Most op skills

Hotdog_23 · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

OP in certain situations - Cloak - if you're a NB trying to cloak while outnumbered by a bunch of templars and dks, cloak is pretty useless, if you're a class without a good aoe skill to counter cloak and you're fighting a cloak spammer or multiple cloak spammers, it's oppresive af. Detect pots are a good counter for it in a 1v1 but in a 1vx, proper pots are more important.

I don’t think this is really true. Every class has an ability to break cloak. It’s moreso a build issue, especially if you consider pots part of a build.

Some people just don’t want to build for a counter and would rather complain about it then adapt. I’m actually finding the class that has the least counters I’ve played MagWarden because I have to wait for northern storm to be up to kill the NB.

This make think about the old DK wings when they had counters but people complained because they did not want to slot said counters.

Iskiab · January 2020

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

OP in certain situations - Cloak - if you're a NB trying to cloak while outnumbered by a bunch of templars and dks, cloak is pretty useless, if you're a class without a good aoe skill to counter cloak and you're fighting a cloak spammer or multiple cloak spammers, it's oppresive af. Detect pots are a good counter for it in a 1v1 but in a 1vx, proper pots are more important.

I don’t think this is really true. Every class has an ability to break cloak. It’s moreso a build issue, especially if you consider pots part of a build.

Some people just don’t want to build for a counter and would rather complain about it then adapt. I’m actually finding the class that has the least counters I’ve played MagWarden because I have to wait for northern storm to be up to kill the NB.

This make think about the old DK wings when they had counters but people complained because they did not want to slot said counters.

Yea, it’s pretty much the same. Only difference is bow/bow is an option but some classes like magblades are all projectiles so don’t have a choice. You could use concealed as a magblade, but you aren’t going to kill any DKs anyways. They should have buffed melee magblades somehow instead.

I still think it’s BS they nerfed wings, left warden as is, and then gave projectile absorptions to sorcs on ball of lightning. Projectile defense should be a DK thing.

I think they should get rid of projectile absorptions altogether now. Change it into a major x buff and standardize it to 30% for everyone. Then make wings a 10 second 30% projectile damage reduction and add major expedition for 4 seconds or something like that.

nublife01 · January 2020

Literally every ability in the entire game is fine except DK are very overtuned with the current tank meta. Something has to be done about derp dragon leap and fossilize spam. The class rolling either stamina or magicka has too much cc healing/tankyness and damage all in one. And this ranged knockdown slow low cost ulti and spammable stun/root are just brainless extremely overpowered skills.

You don't need detect pots to defend yourself against a NB. You shouldn't need immovable pots just simply to survive a DK's fossilize spam. Anyone who actually pvp's and does 1v1's in cp will agree with DKs being massively overtuned right now and every other class being balanced with NB's being just a little underpowered. If you disagree with this you're probably ignorant or just plain bad at the game. Like if you think crescent sweep is bad lmao. Fossilize into a Leap ulti does just as much if not more damage but also massively burns your stamina pool trying to escape it.

A good fix to this could actually simply be nerfing fury and DK survivablity if these op abilities want to be kept just as a couple patches ago 7th legion was reworked which massively nerfed the OP dark cloak stamblade build.

nublife01 · January 2020

Like honestly who cares about nerfing abilities. Just hard nerf bat the heavy armor Fury set hard or completely rework it so that these cheesers cant stack massively high weapon damage that gives them insane healing in heavy armor and being able to 70-80% life you in one go with or without onslaught.

Iskiab · January 2020

nublife01 wrote: »

Literally every ability in the entire game is fine except DK are very overtuned with the current tank meta. Something has to be done about derp dragon leap and fossilize spam. The class rolling either stamina or magicka has too much cc healing/tankyness and damage all in one. And this ranged knockdown slow low cost ulti and spammable stun/root are just brainless extremely overpowered skills.

You don't need detect pots to defend yourself against a NB. You shouldn't need immovable pots just simply to survive a DK's fossilize spam. Anyone who actually pvp's and does 1v1's in cp will agree with DKs being massively overtuned right now and every other class being balanced with NB's being just a little underpowered. If you disagree with this you're probably ignorant or just plain bad at the game. Like if you think crescent sweep is bad lmao. Fossilize into a Leap ulti does just as much if not more damage but also massively burns your stamina pool trying to escape it.

A good fix to this could actually simply be nerfing fury and DK survivablity if these op abilities want to be kept just as a couple patches ago 7th legion was reworked which massively nerfed the OP dark cloak stamblade build.

Are you a warden? One thing I’ve noticed this patch is there’s a lot more X class counters X class. Maybe it’s always been there but I didn’t play enough classes to tell.

I’ve noticed it goes:
Templar > DK
DK > Warden
Warden > Templar

What class you play can cloud your opinion on the overall strength of classes. Like on my magblade I saw DKs as almost unkillable, on my magtemplar I’ll sometimes get caught but almost always take them out.

Agree about NBs though. Damn man, I played a DM BG and there were 7 NBs on the other teams. I’ve never seen such a rout, 500-30-15.

nublife01 · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

nublife01 wrote: »

Literally every ability in the entire game is fine except DK are very overtuned with the current tank meta. Something has to be done about derp dragon leap and fossilize spam. The class rolling either stamina or magicka has too much cc healing/tankyness and damage all in one. And this ranged knockdown slow low cost ulti and spammable stun/root are just brainless extremely overpowered skills.

You don't need detect pots to defend yourself against a NB. You shouldn't need immovable pots just simply to survive a DK's fossilize spam. Anyone who actually pvp's and does 1v1's in cp will agree with DKs being massively overtuned right now and every other class being balanced with NB's being just a little underpowered. If you disagree with this you're probably ignorant or just plain bad at the game. Like if you think crescent sweep is bad lmao. Fossilize into a Leap ulti does just as much if not more damage but also massively burns your stamina pool trying to escape it.

A good fix to this could actually simply be nerfing fury and DK survivablity if these op abilities want to be kept just as a couple patches ago 7th legion was reworked which massively nerfed the OP dark cloak stamblade build.

Are you a warden? One thing I’ve noticed this patch is there’s a lot more X class counters X class. Maybe it’s always been there but I didn’t play enough classes to tell.

I’ve noticed it goes:
Templar > DK
DK > Warden
Warden > Templar

What class you play can cloud your opinion on the overall strength of classes. Like on my magblade I saw DKs as almost unkillable, on my magtemplar I’ll sometimes get caught but almost always take them out.

Agree about NBs though. Damn man, I played a DM BG and there were 7 NBs on the other teams. I’ve never seen such a rout, 500-30-15.

I'm a stamblade in troll king(haha)/spriggan/nma. Been a stamblade/farming hakeijo in imp city since the launch of the game though I also have a stamcro because last patch they were hilarious with fury/blackrose dw. Because of how broken high wep damage healing is right now and the cast time on incap (zos ffs) stamDk's are the only class that if a good player or at least one with half a brain is playing it I can't kill in cp where as if I don't play perfectly they will certainly kill me no matter how much they derp their rotation. Everything else I'll kill it unless its a 0 damage tank build. Like I have not seen a class be so low effort/skill level yet brokenly powerful since stamblades in the first few patches of the game's release. I'd be utterly surprised if stamplar actually counters it because I have not seen it yet.

MagDK's are also pretty horrid because fossilize spam is more lowbrow than any ability I've seen in this game though if you pop a immovable pot you can kill them pretty easy in that 8 second window as most are just dumb enough to derp their fossilize button during it.

Like Zos you want a class to rework? Add some brainpower to DK. I don't care if they end up just as busted as they are now just as long as it takes a decimal amount of skill to be that busted.

Iskiab · January 2020

nublife01 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

nublife01 wrote: »

Literally every ability in the entire game is fine except DK are very overtuned with the current tank meta. Something has to be done about derp dragon leap and fossilize spam. The class rolling either stamina or magicka has too much cc healing/tankyness and damage all in one. And this ranged knockdown slow low cost ulti and spammable stun/root are just brainless extremely overpowered skills.

You don't need detect pots to defend yourself against a NB. You shouldn't need immovable pots just simply to survive a DK's fossilize spam. Anyone who actually pvp's and does 1v1's in cp will agree with DKs being massively overtuned right now and every other class being balanced with NB's being just a little underpowered. If you disagree with this you're probably ignorant or just plain bad at the game. Like if you think crescent sweep is bad lmao. Fossilize into a Leap ulti does just as much if not more damage but also massively burns your stamina pool trying to escape it.

A good fix to this could actually simply be nerfing fury and DK survivablity if these op abilities want to be kept just as a couple patches ago 7th legion was reworked which massively nerfed the OP dark cloak stamblade build.

Are you a warden? One thing I’ve noticed this patch is there’s a lot more X class counters X class. Maybe it’s always been there but I didn’t play enough classes to tell.

I’ve noticed it goes:
Templar > DK
DK > Warden
Warden > Templar

What class you play can cloud your opinion on the overall strength of classes. Like on my magblade I saw DKs as almost unkillable, on my magtemplar I’ll sometimes get caught but almost always take them out.

Agree about NBs though. Damn man, I played a DM BG and there were 7 NBs on the other teams. I’ve never seen such a rout, 500-30-15.

I'm a stamblade in troll king(haha)/spriggan/nma. Been a stamblade/farming hakeijo in imp city since the launch of the game though I also have a stamcro because last patch they were hilarious with fury/blackrose dw. Because of how broken high wep damage healing is right now and the cast time on incap (zos ffs) stamDk's are the only class that if a good player or at least one with half a brain is playing it I can't kill in cp where as if I don't play perfectly they will certainly kill me no matter how much they derp their rotation. Everything else I'll kill it unless its a 0 damage tank build. Like I have not seen a class be so low effort/skill level yet brokenly powerful since stamblades in the first few patches of the game's release. I'd be utterly surprised if stamplar actually counters it because I have not seen it yet.

MagDK's are also pretty horrid because fossilize spam is more lowbrow than any ability I've seen in this game though if you pop a immovable pot you can kill them pretty easy in that 8 second window as most are just dumb enough to derp their fossilize button during it.

Like Zos you want a class to rework? Add some brainpower to DK. I don't care if they end up just as busted as they are now just as long as it takes a decimal amount of skill to be that busted.

I don’t play stamblade but yea, DKs are rough on Magblades too.

I was shocked seeing the difference between magblade and magtemplar. Even the super tanky ones I don’t have an issue with. I went vampire so mist their immobilizations and you’d think the fire damage thing would be more of a downside then it is.

Sometimes with the tanky ones I’ll Light - Dark Flare - Toppling - Crescent - Sweeps and need to build Ult to take one out, but I’d say I have the best 1v1 rate against DKs. Weird because I’m a vampire, but even magblades or magnecros who use meteor are more of an issue.

CompM4s · January 2020

This us the biggest and whiniest nerf thread ever created...

CompM4s · January 2020

I can tell you what all these nerfs would stop... Nothing. All the good players will adapt and continue to blow up everyone crying. Then you will make even more nerf threads. Rinse and repeat. L2p issue as usual.

ThePhantomThorn · January 2020

CompM4s wrote: »

I can tell you what all these nerfs would stop... Nothing. All the good players will adapt and continue to blow up everyone crying. Then you will make even more nerf threads. Rinse and repeat. L2p issue as usual.

Ah the l2p.
Classic

This will stop garbage players from spamming jabs/ streak and vamp draining you to death. The very few good magplars hit combos such as:
Dark flare - toppling - jab x 2 - purify hits - ded.

Bad templar is just: jab x infinity

This would stop bad sorcs from just streaking everywhere.
And vamp drain is just op.

fred4 · January 2020

Anyron wrote: »

1. It locks you into animation - Its channeled. You cant heal, block, dodge roll, you just have that. unlike your "surprise" attack when you can

Agreed.

3. Spamming streak can get you far, sure but for what cost? Its most expensive skill in game and sorcerer using this has to have resources to spam it. For that he has to take something from damage for resources. Have you ever tried it? Spamming skill that can cost 8k+ magicka?

Yes, I've played sorc and, yes, I've tried it. The cost increase reduction to 33% has been a very noticeable boon and, no, sustain is not an issue, because you take a breather for a few seconds, when you're far enough away, run a few Dark Conversions and start all over again. You don't need to invest into more sustain than you normally would. I am very fast as a nightblade and it is very difficult to keep up with sorcs who want to streak away. Most players don't. If the sorc was being zerged in Cyro and they want to get away, at worst they end up in a duel with someone like me, the one person who kept up with them. OK, there are exceptions, but often that's what it is.

But why you should, you have something just as strong - cloak. When spammed it doesnt increase in cost, and when used with shadow image and hot it can make you almost invincible. Sure there is few counters but who is using aoe in cyrodiil?

I'm sorry, but this is quite clueless. Whereas Streak has no counters, Cloak has a huge amount of counters, see my earlier post. Look, I'm not complaining, but the reason Cloak works and feels IMO reasonably balanced is because many people don't have the experience to use their toolkit well, against NBs, nor do they invest into specific NB counters. As soon as they brew some detection potions and switch potion when they encounter a nightblade, things change drastically. People who have learnt to play against nightblades are a nightmare, particularly sorcs and templars, so it's no wonder the OP singled them out. And when I say nightmare, I mean it. One player is bad. If several happen to be around in the (Cyro) fights you are participating in, you're basically forced to go elsewhere. A cloaking nightblade becomes quite unplayable.

Potion cannot be counter because for that you are wasting resources. Unlike nightblade who can drink res.potions and have even more put into damage.

You really should try it. Yes, you temporarily give up some stamina and health sustain, but you gain immovability (usually) and you're typically playing against a seriously squishy opponent whom you've just robbed of one of their main defenses and who often doesn't know what to do. Indeed nightblades have an advantage in open fields, due to cloak, but as soon as you drink a detect potion, that advantage turns into a handicap, because there is no LoS to flee to. Time was when the best move for the nightblade was to go on all out attack, but magblades haven't been very strong for a long time and stamblades, when I encounter one, feel quite blunted since last spring.

Maybe skills you mentioned above are strong, but it cames with price. Your combo doesnt.

Excuse me? A stamblade can't sustain Cloak, because it's so expensive. They have to juggle Cloak, the Shade, crouch, sprint and they're well advised to invest into some magicka sustain, more than other stamina classes. Fair enough, I'm not denying the effectiveness of that. However you want to truly sustain Cloak, like I do on my magblade, you take a huge hit to your damage and healing. A properly specced for damage magblade has maybe a 9K Swallow Soul tooltip in CP. Mine is 6K. Yes, that's because I run Swift, Steed and Caluurion. Again, I'm not complaining. I love this playstyle, however while the benfits from Caluurion, Swift and high sustain are very real, so are the tradeoffs!

PhoenixGrey · January 2020

Sorc using streak is open invitation to get one shot by a ranged burst or just running the sorc out of resources by keeping it in a constant shielding cycle and eventually dying. The gimmick stun can reveal nightblades but you would probably die to everything else in this game.

Also using streak as main stun is even worse. You are in the range of a gap closing onslaught combo which anyone with half a brain would exploit.

So just L2P before claiming streak OP eh ?

fred4 · January 2020

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Sorc using streak is open invitation to get one shot by a ranged burst or just running the sorc out of resources by keeping it in a constant shielding cycle and eventually dying. The gimmick stun can reveal nightblades but you would probably die to everything else in this game.

Also using streak as main stun is even worse. You are in the range of a gap closing onslaught combo which anyone with half a brain would exploit.

So just L2P before claiming streak OP eh ?

Can I let this rest? The more I think about it, your post is insane. You're saying don't use Streak, because you might be burst from range or gap-closed with an Onslaught combo? Well, then, what are the other classes going to do, who have even less mobility? What, indeed, is a sorc going to do? Just shield? Or is it that you specifically prefer Ball of Lightning, cause otherwise that's insane!

I'm not the OP, by the way. I'm much more on the fence than he/she is and I don't particularly want ZOS to mess with this sorc signature skill. Then again, neither do I think the OP is asking for a major change. I will concede that the skills he/she mentioned are specifically strong against nightblades but, no, that's not a gimmick. A sorc who anticipates where the NB has gone, streaks, turns around and, say, Frags you is a very strong opponent. There is a reason the NB cloaks. They probably need a breather to heal or get resources back, especially stamina. They are vulnerable. You don't necessarily need to burst, just Streak, pivot and counterattack, but few sorcs have this down pat. If you are unable to make Streak work as a stun, then it's honestly your turn to l2p. The sorcs who use the rune are mostly just annoying. The ones who have mastered Streak are the more dangerous ones in my experience.

Shaloknir · January 2020

Most OP skills are:

1. Cloak
2. Streak
3. Take flight
4. Shimmering shield
5. Jabs

Every class has one. No need to nerf any of the skills. I dont have necro, so I cant list necro skills. Sorry.

I do hope ZOS buffs damage of all skills though to match the current healing power.

As many in this thread has said it even jabs have counter, just like cloak. That is movement, use roll dodge, walk through the jab spammer. Learn from your mistakes. And if you die once in a while, its not the end of the world.

fred4 · January 2020

Shaloknir wrote: »

walk through the jab spammer.

Indeed one of the best options! You have to be really on the ball with your movement. It can be tough on a squishy build, though, because of the sheer amount of damage you take. One false move and you're dead.

Shaloknir · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Shaloknir wrote: »

walk through the jab spammer.

Indeed one of the best options! You have to be really on the ball with your movement. It can be tough on a squishy build, though, because of the sheer amount of damage you take. One false move and you're dead.

Yes Cyrodiil is a dangerous place. Only for the brave 😊

GRXRG · January 2020

First of all I would love to see a remove of every CC skill which is unblockable and undodgeable, I find it pretty lame and with zero skill involved.
Make them same as rune cage, you see it's animation and dodge it, or meteor, you block.

#1 Fossilize it's just lame to play, and top of that it even immobilize, you waste like 6k stam to break free and dodge roll to remove the immovable especially in no-cp.
#2 Streak is another one, make it blockable but undodgeable and it will be fine.
Same story for #3 Vampire drain, lame skill which cannot be avoided and hits like a truck.
#4 Northern storm needs to be toned down a lot, #5 Crescent sweep as well.
#6 Dk leaps I do no have much problems in general with this, but it's too "spammable" and does too many things, I would be happy with a damage reduction and cost increase, a lot of trash dks wins fights only because of that button pressed, make it cost more and lower damage so you see who is really carrie by it and who is not.
#7 Snipe needs to be reworked or removed, it causes 90% of the desyncs during a fight and hits too hard too.
#8 Cloak bullcr*p mechanic which saves your a** when you should be dead, reduce the duration, stealth in every mmo it's cheesy and broken, in this game way more than the usual mmos I played, pressing stealth and makes you avoid any kind of damage is lame for me, my character connect a skill and cloak completely denies it without much effort.

For now I don't have other things in mind, there are others too for sure.

fred4 · January 2020

Shaloknir wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Shaloknir wrote: »

walk through the jab spammer.

Indeed one of the best options! You have to be really on the ball with your movement. It can be tough on a squishy build, though, because of the sheer amount of damage you take. One false move and you're dead.

Yes Cyrodiil is a dangerous place. Only for the brave 😊

I was so perplexed with PhoenixGrey. Movement, in all it's forms, is one of the most OP things of all, once you start to master it.

Streak is a damn good skill and I find it saves sorcs stamina, because you can often use it in place of a dodge roll. Often my burst against against sorcs misfires, because - oops - streaked and stunned. The times where I'm cloaked, in gap closer range, just about to jump and I get accidentally streaked are surprisingly frequent as well. Sorcs who streak a lot just wreak havoc on your positioning as a nightblade. I automatically stay at greater range when I see them around. Unless PhoenixGrey was quibbling about the morph, I don't get it.

fred4 · January 2020

GRXRG wrote: »

#8 Cloak bullcr*p mechanic which saves your a** when you should be dead.

As a nightblade, I protest. That way of thinking just leads you down a toxic path. Many classes have ways of recovering from the brink. Should a templar be dead, if he uses Breath of Life? Mist Form? Should a DK be dead when he ults and counterattacks you? Do shield-stacking sorcs frustrate you, because they never seem to take damage in the first place?

Cloak is a very black and white thing. If you've never learnt to deal with nightblades, it looks like BS to you, but play one, especially a melee one, and see how you like it. Nightblades are squishy by default. That's why we cloak. We need to avoid damage with Cloak and the Shade, rather than tank it out. There is one thing I grant you: Nightblades try to control the fight. You have two ways of dealing with that:

(1) You defend and counterattack on the nightblade's timetable. Good option when you're tanky. Don't even try to go after them, just use the time when they're cloaking to buff and heal.

(2) Start looking into how you can aggressively go after them with your class (see my earlier post). Once you work that out, you'll find that many nightblades are screwed against you and the easiest players to kill.

You have to accept that that's what your options are and you'll be fine. Don't try to do (2) when you're not able, e.g. when you don't have detection potions or other ways of going after a cloaking nightblade. If you don't buff and heal, but you waste your time trying to find the nightblade with insufficient tools, that's when you get caught out.

On the other hand, if you're just frustrated you can't finish the NB, I'm the same and I am a nightblade. There is no point of using Inner Light or Radiant or even a detection potion when the nightblade is out of view. You have to let them go until they decide to return.

As a nightblade you are in the unique position of being able to draw the fight until the point where you overcommit. I guess that's why some players hate NBs so much. How can I not choose, though? If I gank someone and they take no damage, that already tells me a lot. All things being equal, I know it will be a longer fight. My opening burst just failed and I've lost the element of surprise. If the player is truly alone or it's an obvious group of merely tanky potatoes, I may keep fighting. In other cases I'm not afraid to lose a 1v1, but I am afraid of being zerged. Of course I choose to cloak away, just before that happens, if I still manage it.

Joy_Division · January 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s my list.
This is based from my opinion as a stamblade main.

1. Jabs/sweeps. This skill. Ok it does as much damage as blastbones (with 1 burning light), snares, deals aoe, and is hard to dodge. About that last one, with a roll you will dodge maybe the 1st 1 or 2 jabs but the others will hit. And it snares. Unless I have a shade up it’s a death sentence. Compare that to surprise attack: deals damage and has a small debuff. It’s so overloaded.

2. Vamp drain. This has only come on the radar this patch and here’s why I hate it.
It’s long range(ish)
It has a 12m range.
Now compare to other undodgable ccs.
Mass hysteria: 6m range
Turn evil: 5m range
See the difference?

3. Streak. Instant getaway, stuns, no real counter. Worst when a sorc streaks halfway across the map, recovers, and returns. And unlike cloak, which is counterd with numerous skills and a potion, it has no easy counter

Ok there they are.
Feel free to comment and add/argue. always fun to read.

Why are you trying to dodge Sweeps? Stop trying to dodge undodgeable skills.

The only issue with Vamp drain was that ZOS forgot to homogenize it when they did their audits. Fear / Turn Evil are AoE. If you want to properly complain, then you should use the Necro fear totem as an example since you are comparing range.

Streak. OK, you like playing NBs more than sorcs. Sorcs say that Streak is more easily countered than Cloak because gap closer spam can be used on potion cooldown. And it's not just that; I have chased down streaking sorcs on the slowest class in the game (Magplar). For us mortals that don't have a dog in the Sorc Vs. NB pissing match and have to stand and die when the enemy zerg comes, both skills are incredibly useful to do exactly what you are complaining about: leave and come back. Sometimes one is better than the other for that purpose; it depends.

****

If there are skills that are "OP," it is because ZOS nerfed the crap out of anything that was remotely fun or strong.

Except maybe Radiating Regeneration. But that was changed because PvErs cant Healing Springs spam during heal checks in trials.

PhoenixGrey · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Sorc using streak is open invitation to get one shot by a ranged burst or just running the sorc out of resources by keeping it in a constant shielding cycle and eventually dying. The gimmick stun can reveal nightblades but you would probably die to everything else in this game.

Also using streak as main stun is even worse. You are in the range of a gap closing onslaught combo which anyone with half a brain would exploit.

So just L2P before claiming streak OP eh ?

Can I let this rest? The more I think about it, your post is insane. You're saying don't use Streak, because you might be burst from range or gap-closed with an Onslaught combo? Well, then, what are the other classes going to do, who have even less mobility? What, indeed, is a sorc going to do? Just shield? Or is it that you specifically prefer Ball of Lightning, cause otherwise that's insane!

The classes who have less mobility have better defence melee range. Atleast some of them do

Streak as a main stun would work if
1. It didn't have that idiotic delay almost like a cast time after
2. Shields werent so expensive that you run out of mana so quickly in melee range.

If BOL was categorized as an OP skill, I would probably buy that but streak is not OP in the slightest IMO. I am not taking about just dueling a nightblade

Vamp drain with BOL much superior considering open world

Fawn4287 · January 2020

Sorc dark exchange is the worst designed skill, stat regen skills should be like siphoning attacks not be a spammable heal and stat conversion, and dragon knights need both a resource and damage nerf at this point

ecru · January 2020

Jabs/sweep do as much damage as blastbones without burning light. They have essentially the same tooltip. Jabs/sweep also does the same damage as shalks. It's an extremely overtuned skill, and combined with Onslaught you can eat a single channel of jabs for nearly half your hp.

The idea that you can just "avoid" jabs by moving to the side is ridiculous. If you're avoiding someone's channel of jabs that easily, they're a very bad player and weren't going to be a threat to begin with.

Trancestor · January 2020

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Sorc using streak is open invitation to get one shot by a ranged burst or just running the sorc out of resources by keeping it in a constant shielding cycle and eventually dying. The gimmick stun can reveal nightblades but you would probably die to everything else in this game.

Also using streak as main stun is even worse. You are in the range of a gap closing onslaught combo which anyone with half a brain would exploit.

So just L2P before claiming streak OP eh ?

If you cant make use of the best ability in the game its most likely you who needs to l2p. Obviously just spamming the streak button isnt enough, you also have you to shield and stuff you know...try that next time.

fred4 · January 2020

Trancestor wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Sorc using streak is open invitation to get one shot by a ranged burst or just running the sorc out of resources by keeping it in a constant shielding cycle and eventually dying. The gimmick stun can reveal nightblades but you would probably die to everything else in this game.

Also using streak as main stun is even worse. You are in the range of a gap closing onslaught combo which anyone with half a brain would exploit.

So just L2P before claiming streak OP eh ?

If you cant make use of the best ability in the game its most likely you who needs to l2p. Obviously just spamming the streak button isnt enough, you also have you to shield and stuff you know...try that next time.

He's already clarified he prefers Ball of Lightning + Vamp Drain as the CC, which is probably a valid point of view.

PhoenixGrey · January 2020

Trancestor wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Sorc using streak is open invitation to get one shot by a ranged burst or just running the sorc out of resources by keeping it in a constant shielding cycle and eventually dying. The gimmick stun can reveal nightblades but you would probably die to everything else in this game.

Also using streak as main stun is even worse. You are in the range of a gap closing onslaught combo which anyone with half a brain would exploit.

So just L2P before claiming streak OP eh ?

If you cant make use of the best ability in the game its most likely you who needs to l2p. Obviously just spamming the streak button isnt enough, you also have you to shield and stuff you know...try that next time.

If you are an NA PC you are welcome to use your best ability in the game and see how long you last ?

GRXRG · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Still if a templar uses breath of life or elusive mist I can still hit them and my animations connects and they are not wasted in freaking air like with cloak.
And you know I run detect pots, but it's not that great having to waste a 45 seconds cooldown potion that could have been used for a better potion just to detect nightblades, which half the times doesn't even work, especially skill like inner light or camouflage hunter are so buggy and the nb never gets revealed and even if I casted it at melee range they go back in stealth immediately ignoring the 3 seconds reveal and cannot enter stealth again.
I would like to see it a duration decrease, maybe only last 1 second so it must be timed better to avoid burst or make it cost like 5 or 6k magicka, it's insane how even stamblades can spam it like 15 times during a 1 minute fight.

WuffyCerulei · January 2020

fred4 · January 2020

GRXRG wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Still if a templar uses breath of life or elusive mist I can still hit them and my animations connects and they are not wasted in freaking air like with cloak.
And you know I run detect pots, but it's not that great having to waste a 45 seconds cooldown potion that could have been used for a better potion just to detect nightblades, which half the times doesn't even work, especially skill like inner light or camouflage hunter are so buggy and the nb never gets revealed and even if I casted it at melee range they go back in stealth immediately ignoring the 3 seconds reveal and cannot enter stealth again.
I would like to see it a duration decrease, maybe only last 1 second so it must be timed better to avoid burst or make it cost like 5 or 6k magicka, it's insane how even stamblades can spam it like 15 times during a 1 minute fight.

The thing about all detection methods is: Only use them when the nightblade is visible and in your face. When doing that I find that a detection potion is a guaranteed kill against many nightblades. Of course the good ones will also use the shade and some players have LoS so ingrained into their playstyle, they still make it hard to hit them. Against those, the potion can expire and go to waste.

Inner Light and Expert Hunter are a PITA to use. You really have to weave them into your rotation while the NB is right in front of you. You absolutely, positively have to do that proactively, while you see the NB, otherwise it won't work. Using it reactively just after the nightblade has cloaked is too late. I rarely bother with those skills, especially when I have Sweeps or Streak.

Stamblades can spam Cloak maybe 3 to 5 times, if they have nothing invested in magicka. You can change that substantially by going for something like the Atro mundus, dual-regen drinks and tri-pots, but that is a big sacrifice to make. I don't think many stamblades do that, other than just tri-pots.

If ZOS increased the cost of Cloak, I would probably quit the game. Magblade is my main and it's a huge quality of life issue for me. I'm one of those players who is fully invested into speed and sustain and who simply moves around in Cloak all the time. Because it's fast (with Concealed), because it avoids being ganked (I only have 21K health in CP), because it does not alert other players, because it doesn't aggro NPCs and allows you to loiter on hostile resources or in keeps, and because of the general freedom it gives you on a busy battlefield. This involved a lot of compromise already. My stats are low and I am extremely squishy. My defense is cloak and movement. Catch me out of cloak and you are a threat, believe me.

GRXRG · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Still if a templar uses breath of life or elusive mist I can still hit them and my animations connects and they are not wasted in freaking air like with cloak.
And you know I run detect pots, but it's not that great having to waste a 45 seconds cooldown potion that could have been used for a better potion just to detect nightblades, which half the times doesn't even work, especially skill like inner light or camouflage hunter are so buggy and the nb never gets revealed and even if I casted it at melee range they go back in stealth immediately ignoring the 3 seconds reveal and cannot enter stealth again.
I would like to see it a duration decrease, maybe only last 1 second so it must be timed better to avoid burst or make it cost like 5 or 6k magicka, it's insane how even stamblades can spam it like 15 times during a 1 minute fight.

The thing about all detection methods is: Only use them when the nightblade is visible and in your face. When doing that I find that a detection potion is a guaranteed kill against many nightblades. Of course the good ones will also use the shade and some players have LoS so ingrained into their playstyle, they still make it hard to hit them. Against those, the potion can expire and go to waste.

Inner Light and Expert Hunter are a PITA to use. You really have to weave them into your rotation while the NB is right in front of you. You absolutely, positively have to do that proactively, while you see the NB, otherwise it won't work. Using it reactively just after the nightblade has cloaked is too late. I rarely bother with those skills, especially when I have Sweeps or Streak.

Stamblades can spam Cloak maybe 3 to 5 times, if they have nothing invested in magicka. You can change that substantially by going for something like the Atro mundus, dual-regen drinks and tri-pots, but that is a big sacrifice to make. I don't think many stamblades do that, other than just tri-pots.

If ZOS increased the cost of Cloak, I would probably quit the game. Magblade is my main and it's a huge quality of life issue for me. I'm one of those players who is fully invested into speed and sustain and who simply moves around in Cloak all the time. Because it's fast (with Concealed), because it avoids being ganked (I only have 21K health in CP), because it does not alert other players, because it doesn't aggro NPCs and allows you to loiter on hostile resources or in keeps, and because of the general freedom it gives you on a busy battlefield. This involved a lot of compromise already. My stats are low and I am extremely squishy. My defense is cloak and movement. Catch me out of cloak and you are a threat, believe me.

Of course being your main you are kinda biased to it and don't want it nerfed.
Magblade problem is luck of consistent burst, that's why many are forced to run a no skill cheesy set like zaan to help with that.
Of course cloak is not the urgent crazy problem of a broken skills to be addressed immediately, but it's contained in the category of skills which needs a rework, because right now it's just the best defensive skill of all game. It saves you literally from everything casted on you if timed right, it let you reposition yourself and it allows to buff certain stealth bonuses skills, which I don't mind, it's class identity, but if my character is doing a dizzy swing animation and it connected to your nightblade, it should land even if you stealth, or it's no more stealth, but hitbox immunity, your character is just hidden but still there afterall. Of course things like elusive mist needs to be nerfed as well.

Vampire overall needs a nerf, it's just stupid how with 6k weapon damage i hit a 4k dawnbreaker on a vampire magden, and he dish out a 10k vampire drain and northern storm lol

But at first I would remove unblockable and undodgeable CCs, they are lame and without counterplay, Fossilize needs a longer cast time and animation and should be blockable, streak should be blockable as well, you can leave them as undodgeable, but need to give them a counterplay. In no-cp you waste 6k or more stamina to get out completely of a fossilize, it's stupid, especially if spammed off anti-cc cooldown.