people without putting a gun to their head or dropping them in a PVP zone. Just lock the gear they need behind a new DLC, sure you don't "need it" but you also can't do endgame without it and it's going to be so expensive that 99% of players can't afford it. You're then "forced" to keep up.
My problem is I'm willing to have an honest conversation that people that claim to know my motives and that I need to win. I mean it's an internet argument, there is no winner. I'd like to have a genuine conversation thought with people that don't just call me a troll because I can refute their points and I'm willing to talk to them. I mean look at how the conversation goes
"players don't have gear/can't craft their gear"
You can buy or craft it
"well then they don't have enough CP"
you can just go to a no CP campaign
"but I've never played PVP, i'd be an easy target"
you'll never get pvp experience if you don't join pvp. everyone had to start out at one point
then back to step 10 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Rave the Histborn
IC was a colossal failure that they can't get PvE people to do even after giving the DLC away for free.
Your counterarguments are largely nonsense. Telling somone they don't like having fun in eso because they a forum account is nonsense. Telling someone that they have to want to self improve and can't just play for fun is nonsense. Ignoring all the people who quit if they were forced into pvp is nonsense.
The argument was NOT that they did not have gear, it was that they not everyone has a guild or income to get gear. Asking their nonexistent guildmate to make it for them is not a solution. Telling them to go to no cp if they haven't unlocked cp is not a solution, because it completely ignores that cp still has an impact on gear even in no cp campaigns. When you are addressing new players, those are legitimate concerns that don't just go away because you don't want to acknowledge the time it takes to solve them.
Telling someone they will get better at PvP eventually does not address people being farmed before that happens. And there will constantly be a refresh of players getting farmed.
Many of the counterarguments you have made either fail to address the point or show an utter failure to comprehend that others don't enjoy things the same way you do.
Many video games with forced pvp have either been forced to switch to pve or shuttered. The content in this game that forces pvp has all had to been tweaked because it had a negative impact on the game. Trying to blindly do things the same way all over again won't result in success. It will just lead to people quitting. Those things have to actually be addressed in order for it work. Real addresses, not just tossing hands up and saying they'll get over it eventually.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 28, 2020 10:05PM12 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »@Rave the Histborn
IC was a colossal failure that they can't get PvE people to do even after giving the DLC away for free.
Your counterarguments are largely nonsense. Telling somone they don't like having fun in eso because they a forum account is nonsense. Telling someone that they have to want to self improve and can't just play for fun is nonsense. Ignoring all the people who quit if they were forced into pvp is nonsense.
The argument was NOT that they did not have gear, it was that they not everyone has a guild or income to get gear. Asking their nonexistent guildmate to make it for them is not a solution. Telling them to go to no cp if they haven't unlocked cp is not a solution, because it completely ignores that cp still has an impact on gear even in no cp campaigns. When you are addressing new players, those are legitimate concerns that don't just go away because you don't want to acknowledge the time it takes to solve them.
Telling someone they will get better at PvP eventually does not address people being farmed before that happens. And there will constantly be a refresh of players getting farmed.
Many of the counterarguments you have made either fail to address the point or show an utter failure to comprehend that others don't enjoy things the same way you do.
Many video games with forced pvp have either been forced to switch to pve or shuttered. The content in this game that forces pvp has all had to been tweaked because it had a negative impact on the game. Trying to blindly do things the same way all over again won't result in success. It will just lead to people quitting. Those things have to actually be addressed in order for it work. Real addresses, not just tossing hands up and saying they'll get over it eventually.
IC was a success and they gave it away during an anniversary event 5 years (hint after they made all their money) after it was released. If we use your level of standards then Murkmire was a colossal failure as they gave it away the month after it was released. Your only "proof" is giving away a free dlc which isn't proof at all of anythings success. It just proves you don't know what you're talking about.
If you were just here to have "just fun" you'd have no need for a forums account you'd be happy with how the game goes. I mean it's something you'd have to go out of your way to create and use and forums users are notorious for ya know, "not just being in it for fun" and it's already been stated by those same people. They want to have fun their way and vocalize changes they want to shape the game how they see fit which doesn't sound like you're "just there to have fun" as I keep being told they are.
Guilds are easy to find and also not necessary, income is easy to make you can get 100k gold from daily login rewards alone plus all the gold rewards you can get from playing the game. They still have access to zone chat, reddit, the forums, etc. to get gear made, they don't need a "non existant" guild mate when there's plenty of capable people in the game able to craft gear for them.
If they haven't unlocked CP then there's below 50 campaigns.
Those aren't legitimate complains. If you want to do PVE most people join guilds, most of your money is made there, and a lot of your PVP gear comes from impen versions in PVE. If you are capable of gearing yourself in PVE then you are capable of gearing yourself in PVP. There takes next to no time to solve any of these "problems" they are all easily solved in game with the tools given to you by ZOS.
Telling someone they will get better at PvP eventually does not address people being farmed before that happens. And there will constantly be a refresh of players getting farmed.
So should people not do PVE dlc dungeons and trials because they'll get it eventually but it doesn't address that they'll die a ton in between? Like how is this an argument? You even acknowledge that people will eventually get good when you say "before that happens" but until they learn they'll "get farmed." It's called a learning curve and everything has them.
Many of the counterarguments you have made either fail to address the point or show an utter failure to comprehend that others don't enjoy things the same way you do.
No, they do very concisely and I do understand people people don't enjoy the same things but that hasn't been the reason. The reasons are a long list of why people can't do PVP and why they wouldn't even try it.
None of the ESO content has been tweaked towards PVE, it has added more PVP elements to it. Would you also name a game for me if there's so many that have had to absolutely change their model because "many games" is a little vague. It won't lead to people quitting just like electing the wrong president doesn't actually lead to people moving out of the country.
"Those things have to actually be addressed in order for it work. Real addresses, not just tossing hands up and saying they'll get over it eventually."
Only you can join a guild, only you can make money, only you can improve your gameplay. I'm not sure how else you'd be able to address it beyond that. They're self made problems with self made solutions.Edited by Rave the Histborn on January 28, 2020 11:26PM0 -
Akisohida✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »@Rave the Histborn
IC was a colossal failure that they can't get PvE people to do even after giving the DLC away for free.
Your counterarguments are largely nonsense. Telling somone they don't like having fun in eso because they a forum account is nonsense. Telling someone that they have to want to self improve and can't just play for fun is nonsense. Ignoring all the people who quit if they were forced into pvp is nonsense.
The argument was NOT that they did not have gear, it was that they not everyone has a guild or income to get gear. Asking their nonexistent guildmate to make it for them is not a solution. Telling them to go to no cp if they haven't unlocked cp is not a solution, because it completely ignores that cp still has an impact on gear even in no cp campaigns. When you are addressing new players, those are legitimate concerns that don't just go away because you don't want to acknowledge the time it takes to solve them.
Telling someone they will get better at PvP eventually does not address people being farmed before that happens. And there will constantly be a refresh of players getting farmed.
Many of the counterarguments you have made either fail to address the point or show an utter failure to comprehend that others don't enjoy things the same way you do.
Many video games with forced pvp have either been forced to switch to pve or shuttered. The content in this game that forces pvp has all had to been tweaked because it had a negative impact on the game. Trying to blindly do things the same way all over again won't result in success. It will just lead to people quitting. Those things have to actually be addressed in order for it work. Real addresses, not just tossing hands up and saying they'll get over it eventually.
IC was a success and they gave it away during an anniversary event 5 years (hint after they made all their money) after it was released. If we use your level of standards then Murkmire was a colossal failure as they gave it away the month after it was released. Your only "proof" is giving away a free dlc which isn't proof at all of anythings success. It just proves you don't know what you're talking about.
If you were just here to have "just fun" you'd have no need for a forums account you'd be happy with how the game goes. I mean it's something you'd have to go out of your way to create and use and forums users are notorious for ya know, "not just being in it for fun" and it's already been stated by those same people. They want to have fun their way and vocalize changes they want to shape the game how they see fit which doesn't sound like you're "just there to have fun" as I keep being told they are.
Guilds are easy to find and also not necessary, income is easy to make you can get 100k gold from daily login rewards alone plus all the gold rewards you can get from playing the game. They still have access to zone chat, reddit, the forums, etc. to get gear made, they don't need a "non existant" guild mate when there's plenty of capable people in the game able to craft gear for them.
If they haven't unlocked CP then there's below 50 campaigns.
Those aren't legitimate complains. If you want to do PVE most people join guilds, most of your money is made there, and a lot of your PVP gear comes from impen versions in PVE. If you are capable of gearing yourself in PVE then you are capable of gearing yourself in PVP. There takes next to no time to solve any of these "problems" they are all easily solved in game with the tools given to you by ZOS.
Telling someone they will get better at PvP eventually does not address people being farmed before that happens. And there will constantly be a refresh of players getting farmed.
So should people not do PVE dlc dungeons and trials because they'll get it eventually but it doesn't address that they'll die a ton in between? Like how is this an argument? You even acknowledge that people will eventually get good when you say "before that happens" but until they learn they'll "get farmed." It's called a learning curve and everything has them.
Many of the counterarguments you have made either fail to address the point or show an utter failure to comprehend that others don't enjoy things the same way you do.
No, they do very concisely and I do understand people people don't enjoy the same things but that hasn't been the reason. The reasons are a long list of why people can't do PVP and why they wouldn't even try it.
None of the ESO content has been tweaked towards PVE, it has added more PVP elements to it. Would you also name a game for me if there's so many that have had to absolutely change their model because "many games" is a little vague. It won't lead to people quitting just like electing the wrong president doesn't actually lead to people moving out of the country.
"Those things have to actually be addressed in order for it work. Real addresses, not just tossing hands up and saying they'll get over it eventually."
Only you can join a guild, only you can make money, only you can improve your gameplay. I'm not sure how else you'd be able to address it beyond that. They're self made problems with self made solutions.
I don't get how you can think that people on the forums are not having fun.
The point of the forums is to be a community. To ask about problems, bugs, fixes an the like. And to just chat with people who also ENJOY THE DAMN GAME.
Just because I talk here does not mean I'm not enjoying ESO. It's actually the exact opposite; I talk here BECAUSE I enjoy ESO and want to be a part of the community.
And look at that; enjoying ESO, and enjoying the forums does not mean I HAVE to do PVP. I think PVP is stupid and fosters toxic 'gotta win!' mindsets..which is exactly what you show with every post you make. You have to 'win' the discussion instead of accept that some people just don't like PVP.
And it's perfectly fine if they don't like PVP. No one should be forced to play PvP just because you like it. And they're not wrong to like or dislike PvP.
So just stop. Arguing to force people to play PvP is just wrong. People won't grow to like it if they just don't like it from the outset.9 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The low population of IC for years before they gave it away, and the overhaul they did to make it more PvE friendly is proof enough of it's failure at engaging PvE players. Giving it away for free was not enough to reverse it either. The only people that really use IC is PvPers. It's a wasteland for anyone else and has been for years. If it had worked, they would not have made those changes.If you were just here to have "just fun" you'd have no need for a forums account you'd be happy with how the game goes
People who pop popcorn aren't really having fun at movies. If you really enjoyed movies, you would not be making popcorn. People who send party invities and do all the work to throw a party wouldn't be doing this if they really liked parties. They would just show up to them.
People put in extra effort to ensure they have fun all the time. They take care of problems that might put a damper on their fun. And they put in effort to try to add to enhance their enjoyment. This is seriously one of the dumbest points I have ever heard in over a decade of using various video game forums.Guilds are easy to find and also not necessary
Irrelevant. Some people don't have them because they are new. Others aren't in them because they don't enjoy them. You can't just offer a nonexistent guildmate as a solution for a new player that doesn't have or yet want a guild.
When you throw new players into PvP, you must take into account the experience of players without guilds, gear, or friends. Because that is a typical place to be in for new players. Griefing these types of players have killed plenty of MMOs because of this same stupid attitude. Moving into a new category of player does nothing to alleviate the problems of people not in that category, and if your game is to be a success there must always be people in that category.
Your attitude here is precisely why most games that force PvP have failed to integrate into the the user experience successfully. And many of the ones that are successful make an effort to prevent that situation from occuring by targeting the user experience of those players.
Saying just don't be that kind of player! Is not a solution. Everyone is that kind of player at first.If they haven't unlocked CP then there's below 50 campaigns.
People below CP 160 cannot make max level gear and cannot compete in those campaigns. People with low CP are not going to be able to do content that gets them gear that is competitive even if they are 160. Even in no cp, CP affects your ability to compete. Forcing players who aren't able to compete yet into competition is just making them fodder. It is not simple nor is it quick to solve those either. It can take months for someone to gear themselves to be able to start competiting.
Meanwhile you can do some of the earliest PvE content completely naked with absolutely no detriment.
These are legitimate complaints. You just reject anything inconvenient to your argument.So should people not do PVE dlc dungeons and trials because they'll get it eventually but it doesn't address that they'll die a ton in between?
Nobody enters that content before they feel they are ready, and it is impossible to force them into a situation where they have to do it.
This argument is invalid. When you force someone into an experience, you MUST care about the play experience of someone who is inexperienced and unprepared. Because they don't have a choice to enter it when they have experience and have prepared.No, they do very concisely and I do understand people people don't enjoy the same things but that hasn't been the reason.
Yes it has. And you've called those lies. And failed to address the concerns by saying eventually they'll have gear, so who cares about the ungeared? Which does not address the problems if the ungeared. Saying they'll get better does nothing to address the problems of the unskilled.
Addressing the problem means you actually have to address it, not just say they eventually won't be problems. Those are not solutions. If I am hungry and about to pass out in the middle of a presentation, that I have a dinner reservation the next day doesn't feed me or prevent me from passing out in the middle if the presentation.
Likewise eventually gaining gear, experience, guildmates, and friends does nothing to address the problems of people who don't have those things. Which is also very common for new players.
Your "solutions" to how bad it would be for new players is for them to stop being new. That does and means nothing.Edited by spartaxoxo on January 28, 2020 11:57PM9 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »IC was a colossal failure that they can't get PvE people to do even after giving the DLC away for free.
^THIS.
The style of gameplay the IC encouraged made it a skid row that civilized decent persons avoided.9
This discussion has been closed.