Make PvP areas that PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE

Dusk_Coven · January 2020

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

How about we be honest and come out with it. You want to gank easy targets. Thats all this is.

In the pecking order of PvP you are 3 levels below the green PvPer newbie that refuses to learn how things work.

Yup I think this sums it up.

OP sounds like the people in SWTOR who hang out in otherwise completely dead open PvP instances waiting hours just for a PvE person to use the PvP instance for their questing (because those instances are so otherwise completely devoid of anyone, PvP or otherwise). Then they emerge from stealth and gank that person.

All the while safely away from real PvP competition. They could have used their time more productively queuing for PvP content. But no... Why? And SWTOR's open PvP instances are dead. Why?

zvavi · January 2020

To be completely honest, it is already like that. To be ready for everything pve toons need at least lvl 6 for barrier, warhorn, caltrops, vigor...

Carespanker · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

No

Sincerely, everyone who enjoys killing you for refusing to learn how to play the game or improve. Get good.

Smdh these pvers...

CompM4s · January 2020

maybe just let them play the game the way they want.

BackStabeth · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

I used to PVP, in other MMOs. Over the years I stopped engaging in PvP and for good reason.

PvP when MMOs first started was very different than the way it is now. In Ultima Online, it was much of the time single combat that others respected and didn't engage it except to observe. Later however, when PVE players were forced to deal with PvP players, groups of PvP players would stomp people just mining, or going about their PVE business. This continued until UO created a totally different area strictly for PvP and for PVE so that each type of player could engage in their own playstyle.

And that was the end of UO.

Fast forward a few decades later, things with PvP have become even more toxic. It seems to me that if those who love PvP are not allowed to grief and pubstomp others, to engage with people who want noting to do with PvP, that the PvP aspect of the game just simply dies off and soon the game itself. It doesn't seem that people want to engage in a challenge where they are fighting others of equal skill and character progression. It seem that instead people want to stomp others, period, with no challenge in engaging them at all. We see this as a fact in the way people consciously form groups to pub stomp. They are not looking for any challenge to over come, they are only looking to definitively stomp, with no challenge, others.

I stopped playing EVE Online because of it's encouraged, toxic environment. I have stopped playing many other MMOs because of the same reason all having to do with some form of PvP. If I were forced to engage in PvP when I have absolutely no interest in doing so, I would simply stop playing. I do not want to be part of a pub stomping group, that just seems to me like weak people getting together in gangs for the sole reason of easily beating random groups of other people only to make themselves feel better. There is no serious desire to engage in a challenge where they are equally matched and the outcome is not already decided prior to engaging in combat. It seems to me that most people that engage in PvP only do so if they know for a fact they will win, where is there any challenge in that?

The days of MMO PvP being engaging, challenging, exciting and honorable are long gone. I have yet to see any example in the past decade and more of any game, that can both be a financial success for the developing company, and a success in PvP content at the same time without allowing some aspects of pub stomping, of unfair PvP. I cannot think of one MMO that is able to provide PvP content and mechanics that are fair and even. When an MMO does attempt to provide fair mechanics and content for PvP, they don't seem to be around much longer than that.

So why not just allow people who wish to PvP to continue to do so in whatever way they wish without affecting those of us who have absolutely no interest in engaging in PvP anymore? If you want to join a pub and get stomped by pre-formed groups, go for it. If you want to be part of a pre-formed group that is sure to win every match you engage in, so be it. And if I don't want to engage in PvP I should not be forced to, ever, so be it. Everyone is happy.

Forcing someone to engage in content they do not wish to, really amounts to making them available to griefing.

Or allow me to put this in a different light. How about if we make it fair. In order for PVE players to get to their PVE content we force them to play PvP content, but in order for people to play PvP content, we force them to que for trials, dungeons, etc. If we forced PvP players to do that so that PVE players can play more PVE content, then forcing PVE players to play PvP content wouldn't seem so wrong perhaps.

jm42 · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

that's really stupid, i will just quite the game which make me to do the thing I don't like. I do PVP only to lvl skills from alliance war. and if I don't like PVP it doesn't mean that I am low skilled in it or can not learn. I just don't like it

Beardimus · January 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

The day this game starts forcing PvP on me is the day I will stop playing it. I have tried it, several times as the various modes of PvP in this game have been introduced, and it simply does not appeal to me at all.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

You might not like killing players but you have to do it in order to do pve.

I don't even understand what you mean. No, I don't "have to" do anything I don't like in this game, and that's how I want it.

Ok then why I have to do PvE in order to get gear for PvP sutff. I am literally forced to do pve content in order to compete in pvp. add to that getting undaunted passives.

PvP is a secondary part of ESO not the main focus so the game caters as such

Lol, good one.

Or it's the primary part of the game for those interested, and one of the viable end games considering end game PvE is limited.

Don't be ignorant

snoozy · January 2020

can't tell if this is a troll thread or actually serious. 🤔

if serious:

Katahdin wrote: »

If you force PVP in PVE areas, this game WILL be dead in a month.
The mass exodus will happen so fast, youll get sucked out the door in the winds it creates

literally this

Tandor · January 2020

Welcome to Gankers' Alley.

Welcome to an empty game.

Mitrenga · January 2020

Have you seen a PvP player complaining about not being able to kill someone in dungeons, PvE zones or trial areas during PvE events? Because it would be silly, wouldn't it?

If you want to do PvE quests in a PvP ZONE; you can just go and do it in a low pop campaign.

FierceSam · January 2020

It’s called Mid-Year Mayhem and it’s happening now.

PvE players don’t do PvP because of a lack of opportunity. They don’t do it because they either don’t like the idea or they don’t like the reality. Unless you actively enjoy being killed by trolls, the learning curve for PvP is painfully harsh.

ZOS does nothing to mitigate this. It doesn’t provide players with an easy way to switch their gear, skills, morphs and cp, which are very different for PvP success. It seems incapable of providing a BG Activity Finder that produces even numbered teams, let alone balanced ones.

Putting a PvP ‘area’ into a PvE zone wouldn’t work. How do I know? Because there is a PvP arena in Stormhaven. No one uses it. Not even the PvPers.

Kel · January 2020

I often just don't understand the mentality of this forum.

PvE players...Cyrodiil and IC are not the place for you if you don't enjoy PvP. Stop trying to make it a "safe space" for you to quest or explore. If you can't handle dying to other players, it's not FOR you.

PvP players...Overland is content designed for questing and exploring. It's not the place to find your thrill of battle of the rush of killing everything you see. If you don't enjoy story or questing, it's not FOR you.

Why is this so hard to understand for y'all? If you want the rewards from the activity in these places, you do the thing to get them, you don't necessarily have to enjoy it. If it's such an annoyance or inconvenience, then don't do it.

Stop trying to force your style of play in every aspect of this game.

FierceSam · January 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Forcibly funneling players through the most technically deficient and socially caustic part of the game is a poor customer retention strategy for a title heavily focused on pve questing.

We're asking to have people try pvp. You dont have to remind us of how end game PVE players act.

It doesn’t feel like you’re asking. It feels like you’re telling.

And when players say they don’t like PvP and they don’t want to do it, it feels like you’re no getting the message.

But hey, this is a troll thread anyway.

In 2 weeks Cyrodiil will be back to being a dead zone... and y’all can go back to writing nerf threads.

jm42 · January 2020

I played Lineage 2 where pvp and pk allowed just everywhere, so for many trolls was fun to just stand on the newbie farming spots and kill noobs. PK parties and clans existed and if you dont have high lvl friends which can protect you - then just do alt+f4. yes, we survived somehow but I dont want it in eso

Dusk_Coven · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

Probably not.
PvP is pretty much 100% grind. You do the same thing over and over and over. There's no story.
PvE is generally about story. That's why they are doing QUESTS -- they are advancing the story.
Totally different focus.
If they can't advance the story, they won't play -- that's why outside of events offering rewards, Cyrodiil and the IC are basically empty of PvE people even though there are story quests. ZOS can't lure PvE people into trying PvP. It doesn't work.

What you are talking about "players at their level" is a lack of proper leagues. You want these threads instead:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509224/pts-update-25-feedback-thread-for-battlegrounds-solo-queuing/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/509830/dont-play-pvp/

Aznarb · January 2020

Yeah.. Let say no, ok ?
I've chose eso because I'm not forced to PvP and the story is great.
I've no interest about the messy PvP of this game.
Maybe one day when they balance it so we don't see "tank-healer-dps" all in one.

If you wanna kill noobie just camp cyro town like bruma, plenty of people with the event.

Iccotak · January 2020

Alienoutlaw · January 2020

Beardimus wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

The day this game starts forcing PvP on me is the day I will stop playing it. I have tried it, several times as the various modes of PvP in this game have been introduced, and it simply does not appeal to me at all.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

You might not like killing players but you have to do it in order to do pve.

I don't even understand what you mean. No, I don't "have to" do anything I don't like in this game, and that's how I want it.

Ok then why I have to do PvE in order to get gear for PvP sutff. I am literally forced to do pve content in order to compete in pvp. add to that getting undaunted passives.

PvP is a secondary part of ESO not the main focus so the game caters as such

Lol, good one.

Or it's the primary part of the game for those interested, and one of the viable end games considering end game PvE is limited.

Don't be ignorant

and herein lays the problem, ppl actually think PvP is "end game" its not at all, in fact its the weak link and a major cause of half the imbalance, and toxicity within the game, as for PvE being limited i doubt very much we will be seeing a new keep to siege or bridge to fight over anytime soon, yet PvE has 6 new dungeons and a new trial coming, dont get me wrong i enjoy PvP but lets not fool ourselves or others by making it out to be anything more than it is, a toxic environment full of ego's that most players would rather stay away from.

CassandraGemini · January 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Forcibly funneling players through the most technically deficient and socially caustic part of the game is a poor customer retention strategy for a title heavily focused on pve questing.

We're asking to have people try pvp. You dont have to remind us of how end game PVE players act.

Someone else has said this, but the problem is that you seem to think that people who don't want to PvP simply haven't tried it yet, and would come to like it if the correct circumstances were met. Can you not imagine that very likely those people did try it and just didn't like it? Killing other players is not for everyone.

Or there might be a group of people - like me, for instance - who do like PvP in other kinds of games, where it works differently, like a real 1-on-1 situation where you duel fairly, no ganking, no skill spamming and so on. The Dark Souls series for example has this kind of PvP implemented, and I have always enjoyed it. In ESO, however, PvP is absolutely not for me. I find it clunky and hectic and spammy and it's just no fun for me. I'm absolutely not calling for it to be removed or anything, like I have seen here sometimes, because honestly, lots of people like it, and that's totally okay - to each their own.

But please, don't try to force something down people's throats that they want nothing to do with and don't just assume they "don't like it because they haven't tried it". I'm very sure that nothing could be further from the truth.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · January 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

You will find the majority of the PvE players would just stop going. The old argument that someone will like something it if they just try it has never worked and never will. Well it might work for a small minority. If players actually had an interest in PvP, or to keep things balanced, high level instanced content you wouldn't have to try and coerce them to try them out. Instead they would just do it on their own. Then there is the group that has tried it and wants nothing to do with it.

Your argument is invalid.

Because you don't like it? The reality is most PvE players want nothing to do with PvP and nothing you do will change that. Adding a forced PvP situation will only reinforce their beliefs. I'm sorry you don't like it but those are the facts whether you like them or not.

No, because you say it will never work then immediately contradict yourself by saying it might work. Realistically it would work more often than not.

There was nothing contradictory at all. Cherry picking a single sentence without the context of the remaining sentences isn't going to win an argument for forced PvP. As I stated those players would have tried PvP without being forced or heavily coerced to anyway.

If you want real life examples just look at the history of WoW where they have tried to force PvP on PvE players multiple times. Blizzard's and PvP player arguments were always "If we could get PvE types to try PvP they will love it and the shrinking PvP player base would be refreshed". All of the attempts of forced PvP failed miserably and resulted in doing nothing more than further alienating the PvE players base. You can even see it in their server mergers. It wasn't PvE servers merged in to PvP servers but the other way around. The mergers also resulted in more players quitting PvP since they could still play the game with long time friends which was the only reason they stuck with the PvP servers in the first place. Forced PvP never works with the exception of an extremely small group of players who would have tried PvP anyway if asked by someone to join them for a PvP run.

Performance issues not withstanding ESO has done a good job of handling PvP. Between Cyrodiil, IC, battle grounds and dueling those players that like to PvP can, those that might want to try PvP know where they can go to give it a try and those that do not want to PvP are not forced into it. PvE players can enter these areas with the risk of being killed by another player. However they still have the option as to whether they want to participate or not. The lack of participation has nothing to do with the fear of losing or the other often use argument, being killed. It is they just don't want to participate in PvP and nothing you try to do will change that.

I have a proposal. Why doesn't every PvP player ask a PvE player to PvP with them and offer to be their mentor. Or maybe some of the PvP guilds hold server events and assign mentors. Yes I said mentor. It would be a way for the PvP community to reach those few players who want to try PvP but aren't sure about the best way to do it. I think these will have better results than some in game gimmick designed to force players into PvP. Just be prepared for a lot of "No thank you" responses.

xXMeowMeowXx · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

I don’t know where you are going with this OP, Cx.

PvP is not going to hurt you. I never understood why people are so reluctant to play. It is just a game and you try to beat other players and meet the objectives in the content. That’s all....

This would be like people wanting to loot bosses in dungeons in PvE, without having to try and complete it properly.

PvP is fun and relaxing. There are no preset mechanics when playing a against multiple peeps in eso.

ESO’s version of PvP is also very forgiving compared to a lot of other games. Which is more then welcoming to everyone.

Just start like you did with any other activities in eso. I am sure your characters have died in dungeons, so what is the problem ?

NekoTashi · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

HELL NO! There are plenty of mmo's that has this feature, go play one of them. Don't try to convert this great game into the same thing that is already existing elsewhere.

Let's keep PvP into Cyrodiil.

AhPook_Is_Here · January 2020

I think this is a great idea, the starting area should be the first zone, one of the things I enjoyed most about lineage 2 was ganking people who were loading in the game for the first time in the starting area.

LoveForElderScrolls · January 2020

People here are saying I made this thread because I'm not good at PvP and want to kill PvE players because they are an easy target. false, it will be much harder for me to do PvP because there will be huge groups of PvE players running around trying to kill one or two PvP players that are also grouped. Then why I want this? It's because I prefer doing something in PvP rather than doing nothing because nobody is there to fight. I prefer the challenge of fighting a massive group of players rather than having no challenge. I'm not looking to kill players that don't know how to PvP, I like the challenge of being outnumbered. I also want the PvP aspects of the game to be enhanced and that's why i call for PvE players to join PvP despite the fact PvE players will outnumber me like nothing I have seen before.

Cirantille · January 2020

Imagine you are searching through your guild merch and you get ganked....

I'll pass

ZOS_Volpe · January 2020

Greetings,

We removed several comments that were baiting or off topic. As stated in our community rules:

The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

Thank you for your understanding

Unseelie · January 2020

People fight and argue about having to do a group dungeon to move forward and you believe that having people have to go through pvp to move forward would be a welcome experience?
Not only that but it has been proven again and again that when you have a choke point like that where pvp griefers know tha they can find those that do not pvp normally they will exploit the hell out of it.

Tandor · January 2020

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I think this is a great idea, the starting area should be the first zone, one of the things I enjoyed most about lineage 2 was ganking people who were loading in the game for the first time in the starting area.

One of my favourite memories of Lineage 2 is of killing a ganker the moment I started. We mustn't forget that gankers are usually the least competent PvPers who can never win a fairly balanced fight so they go for the trivial fights - and don't always win those either

!

Bizarre_Kismet · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

One of the reasons that PvE players might not be interested in doing PvP is that they don't find other players at their level that is easy for them to kill. By making PvP areas that other PvE players are there they can find other players at their level. If you make PvP areas that other PvE players have to pass by in order to continue doing PvE you can achieve this.

You will find the majority of the PvE players would just stop going. The old argument that someone will like something it if they just try it has never worked and never will. Well it might work for a small minority. If players actually had an interest in PvP, or to keep things balanced, high level instanced content you wouldn't have to try and coerce them to try them out. Instead they would just do it on their own. Then there is the group that has tried it and wants nothing to do with it.

Your argument is invalid.

No it's not. I just posted in another thread indicating I'm not interested in PvP. Me and my wife are quite happy to do PvE thank you.

There is already the PvP event on that I have to do in order to get tickets. Don't want to and can't at the moment as all seems locked.

What is the point in asking someone to play PvP when they don't want to, then make them have to if they want the tickets - yet not allow them to actually play the mode because it is locked? Am I supposed to wait all day as if I don't have other things to do?

Trying to make someone do something they don't want to doesn't seem a great strategy - then making it so they can't even get in seems worse.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · January 2020

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

People here are saying I made this thread because I'm not good at PvP and want to kill PvE players because they are an easy target. false, it will be much harder for me to do PvP because there will be huge groups of PvE players running around trying to kill one or two PvP players that are also grouped. Then why I want this? It's because I prefer doing something in PvP rather than doing nothing because nobody is there to fight. I prefer the challenge of fighting a massive group of players rather than having no challenge. I'm not looking to kill players that don't know how to PvP, I like the challenge of being outnumbered. I also want the PvP aspects of the game to be enhanced and that's why i call for PvE players to join PvP despite the fact PvE players will outnumber me like nothing I have seen before.

You've countered your own argument this isn't about ganking easy targets. If you truly wanted a challenge as you state you would be asking for a PvP mechanism that allows one/few PvP vs many PvP players. You could also go into Cyrodiil and visit a starting area that isn't for your alliance. I'm sure you will get plenty of opponents to fight. However if you really don't think PvP is a challenge and that there aren't enough PvP players then maybe ESO isn't the game for you. There are plenty of other MMO's out there where PvP is the priority and might fit better with how you want to play.