LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

People here are saying I made this thread because I'm not good at PvP and want to kill PvE players because they are an easy target. false, it will be much harder for me to do PvP because there will be huge groups of PvE players running around trying to kill one or two PvP players that are also grouped. Then why I want this? It's because I prefer doing something in PvP rather than doing nothing because nobody is there to fight. I prefer the challenge of fighting a massive group of players rather than having no challenge. I'm not looking to kill players that don't know how to PvP, I like the challenge of being outnumbered. I also want the PvP aspects of the game to be enhanced and that's why i call for PvE players to join PvP despite the fact PvE players will outnumber me like nothing I have seen before.

Then upload several videos of your 1 v X prowess. That way we can get a better idea of why you cannot find a good fight.

There are plenty of massive zergs with PvE players running around now for you to 1 v X like you are suggesting. So let’s see your experiment in action.

* and don’t be a bad puppy and use your friends to make said videos

Lol why should I prove my 1vx skills? It's not like PvP is bad right now and if pve players don't join PvP I will not enjoy it. this post is here just to make pvp better possibly and if pve players don't want to pvp that's their choice. Plus I used to care about 1vx a lot in the past but now I make my toon just for when I'm fighting alongside my friends and other people.

Personally, I could care less if you prove or do not prove any skills you may or may not have. In the way you have presented yourself, you have given the rest of us more than enough information to formulate unflattering opinions of you. It just so happens that some people are willing to give you the benefit of doubt, and ask for proof of your prowess before they take your own words to mean how you have expressed them. You should be thanking the people who ask, not laughing at them, they at least are giving you an opportunity to show you are not the person you have presented yourself as being.

I would be interested in reading your answer to this question.

PVE players are not equipped with the gear, with the skills, with point distribution or the experience to effectively engage in PvP. This means you literally are looking to fight weaker players so that you have a massive advantage. Do you understand this?

If I were to judge the type of player you are, based solely on what you have said here, it would not be kind. Is this really the person you wish to present yourself as being?

If I'm laughing and writing "lol" it's a positive expression that doesn't mean I don't like the person who made me laugh. If PvE players are together in a group or they are fighting other PvE players it doesn't matter if they are not equipped with gear or have the skills. This thread I posted is an idea. I'm not a developer and can't spend all day thinking about making a perfect idea but ideas can be perfected by other people and the developers. For example, when I said if PvE players can kill other PvE players at their level they might like PvP someone else wrote I don't like killing players that much and even if I'm good at PvP it doesn't appeal to me, someone else can suggest to include some other activities in PvP that don't involve killing players but still can be considered PvP.

I'm pretty sure you have entirely missed the meaning of every comment that has given good reason why your suggestion is bad. PvP literally means player versus player, if a PVE player is fighting another PVE player that is not PVE and they are not PVE players, that is PvP.

If a PvP player is fighting a PVE player that does not wish to fight other players, that is not PvP that is PK, Player Killing, that is a PKer who is engaging in a none consensual fight. That really just amounts to griefing, or trolling, or toxic behavior.

You have presented yourself as a person who is looking for easy victims, not as someone who is thoughtfully engaged in improving the game for the majority of people, not even for the minority of people. I get the feeling most people engaged in PvP have no desire to Player Kill, to engage PVE players. I get the feeling they are mostly, more interested in a fair fight. What you suggest, not fair at all, not in any way or form.

You don't get it. If pve players are playing in a pvp zone and the majority of the players that they are fighting them are pve players like themselves then it's a fair fight. now there are some small pvp players that are good it doesn't matter anymore.

Missing the point again. If pve players are in a pvp zone, and they run into other pve players, then guess what; chances are good they will simply ignore each other by sheathing weapons or holding block and moving on. People who aren't competitive and don't want to fight other players will NOT FIGHT OTHER PLAYERS. Its the pvp players who ignore the sheathed weapons, holding block, playing instruments/any other way people show they don't want to fight and kill them anyway. Fair shmair, IT DOESN'T MATTER because they don't want to pvp at all.

BackStabeth wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

BackStabeth wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

People here are saying I made this thread because I'm not good at PvP and want to kill PvE players because they are an easy target. false, it will be much harder for me to do PvP because there will be huge groups of PvE players running around trying to kill one or two PvP players that are also grouped. Then why I want this? It's because I prefer doing something in PvP rather than doing nothing because nobody is there to fight. I prefer the challenge of fighting a massive group of players rather than having no challenge. I'm not looking to kill players that don't know how to PvP, I like the challenge of being outnumbered. I also want the PvP aspects of the game to be enhanced and that's why i call for PvE players to join PvP despite the fact PvE players will outnumber me like nothing I have seen before.

Then upload several videos of your 1 v X prowess. That way we can get a better idea of why you cannot find a good fight.

There are plenty of massive zergs with PvE players running around now for you to 1 v X like you are suggesting. So let’s see your experiment in action.

* and don’t be a bad puppy and use your friends to make said videos

Lol why should I prove my 1vx skills? It's not like PvP is bad right now and if pve players don't join PvP I will not enjoy it. this post is here just to make pvp better possibly and if pve players don't want to pvp that's their choice. Plus I used to care about 1vx a lot in the past but now I make my toon just for when I'm fighting alongside my friends and other people.

Personally, I could care less if you prove or do not prove any skills you may or may not have. In the way you have presented yourself, you have given the rest of us more than enough information to formulate unflattering opinions of you. It just so happens that some people are willing to give you the benefit of doubt, and ask for proof of your prowess before they take your own words to mean how you have expressed them. You should be thanking the people who ask, not laughing at them, they at least are giving you an opportunity to show you are not the person you have presented yourself as being.

I would be interested in reading your answer to this question.

PVE players are not equipped with the gear, with the skills, with point distribution or the experience to effectively engage in PvP. This means you literally are looking to fight weaker players so that you have a massive advantage. Do you understand this?

If I were to judge the type of player you are, based solely on what you have said here, it would not be kind. Is this really the person you wish to present yourself as being?

If I'm laughing and writing "lol" it's a positive expression that doesn't mean I don't like the person who made me laugh. If PvE players are together in a group or they are fighting other PvE players it doesn't matter if they are not equipped with gear or have the skills. This thread I posted is an idea. I'm not a developer and can't spend all day thinking about making a perfect idea but ideas can be perfected by other people and the developers. For example, when I said if PvE players can kill other PvE players at their level they might like PvP someone else wrote I don't like killing players that much and even if I'm good at PvP it doesn't appeal to me, someone else can suggest to include some other activities in PvP that don't involve killing players but still can be considered PvP.

I'm pretty sure you have entirely missed the meaning of every comment that has given good reason why your suggestion is bad. PvP literally means player versus player, if a PVE player is fighting another PVE player that is not PVE and they are not PVE players, that is PvP.

If a PvP player is fighting a PVE player that does not wish to fight other players, that is not PvP that is PK, Player Killing, that is a PKer who is engaging in a none consensual fight. That really just amounts to griefing, or trolling, or toxic behavior.

You have presented yourself as a person who is looking for easy victims, not as someone who is thoughtfully engaged in improving the game for the majority of people, not even for the minority of people. I get the feeling most people engaged in PvP have no desire to Player Kill, to engage PVE players. I get the feeling they are mostly, more interested in a fair fight. What you suggest, not fair at all, not in any way or form.

You don't get it. If pve players are playing in a pvp zone and the majority of the players that they are fighting them are pve players like themselves then it's a fair fight. now there are some small pvp players that are good it doesn't matter anymore.

No, you don't get it, if a PVE player is actively engaged in fighting another player, willingly, they are not a PVE player they are a PvP player. You are mix and matching meanings to justify previous statements and that isn't going to work here.

PVE plays don't fight PVE players, PvP players fight PvP players. When a PvP player fights a non willing, non consensual PVE player, that is not a PvP player that is a PK player, a player killer in other words who is engaging in non consensual murder of another player.

As well, PVE players would never be evenly matched, not unless they were all maxed out. What you seem to totally miss in suggesting PVE players could fight PVE players is that we already have exactly that, except it's PvP players fighting PvP players. Get it? It already exists.

The other thing you just seem to not understand, is that PVE players do not want to fight anyone, that's why they call themselves PVE players, they are not looking for, nor do the want to engage in fights with other players. Do you understand that? If they did, they would be PvP players not PVE players.

The other thing you seem to miss, totally, is that PVE players not wanting to engage in a fight with PvP players, or other PVE players would avoid PvP areas, you suggest FORCING them through these areas to complete PVE content, what you are really saying is "lets find the fastest most efficient way to totally destroy the player population of ESO" because that's exactly what would happen. It will be all sticks, twigs and crickets.

I have a different meaning of PvE player and PvP player. PvE players mostly spend their time doing PvE and PvP players mostly spend their time doing PvP.

BackStabeth wrote: »

Lucious90 wrote: »

Forced PvP is not the answer, and this is coming from a person who only PvEs to skyshard hunt while im waiting for Cyro or BG ques. I mainly pvp.

I hate the fact that I and other pvpers have to pve to get some of our better gear (monster sets) and I hate the fact PvE has to PvP to level up skills. I have an idea that could bring them all together in a mutually benefitting relationship.

We could do this on a DLC, Give 3-4 zones a PvP area, make it well known that you are entering this zone and you will be open to attack from other players. Keep all quest givers, delves dolemen world bosses etc out of these zones. One safe zone camp for each alliance. If you're a pver who wants to try their hand at pvp there's an immediate risk/Reward there for you in helping your alliance capture zones for a buff in game. If not you'll benefit every now and again from a buff in game with no disruption from your normal routine

In these zones give objectives to capture 3-5 objectives depending on size of the zone. Let the factions wage their war on it, if an alliance manages to lock a zone down, you give the alliance a buff to farming, Overland content drop rates, Ap, Exp, CP, what ever you want for the entire alliance. Tie these zones to Cyrodiil, as you capture more zones, more seige weapons become available, better town guard NPCs etc. Could even tie them to scoring for the campaign make them worth it.

There are not enough players who are interested in PvP to populate the type of DLCs you are talking about. The investment in labor to profit return is not there so it will never be done. There just simply are not enough PvP population to justify any risk investment.

There is a question I have been meaning to ask somewhere, and I might as well ask here. Considering all the complaints about ESO PvP, how clunky it is, all the garbage you are forced to go through to get the gear so you can be effective, why do you want to PvP in this particular game?

Maybe, I know on Xbox NA CP Cyro is always locked during the evening and weekends, and always looks like the 7 day gets close to it as well. Id be curious to see the actual numbers. Plus at this point I'd rather put out solutions and ideas than just *** and moan on the forums for attention

Now I play this game because it does have a more engaging combat system it isnt auto attacks put all of your abilities on CD, rinse wash repeat. Theres attack weaving, Animation cancelling is more prevelant than in any other game ive played, dodge rolling and active blocking things that add to the chaos of combat. Regardless of some of the issues I have with the game, bad Cyro performance even off event, RNG gear bags, PvEing for monster sets for pvp, I always end up back at this game

Exactly, the only way to solve it is to deliver some pvp experience. I mean real competitive content, not zerg vs zerg or weird BG where You don't know who Your opponent is. PvP now is mainly chaos with no real rewards. We need reason for players to go pvp. Tournaments, small arenas (4v4,8v8) with real competitive winning condition (king of the hill, domination, seek and destroy), guild fights (why in hell any guild would want to claim a castle in cyrodil?)
It's very possible in ESO right now with some changes of course...

I think there's a fundamental flaw in this argument based on the idea that a PvP player is forced through PvE to get to Lv 10 before they go to Cyrodiil, and then there's a lot of gear/skill lines in the PvE side. This argument is basically saying that a PvE player should also have a PvP chokepoint so they could 'get a feel for PvP,' and they might like it and then continue PvPing.

And that is just completely wrong.

Yes, PvPers must go through PvP up to Lv10, which really doesn't take that long. If someone got ESO strictly for PvP, you do need to do some PvE. I'd be okay if they wanted to change things up and put PvPers in Cyro from L1 on and go from there.

But as someone who got into ESO because I'm in major Elder Scrolls withdrawal since Skyrim was over 8 years ago now, abso-****-lutely not do I want to go the PvP route. I feel like setting PvP chokepoints in the MQ will drive off a lot of people who got into ESO because of the "Elder Scrolls" part of the name, not the "Online," and then the population of the game will drop precipitously. Especially if people then go and start ganking PvEers who just want to continue the quest, which is going to happen, whether the OP is wanting to be a ganker or not.

Yes, there should be a way to encourage PvEers to check out PvP, maybe by doing a few simple things...like putting skyshards and basic quests in PvP zones (like Cyrodiil), or having events that reward PvP (like Midyear Mayhem). And they are doing this. But forcing anyone to do anything is a great way to turn people off, rather than getting people to like things.

I went into ESO with the idea that I would not touch PvP with a 10 foot pole. Then I found out about the Fire Drake armor style that I can only get through Battlegrounds and, after grumbling a bit, I decided to try it during the Midyear Mayhem event. Well, that's here, I ran a bunch of Land Grab battlegrounds, got my outfit style, and actually had a lot of fun while doing it. Will I go back to PvP? Maybe... Cyro is pretty empty at some times, so if I need to go get skyshards, I may be able to. And Battlegrounds are loads of fun, even when I'm getting a K/D way less than 1. But I'm still here for PvE, and even having fun with battlegrounds isn't going to make me into a PvP player - I still royally suck at PvP. But I'll probably come back now and then if there's something I need - I'm not scared of PvP anymore.

So essentially, Midyear Mayhem did for me precisely what OP wanted it to do: it gave me a taste of PvP, so now I can see if I like it or not. And I'll likely be sticking to 99% PvE. But I got my taste, and I'm not scared of it anymore. And as an event, Midyear Mayhem is completely optional, so I never felt 'forced' into it. TBH, that is the best way to get PvEers to try PVP.

Some people just don't like PVP, and that's fine. Creating zones that force people to PVP will make for dead zones. There are already Alliance skills and passives, as well as Midyear Mayhem, to encourage people to *try* PVP to see if they like it.

Shantu wrote: »

For most people who don't really enjoy PVP, I believe the ratio of reward to effort is just too low to sustain interest. The Mayhem events illustrate that players WILL go to Cyrodiil if there is sufficient reward.

No, it shows they will go while there's an event and excitement generated around it. AP gains have been inflated over the years. It hasn't increased the number of long term players.

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

You will find the majority of the PvE players would just stop going. The old argument that someone will like something it if they just try it has never worked and never will. Well it might work for a small minority. If players actually had an interest in PvP, or to keep things balanced, high level instanced content you wouldn't have to try and coerce them to try them out. Instead they would just do it on their own. Then there is the group that has tried it and wants nothing to do with it.

I used to be straight PvE once. Steadily began PvPing. My Main is a Prefect now. I still hate it, but its the only thing left to do between content updates.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

Why? You just want to grief PVErs who do not want to PVP, or you suck against other PVPers? BTW you can farm PVErs in Imperial City where they try to do the interesting and wonderfully written questline. IC is an example of the mixed PVE / PVP environment where many kids suffering from severe forms of inferiority complex can ambush others 24/7.

Maybe I've been lucky but I don't like PVP but go to the PVP zones to complete the PVE achievements located there. This week I even participated in battles and helped kill people. It was fun. I was ganked 2 times, once in a town that was being fought over and once inside a delve at the entrance. I didn't fight back either time, I mean what's the use LOL.

While I did see some comments about PVErs I encountered NO toxicity, no screaming, yelliing, name calling, insulting and overall had a very enjoyable experience.

One thing I will say is that it was very difficult for me to learn how to "get around" and to know where to go to help in battles. I wanted to be more helpful. So if one of you sees one of us sitting in a town somewhere, don't assume we don't want to help.

Yeah, I have to disagree.

I hate PvP. I've hated PvP since WoW. I'll tell you a little story as to why:

Back during..Cataclysm? I think it was? Auberdine, or the area south of it (this was years ago; I kind of forget the names) was made Contested. IE: Players on a PvP server are auto-flagged PvP in that area.
It's a freaking level 20 questing area auto-flagging for PvP. Now keep in mind, all my friends LOVED PvP, so PvP serveres is all they'd play. And I'd play WoW to play with them, so I was forced onto PvP servers.

So cue me going to Auberdine, or that area south of Auberdine. Whatever it's called. Cue a level 60-ish player running up and down the main road of that little town, slaughtering every NPC, including the flight master. Literally just sitting there to kill every lowbie who comes by, doing their story quests because they cannot fight back.

So I, as a NElf, shadowmeld into a bush near the main road, and open a trouble ticket. I mean,t his guy is only here to slaughter anyone who comes by, and no one of proper level for the area can ever fight back. This has to be griefing, right?
Cue me sitting in that bush for SIX HOURS (I watched TV in the meantime.) while this guy just ran back and forth, slaughtering people solely to ruin their fun, and slaughtering the Flight Master so no one can escape.

So what did the GM say when he read my trouble ticket? 'Stop playing until he (the griefer) leaves or deal with it''.

Welp, I stopped playing all right. I also dealt with it; I canceled my entire account after a smarmy reply like that. And I quoted the GM's reply in the 'why are you cancelling?' survey. I've not played since. I don't accept the forced griefing should ever be allowed.

---

And let's face it, if you FORCE PvP on players, people of max level will go there with the sole intent to ruin lower level players' fun.

So no, I don't accept that PvE players should have to do PvP. This is just a lousy way to force people to play your way at best, and an attempt to ruin the enjoyment of others at worst. Keep your PvP as far away from me as possible. I don't play ESO to PvP and I never will. And I'm sure many others are the same way.

If the devs ever add a forced PvP area where gank squads can stop me from having fun until they get bored, I'll stop playing. I don't pay the monthly to be some 12 year old trolls entertainment.

So go enjoy your PvP but try to remember; just because you enjoy it does not mean everyone should have to do it.


(Oh, and that's not even my WORST PvP/griefer story in WoW. It was just the final straw. But this post has gotten too long as it is.)

WOW PVP is the definition of toxic. In the very early days it could be fun but these days (before"warmode") entire groups of people go to towns and kill all the quest givers just to keep low levels from flying to another town and completing quests. This is on PVE servers. Go into a BG and expect to encounter nothing but name calling, insults.

There were a group of us, me and my BF low level (12ish) and friends of ours max level. He and I would walk by alliance towns while our friends hid. When a ganker would come and try to bother us they would pop out of the bushes and kill them. I enjoyed it way more than I should have LOL

Akisohida wrote: »

So I, as a NElf, shadowmeld into a bush near the main road, and open a trouble ticket. I mean,t his guy is only here to slaughter anyone who comes by, and no one of proper level for the area can ever fight back. This has to be griefing, right?
Cue me sitting in that bush for SIX HOURS (I watched TV in the meantime.) while this guy just ran back and forth, slaughtering people solely to ruin their fun, and slaughtering the Flight Master so no one can escape.

Yep. And you had folks on the WoW PvP forum claiming that this kind of thing (lv60's squishing lowbies) was "true PvP" because it involved two players. Yeah.