Anotherone773 wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.

Not really, if it was a real MMO you wouldn't have instanced 4 man dungeons, because they are firstly set outside of the persistent world which was the basis for MMOs and secondly because they are not 'massively multiplayer', they are just a co-op lobby sidegame that should never be in a real MMORPG.

But of course they are in ESO, because over the years themepark MMOs have become less and less "MMO" in order to accommodate the casual non-MMO playerbase that has infested them, accommodating solo players is just part of that.

You are trying to redefine the term MMO so that it fits your argument. Rather than just accept this is an MMO based on the Elder Scrolls series. It is closely based on TES games to the point of crippling itself as an mmo to hook all those single player fanboys that have never played an mmo and would not typically even attempt one. Using the series fame in order to lure SP fans in and the persistent bugs open world to lure in MMO fans.

iiYuki wrote: »

Every time a new DLC is announced its the same thing "I dont like dungeons, why are you locking story content in dungeons ZO$? How am I... a solo player suppose to enjoy this content". Here's the answer... Just queue like everyone else, anyone can complete a normal dungeon and the people who say "everyone is rushing and wont let me read the text", have you tried asking at the start of the run "Hello I have not done this dungeon before and need to do the quest would you mind waiting for me", 90% of people will happily wait for you.

************************** Snip *****************************

You repeated yourself over and over so I figured I would just stick with your main complaint, that being people who want more solo content.

Your premise from the title seems to be that since this is an MMORPG people should expect and accept that the content will be based on a team effort.

I am being sarcastic to make a point, so please forgive me. By this reasoning people should be collecting mats, picking chests, going on murder sprees in groups and not solo.

I started playing MMORPGs when Ultima Online was beta. Ultima Online was the first popular MMORPG and the second one ever created. As a matter of fact, most MMORPGs benchmark against Ultima Online's success. One thing that Ultima Online had going for it was that everything in the game could be done solo, and could be done as a group, or could be done solo, diving into a dungeon and fighting along side other solo players in gigantic groups. There was this one place people went to train in one of the dungeons where skeletons would attack, people would stand in a long line and kill them as then rushed forward. It was incredible, and awesome, you could do anything in that game, solo or as a group and people did.

The problem with MMORPGs today is that the gave developers force group play. That's akin to forcing people to socialize when they don't want to, or socializing on a game platform when they are not interested in that type of socializing. Almost all MMORPGs create game content in this way. However, all of them have some solo play incorporated as it's necessary. You don't want to go lock picking with a group for example, right?

So since there is solo game content, why not cater to both those who want to play in groups, and those who want to play solo? The content can be created to be just as hard for group play as solo play it wouldn't be a far stretch at all, and the game developers would be practicing a common concept that retailers have taken to sell goods, it's called mass customization, meaning the content would apply and be attractive to as many different people as possible, while still remaining the same essentially.

What I don't understand is your particular beef with people who want more solo content. Why complain? What is the point? It's not like people who desire more solo content are negatively affecting your game play at all. So why the post? What has happened in game to cause you to think of this as being so important to you, personally, that you felt the need to post about it? Those who want more solo content are not asking the game developers to create anything that you couldn't do, or wouldn't have access to. You however, are attempting to justify the game devs not creating more solo content, or by your very title any solo content just because the game is classified as an MMORPG.

I think you have gravely mistaken what MMORPG stands for, or what it means. It stands for "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" there is nothing in that, that means you must or should reserve content only for groups. It means "an online role-playing video game in which a very large number of people participate simultaneously." which again has nothing to do with people playing in groups. What it does suggest is that you are playing a game many others are playing.

In Ultima Online people could belong to a guild, and play all content solo forever without issue, and get the same gear as those that played in groups. As a matter of fact, there was a certain level of respect for those who could do the most difficult content, solo. You might ask why play with many other players and present that as an argument and if you did you would be missing all the other benefits in playing with other people, like buying and selling for example.

There is nothing wrong with solo content, and there is no prerequisite or understanding that playing an MMORPG means you must play with groups. Imagine the player base increase, if ESO catered to both solo players and group players. I don't see any issues with it at all, I see no problems other than those that might be the responsibility of the developers. As a matter of fact, considering Skyrim is a single player game and many people come to ESO because of Skyrim, it seems natural that the game devs would allow and create far more solo game content.

Your argument is bunk, being an MMORPG the game already has a lot of solo content that is intended to be solo content, and it does not mean that there has to be any group content, or solo content. It's not mutually inclusive or inclusive in other words. And if people are requesting more solo content, there is absolutely no reason to prevent it, or to complain about it as it would not affect your personal gameplay or that of anyone you know, at all, not unless solo content was created to be only solo content beyond what is already incorporated in the game.

BackStabeth wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.

Not really, if it was a real MMO you wouldn't have instanced 4 man dungeons, because they are firstly set outside of the persistent world which was the basis for MMOs and secondly because they are not 'massively multiplayer', they are just a co-op lobby sidegame that should never be in a real MMORPG.

[Edit to remove bait]

Iccotak wrote: »

@Sylosi
have you played WoW? One of the most successful MMOs of all time? it also has instanced dungeons and raids

Phffft, have you played the very first MMORPG's ever created? None of them had instanced dungeons. I would argue that MMO's evolve over time so that the game developers make more profit, period. Everything including the evolution of the game play is created to make more profit, period. That doesn't mean it's the best thing for the players themselves.

I used to love playing a murder character in Ultima Online, and wait for players to kill some really hard, difficult boss in a dungeon and then jump out and kill them all for the loot. I also used to really enjoy diving into a dungeon, never knowing how many people might be fighting a dragon, arriving and finding whatever and going for it anyway or finding a bunch of people. It was far more exciting than being teamed up with random people, and forget about doing trials unless you specifically belong to a guild that does trials.

It seems the size and scope of ESO has also created problems where you cannot have access to dungeons unless they are instanced. Too many people playing all at one time would make the dungeons unplayable. Ultima Online got around this problem by having multiple servers and only so many people per server. But I have to say, it was incredibly fun playing an MMO that did not have instanced dungeons, far more fun than how MMOs are today.

Ultima Online was so popular and so many people loved it so much that people now operate private servers. It's going on 23 years and still people don't want to give up playing it. Not many MMO's can claim anything close to that. WOW is a full 7 years behind and nobody operated a private WOW server.

I would also argue that WOW is a far better example of how MMOs warp and change to make more profit, and not to benefit players. I get it, they are in business to make a profit but how might they do things if profit wasn't the driving force? I think you would see a very different WOW if they were responsible to creating a game that people enjoyed more, rather than creating a game that tricks people into spending more money while investing as little as possible. I can just imagine what the size and scope of a dungeon would have to be to include all players online, all at once. That would really be a WOW moment.

Anyway, WOW is a bad, horribly bad example. The success of an MMO does not mean that's a good example of how to create MMO's for a person's pleasure and enjoyment. It's only a good example of how to monetize a game to make the most profit for the longest length of time, that's it.

idk wrote: »

I expect people know this is an MMORPG. It is merely that many people just want what they want and could care less how if affects the game. They just create justifications or fabricate reasons it is good for the game. It is part of the selfish nature that some of us posses.