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Do people not realise this game is a MMO foremost?
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haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, thing is, we're talking about 4 dungeons per year. For anyone who plays semi-regulalry it's not even 1% of the playtime. If someone can't handle 4 social interactions online, maybe online games are not for them.
And yes, buying an mmo and hoping to be able to do 100% of the content solo is like buying a shooter and being shocked by the fact that you have to shoot people... Should companies also make violence-free shooters, strategy-free RTS, and simulation-free sims?
ESO already provides a lot of freedom for solo players. But expecting to do everything solo is just very naive.
MMO is a much broader category than shooter, and simply means there are many people playing online. Doesn't say anything about what the mechanics of a MMO have to be or how it should work. Shooter is, on the other hand, not vague at all, and instead, is a very specific mechanic.
At this point, I can literally just post links to other posts in this same thread to refute your points.If all you've got to counter that is "MMO = multiplayer" well then... I don't think we can really have a nuanced conversation about what's best for the game overall.Darkstorne wrote: »At the game's launch there were numerous people like yourself saying "If you don't like not being able to explore anywhere at any level, go play a single player Elder Scrolls game! Do you not realize this is an MMO?" Those comments aged well
And final point of the day - according to the devs, TES is not an MMO "foremost": “We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
We can even go back to my first post :I think an MMO that offers options that fulfill all of those moods and player types is ultimately more successful anyways because it can draw in more people and keep those people playing longer. More people spending more valuable time in game means a more financially stable game, which is - at the end of the day - better for everyone.
ESO actually follows pretty typical mmo routines. There is a difference between a regular RPG and online RPG. And if devs dont actually treat ESO as an mmo, then why do they keep nominating it for the "best mmo"?
And if we're talking about financial incentives, repeatable group activities add much more replayability then story quests. I like story dlcs, but it's months worth of hard work resulting in something that you will burn through in a few days. Dungeons, trials and pvp. on the other hand, are something that people would play over and over again. Finding friends is also important, a lot of people are willing to overlook the issues of the game as long as their friends keep playing it. So there should be some sort of incentive to encourage people to try it.
And again, we're talking about very small portion of the content, and if its anything like Wrathstone, you will learn about the story regardless. They'll just tell you that someone else found the artifacts or whatever is hidden in these new dungeons.
The point is ithe dev's want it to be something different from your average MMO, making all these one trick pony posts about how it's "an MMO" pointless. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't care if you call it an MMO or not. My point stands.
As for repeat ability - sure. But creating a story mode for people to enjoy content that they were going to make anyways is not the same as creating entirely new content for that reason. People are still going to play the dungeon over and over again. Some just are going to do it in a different mode.
Also, for heaven's sake, the people asking for this mode either a : don't do dungeons or b : do them with guilds or friends. Section a means we'd be getting more people into content they're making anyways (and possibly getting money). Section b is unimportant in this context because they'll likely repeat the content and socialize anyways.
As for friends :People not being social enough (especially in a game) is a personal perspective thing and has absolutely nothing to do with their social health in general. Additionally, gating content behind socializing will not force people to socialize. They simply won't participate, and more importantly, buy the content. Those that already socialize with friends or guilds to do the content will continue to do so, just in story mode.4 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So you agree that no one should be able to Solo dungeons as they are now then, right? Because that creates solo instances. What about groups of two? Three?
No. I dont agree. My reasoning is entirely different though, end game solo content currently has only vMA. The option to improvise endgame solo content is important by itself
Then the idea that people creating solo instances is moot. It can and does happen already and unless we're going to say a solo normal instance is more valuable because it's normal and not story mode, then there really isn't a point to be made here unless ZOS says another mode will blow things up.
Story mode has no effect on end game solo content. Yes, we need more end game solo content - but that's neither here nor there, and is a different issue. Having one doesn't mean we can't have the other. My point, as it's been this entire thread, is that the more options we have, the better.
If, if they are able to create the extra instances it will generate, without making half the eu server have 300 ping, or lag behind creating new instances, i will agree. More options is better. And story mode can be an option.
Agreed! And I'm not saying you're wrong. It could cause an issue - and if that's the case, I won't advocate for it.
0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, thing is, we're talking about 4 dungeons per year. For anyone who plays semi-regulalry it's not even 1% of the playtime. If someone can't handle 4 social interactions online, maybe online games are not for them.
And yes, buying an mmo and hoping to be able to do 100% of the content solo is like buying a shooter and being shocked by the fact that you have to shoot people... Should companies also make violence-free shooters, strategy-free RTS, and simulation-free sims?
ESO already provides a lot of freedom for solo players. But expecting to do everything solo is just very naive.
MMO is a much broader category than shooter, and simply means there are many people playing online. Doesn't say anything about what the mechanics of a MMO have to be or how it should work. Shooter is, on the other hand, not vague at all, and instead, is a very specific mechanic.
At this point, I can literally just post links to other posts in this same thread to refute your points.If all you've got to counter that is "MMO = multiplayer" well then... I don't think we can really have a nuanced conversation about what's best for the game overall.Darkstorne wrote: »At the game's launch there were numerous people like yourself saying "If you don't like not being able to explore anywhere at any level, go play a single player Elder Scrolls game! Do you not realize this is an MMO?" Those comments aged well
And final point of the day - according to the devs, TES is not an MMO "foremost": “We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
We can even go back to my first post :I think an MMO that offers options that fulfill all of those moods and player types is ultimately more successful anyways because it can draw in more people and keep those people playing longer. More people spending more valuable time in game means a more financially stable game, which is - at the end of the day - better for everyone.
ESO actually follows pretty typical mmo routines. There is a difference between a regular RPG and online RPG. And if devs dont actually treat ESO as an mmo, then why do they keep nominating it for the "best mmo"?
And if we're talking about financial incentives, repeatable group activities add much more replayability then story quests. I like story dlcs, but it's months worth of hard work resulting in something that you will burn through in a few days. Dungeons, trials and pvp. on the other hand, are something that people would play over and over again. Finding friends is also important, a lot of people are willing to overlook the issues of the game as long as their friends keep playing it. So there should be some sort of incentive to encourage people to try it.
And again, we're talking about very small portion of the content, and if its anything like Wrathstone, you will learn about the story regardless. They'll just tell you that someone else found the artifacts or whatever is hidden in these new dungeons.
The point is ithe dev's want it to be something different from your average MMO, making all these one trick pony posts about how it's "an MMO" pointless. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't care if you call it an MMO or not. My point stands.
As for repeat ability - sure. But creating a story mode for people to enjoy content that they were going to make anyways is not the same as creating entirely new content for that reason. People are still going to play the dungeon over and over again. Some just are going to do it in a different mode.
Also, for heaven's sake, the people asking for this mode either a : don't do dungeons or b : do them with guilds or friends. Section a means we'd be getting more people into content they're making anyways (and possibly getting money). Section b is unimportant in this context because they'll likely repeat the content and socialize anyways.
As for friends :People not being social enough (especially in a game) is a personal perspective thing and has absolutely nothing to do with their social health in general. Additionally, gating content behind socializing will not force people to socialize. They simply won't participate, and more importantly, buy the content. Those that already socialize with friends or guilds to do the content will continue to do so, just in story mode.
I actually was one of these people until I tried to do a dungeon. If there wasnt an incentive to try it, I'd probably quit the game (and stopped paying) a long time ago. And that's not just me, I know a decent amount of people who also started as solo players but stayed because of the community.
Normal mode is easy emough that you can just grab 3 fellow roleplayers and do it. If all those people who complain about not having solo mode would cooperate, it wouldnt be a problem at all.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU3 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, thing is, we're talking about 4 dungeons per year. For anyone who plays semi-regulalry it's not even 1% of the playtime. If someone can't handle 4 social interactions online, maybe online games are not for them.
And yes, buying an mmo and hoping to be able to do 100% of the content solo is like buying a shooter and being shocked by the fact that you have to shoot people... Should companies also make violence-free shooters, strategy-free RTS, and simulation-free sims?
ESO already provides a lot of freedom for solo players. But expecting to do everything solo is just very naive.
MMO is a much broader category than shooter, and simply means there are many people playing online. Doesn't say anything about what the mechanics of a MMO have to be or how it should work. Shooter is, on the other hand, not vague at all, and instead, is a very specific mechanic.
At this point, I can literally just post links to other posts in this same thread to refute your points.If all you've got to counter that is "MMO = multiplayer" well then... I don't think we can really have a nuanced conversation about what's best for the game overall.Darkstorne wrote: »At the game's launch there were numerous people like yourself saying "If you don't like not being able to explore anywhere at any level, go play a single player Elder Scrolls game! Do you not realize this is an MMO?" Those comments aged well
And final point of the day - according to the devs, TES is not an MMO "foremost": “We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
We can even go back to my first post :I think an MMO that offers options that fulfill all of those moods and player types is ultimately more successful anyways because it can draw in more people and keep those people playing longer. More people spending more valuable time in game means a more financially stable game, which is - at the end of the day - better for everyone.
ESO actually follows pretty typical mmo routines. There is a difference between a regular RPG and online RPG. And if devs dont actually treat ESO as an mmo, then why do they keep nominating it for the "best mmo"?
And if we're talking about financial incentives, repeatable group activities add much more replayability then story quests. I like story dlcs, but it's months worth of hard work resulting in something that you will burn through in a few days. Dungeons, trials and pvp. on the other hand, are something that people would play over and over again. Finding friends is also important, a lot of people are willing to overlook the issues of the game as long as their friends keep playing it. So there should be some sort of incentive to encourage people to try it.
And again, we're talking about very small portion of the content, and if its anything like Wrathstone, you will learn about the story regardless. They'll just tell you that someone else found the artifacts or whatever is hidden in these new dungeons.
The point is ithe dev's want it to be something different from your average MMO, making all these one trick pony posts about how it's "an MMO" pointless. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't care if you call it an MMO or not. My point stands.
As for repeat ability - sure. But creating a story mode for people to enjoy content that they were going to make anyways is not the same as creating entirely new content for that reason. People are still going to play the dungeon over and over again. Some just are going to do it in a different mode.
Also, for heaven's sake, the people asking for this mode either a : don't do dungeons or b : do them with guilds or friends. Section a means we'd be getting more people into content they're making anyways (and possibly getting money). Section b is unimportant in this context because they'll likely repeat the content and socialize anyways.
As for friends :People not being social enough (especially in a game) is a personal perspective thing and has absolutely nothing to do with their social health in general. Additionally, gating content behind socializing will not force people to socialize. They simply won't participate, and more importantly, buy the content. Those that already socialize with friends or guilds to do the content will continue to do so, just in story mode.
I actually was one of these people until I tried to do a dungeon. If there wasnt an incentive to try it, I'd probably quit the game (and stopped paying) a long time ago. And that's not just me, I know a decent amount of people who also started as solo players but stayed because of the community.
Normal mode is easy emough that you can just grab 3 fellow roleplayers and do it. If all those people who complain about not having solo mode would cooperate, it wouldnt be a problem at all.
If they were able to incentivize you to try dungeons, you are not a part of the group that I am talking about. I know a decent amount of people who will not touch dungeons the way they are now or with other people. We know different people.
I shall refer you back to Linaleahits NOT about dps or social pressure. its being able to explore, to read/listen to ALL the dialogue including those exploratory options that do not advance the quest but rather give you more lore, to be able to talk to NPC's every step of the way, becasue guess what? they have EXTRA dialogue, even if it doesn't progress the quest, to stay back and watch those in game npc interactions, to go out of the normal way to explore and read the scattered lore, to take screen shots and i can keep going.
when you tell people that you are doing the quest, they generally understand it as "I'm trying to get the skill point" and the more reasonable ones will wait long enough for that and might kill an optional boss or 2 that are necessary, but they are NOT going to stand around her for 5 or more minutes after every boss fight, waiting for you to finish all the extra stuff.
it is possible to arrange for a group of other people who are similar enough - its not easy, but its possible.
but its similar enough never exactly the same, it takes serious scheduling finagling in advance, to make sure you are all available at the same time on the same day, long enough. its about putting undue pressure on each other - to hurry up, or to wait. because its rarely perfect groups of 4 people on the same page, if you didn't arrange quickly enough - you may end up left out, or hoping there are enough people kind enough to do that story all over again with you - at your pace.
doing a story is a very different animal from progressing through fights as a team. it has a very different vibe and pace to it.
2 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, thing is, we're talking about 4 dungeons per year. For anyone who plays semi-regulalry it's not even 1% of the playtime. If someone can't handle 4 social interactions online, maybe online games are not for them.
And yes, buying an mmo and hoping to be able to do 100% of the content solo is like buying a shooter and being shocked by the fact that you have to shoot people... Should companies also make violence-free shooters, strategy-free RTS, and simulation-free sims?
ESO already provides a lot of freedom for solo players. But expecting to do everything solo is just very naive.
MMO is a much broader category than shooter, and simply means there are many people playing online. Doesn't say anything about what the mechanics of a MMO have to be or how it should work. Shooter is, on the other hand, not vague at all, and instead, is a very specific mechanic.
At this point, I can literally just post links to other posts in this same thread to refute your points.If all you've got to counter that is "MMO = multiplayer" well then... I don't think we can really have a nuanced conversation about what's best for the game overall.Darkstorne wrote: »At the game's launch there were numerous people like yourself saying "If you don't like not being able to explore anywhere at any level, go play a single player Elder Scrolls game! Do you not realize this is an MMO?" Those comments aged well
And final point of the day - according to the devs, TES is not an MMO "foremost": “We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
We can even go back to my first post :I think an MMO that offers options that fulfill all of those moods and player types is ultimately more successful anyways because it can draw in more people and keep those people playing longer. More people spending more valuable time in game means a more financially stable game, which is - at the end of the day - better for everyone.
ESO actually follows pretty typical mmo routines. There is a difference between a regular RPG and online RPG. And if devs dont actually treat ESO as an mmo, then why do they keep nominating it for the "best mmo"?
And if we're talking about financial incentives, repeatable group activities add much more replayability then story quests. I like story dlcs, but it's months worth of hard work resulting in something that you will burn through in a few days. Dungeons, trials and pvp. on the other hand, are something that people would play over and over again. Finding friends is also important, a lot of people are willing to overlook the issues of the game as long as their friends keep playing it. So there should be some sort of incentive to encourage people to try it.
And again, we're talking about very small portion of the content, and if its anything like Wrathstone, you will learn about the story regardless. They'll just tell you that someone else found the artifacts or whatever is hidden in these new dungeons.
The point is ithe dev's want it to be something different from your average MMO, making all these one trick pony posts about how it's "an MMO" pointless. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't care if you call it an MMO or not. My point stands.
As for repeat ability - sure. But creating a story mode for people to enjoy content that they were going to make anyways is not the same as creating entirely new content for that reason. People are still going to play the dungeon over and over again. Some just are going to do it in a different mode.
Also, for heaven's sake, the people asking for this mode either a : don't do dungeons or b : do them with guilds or friends. Section a means we'd be getting more people into content they're making anyways (and possibly getting money). Section b is unimportant in this context because they'll likely repeat the content and socialize anyways.
As for friends :People not being social enough (especially in a game) is a personal perspective thing and has absolutely nothing to do with their social health in general. Additionally, gating content behind socializing will not force people to socialize. They simply won't participate, and more importantly, buy the content. Those that already socialize with friends or guilds to do the content will continue to do so, just in story mode.
I actually was one of these people until I tried to do a dungeon. If there wasnt an incentive to try it, I'd probably quit the game (and stopped paying) a long time ago. And that's not just me, I know a decent amount of people who also started as solo players but stayed because of the community.
Normal mode is easy emough that you can just grab 3 fellow roleplayers and do it. If all those people who complain about not having solo mode would cooperate, it wouldnt be a problem at all.
If they were able to incentivize you to try dungeons, you are not a part of the group that I am talking about. I know a decent amount of people who will not touch dungeons the way they are now or with other people. We know different people.
I shall refer you back to Linaleahits NOT about dps or social pressure. its being able to explore, to read/listen to ALL the dialogue including those exploratory options that do not advance the quest but rather give you more lore, to be able to talk to NPC's every step of the way, becasue guess what? they have EXTRA dialogue, even if it doesn't progress the quest, to stay back and watch those in game npc interactions, to go out of the normal way to explore and read the scattered lore, to take screen shots and i can keep going.
when you tell people that you are doing the quest, they generally understand it as "I'm trying to get the skill point" and the more reasonable ones will wait long enough for that and might kill an optional boss or 2 that are necessary, but they are NOT going to stand around her for 5 or more minutes after every boss fight, waiting for you to finish all the extra stuff.
it is possible to arrange for a group of other people who are similar enough - its not easy, but its possible.
but its similar enough never exactly the same, it takes serious scheduling finagling in advance, to make sure you are all available at the same time on the same day, long enough. its about putting undue pressure on each other - to hurry up, or to wait. because its rarely perfect groups of 4 people on the same page, if you didn't arrange quickly enough - you may end up left out, or hoping there are enough people kind enough to do that story all over again with you - at your pace.
doing a story is a very different animal from progressing through fights as a team. it has a very different vibe and pace to it.
It is still sort of a self-imposed issue. There is a solution (find a casual/rp guild), and if people don't want that, it's their choice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm not necessarily against solo mode (with no gear drops or achievements), but it wouldn't even be needed if people weren't so afraid of communicating.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, thing is, we're talking about 4 dungeons per year. For anyone who plays semi-regulalry it's not even 1% of the playtime. If someone can't handle 4 social interactions online, maybe online games are not for them.
And yes, buying an mmo and hoping to be able to do 100% of the content solo is like buying a shooter and being shocked by the fact that you have to shoot people... Should companies also make violence-free shooters, strategy-free RTS, and simulation-free sims?
ESO already provides a lot of freedom for solo players. But expecting to do everything solo is just very naive.
MMO is a much broader category than shooter, and simply means there are many people playing online. Doesn't say anything about what the mechanics of a MMO have to be or how it should work. Shooter is, on the other hand, not vague at all, and instead, is a very specific mechanic.
At this point, I can literally just post links to other posts in this same thread to refute your points.If all you've got to counter that is "MMO = multiplayer" well then... I don't think we can really have a nuanced conversation about what's best for the game overall.Darkstorne wrote: »At the game's launch there were numerous people like yourself saying "If you don't like not being able to explore anywhere at any level, go play a single player Elder Scrolls game! Do you not realize this is an MMO?" Those comments aged well
And final point of the day - according to the devs, TES is not an MMO "foremost": “We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
We can even go back to my first post :I think an MMO that offers options that fulfill all of those moods and player types is ultimately more successful anyways because it can draw in more people and keep those people playing longer. More people spending more valuable time in game means a more financially stable game, which is - at the end of the day - better for everyone.
ESO actually follows pretty typical mmo routines. There is a difference between a regular RPG and online RPG. And if devs dont actually treat ESO as an mmo, then why do they keep nominating it for the "best mmo"?
And if we're talking about financial incentives, repeatable group activities add much more replayability then story quests. I like story dlcs, but it's months worth of hard work resulting in something that you will burn through in a few days. Dungeons, trials and pvp. on the other hand, are something that people would play over and over again. Finding friends is also important, a lot of people are willing to overlook the issues of the game as long as their friends keep playing it. So there should be some sort of incentive to encourage people to try it.
And again, we're talking about very small portion of the content, and if its anything like Wrathstone, you will learn about the story regardless. They'll just tell you that someone else found the artifacts or whatever is hidden in these new dungeons.
The point is ithe dev's want it to be something different from your average MMO, making all these one trick pony posts about how it's "an MMO" pointless. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't care if you call it an MMO or not. My point stands.
As for repeat ability - sure. But creating a story mode for people to enjoy content that they were going to make anyways is not the same as creating entirely new content for that reason. People are still going to play the dungeon over and over again. Some just are going to do it in a different mode.
Also, for heaven's sake, the people asking for this mode either a : don't do dungeons or b : do them with guilds or friends. Section a means we'd be getting more people into content they're making anyways (and possibly getting money). Section b is unimportant in this context because they'll likely repeat the content and socialize anyways.
As for friends :People not being social enough (especially in a game) is a personal perspective thing and has absolutely nothing to do with their social health in general. Additionally, gating content behind socializing will not force people to socialize. They simply won't participate, and more importantly, buy the content. Those that already socialize with friends or guilds to do the content will continue to do so, just in story mode.
I actually was one of these people until I tried to do a dungeon. If there wasnt an incentive to try it, I'd probably quit the game (and stopped paying) a long time ago. And that's not just me, I know a decent amount of people who also started as solo players but stayed because of the community.
Normal mode is easy emough that you can just grab 3 fellow roleplayers and do it. If all those people who complain about not having solo mode would cooperate, it wouldnt be a problem at all.
If they were able to incentivize you to try dungeons, you are not a part of the group that I am talking about. I know a decent amount of people who will not touch dungeons the way they are now or with other people. We know different people.
I shall refer you back to Linaleahits NOT about dps or social pressure. its being able to explore, to read/listen to ALL the dialogue including those exploratory options that do not advance the quest but rather give you more lore, to be able to talk to NPC's every step of the way, becasue guess what? they have EXTRA dialogue, even if it doesn't progress the quest, to stay back and watch those in game npc interactions, to go out of the normal way to explore and read the scattered lore, to take screen shots and i can keep going.
when you tell people that you are doing the quest, they generally understand it as "I'm trying to get the skill point" and the more reasonable ones will wait long enough for that and might kill an optional boss or 2 that are necessary, but they are NOT going to stand around her for 5 or more minutes after every boss fight, waiting for you to finish all the extra stuff.
it is possible to arrange for a group of other people who are similar enough - its not easy, but its possible.
but its similar enough never exactly the same, it takes serious scheduling finagling in advance, to make sure you are all available at the same time on the same day, long enough. its about putting undue pressure on each other - to hurry up, or to wait. because its rarely perfect groups of 4 people on the same page, if you didn't arrange quickly enough - you may end up left out, or hoping there are enough people kind enough to do that story all over again with you - at your pace.
doing a story is a very different animal from progressing through fights as a team. it has a very different vibe and pace to it.
It is still sort of a self-imposed issue. There is a solution (find a casual/rp guild), and if people don't want that, it's their choice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm not necessarily against solo mode (with no gear drops or achievements), but it wouldn't even be needed if people weren't so afraid of communicating.
Of course there wouldn't be gear drops or achievements! I am with you there 1000%. It should only be about the story (although I think you should get the skill point, since that's from the story). I also don't think you should get the undaunted rep, or fighters guild (where applicable). Story mode - not super easy, I get all the stuff for nothing mode.
I still disagree that the only issue here is communication for all of the reasons discussed in this thread previously, but honestly, I just don't think we're going to see eye to eye on that one. I'm fine to agree to disagree there.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheNuminous1 wrote: »ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.
I seem to recall watching a stream in which the developers actually stated that they see ESO as an RPG first and foremost. So it doesn't "pretend" to be anything but an MMO, no - the developers explicitly see it otherwise.
ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
BOOM.
Not even the directors and people who make the game call it an mmo. Whole argument demolished with a quote hell ya!
Yeah they backpedaled on that aged ago, lol.
Also , funny how the actual game description says otherwise
Interesting, considering this is the game description :
"Join over 13 million players and discover an adventure unlike anything else in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe."
Written by the people who made it, on the website, under the header "what is eso?"
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/discover
Normally I wouldn't press this kind of issue, but if the argument that keeps getting brought up is basically only "It's an MMO!", then well, we're kind of forced to discuss it.
Title:The Elder Scrolls® Online: Greymoor™
Genre:Massively Multiplayer, RPG
Developer:ZeniMax Online Studios
Publisher:Bethesda Softworks
Release Date:June 2020
Languages:English, German, French
You were saying?2 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheNuminous1 wrote: »ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.
I seem to recall watching a stream in which the developers actually stated that they see ESO as an RPG first and foremost. So it doesn't "pretend" to be anything but an MMO, no - the developers explicitly see it otherwise.
ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
BOOM.
Not even the directors and people who make the game call it an mmo. Whole argument demolished with a quote hell ya!
Yeah they backpedaled on that aged ago, lol.
Also , funny how the actual game description says otherwise
Interesting, considering this is the game description :
"Join over 13 million players and discover an adventure unlike anything else in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe."
Written by the people who made it, on the website, under the header "what is eso?"
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/discover
Normally I wouldn't press this kind of issue, but if the argument that keeps getting brought up is basically only "It's an MMO!", then well, we're kind of forced to discuss it.
Title:The Elder Scrolls® Online: Greymoor™
Genre:Massively Multiplayer, RPG
Developer:ZeniMax Online Studios
Publisher:Bethesda Softworks
Release Date:June 2020
Languages:English, German, French
You were saying?
Source? If it's not from ZOS and on the website, it has nothing to do with my point.1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheNuminous1 wrote: »ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.
I seem to recall watching a stream in which the developers actually stated that they see ESO as an RPG first and foremost. So it doesn't "pretend" to be anything but an MMO, no - the developers explicitly see it otherwise.
ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
BOOM.
Not even the directors and people who make the game call it an mmo. Whole argument demolished with a quote hell ya!
Yeah they backpedaled on that aged ago, lol.
Also , funny how the actual game description says otherwise
Interesting, considering this is the game description :
"Join over 13 million players and discover an adventure unlike anything else in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe."
Written by the people who made it, on the website, under the header "what is eso?"
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/discover
Normally I wouldn't press this kind of issue, but if the argument that keeps getting brought up is basically only "It's an MMO!", then well, we're kind of forced to discuss it.
Title:The Elder Scrolls® Online: Greymoor™
Genre:Massively Multiplayer, RPG
Developer:ZeniMax Online Studios
Publisher:Bethesda Softworks
Release Date:June 2020
Languages:English, German, French
You were saying?
Source? If it's not from ZOS and on the website, it has nothing to do with my point.
Its from their website. This website.
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/store/product/eso_greymoor_edition_ce
Scroll to the bottom.2 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheNuminous1 wrote: »ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.
I seem to recall watching a stream in which the developers actually stated that they see ESO as an RPG first and foremost. So it doesn't "pretend" to be anything but an MMO, no - the developers explicitly see it otherwise.
ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
BOOM.
Not even the directors and people who make the game call it an mmo. Whole argument demolished with a quote hell ya!
Yeah they backpedaled on that aged ago, lol.
Also , funny how the actual game description says otherwise
Interesting, considering this is the game description :
"Join over 13 million players and discover an adventure unlike anything else in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe."
Written by the people who made it, on the website, under the header "what is eso?"
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/discover
Normally I wouldn't press this kind of issue, but if the argument that keeps getting brought up is basically only "It's an MMO!", then well, we're kind of forced to discuss it.
Title:The Elder Scrolls® Online: Greymoor™
Genre:Massively Multiplayer, RPG
Developer:ZeniMax Online Studios
Publisher:Bethesda Softworks
Release Date:June 2020
Languages:English, German, French
You were saying?
Source? If it's not from ZOS and on the website, it has nothing to do with my point.TheNuminous1 wrote: »ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.
I seem to recall watching a stream in which the developers actually stated that they see ESO as an RPG first and foremost. So it doesn't "pretend" to be anything but an MMO, no - the developers explicitly see it otherwise.
ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
BOOM.
Not even the directors and people who make the game call it an mmo. Whole argument demolished with a quote hell ya!
Yeah they backpedaled on that aged ago, lol.
Also , funny how the actual game description says otherwise
Interesting, considering this is the game description :
"Join over 13 million players and discover an adventure unlike anything else in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe."
Written by the people who made it, on the website, under the header "what is eso?"
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/discover
Normally I wouldn't press this kind of issue, but if the argument that keeps getting brought up is basically only "It's an MMO!", then well, we're kind of forced to discuss it.
Title:The Elder Scrolls® Online: Greymoor™
Genre:Massively Multiplayer, RPG
Developer:ZeniMax Online Studios
Publisher:Bethesda Softworks
Release Date:June 2020
Languages:English, German, French
You were saying?
Source? If it's not from ZOS and on the website, it has nothing to do with my point.
Its from their website. This website.
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/store/product/eso_greymoor_edition_ce
Scroll to the bottom.
Thank you for the link - that makes it much easier to verify your source.
So yes, they call it an MMO under their categorization of the game (likely for sales organization purposes). That doesn't change the overall description of the game, the statements from the dev's themselves, the fact that this MMO has an entirely different fanbase makeup, or that being an MMO means nothing other than their are lots of players online playing in the same instance. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't care if you call it an MMO or not. My point stands. If the only thing you have to add is a genre, then there's nothing more to discuss because that's not a good argument for sooo soooo many reasons that I have already talked to death here. You're welcome to read the arguments I already made.2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, thing is, we're talking about 4 dungeons per year. For anyone who plays semi-regulalry it's not even 1% of the playtime. If someone can't handle 4 social interactions online, maybe online games are not for them.
And yes, buying an mmo and hoping to be able to do 100% of the content solo is like buying a shooter and being shocked by the fact that you have to shoot people... Should companies also make violence-free shooters, strategy-free RTS, and simulation-free sims?
ESO already provides a lot of freedom for solo players. But expecting to do everything solo is just very naive.
MMO is a much broader category than shooter, and simply means there are many people playing online. Doesn't say anything about what the mechanics of a MMO have to be or how it should work. Shooter is, on the other hand, not vague at all, and instead, is a very specific mechanic.
At this point, I can literally just post links to other posts in this same thread to refute your points.If all you've got to counter that is "MMO = multiplayer" well then... I don't think we can really have a nuanced conversation about what's best for the game overall.Darkstorne wrote: »At the game's launch there were numerous people like yourself saying "If you don't like not being able to explore anywhere at any level, go play a single player Elder Scrolls game! Do you not realize this is an MMO?" Those comments aged well
And final point of the day - according to the devs, TES is not an MMO "foremost": “We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
We can even go back to my first post :I think an MMO that offers options that fulfill all of those moods and player types is ultimately more successful anyways because it can draw in more people and keep those people playing longer. More people spending more valuable time in game means a more financially stable game, which is - at the end of the day - better for everyone.
ESO actually follows pretty typical mmo routines. There is a difference between a regular RPG and online RPG. And if devs dont actually treat ESO as an mmo, then why do they keep nominating it for the "best mmo"?
And if we're talking about financial incentives, repeatable group activities add much more replayability then story quests. I like story dlcs, but it's months worth of hard work resulting in something that you will burn through in a few days. Dungeons, trials and pvp. on the other hand, are something that people would play over and over again. Finding friends is also important, a lot of people are willing to overlook the issues of the game as long as their friends keep playing it. So there should be some sort of incentive to encourage people to try it.
And again, we're talking about very small portion of the content, and if its anything like Wrathstone, you will learn about the story regardless. They'll just tell you that someone else found the artifacts or whatever is hidden in these new dungeons.
The point is ithe dev's want it to be something different from your average MMO, making all these one trick pony posts about how it's "an MMO" pointless. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't care if you call it an MMO or not. My point stands.
As for repeat ability - sure. But creating a story mode for people to enjoy content that they were going to make anyways is not the same as creating entirely new content for that reason. People are still going to play the dungeon over and over again. Some just are going to do it in a different mode.
Also, for heaven's sake, the people asking for this mode either a : don't do dungeons or b : do them with guilds or friends. Section a means we'd be getting more people into content they're making anyways (and possibly getting money). Section b is unimportant in this context because they'll likely repeat the content and socialize anyways.
As for friends :People not being social enough (especially in a game) is a personal perspective thing and has absolutely nothing to do with their social health in general. Additionally, gating content behind socializing will not force people to socialize. They simply won't participate, and more importantly, buy the content. Those that already socialize with friends or guilds to do the content will continue to do so, just in story mode.
I can paint a Ford red put Corvette badges on it everywhere, replace the seats with Corvette seats, maybe find some head and tail light kits that look vaguely Corvette like, but it's still just as much a Ford as it was before.
Point being, the devs can pretty it up to look like a "regular TES experience, now online" game, but, at its core, it is an MMORPG. The world is designed to be completed in groups, with content that outright requires grouping to complete (especially as you get into DLC content). The economy is built entirely for an MMO population. There's a huge emphasis on exceedingly challenging solo PvE, group PvE, and PvP, to progress your character.
Walks like an MMO, quacks like an MMO, it's an MMO, no matter how much it's playing dress-up.2 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭I think there is to many anti social quester's who play alone all the time so they do not have friends to help them through the dungeons possibly. That is their prerogative in MMO's you can play how ever you like. However I do not believe it is everyone else's problem if story steps are in group content.
My suggestion would be to be a bit more social and get some friends together to do that with, it's really not hard to do.PC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).5 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It doesn't matter how easy you make it, multiplayer content will never mesh well with story content you have to pause for and read/listen to. It's a reasonable question to ask why they continue to put story content in these dungeons, when people who are predominantly interested in stories feel excluded and dungeon runners only play through the story once anyway, if at all.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.5 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It doesn't matter how easy you make it, multiplayer content will never mesh well with story content you have to pause for and read/listen to. It's a reasonable question to ask why they continue to put story content in these dungeons, when people who are predominantly interested in stories feel excluded and dungeon runners only play through the story once anyway, if at all.
This I agree on. As I said, I have nothing against releasing more story content, and, if overland were rebalanced to make it more challenging for proper builds played by players who know what they're doing, I'd probably enjoy it, too, as I do enjoy story content. Separate the two, and I'm good. Change group content for solo players, and that's when I have a problem.1 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well it does say elder scroll before online
So its an elder scroll game before being an online game2 -
CASP3R421✭✭✭imagine not being able to clear a normal dungeon
My Alt is a Mer
Due to the excessive amount of bait that we had to remove, this thread will remain closed3 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »Most of so called ''tes fans'' was offered story mode in single player games for too long (cheats) so all those who came because marketing speeches like: ''It's not even an mmo, you can do whatever you want and don't really need to group'' don't want to ''learn to play'' like others, they simply seek handholding again so we'll hear those screams as long as game will exist.
And yeah, putting no story in dungeons and trials is most bizarre thing I've read on forums so far, let's put some dummies even in a room, surely will do for those ''elitist'' dpsers.
We are not saying no story in dungeon we are saying no main story in dongeon
Like sunspire story was in the them of dragon but wasnt a part of the year story
Also story wise wrath stone come before elsweyr but you cant do it before lv 45 wich make no senseEdited by Dark_Lord_Kuro on January 20, 2020 1:29PM0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just to show, how much wrong is OP: the very first reason to play ESO is "You Can Go It Alone". By the way, in all the 5 reasons the word "group" can be found in an astonishing amount of one time.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheNuminous1 wrote: »ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.
I seem to recall watching a stream in which the developers actually stated that they see ESO as an RPG first and foremost. So it doesn't "pretend" to be anything but an MMO, no - the developers explicitly see it otherwise.
ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
BOOM.
Not even the directors and people who make the game call it an mmo. Whole argument demolished with a quote hell ya!
Yeah they backpedaled on that aged ago, lol.
Also , funny how the actual game description says otherwise
Interesting, considering this is the game description :
"Join over 13 million players and discover an adventure unlike anything else in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe."
Written by the people who made it, on the website, under the header "what is eso?"
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/discover
Normally I wouldn't press this kind of issue, but if the argument that keeps getting brought up is basically only "It's an MMO!", then well, we're kind of forced to discuss it.
Title:The Elder Scrolls® Online: Greymoor™
Genre:Massively Multiplayer, RPG
Developer:ZeniMax Online Studios
Publisher:Bethesda Softworks
Release Date:June 2020
Languages:English, German, French
You were saying?
Source? If it's not from ZOS and on the website, it has nothing to do with my point.TheNuminous1 wrote: »ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.
I seem to recall watching a stream in which the developers actually stated that they see ESO as an RPG first and foremost. So it doesn't "pretend" to be anything but an MMO, no - the developers explicitly see it otherwise.
ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
BOOM.
Not even the directors and people who make the game call it an mmo. Whole argument demolished with a quote hell ya!
Yeah they backpedaled on that aged ago, lol.
Also , funny how the actual game description says otherwise
Interesting, considering this is the game description :
"Join over 13 million players and discover an adventure unlike anything else in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe."
Written by the people who made it, on the website, under the header "what is eso?"
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/discover
Normally I wouldn't press this kind of issue, but if the argument that keeps getting brought up is basically only "It's an MMO!", then well, we're kind of forced to discuss it.
Title:The Elder Scrolls® Online: Greymoor™
Genre:Massively Multiplayer, RPG
Developer:ZeniMax Online Studios
Publisher:Bethesda Softworks
Release Date:June 2020
Languages:English, German, French
You were saying?
Source? If it's not from ZOS and on the website, it has nothing to do with my point.
Its from their website. This website.
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/store/product/eso_greymoor_edition_ce
Scroll to the bottom.
Thank you for the link - that makes it much easier to verify your source.
So yes, they call it an MMO under their categorization of the game (likely for sales organization purposes). That doesn't change the overall description of the game, the statements from the dev's themselves, the fact that this MMO has an entirely different fanbase makeup, or that being an MMO means nothing other than their are lots of players online playing in the same instance. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't care if you call it an MMO or not. My point stands. If the only thing you have to add is a genre, then there's nothing more to discuss because that's not a good argument for sooo soooo many reasons that I have already talked to death here. You're welcome to read the arguments I already made.
Or maybe how its won best mmo several times and the devs graciously accept? You have one quote, we have far more evidence to prove otherwise.1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »Well it does say elder scroll before online
So its an elder scroll game before being an online game
Thats because in the english languge " Online The Elder Scrolls " is not correct. Yeesh. Really grasping at straws now. This ship has come sailed and sank several times over. Its an mmo, deal with it, the normal mode is already ludicrously easy. If there was a story mode, I would only be ok with it if it
Didnt give access to achievements
Didnt reward any gear
Didnt reward any cosmetics
Didnt reward any mounts, or pets.
Then I would be ok with it, but then, and only then.2 -
NupidStoob✭✭✭✭✭People just like to whine. In general it's a good idea to stay away from the forums if you like this game. The forums just make you negative about a game that is actually quite great. With so many things to do in the game and so many players there is always one person that will dislike something and whine about it even if the majority of people doesn't care or likes how it is.
I agree though that it's ridiculous that people in a multiplayer game whine about limited single player capacities.
ESO is a massive multiplayer online roleplaying game. RPG has nothing to do with single or multiplayer.
4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭most MMOs I've played included some story parts in dungeons. ffxiv has lots of it in dungeons and it's a good storydriven game. I personally don't see the problem. most of the time I just let people know I want to know the story and have time to read and it works, assuming i ask nicely of course.
Many of the ones that do this also have a story mode so people don't have to beg to hear the story. ESO doesn't have this and the normal is inceasingly unfriendly to solo. Be it overwhelming damage like Maarselok, or mechanics that have a hard requirement that you must have multiple to do or you wipe and cannot proceed further.0 -
Rajeeri✭✭I just watch recaps on Youtube. ESO has a pretty toxic community and no way do I want to be forced into rando dungeon groups just to finish a storyline. Not worth the hassle or drama or the rush rush rush mentality. I can get plenty of that from WoW, thanks.0
-
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every time a new DLC is announced its the same thing "I dont like dungeons, why are you locking story content in dungeons ZO$? How am I... a solo player suppose to enjoy this content". Here's the answer... Just queue like everyone else, anyone can complete a normal dungeon and the people who say "everyone is rushing and wont let me read the text", have you tried asking at the start of the run "Hello I have not done this dungeon before and need to do the quest would you mind waiting for me", 90% of people will happily wait for you.
I've even seen one post asserting that "dungeon people" don't like story so why bother adding one, which seems rather presumptuous.
I don't get much chance to play trials other than a couple of times a month I happen to be on when my guild is running an older one, I doubt I'll see anything of the last few trials released for quite some time, I don't take to the forums every new trial release to lambaste trials and how I dont get to do them, so no-one should.
If you dont want to pay for a DLC that some of the content you dont want, then sub and play it that way unless you are playing an hour a week you can complete a whole DLC story in a day or two.
Do people forget this is an MMO-RPG, would you even be playing it if it wasn't called The ELDER SCROLLS Online or is it like how people still play Fallout 76, a multiplayer game, just because its a Fallout game then complain its multiplayer.
ESO doesn't pretend to be anything but a MMO, its always been an MMO and its content will reflect that.
They release dungeon DLCs and people post how ZO$ only release one big DLC a year for solo players and the rest are dungeon DLCs that they don't want. What do you want them to do, I could understand if the DLCs story REQUIRED a trial to get into but you can just go on "dungeon finder > normal specific > tick the dungeon you want" and queue as a DPS, 10 - 20 minutes later you're done and don't need to touch a dungeon till the next DLC launch.
Most people don't realise it's a game...Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Well, thing is, we're talking about 4 dungeons per year. For anyone who plays semi-regulalry it's not even 1% of the playtime. If someone can't handle 4 social interactions online, maybe online games are not for them.
And yes, buying an mmo and hoping to be able to do 100% of the content solo is like buying a shooter and being shocked by the fact that you have to shoot people... Should companies also make violence-free shooters, strategy-free RTS, and simulation-free sims?
ESO already provides a lot of freedom for solo players. But expecting to do everything solo is just very naive.
MMO is a much broader category than shooter, and simply means there are many people playing online. Doesn't say anything about what the mechanics of a MMO have to be or how it should work. Shooter is, on the other hand, not vague at all, and instead, is a very specific mechanic.
At this point, I can literally just post links to other posts in this same thread to refute your points.If all you've got to counter that is "MMO = multiplayer" well then... I don't think we can really have a nuanced conversation about what's best for the game overall.Darkstorne wrote: »At the game's launch there were numerous people like yourself saying "If you don't like not being able to explore anywhere at any level, go play a single player Elder Scrolls game! Do you not realize this is an MMO?" Those comments aged well
And final point of the day - according to the devs, TES is not an MMO "foremost": “We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”ETA (and correct): https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG
"“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says."
We can even go back to my first post :I think an MMO that offers options that fulfill all of those moods and player types is ultimately more successful anyways because it can draw in more people and keep those people playing longer. More people spending more valuable time in game means a more financially stable game, which is - at the end of the day - better for everyone.
ESO actually follows pretty typical mmo routines. There is a difference between a regular RPG and online RPG. And if devs dont actually treat ESO as an mmo, then why do they keep nominating it for the "best mmo"?
And if we're talking about financial incentives, repeatable group activities add much more replayability then story quests. I like story dlcs, but it's months worth of hard work resulting in something that you will burn through in a few days. Dungeons, trials and pvp. on the other hand, are something that people would play over and over again. Finding friends is also important, a lot of people are willing to overlook the issues of the game as long as their friends keep playing it. So there should be some sort of incentive to encourage people to try it.
And again, we're talking about very small portion of the content, and if its anything like Wrathstone, you will learn about the story regardless. They'll just tell you that someone else found the artifacts or whatever is hidden in these new dungeons.
The point is ithe dev's want it to be something different from your average MMO, making all these one trick pony posts about how it's "an MMO" pointless. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't care if you call it an MMO or not. My point stands.
As for repeat ability - sure. But creating a story mode for people to enjoy content that they were going to make anyways is not the same as creating entirely new content for that reason. People are still going to play the dungeon over and over again. Some just are going to do it in a different mode.
Also, for heaven's sake, the people asking for this mode either a : don't do dungeons or b : do them with guilds or friends. Section a means we'd be getting more people into content they're making anyways (and possibly getting money). Section b is unimportant in this context because they'll likely repeat the content and socialize anyways.
As for friends :People not being social enough (especially in a game) is a personal perspective thing and has absolutely nothing to do with their social health in general. Additionally, gating content behind socializing will not force people to socialize. They simply won't participate, and more importantly, buy the content. Those that already socialize with friends or guilds to do the content will continue to do so, just in story mode.
I actually was one of these people until I tried to do a dungeon. If there wasnt an incentive to try it, I'd probably quit the game (and stopped paying) a long time ago. And that's not just me, I know a decent amount of people who also started as solo players but stayed because of the community.
Normal mode is easy emough that you can just grab 3 fellow roleplayers and do it. If all those people who complain about not having solo mode would cooperate, it wouldnt be a problem at all.
we DO. its still not even close to good enough, let alone ideal. its at best - better then nothing. its STILL a problem.
and here is the fun fact. people who are not interested in dungeons, will NOT do dungeons, with or without story mode. people who WANT to run dungeons for gear, or for experience of cooperative combat - will continue to do so even with story mode available. how do i know this?
SWTOR - another story based multiplayer rpg made with hero engine, worse/earlier version of hero engine that ESO as far as i can tell. SWTOR had story mode dungeons for YEARS. and people STILL run group versions of those, even more willingly, because now they know that its safe to skip the story on group versions of the dungeons. people who run dungeons repeatedly are NOT doing it because there is story. people who are into story and ONLY, do NOT repeat dungeons they only did to get that bit of story.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »Well it does say elder scroll before online
So its an elder scroll game before being an online game
Thats because in the english languge " Online The Elder Scrolls " is not correct. Yeesh. Really grasping at straws now. This ship has come sailed and sank several times over. Its an mmo, deal with it, the normal mode is already ludicrously easy. If there was a story mode, I would only be ok with it if it
Didnt give access to achievements
Didnt reward any gear
Didnt reward any cosmetics
Didnt reward any mounts, or pets.
Then I would be ok with it, but then, and only then.
that's fine. seriously, that's FINE. we've been saying that is FINE for over a year now. because its about being able to do the STORY.
i do still think that skill point should be tied to first dungeon completion, NOT to doing the quest, because people don't always wait even if you ask. but that would be still a group thing to do, so that should please you, yes?
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do people not realize this game is many things to it’s very diverse player base?5 -
Lirkin✭✭✭✭I liked other games that if you leveled high enough you could do the dungeons solo. My experience grouping for the dungeons is that most of the players just want to get through the dungeon as fast as they can. I have a hard time getting the group dungeon quests done.
I like the solo dungeons but wish that some had more to them than just getting the skyshard and killing the internal bosses. The bosses don't drop anything special and they should have a chance to drop something better than they do now.Edited by Lirkin on January 20, 2020 5:38PM2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭imagine not being able to clear a normal dungeon
solo? some people have trouble with DLC dungeons in a group, but that is NOT what we are talking about here and this is the disconnect that i'm starting to despair of ever bridging.
its
NOT
about
CLEARING a dungeon
its about being able to experience its STORY to the fullest without being rushed, without missing out on parts, because someone else finished talking to npc before you did, etc etc.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
purple-magicb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I'm not entirely sure that it is an mmo first and foremost. The preceding chapters (Skyrim, Obliviion...) were all single player rpg. I think this is an rpg that is expanding into the mmo market.I don't comment here often but when I do, I get [snip]2
This discussion has been closed.