Most op skills

Fawn4287 · January 2020

People really complaining about jabs, I’ve never seen a 8-10K jabs in my feed ever but that is not uncommon to come from the second d swing from a stamden, stamsorc or stam dk which is a dream to land compared to the whole animation of jabs

Tolino · January 2020

1. Cloak:
I know there are counter against this ability. But it is the only ability in the game that forces players to use specific skills/potions to counter one ability.

2. Northern Storm/Permafrost:
8-12 seconds AOE-Major Protection! This is far too strong in groups. Major Protection should have been nerfed for a long time instead of nerfing all sources for the buff.

3. Fossilize:
This stun can't be blocked or doged + immobilization. Best CC

4. Ball of Lightning:
Movement, snare/immobilization immunity, absorbs projectiles for 3 seconds.

5. Rapid Regeneration and Resolving Vigor:
Too much healing

Edit: I see this list more as: "Which ability have the greatest impact in PvP".
Not in the sense that these skills need to be nerfed immediately. I think it's good when each class has its own very strong skills.

Zabagad · January 2020

I guess this forum lost totaly the feeling of OP. (this is especially true for people who name 5 or more skills....)

All good skills are directly OP for some people. But real OP - a skill which is dominating so clearly (like runecage some patches ago or maybe(!) wings (and these are all eliminated and overnerfed in my mind)) - does not exists at the moment. Ofc there are better skills then others, but OP?
The only 2 skills I had in my personal mind as maybe(!) OP, are not even mentioned here, so its clearly a L2P on my side. And that was my guess anyway.

Tolino · January 2020

@Zabagad I see this list more as: "Which ability have the greatest impact in PvP".
Not in the sense that these skills need to be nerfed immediately. I think it's good when each class has its own very strong skills. But you are right. At the moment it has no ability which is completely "broken OP"

evoniee · January 2020

balance is a real issue guys.
aside from player skill and some random variables, some skill, gear, or class is superior to other objectively 'in some situation'.

Iskiab · January 2020

One that’s missing but I don’t think is a concern is vigor. Ever played lowby battlegrounds? Stam until they get vigor are pretty close to free AP.

NinchiTV · January 2020

Nerfs are just boring. Give the classes their old identities. Give NBs their OP incap/SA. Let sorc frags stun and have a 3rd bar. Let DK wings reflect EVERYTHING and leap should able to hit the guy 2nd floor of the inner keeps if positioned right. Let us ani cancel ults. Make skills OP again. Make the game fun again.

idk · January 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

People really complaining about jabs, I’ve never seen a 8-10K jabs in my feed ever but that is not uncommon to come from the second d swing from a stamden, stamsorc or stam dk which is a dream to land compared to the whole animation of jabs

I find this comment odd considering you just finished complaining about a list of skills, most of which have a counter, and most instant heals in the game which have a counter as well.

WoppaBoem · January 2020

Good discussion for once on this forum nice. I do not disagree with OP. However good approach is to play every class and enjoy the uniqueness. Every class need something OP very important for this game.

katorga · January 2020

It is funny how many crappy skills are now "OP" because better skills have been ruined over time, how people can't adjust to meta changes, and how people just can't deal with basic multiplayer pvp dynamics.

Maybe the game is just too difficult, and it is time to move on.

fred4 · January 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

People really complaining about jabs, I’ve never seen a 8-10K jabs in my feed ever but that is not uncommon to come from the second d swing from a stamden, stamsorc or stam dk which is a dream to land compared to the whole animation of jabs

Like I said, this is probably an NB-specifc problem. I have been crit with 4 x 2.25K jabs = 9K + Burning Light, actual damage as per FTC. It all has to come together or the templar must wear Acuity, but yeah, they can hit that hard. The problem, unlike D Swing, is that, when they land this, you also get that snare and you have a really hard time getting away from that, unless you have the shade up. This kind of damage is not something I can outheal or outshield on my magblade. What's so frustrating about it is that the templar only has to keep spamming and they will constantly uncloak you. It's brain-dead OP.

To be fair, the templars that kill you either have that high damage or they combine this with Solar Barrage, Toppling Charge, Overwhelming Surge (optional) and a detection potion. If they do that, the nightblade is basically toast. You might still get away, but certainly as a melee magblade I have no way of playing against that. Note how this is not burst gameplay on the templar's part. It's a relatively low-skill play that happens to be devastating to nightblades.

I run this myself on templar, so I'm not complaining. I am also a very squishy nightblade and the above is at the high end of the spectrum. It's fairly common to be crit for 2K, though, which is still a problem. For less-agressively specced templars or against noobs, the tables turn substantially. I kill some by squaring off and outhealing them, while doing damage, better than they can. I also have a video of one who did all the proper rotation with Purifying Light, which I feel is a mistake against nightblades. You're better off running all skills that counter cloak, not giving the NB a GCD to cloak away. Anyway, this templar did a dodge roll when he didn't have to, then got feared and couldn't break free. So, yeah, sometimes the NB will still win and there is no substitute for playing accurately, as they say in chess. I can certainly understand the sentiment of the OP, though.

fred4 · January 2020

Tolino wrote: »

1. Cloak:
I know there are counter against this ability. But it is the only ability in the game that forces players to use specific skills/potions to counter one ability.

Not specific skills in most cases. As a nightblade, let me help you out:

You're a templar: Jabs / Sweeps is your bread and butter. It's devastating to nightblades when you catch them. Don't try to be smart! Just keep spamming that. See above. While magplars have the Solar Barrage option, I find stamplars tend to have higher damage on average. Please cross templar off your list. No specific counter needed.

You're a sorc: You streak. Probably the single most effective counter against nightblades outside of detection potions. I don't know of a sorc worth it's salt who doesn't already slot a morph of that skill. I think you need some experience to anticipate where nightblades are likely to go. Sorcs who have that down and who perhaps also slot Lightning Form are devastating to nightblades. They're the players I fear most of all. Please cross sorcs off your list. No specific counter needed.

You're a magblade: Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions fit you like a glove, so please cross magblades off your list. Killing other NBs is my bread and butter.

You're a stamblade: Things are less clear cut, but switching to detection potions is by no means a bad move to sustain your own Cloak, Fear or Shade.

You're a DK: Spam Breath. Now I grant you this isn't as effective as being a templar, although Fossilize and Leap are two other common skills that will help kill nightblades at the right moment. You have to be patient on DK, but most DKs are tanky enough that they can weather being ganked. I keep saying DKs are counter-punchers. Nowhere is this more true than against nightblades. If you have a leap in hand, let yourself run a little low on health to trick the nightblade into becoming careless, then leap and execute.

You're a magden: You catch nightblades in your Northern Storm like it's fly-paper, the bad ones who overuse cloak anyway. You're not running the dumb bear, are you

? You just have to be patient.

You're a stamden: OK, I admit I'm out of ideas as to what you'd slot that isn't specifically anti-NB. I agree that Subterranean alone doesn't cut it.

You're a necro: I don't know (didn't buy Elsweyr).

Casul · January 2020

Ok so it doesn't belong in the OP rank but I was astounded by the damage a stamcro did to me with blastbones. Now I will add that he hit me with onslaught beforehand so it's definitely skewed. But I got hit with a 10k crit and it was incredible.

fred4 · January 2020

I forgot: Magden now also has Arctic Blast. Started using that recently. One of the most insanely overloaded new skills. ZOS have gone overboard in trying to make people finally select it. I'm not saying it's OP, I don't know to be honest, but it has become a very good general skill in my opinion, which also happens to counter cloaking NBs.

Tolino · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Not specific skills in most cases. As a nightblade, let me help you out:

You're a templar: Jabs / Sweeps is your bread and butter. It's devastating to nightblades when you catch them. Don't try to be smart! Just keep spamming that. See above. While magplars have the Solar Barrage option, I find stamplars tend to have higher damage on average. Please cross templar off your list. No specific counter needed.

You're a sorc: You streak. Probably the single most effective counter against nightblades outside of detection potions. I don't know of a sorc worth it's salt who doesn't already slot a morph of that skill. I think you need some experience to anticipate where nightblades are likely to go. Sorcs who have that down and who perhaps also slot Lightning Form are devastating to nightblades. They're the players I fear most of all. Please cross sorcs off your list. No specific counter needed.

You're a magblade: Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions fit you like a glove, so please cross magblades off your list. Killing other NBs is my bread and butter.

You're a stamblade: Things are less clear cut, but switching to detection potions is by no means a bad move to sustain your own Cloak, Fear or Shade.

You're a DK: Spam Breath. Now I grant you this isn't as effective as being a templar, although Fossilize and Leap are two other common skills that will help kill nightblades at the right moment. You have to be patient on DK, but most DKs are tanky enough that they can weather being ganked. I keep saying DKs are counter-punchers. Nowhere is this more true than against nightblades. If you have a leap in hand, let yourself run a little low on health to trick the nightblade into becoming careless, then leap and execute.

You're a magden: You catch nightblades in your Northern Storm like it's fly-paper, the bad ones who overuse cloak anyway. You're not running the dumb bear, are you ? You just have to be patient.

You're a stamden: OK, I admit I'm out of ideas as to what you'd slot that isn't specifically anti-NB. I agree that Subterranean alone doesn't cut it.

You're a necro: I don't know (didn't buy Elsweyr).

I don't have a problem against Nb/Cloak. Most automatically build cloak counters into their builds! There are enough possibilities to counter it. But it's still one of the best skills in PvP

fred4 · January 2020

BuildMan wrote: »

Ok so it doesn't belong in the OP rank but I was astounded by the damage a stamcro did to me with blastbones. Now I will add that he hit me with onslaught beforehand so it's definitely skewed. But I got hit with a 10k crit and it was incredible.

Errhm. You must be a lot tankier than me, if you think that's incredible

.

Casul · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Ok so it doesn't belong in the OP rank but I was astounded by the damage a stamcro did to me with blastbones. Now I will add that he hit me with onslaught beforehand so it's definitely skewed. But I got hit with a 10k crit and it was incredible.

Errhm. You must be a lot tankier than me, if you think that's incredible .

All I had was minor protection and ~1800 crit resist. It was in a BG.

Tolino · January 2020

....

Tolino · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

I forgot: Magden now also has Arctic Blast. Started using that recently. One of the most insanely overloaded new skills. ZOS have gone overboard in trying to make people finally select it. I'm not saying it's OP, I don't know to be honest, but it has become a very good general skill in my opinion, which also happens to counter cloaking NBs.

Edit. An no Actice Blast isn't great. It is a nice AOE-DoT. A mediocre burst heal (exept on tanks) Magden doasn't need the heal realy. An a realy bad stun!

That shouldn't actually be in a new post

fred4 · January 2020

Tolino wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I forgot: Magden now also has Arctic Blast. Started using that recently. One of the most insanely overloaded new skills. ZOS have gone overboard in trying to make people finally select it. I'm not saying it's OP, I don't know to be honest, but it has become a very good general skill in my opinion, which also happens to counter cloaking NBs.

Edit. An no Actice Blast isn't great. It is a nice AOE-DoT. A mediocre burst heal (exept on tanks) Magden doasn't need the heal realy. An a realy bad stun!

That shouldn't actually be in a new post

Well, look, I can understand you don't like a CC you can't control. I disagree about the heal, though. I can easily get my magden into the high 20s for health, while still having close to 50K magicka in CP. This makes the burst heal as magicka efficient, if not more, than Living Trellis, and outright better for solo play than Enchanted Growth. I never found the latter to be a good heal at all. Too expensive.

fred4 · January 2020

Tolino wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Not specific skills in most cases. As a nightblade, let me help you out:

You're a templar: Jabs / Sweeps is your bread and butter. It's devastating to nightblades when you catch them. Don't try to be smart! Just keep spamming that. See above. While magplars have the Solar Barrage option, I find stamplars tend to have higher damage on average. Please cross templar off your list. No specific counter needed.

You're a sorc: You streak. Probably the single most effective counter against nightblades outside of detection potions. I don't know of a sorc worth it's salt who doesn't already slot a morph of that skill. I think you need some experience to anticipate where nightblades are likely to go. Sorcs who have that down and who perhaps also slot Lightning Form are devastating to nightblades. They're the players I fear most of all. Please cross sorcs off your list. No specific counter needed.

You're a magblade: Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions fit you like a glove, so please cross magblades off your list. Killing other NBs is my bread and butter.

You're a stamblade: Things are less clear cut, but switching to detection potions is by no means a bad move to sustain your own Cloak, Fear or Shade.

You're a DK: Spam Breath. Now I grant you this isn't as effective as being a templar, although Fossilize and Leap are two other common skills that will help kill nightblades at the right moment. You have to be patient on DK, but most DKs are tanky enough that they can weather being ganked. I keep saying DKs are counter-punchers. Nowhere is this more true than against nightblades. If you have a leap in hand, let yourself run a little low on health to trick the nightblade into becoming careless, then leap and execute.

You're a magden: You catch nightblades in your Northern Storm like it's fly-paper, the bad ones who overuse cloak anyway. You're not running the dumb bear, are you ? You just have to be patient.

You're a stamden: OK, I admit I'm out of ideas as to what you'd slot that isn't specifically anti-NB. I agree that Subterranean alone doesn't cut it.

You're a necro: I don't know (didn't buy Elsweyr).

I don't have a problem against Nb/Cloak. Most automatically build cloak counters into their builds! There are enough possibilities to counter it. But it's still one of the best skills in PvP

There's no argument there. However your original post read: "it is the only ability in the game that forces players to use specific skills/potions to counter one ability". I feel that is not true.

Iskiab · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Tolino wrote: »

1. Cloak:
I know there are counter against this ability. But it is the only ability in the game that forces players to use specific skills/potions to counter one ability.

Not specific skills in most cases. As a nightblade, let me help you out:

You're a templar: Jabs / Sweeps is your bread and butter. It's devastating to nightblades when you catch them. Don't try to be smart! Just keep spamming that. See above. While magplars have the Solar Barrage option, I find stamplars tend to have higher damage on average. Please cross templar off your list. No specific counter needed.

You're a sorc: You streak. Probably the single most effective counter against nightblades outside of detection potions. I don't know of a sorc worth it's salt who doesn't already slot a morph of that skill. I think you need some experience to anticipate where nightblades are likely to go. Sorcs who have that down and who perhaps also slot Lightning Form are devastating to nightblades. They're the players I fear most of all. Please cross sorcs off your list. No specific counter needed.

You're a magblade: Immovability / Detection / Magicka potions fit you like a glove, so please cross magblades off your list. Killing other NBs is my bread and butter.

You're a stamblade: Things are less clear cut, but switching to detection potions is by no means a bad move to sustain your own Cloak, Fear or Shade.

You're a DK: Spam Breath. Now I grant you this isn't as effective as being a templar, although Fossilize and Leap are two other common skills that will help kill nightblades at the right moment. You have to be patient on DK, but most DKs are tanky enough that they can weather being ganked. I keep saying DKs are counter-punchers. Nowhere is this more true than against nightblades. If you have a leap in hand, let yourself run a little low on health to trick the nightblade into becoming careless, then leap and execute.

You're a magden: You catch nightblades in your Northern Storm like it's fly-paper, the bad ones who overuse cloak anyway. You're not running the dumb bear, are you ? You just have to be patient.

You're a stamden: OK, I admit I'm out of ideas as to what you'd slot that isn't specifically anti-NB. I agree that Subterranean alone doesn't cut it.

You're a necro: I don't know (didn't buy Elsweyr).

Stamwarden keep shimmering up and build your ultimate. Ignore the NB and only kill them when you get around to it, since they can’t hurt you and let you Ult spam.

10k damage from one sweeps is also about right. It’s just that some magplars are still using last patch’s meta of pariah and S&B back bar so they have weaker burst and healing. Templar doesn’t have projectile absorption abilities so some like still being overly tanky because of sorcs.

Fawn4287 · January 2020

Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange
Sorc exchange

Anyron · January 2020

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s my list.
This is based from my opinion as a stamblade main.

1. Jabs/sweeps. This skill. Ok it does as much damage as blastbones (with 1 burning light), snares, deals aoe, and is hard to dodge. About that last one, with a roll you will dodge maybe the 1st 1 or 2 jabs but the others will hit. And it snares. Unless I have a shade up it’s a death sentence. Compare that to surprise attack: deals damage and has a small debuff. It’s so overloaded.

2. Vamp drain. This has only come on the radar this patch and here’s why I hate it.
It’s long range(ish)
It has a 12m range.
Now compare to other undodgable ccs.
Mass hysteria: 6m range
Turn evil: 5m range
See the difference?

3. Streak. Instant getaway, stuns, no real counter. Worst when a sorc streaks halfway across the map, recovers, and returns. And unlike cloak, which is counterd with numerous skills and a potion, it has no easy counter

Ok there they are.
Feel free to comment and add/argue. always fun to read.

1. It locks you into animation - Its channeled. You cant heal, block, dodge roll, you just have that. unlike your "surprise" attack when you can

2.skill alone isnt that much issue, but if its used in right time, its deadly. But that can be done even with your Mass hysteria

3. Spamming streak can get you far, sure but for what cost? Its most expensive skill in game and sorcerer using this has to have resources to spam it. For that he has to take something from damage for resources. Have you ever tried it? Spamming skill that can cost 8k+ magicka?

But why you should, you have something just as strong - cloak. When spammed it doesnt increase in cost, and when used with shadow image and hot it can make you almost invincible. Sure there is few counters but who is using aoe in cyrodiil?
Potion cannot be counter because for that you are wasting resources. Unlike nightblade who can drink res.potions and have even more put into damage

Maybe skills you mentioned above are strong, but it cames with price. Your combo doesnt

ThePhantomThorn · January 2020

Anyron wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s my list.
This is based from my opinion as a stamblade main.

1. Jabs/sweeps. This skill. Ok it does as much damage as blastbones (with 1 burning light), snares, deals aoe, and is hard to dodge. About that last one, with a roll you will dodge maybe the 1st 1 or 2 jabs but the others will hit. And it snares. Unless I have a shade up it’s a death sentence. Compare that to surprise attack: deals damage and has a small debuff. It’s so overloaded.

2. Vamp drain. This has only come on the radar this patch and here’s why I hate it.
It’s long range(ish)
It has a 12m range.
Now compare to other undodgable ccs.
Mass hysteria: 6m range
Turn evil: 5m range
See the difference?

3. Streak. Instant getaway, stuns, no real counter. Worst when a sorc streaks halfway across the map, recovers, and returns. And unlike cloak, which is counterd with numerous skills and a potion, it has no easy counter

Ok there they are.
Feel free to comment and add/argue. always fun to read.

1. It locks you into animation - Its channeled. You cant heal, block, dodge roll, you just have that. unlike your "surprise" attack when you can

2.skill alone isnt that much issue, but if its used in right time, its deadly. But that can be done even with your Mass hysteria

3. Spamming streak can get you far, sure but for what cost? Its most expensive skill in game and sorcerer using this has to have resources to spam it. For that he has to take something from damage for resources. Have you ever tried it? Spamming skill that can cost 8k+ magicka?

But why you should, you have something just as strong - cloak. When spammed it doesnt increase in cost, and when used with shadow image and hot it can make you almost invincible. Sure there is few counters but who is using aoe in cyrodiil?
Potion cannot be counter because for that you are wasting resources. Unlike nightblade who can drink res.potions and have even more put into damage

Maybe skills you mentioned above are strong, but it cames with price. Your combo doesnt

Surprise attack does far less damage, has no snare, and doesn’t deal aoe.

Vamp drain has 12m range. All other undodgable ccs are far less. And it does bery high damage

Streak has no counter, and dark conversation exists.
And cloak counters: any aoe, detect pots, detect skills.

I think I have to point this out that this isn’t a ‘I died then it’s op’ thread.
These skills are overpowered in the amount they do as a skill.
Jabs has so many extra effects and does huge damage.
Vamp drain is a long range stun and does huge damage.
Streak has no counter, stuns and a huge area at that, is insane movement and one morph has a snare removal.

Cloak has easy counters and does one thing.

And nb invincible?
Ever played templar sorc dk or warden?
A templar kills me in under 2 secs with jab spam unless I have shade.
Which requires a placement first, unlike streak.
And if you have ever. EVER. Played nb you would know how bad cloak is as a defensive skill.
The only times I ever hit it is to heal (rally crit) or to kite from a zerg. It’s pointless most of the time because I’m pulled out instantly because of:
Jabs
Streak
Dragon breath
Sub assault
Lag
And any other aoe skill.

Trancestor · January 2020

OP in every situation - Streak - making it unblockable was so dumb, also should be 50% cost increase again, Cyrodil rn is 50% sorcs zooming around everywhere, offensively and defensivley. BoL too.

OP in certain situations - Cloak - if you're a NB trying to cloak while outnumbered by a bunch of templars and dks, cloak is pretty useless, if you're a class without a good aoe skill to counter cloak and you're fighting a cloak spammer or multiple cloak spammers, it's oppresive af. Detect pots are a good counter for it in a 1v1 but in a 1vx, proper pots are more important.

Really strong annoying skills - Bombard - constant root spam aids, deals high dmg at the same time, immobilize should get the same cooldown as hard cc. Vamp drain - by far the laggiest stun, even makes you laggy after the stun. Deals too much dmg for what it is.

Broken skills - Overload and Snipe, number 1 causes of desync. The desync from those 2 skills is so reliable it might as well be written in their tool tip.

Iskiab · January 2020

Trancestor wrote: »

OP in certain situations - Cloak - if you're a NB trying to cloak while outnumbered by a bunch of templars and dks, cloak is pretty useless, if you're a class without a good aoe skill to counter cloak and you're fighting a cloak spammer or multiple cloak spammers, it's oppresive af. Detect pots are a good counter for it in a 1v1 but in a 1vx, proper pots are more important.

I don’t think this is really true. Every class has an ability to break cloak. It’s moreso a build issue, especially if you consider pots part of a build.

Some people just don’t want to build for a counter and would rather complain about it then adapt. I’m actually finding the class that has the least counters I’ve played MagWarden because I have to wait for northern storm to be up to kill the NB.

Trancestor · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

OP in certain situations - Cloak - if you're a NB trying to cloak while outnumbered by a bunch of templars and dks, cloak is pretty useless, if you're a class without a good aoe skill to counter cloak and you're fighting a cloak spammer or multiple cloak spammers, it's oppresive af. Detect pots are a good counter for it in a 1v1 but in a 1vx, proper pots are more important.

I don’t think this is really true. Every class has an ability to break cloak. It’s moreso a build issue, especially if you consider pots part of a build.

Some people just don’t want to build for a counter and would rather complain about it then adapt. I’m actually finding the class that has the least counters I’ve played MagWarden because I have to wait for northern storm to be up to kill the NB.

You just contradicted yourself there, if you have issues with magden you will have even more issue vs cloak spam with stamden, stamcro, magcro, stamnb, magnb and stamsorc. Also according to you and other people you only play in large groups so you probably don't have much experience being solo outnumbered.

Iskiab · January 2020

Trancestor wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

OP in certain situations - Cloak - if you're a NB trying to cloak while outnumbered by a bunch of templars and dks, cloak is pretty useless, if you're a class without a good aoe skill to counter cloak and you're fighting a cloak spammer or multiple cloak spammers, it's oppresive af. Detect pots are a good counter for it in a 1v1 but in a 1vx, proper pots are more important.

I don’t think this is really true. Every class has an ability to break cloak. It’s moreso a build issue, especially if you consider pots part of a build.

Some people just don’t want to build for a counter and would rather complain about it then adapt. I’m actually finding the class that has the least counters I’ve played MagWarden because I have to wait for northern storm to be up to kill the NB.

You just contradicted yourself there, if you have issues with magden you will have even more issue vs cloak spam with stamden, stamcro, magcro, stamnb, magnb and stamsorc. Also according to you and other people you only play in large groups so you probably don't have much experience being solo outnumbered.

I do battlegrounds all the time.

Trancestor · January 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

OP in certain situations - Cloak - if you're a NB trying to cloak while outnumbered by a bunch of templars and dks, cloak is pretty useless, if you're a class without a good aoe skill to counter cloak and you're fighting a cloak spammer or multiple cloak spammers, it's oppresive af. Detect pots are a good counter for it in a 1v1 but in a 1vx, proper pots are more important.

I don’t think this is really true. Every class has an ability to break cloak. It’s moreso a build issue, especially if you consider pots part of a build.

Some people just don’t want to build for a counter and would rather complain about it then adapt. I’m actually finding the class that has the least counters I’ve played MagWarden because I have to wait for northern storm to be up to kill the NB.

You just contradicted yourself there, if you have issues with magden you will have even more issue vs cloak spam with stamden, stamcro, magcro, stamnb, magnb and stamsorc. Also according to you and other people you only play in large groups so you probably don't have much experience being solo outnumbered.

I do battlegrounds all the time.

Huge difference between bgs and solo cyrodil