The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
bank bag needs enlarged
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nafensoriel✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »Not so much. That you think my comment is about housing's shows you did not read or understand what I said. In fact it was you that mentioned housing.
I mentioned Zos' response to a furnishing bag which is storage very similar to bank inventory.I merely mentioned what Zos said about a furnishing bag and how that impacted server load as that is relevant. So please go back and read my posts more carefully and understand it is not about housing as I never mentioned that, it is about inventory storage and the impact on server performance which is already poor.
Again I repeat that housing was an entirely ground-up new build for them. It doesn't matter how totally FUBARed their inventory system was if the icon on your GUI doesn't link to that snake pit of garbage. They linked it to the snake pit. That is bad design choices. Very bad. It's one of the first times I can categorically say they did something in the absolute cheapest way possible.
Furnishing bags did not exist without housing. So, of course, I'm going to refer to them as "housing" when talking about the entirely new element they built from the ground up. If they can't figure out how to disassociate their storage for a brand new element then their base game is a nightmare or someone made very bad choices.
My point was they are screwing their inventory system by doubling down on it even when they are making new content.
You don't extinguish a fire with gasoline. I understand you might have meant a more broad statement but I can forgive the base games issues. The base game is 5 years old. It can be cranky and broken. I cannot forgive a new element issue.
Have no idea what you are trying to say here, especially since you are still focused on housing.
I have explained it as well as I can in layman's terms. If you cannot forgive whatever this new element issue is then maybe a different game is in order.
Element=Exactly what it says. Since we aren't talking about chemistry its an element of a greater whole.
Not focusing on housing. Calling out the BS that creating a "crafting bag" or "increasing inventory" would cause an overt amount of load. ZOS saying "we can't make a crafting bag for furniture because it will cause to much load" is horse poop.
Housing was an entirely brand new codebase. Any performance issues with the inventory of a brand new thing that exists 99.9% of the time in secondary storage are highlighting a bad design choice.
ZOS(or anyone else) saying increasing inventory size of secondary storage(IE not your hit the >I< key and instantly get inventory is bad design. Why the ever living hell would you have SECONDARY STORAGE exist anywhere near the same priority of active inventory. We do this crap with servers all the time. Giant bloody bank of HDs and a tiny block of really high-end SSDs. Suggesting there is a performance issue with adding items or storing items suggests all storage is identical.. which is... absolutely insane.3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thrasher91604 wrote: »Like I said, the insanity of releasing sets that aren’t worth collecting is part of the problem. It’s a total thoughtless mess to do that.
I don't even want to think about the whining that would ensue if ZOS decided to release a DLC without the usual complement of new sets. Or if ZOS did the opposite and every new DLC was filled with sets that completely replaced the entirety of the meta.
Something to consider is that "not worth collecting" typically means "its not the new meta." For new players leveling through the zone or for players who like playing "off meta" builds, most sets are perfectly usable. Most sets are useful for somebody, but just not useful for me.
I typically don't bother collecting BOE gear unless I'm using it right away with the thought that if I want it later, I can just buy it from guild stores. BOP gear I will keep if it seems useful for my characters, which most of it is not.0 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »There is a server load issue.
Zos has not spoken to basic bag or bank inventory specifically but they did mention why they will not be adding a furnishing bag. It is server load and adding that or inventory adds much more of a load than the crafting bag due to the huge number of items compared to the limited crafting matts.
This is probably why they added small chests as their last addition to our storage capability. They access significantly less information due to their limited size.
Are you sure they weren't talking about actual items in a house? It is a really weak argument otherwise since secondary storage doesn't have to be "instant" like opening up your inventory. There is almost no reason design-wise for the slow storage of massed goods to not be a thing since we quite bluntly do it in every single other industry.
Though that said if someone really screwed the pooch with the design I could easily see storage being a huge headache.
Positive. They were specifically speaking to a furniture bag and explained the difference between that and the crafting bag. Essentially 500000 of one item requires a lot less server work to pull up than 1 of 10 items with how a db works. Just look at how long a query takes to bring up a small handful of items at a popular guild trader.
Also, it is still server the same server load if it is portioned out over a 10-20 seconds or it displays in just a few since the server is responding to a great many inventory requests at the same time. So that is one very good reason why "design-wise" the added storage, even slowed down, would be a thing. Additionally complain about slow responses
Being that we know there is in FACT a server load issue we have been experiencing in ESO and that Zos has begun a process to reduce that load there is a very logical and strong argument. Yes, I know a hard reality is not convenient your argument.
BTW, many of us that hoard, and yes I am one, realized that after the crafting bag emptied out so much of our inventory we just filled it up. When Zos doubled our bank storage us hoarders filled it up again. So to suggest we need more space because we have run out of room in our inventory is a pretty weak argument. For most of us we fill it with stuff we have never used and probably never will. Decon is our friend.
WTF you talking about, they keep adding sets and items/furniture every patch, its been hundreds of things added, they ARE FORCING ESO+ witht that.
We loved ESO+ and the freedom it gave at the moment because people were spending hundreds of combined hours, login in/out of "mules", the bank was impossible to manage, and the chests are a LAZY SOLUTION because you cant check with banker what you have, you have to go to a house to check 1 by 1 where you left X item
And no, being forced to decon a piece you want just because you need the space?, I hadt to run around 30 times Scalecaller Peak at the moment to get a damn necklace of Jorvuld?
And that was considering I did those dungeonruns with friends who were gonna give me the piece. Same for a friend who was looking a lighting staff of the same set and WE never got it.
Is people like you defending the horrendous behavior of ZOS regarding storage that they will never take another step to alleviate the burden of Inventory Management Online aka ESO
People like you wouldn't be happy with nothing less then infinite storage. Any cap and you people that hoard everything would come up against it. Simple as that.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »There is a server load issue.
Zos has not spoken to basic bag or bank inventory specifically but they did mention why they will not be adding a furnishing bag. It is server load and adding that or inventory adds much more of a load than the crafting bag due to the huge number of items compared to the limited crafting matts.
This is probably why they added small chests as their last addition to our storage capability. They access significantly less information due to their limited size.
Are you sure they weren't talking about actual items in a house? It is a really weak argument otherwise since secondary storage doesn't have to be "instant" like opening up your inventory. There is almost no reason design-wise for the slow storage of massed goods to not be a thing since we quite bluntly do it in every single other industry.
Though that said if someone really screwed the pooch with the design I could easily see storage being a huge headache.
Positive. They were specifically speaking to a furniture bag and explained the difference between that and the crafting bag. Essentially 500000 of one item requires a lot less server work to pull up than 1 of 10 items with how a db works. Just look at how long a query takes to bring up a small handful of items at a popular guild trader.
Also, it is still server the same server load if it is portioned out over a 10-20 seconds or it displays in just a few since the server is responding to a great many inventory requests at the same time. So that is one very good reason why "design-wise" the added storage, even slowed down, would be a thing. Additionally complain about slow responses
Being that we know there is in FACT a server load issue we have been experiencing in ESO and that Zos has begun a process to reduce that load there is a very logical and strong argument. Yes, I know a hard reality is not convenient your argument.
BTW, many of us that hoard, and yes I am one, realized that after the crafting bag emptied out so much of our inventory we just filled it up. When Zos doubled our bank storage us hoarders filled it up again. So to suggest we need more space because we have run out of room in our inventory is a pretty weak argument. For most of us we fill it with stuff we have never used and probably never will. Decon is our friend.
WTF you talking about, they keep adding sets and items/furniture every patch, its been hundreds of things added, they ARE FORCING ESO+ witht that.
We loved ESO+ and the freedom it gave at the moment because people were spending hundreds of combined hours, login in/out of "mules", the bank was impossible to manage, and the chests are a LAZY SOLUTION because you cant check with banker what you have, you have to go to a house to check 1 by 1 where you left X item
And no, being forced to decon a piece you want just because you need the space?, I hadt to run around 30 times Scalecaller Peak at the moment to get a damn necklace of Jorvuld?
And that was considering I did those dungeonruns with friends who were gonna give me the piece. Same for a friend who was looking a lighting staff of the same set and WE never got it.
Is people like you defending the horrendous behavior of ZOS regarding storage that they will never take another step to alleviate the burden of Inventory Management Online aka ESO
I can see your confusions since you did not respond to a single point I made.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »Not so much. That you think my comment is about housing's shows you did not read or understand what I said. In fact it was you that mentioned housing.
I mentioned Zos' response to a furnishing bag which is storage very similar to bank inventory.I merely mentioned what Zos said about a furnishing bag and how that impacted server load as that is relevant. So please go back and read my posts more carefully and understand it is not about housing as I never mentioned that, it is about inventory storage and the impact on server performance which is already poor.
Again I repeat that housing was an entirely ground-up new build for them. It doesn't matter how totally FUBARed their inventory system was if the icon on your GUI doesn't link to that snake pit of garbage. They linked it to the snake pit. That is bad design choices. Very bad. It's one of the first times I can categorically say they did something in the absolute cheapest way possible.
Furnishing bags did not exist without housing. So, of course, I'm going to refer to them as "housing" when talking about the entirely new element they built from the ground up. If they can't figure out how to disassociate their storage for a brand new element then their base game is a nightmare or someone made very bad choices.
My point was they are screwing their inventory system by doubling down on it even when they are making new content.
You don't extinguish a fire with gasoline. I understand you might have meant a more broad statement but I can forgive the base games issues. The base game is 5 years old. It can be cranky and broken. I cannot forgive a new element issue.
Have no idea what you are trying to say here, especially since you are still focused on housing.
I have explained it as well as I can in layman's terms. If you cannot forgive whatever this new element issue is then maybe a different game is in order.
Element=Exactly what it says. Since we aren't talking about chemistry its an element of a greater whole.
Not focusing on housing. Calling out the BS that creating a "crafting bag" or "increasing inventory" would cause an overt amount of load. ZOS saying "we can't make a crafting bag for furniture because it will cause to much load" is horse poop.
Housing was an entirely brand new codebase. Any performance issues with the inventory of a brand new thing that exists 99.9% of the time in secondary storage are highlighting a bad design choice.
ZOS(or anyone else) saying increasing inventory size of secondary storage(IE not your hit the >I< key and instantly get inventory is bad design. Why the ever living hell would you have SECONDARY STORAGE exist anywhere near the same priority of active inventory. We do this crap with servers all the time. Giant bloody bank of HDs and a tiny block of really high-end SSDs. Suggesting there is a performance issue with adding items or storing items suggests all storage is identical.. which is... absolutely insane.
Don't tell me you are not talking about housing when you are the first one that mentioned it and the last post had two paragraphs mentioning it. I have not discussed housing itself at all.
I have merely pointed out the db issue based on what Zos has told us before and the chests they added makes sense in the context of how a db works and the issues Zos stated. I could care less that you do not understand it.Edited by idk on December 9, 2019 11:13PM0 -
OsManiaC✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »gpkreutzerub17_ESO wrote: »with all the new content and items the max of 480 for banking bags needs to increase.
For some reason, everyone and their brother in the MMO business thinks a small inventory size encourages play. The exact mechanic varies by who you talk to but in general its "if you can't have everything you'll have to go do something every time we change something".
The problem with that concept is MMO players are HOARDERS. Elder Scrolls/fallout players are even WORSE.
I had soooooo many skulls in containers in Skyrim I actually crashed one of my saves.
If we had 5000 slot banks it would be a conservative guess to suggest that over half the players would suddenly go into "collect all the sets" mode. Why MMO developers don't get the hoarder market I don't understand.
I have a character for every zone set - e.g brother-in-love has all 200/200 with light-medium-heavy sets of greenshade. Imagine the number of accounts I have.
Fun thing I started hoarding because I was against eso+ - good thing I have eso+ now so I can use 200/200 on other things.
Worst thing I horde is cp150 food/drinks kragenmoore mazte etc..GM of The Argonian Kebab, The Argonian Steak & The Argonian BBQ - PC - EU (The Tamriel Kitchen) @OsManiaC
Don't worry, the tail grows back!
if it breathes we eats. #justbosmerthings - we can detect stealth boy NPCs and hunt them thanks to our skill!
https://steamcommunity.com/id/osmaniac0 -
nafensoriel✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »Not so much. That you think my comment is about housing's shows you did not read or understand what I said. In fact it was you that mentioned housing.
I mentioned Zos' response to a furnishing bag which is storage very similar to bank inventory.I merely mentioned what Zos said about a furnishing bag and how that impacted server load as that is relevant. So please go back and read my posts more carefully and understand it is not about housing as I never mentioned that, it is about inventory storage and the impact on server performance which is already poor.
Again I repeat that housing was an entirely ground-up new build for them. It doesn't matter how totally FUBARed their inventory system was if the icon on your GUI doesn't link to that snake pit of garbage. They linked it to the snake pit. That is bad design choices. Very bad. It's one of the first times I can categorically say they did something in the absolute cheapest way possible.
Furnishing bags did not exist without housing. So, of course, I'm going to refer to them as "housing" when talking about the entirely new element they built from the ground up. If they can't figure out how to disassociate their storage for a brand new element then their base game is a nightmare or someone made very bad choices.
My point was they are screwing their inventory system by doubling down on it even when they are making new content.
You don't extinguish a fire with gasoline. I understand you might have meant a more broad statement but I can forgive the base games issues. The base game is 5 years old. It can be cranky and broken. I cannot forgive a new element issue.
Have no idea what you are trying to say here, especially since you are still focused on housing.
I have explained it as well as I can in layman's terms. If you cannot forgive whatever this new element issue is then maybe a different game is in order.
Element=Exactly what it says. Since we aren't talking about chemistry its an element of a greater whole.
Not focusing on housing. Calling out the BS that creating a "crafting bag" or "increasing inventory" would cause an overt amount of load. ZOS saying "we can't make a crafting bag for furniture because it will cause to much load" is horse poop.
Housing was an entirely brand new codebase. Any performance issues with the inventory of a brand new thing that exists 99.9% of the time in secondary storage are highlighting a bad design choice.
ZOS(or anyone else) saying increasing inventory size of secondary storage(IE not your hit the >I< key and instantly get inventory is bad design. Why the ever living hell would you have SECONDARY STORAGE exist anywhere near the same priority of active inventory. We do this crap with servers all the time. Giant bloody bank of HDs and a tiny block of really high-end SSDs. Suggesting there is a performance issue with adding items or storing items suggests all storage is identical.. which is... absolutely insane.
Don't tell me you are not talking about housing when you are the first one that mentioned it and the last post had two paragraphs mentioning it. I have not discussed housing itself at all.
I have merely pointed out the db issue based on what Zos has told us before and the chests they added makes sense in the context of how a db works and the issues Zos stated. I could care less that you do not understand it.
Furnishing is housing.Zos has not spoken to basic bag or bank inventory specifically but they did mention why they will not be adding a furnishing bag
A bed doesn't exist without housing. My argument is that if they are claiming they cannot add a furnishing bag because it would cause database load issues then someone made a colossally terrible choice. Housing is 100% new ZOS. Not pre 1T. Not the disaster they caused after launch. Pure new team. The only functional way they could have "loading issues" on an entirely new piece of code that has storage is if they went as cheap as humanly possible and tried to bolt on crap to crap.
Again. Entire point is that they made a new element and strapped it on burning garbage and that is not a valid excuse to being unable to increase inventory.
If you cannot quite grasp why the entire argument of "they said their DB couldn't handle it" and then strapped HOUSING onto what they ADMITTED to being a STRESSED system is a BAD idea... well can't help you anymore. It means if technical limitations are to blame for lack of inventory increases they only exist due to bad design choices.2 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Respect4Elders wrote: »It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it.
Perhaps, but my bank could certainly stand to be engorged."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »Not so much. That you think my comment is about housing's shows you did not read or understand what I said. In fact it was you that mentioned housing.
I mentioned Zos' response to a furnishing bag which is storage very similar to bank inventory.I merely mentioned what Zos said about a furnishing bag and how that impacted server load as that is relevant. So please go back and read my posts more carefully and understand it is not about housing as I never mentioned that, it is about inventory storage and the impact on server performance which is already poor.
Again I repeat that housing was an entirely ground-up new build for them. It doesn't matter how totally FUBARed their inventory system was if the icon on your GUI doesn't link to that snake pit of garbage. They linked it to the snake pit. That is bad design choices. Very bad. It's one of the first times I can categorically say they did something in the absolute cheapest way possible.
Furnishing bags did not exist without housing. So, of course, I'm going to refer to them as "housing" when talking about the entirely new element they built from the ground up. If they can't figure out how to disassociate their storage for a brand new element then their base game is a nightmare or someone made very bad choices.
My point was they are screwing their inventory system by doubling down on it even when they are making new content.
You don't extinguish a fire with gasoline. I understand you might have meant a more broad statement but I can forgive the base games issues. The base game is 5 years old. It can be cranky and broken. I cannot forgive a new element issue.
Have no idea what you are trying to say here, especially since you are still focused on housing.
I have explained it as well as I can in layman's terms. If you cannot forgive whatever this new element issue is then maybe a different game is in order.
Element=Exactly what it says. Since we aren't talking about chemistry its an element of a greater whole.
Not focusing on housing. Calling out the BS that creating a "crafting bag" or "increasing inventory" would cause an overt amount of load. ZOS saying "we can't make a crafting bag for furniture because it will cause to much load" is horse poop.
Housing was an entirely brand new codebase. Any performance issues with the inventory of a brand new thing that exists 99.9% of the time in secondary storage are highlighting a bad design choice.
ZOS(or anyone else) saying increasing inventory size of secondary storage(IE not your hit the >I< key and instantly get inventory is bad design. Why the ever living hell would you have SECONDARY STORAGE exist anywhere near the same priority of active inventory. We do this crap with servers all the time. Giant bloody bank of HDs and a tiny block of really high-end SSDs. Suggesting there is a performance issue with adding items or storing items suggests all storage is identical.. which is... absolutely insane.
Don't tell me you are not talking about housing when you are the first one that mentioned it and the last post had two paragraphs mentioning it. I have not discussed housing itself at all.
I have merely pointed out the db issue based on what Zos has told us before and the chests they added makes sense in the context of how a db works and the issues Zos stated. I could care less that you do not understand it.
Furnishing is housing.Zos has not spoken to basic bag or bank inventory specifically but they did mention why they will not be adding a furnishing bag
A bed doesn't exist without housing. My argument is that if they are claiming they cannot add a furnishing bag because it would cause database load issues then someone made a colossally terrible choice. Housing is 100% new ZOS. Not pre 1T. Not the disaster they caused after launch. Pure new team. The only functional way they could have "loading issues" on an entirely new piece of code that has storage is if they went as cheap as humanly possible and tried to bolt on crap to crap.
Again. Entire point is that they made a new element and strapped it on burning garbage and that is not a valid excuse to being unable to increase inventory.
If you cannot quite grasp why the entire argument of "they said their DB couldn't handle it" and then strapped HOUSING onto what they ADMITTED to being a STRESSED system is a BAD idea... well can't help you anymore. It means if technical limitations are to blame for lack of inventory increases they only exist due to bad design choices.
Not really.
The furnishing bag idea, which is what I had mentioned is not housing. It is inventory of items not placed in a home. The relevance to the thread is Zos explanation why that is not being added as the same reasoning can be extended to making our bank inventory larger. Housing itself is not the issue as they have limited the size of the query for housing as they have limited the size of the query concerning our bank inventory.
Granted, I think Zos has poorly managed this game which is why server performance has gotten as bad as it has. Considering the length Zos is going through over the next few updates plus the last one to improve server performance demonstrates this as much of it could have been done long ago.
However, to suggest the problem and reason we cannot have more bank space is due to housing as you are here does not make sense. As stated, they limited the size of that query. The larger the query the larger the load placed on the servers to deliver it. That is exactly what is happening when we go into our homes, and access our bank or bag inventory.
Do not stress about it. This is just a game. None of this is worth getting worked up about. Pretty much most of what is in my various inventories are not really that important.
Anyhow, I am taking leave of this thread. Go enjoy the game or continue with this thread. It is your choice.Edited by idk on December 10, 2019 4:18AM0 -
amapola76✭✭✭✭✭
✭The craft bag is the only thing keeping many people subscribed, and ZoS won't risk that steady revenue. It's a business decision, not a technical limitation.
They could add 10 bank slots (20 for ESO+) to the max with each chapter without making the crafting bag less attractive. It would also encourage chapter sales.
Yes, and this would also have the virtue of the maxed-out bank space no longer being such a weird number. Why 480? It just irritates me every time I see it... 500 would make much more sense.
It's not 480, it's 240. I don't know why you keep saying 480!
Bank space is 240. Doubled with ESO+.
You... you understand that you literally answered your own question in the very next sentence, right?
Yes, 240 is the standard amount for bank space. Doubled for ESO+, that's... you guessed it... 480!
(Edited to add: in either case, 240 is a weird, random cut-off number, as is 480. It would make much more sense to many of us to have it set at 250/500.)Edited by amapola76 on December 10, 2019 4:30AM1 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There are only a dozen overland sets that are worth getting. And there's literally no need to hoard those up since you can just buy them in guild stores if and when you need them. For dungeons it's pretty much the same - few sets are worth keeping. And that includes both PvE and PvP. Just do the maths and check the MM/TTC on a set piece you get and you'll figure out pretty fast what's worth keeping, selling or deconstructing. If you wanna try a build you can always simulate it offline, or test it in the PTS - when you create a template character it already has all the sets in coffers on him so you can equip them and have a go. As I said, storage cluttering is a L2P issue, just like not having gold, dying trash mobs in dungeons etc. Imagine how your house would look like IRL if you picked up every piece of junk or bought everything that's for sale at a cut price in a store just because you may need it later
Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |1 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
No, because hoarders keep saving all sorts of stuff there's no need to save. Just because they added, for ex, four new sets in an expansion? You don't need to gather & store all four of them. Or the twenty previous ones. Or multiple copies of all the new style pages for if you ever make several new crafters. Etc, etc, etc.
Maybe YOU dont need to collect and store all the new gear and loot, maybe YOU dont play like that. Others do.
So fed up of people thinking what THEY do is what everyone else should.3 -
ATomiX69✭✭✭✭Just fill up all your free character slots (I think it used to be 8 free char slots? maybe more now) with lvl 1s, put them into any capital of choice and park them next to the bank and use them as extra storage if you need more space.
300 slots from the small and big storage containers in your house also help tremendously.
And lastly create nine free alt accounts during f2p events, invite all of them to a guild and there you go a guild bank where you can store all non bound stuff like materials which is another 500 slots.
Also get inventory insight to see where all your gear is parked and EZ PZ you should have more than enough space.
Fun Fact:
If you go all out and get 16 chars all with maxed mounts and inventories, storage containers, personal guild bank etc. you can have over 4.2k inventory slots as a non eso+ sub, so thats plenty of space to hoard your stuff.
smurf account
New PvP content when?
Better cyro performance when?
Farmed about 3 GO's worth of AP
world 3rd immortal redeemer (22.02.18) and other not noteworthy trifectas1 -
Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭nafensoriel wrote: »gpkreutzerub17_ESO wrote: »with all the new content and items the max of 480 for banking bags needs to increase.
For some reason, everyone and their brother in the MMO business thinks a small inventory size encourages play. The exact mechanic varies by who you talk to but in general its "if you can't have everything you'll have to go do something every time we change something".
The problem with that concept is MMO players are HOARDERS. Elder Scrolls/fallout players are even WORSE.
I had soooooo many skulls in containers in Skyrim I actually crashed one of my saves.
If we had 5000 slot banks it would be a conservative guess to suggest that over half the players would suddenly go into "collect all the sets" mode. Why MMO developers don't get the hoarder market I don't understand.
I filled a city with pumpkins until trying to enter it crashed the game
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Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem with that concept is MMO players are HOARDERS. Elder Scrolls/fallout players are even WORSE.
I had soooooo many skulls in containers in Skyrim I actually crashed one of my saves.
If we had 5000 slot banks it would be a conservative guess to suggest that over half the players would suddenly go into "collect all the sets" mode. Why MMO developers don't get the hoarder market I don't understand.
I had ~9000 slots in Skyrim
I remember there was some quest when we had to go somewhere with empty inventory, and it was a pain to put all my items to storage... I would definitely love 9000 bank space in ESO! ...Ok, even 1000 bank pace would be nice. I still think about many sets which I would farm if I had more space.Those that hoard like myself save everything that we might use if the stars align just right but most of it is just junk that collects dust.
I think it's much less of a problem if somebody plays only 1 character, or only one role... Few PvP sets, few PvE sets, and it's enough. Unfortunately, I like to have characters of every class and role, and thus I collect any sets that might be good for all of those characters
Also if you lean towards Healing/tanking, there aren't just one or two sets that are good. You're lugging different sets around for different dungeons/trials1 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ryath_Waylander wrote: »The problem with that concept is MMO players are HOARDERS. Elder Scrolls/fallout players are even WORSE.
I had soooooo many skulls in containers in Skyrim I actually crashed one of my saves.
If we had 5000 slot banks it would be a conservative guess to suggest that over half the players would suddenly go into "collect all the sets" mode. Why MMO developers don't get the hoarder market I don't understand.
I had ~9000 slots in Skyrim I remember there was some quest when we had to go somewhere with empty inventory, and it was a pain to put all my items to storage... I would definitely love 9000 bank space in ESO! ...Ok, even 1000 bank pace would be nice. I still think about many sets which I would farm if I had more space.Those that hoard like myself save everything that we might use if the stars align just right but most of it is just junk that collects dust.
I think it's much less of a problem if somebody plays only 1 character, or only one role... Few PvP sets, few PvE sets, and it's enough. Unfortunately, I like to have characters of every class and role, and thus I collect any sets that might be good for all of those characters
Also if you lean towards Healing/tanking, there aren't just one or two sets that are good. You're lugging different sets around for different dungeons/trials
Tanking: Yolnakriin, Ebon, Alkosh, Torug, Bloodspawn, Lord Warden, Earthgore. Those are ~50 slots if you want them on most slots but that's often redundant. Optionally maybe Powerful Assault, Hircine's, Morag Tong, Dragon or some survival set like Leeching Plate and other non-specific sets like Symphony of Blades, Thurvokun for non-DK or Necro tanks. Let's say 80-90 slots in total. That's less than 1/2 backpack space on a single character.
Healing: Olorime (SPC still works in some fights), Worm Cult, Jorvuld, Healing Mage, Hollowfang, Sanctuary, Martial Knowledge, Infallible Mage (useless after eased access to Minor Vulnerability), Twilight Remedy (everyone can run Channeled Acceleration or Barbed Trap), Hircine's (still better on tank in most cases, but healer can run it sometimes) and monster sets Sentinel or Rkugamz, Symphony of Blades, Lord Warden (it's better on healer in some fights since tank stays away), Earthgore (has been nerfed so it only procs on 1 person), Master's Restoration Staff, Maelstrom's Restoration staff (good if people are spread out and you need to recast Regeneration often). So maybe 90-100 slots in total, about half of a character's inventory.
Can't think of others. Just like any other set category, 80-90% of intended healing & tanking sets are ineffective, and I send those straight to the recycling bin.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
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41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
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Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
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Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |1 -
nafensoriel✭✭✭✭✭
After a good night's sleep and a coffee, I realized [snip] I will explain a bit more(abet simplified).Not really.
The furnishing bag idea, which is what I had mentioned is not housing. It is inventory of items not placed in a home. The relevance to the thread is Zos explanation why that is not being added as the same reasoning can be extended to making our bank inventory larger. Housing itself is not the issue as they have limited the size of the query for housing as they have limited the size of the query concerning our bank inventory.
/snip
However, to suggest the problem and reason we cannot have more bank space is due to housing as you are here does not make sense. As stated, they limited the size of that query. The larger the query the larger the load placed on the servers to deliver it. That is exactly what is happening when we go into our homes, and access our bank or bag inventory.
/snip
The GUI doesn't care what the button on it does. It is its own element. You could have inventory separated into 3 buttons.
Button 1 and 2 can do what you see the current game do... Link to the exact same inventory or two inventory clusters all with the same immediate query priority. IE with these two buttons everything is constantly checked or preloaded somewhere so when you hit >I< you instantly get an open bag populated with items. Hell, you could even have a temp list loaded on the client for the illusion of faster access since inventory doesn't really change all that fast.
The third button could be what we call secondary or "deep" storage. Storage that is not intended to be accessed instantly. This inventory doesn't have to even touch the original part of the server that handles your current inventory except during "exchange" when you transfer something from deep to active storage. This means you could also set up the deep storage for a more robust search query since it will never impact the main server except at exchange and is actually its own independent thing.
Well having a button is dumb for a video game(not for scientific software) because in a game when you hit your > I < key you don't want to ever wait 10-30 seconds for the list to populate. If that was a box in your house or a menu that only worked in your house when you hit F5 then people would be far less likely to complain about the brief pause.
This is how it should be handled. Trying to ensure absolute continuity with the original inventory that was already stressed wasn't the best choice especially considering housing started from ground zero and had no requirement to be completely attached to the base game. Hell, I personally would have made those little housing portals shoot off to an entirely new server cluster(even possibly worldwide) so I could toss feature after feature on them without stressing the main server. It costs very little extra and opens so many doors for future growth. Players wouldn't notice the loading screen was slightly longer zoning into their houses either.
Thus saying at any time that a "furnishing bag" cant exist because of the reasons explained by zos is not a good thing.
Listen, I'm the third party. I'm not in the room. There might be one hell of a good reason inside that room like "we are hemorrhaging money get a new feature NOW or find new jobs" or even "we don't know how to do that"(more common than you think). The problem is looking back there is very little reason to have done something that caused more problems rather than solves them except for cost. The argument of server load, especially related to anything housing, is a poor one.
The only reason inventory is small is because somewhere someone either screwed up or a marketing REMF thinks it's for the better.
Minor edit for bait.
Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on December 11, 2019 8:22PM0 -
January1171✭✭✭✭✭I can begrudginly accept the inventory will never be significantly increased.
But for Sheogorath's sake increase the cap to 250/500! The current 240/480 drives me crazy.2 -
amapola76✭✭✭✭✭
✭January1171 wrote: »I can begrudginly accept the inventory will never be significantly increased.
But for Sheogorath's sake increase the cap to 250/500! The current 240/480 drives me crazy.
See, this is all I have been saying! Thank you!0 -
Zephard✭✭✭[
You... you understand that you literally answered your own question in the very next sentence, right?
Yes, 240 is the standard amount for bank space. Doubled for ESO+, that's... you guessed it... 480!
(Edited to add: in either case, 240 is a weird, random cut-off number, as is 480. It would make much more sense to many of us to have it set at 250/500.)
Yeap, I fully understood that I said ESO+ doubled it, and do know that it's 480.
You also said you know that bank space is 240. So the doubled bank space is not the quantity that should be quoted as the bank space.
Yes, I agree 240 was a rather odd number to settle on.
Except for the fact that 240 is a multiple of hex.
I was merely pointing out, that the thread was about how the doubled amount of bank space isn't enough, but really they should be addressing that the bank space isn't enough, and get the bank space raised, instead of more space given to ESO+.
Cause if you just cry for more than 480, then there is the chance that ESO+ will get the increase by just tripling instead of doubling the + amount.
As I am not a + holder, I don't want to be left out of the bank increase.
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amapola76✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cause if you just cry for more than 480, then there is the chance that ESO+ will get the increase by just tripling instead of doubling the + amount.
As I am not a + holder, I don't want to be left out of the bank increase.
That is __highly__ unlikely.
IF they increase bank space at all, they will almost certainly leave ESO+ as double the size of standard. So, it makes no difference to me whether you are talking about increasing the standard size by 10 or ESO+ by 20: in practice, it means the same thing.
In other words: if I have plus, and you don't, no, we will not have the same number of slots. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, if you say, "Please, give standard 10 more slots," and I say, "Please, give ESO+ 20 more slots," we are essentially asking for the same thing: 10 extra slots for standard, 20 for subscription. (Or, 20 for standard thus 40 ESO+, and so on.) I don't really care what you call it, nor am I sure why you care what I call it. They are not suddenly going to make ESO+ triple the benefit. I just don't see the advantage to them in doing so, particularly when it would just infuriate people, and when... let's be honest... the real draw of the subscription is the craft bag.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is good as it is. Lack of space is simply an L2P problem:
1) Furnishings can be stored in homes, no need to clog your bank with it; buying some homes is cheaper than what would the next bank slot would cost if it were available, by looking at the price progression.
No.
This is simply not an adequate solution:
1. You can't decorate the houses you are using for storage (for obvious reasons).
2. You can't access any of the stuff you have stored in houses, when you are decorating another house, so you have to do a longwinded tour of your storage houses, looking for items, all the time.
3. In the case of furnishings that drop on a frequent basis (like branches, or certain paintings), it is far more efficient to simply dump them in your bank, than it is to have to travel to your storage house, all the time.
4. When you have a lot of one item, it is more efficient to store it in the bank/in a chest, as it only takes up one space in there. As opposed to in a house, where it takes up multiple (valuable) slots.
This is why people put some furnishings in their bank and/or in a storage chest.
Not because they're too idiotic to figure out they could store them in a house. ><
The people asking for more storage didn't start playing last week.
So, simplistic lists, that act like they did, are generally of no use whatsoever, quite frankly.
They have already learned to play - probably for far longer than the people making these ridiculous lists have - and that is why they know they need more bank space.
Edited by Tigerseye on December 11, 2019 5:41AM1 -
Freakin_Hytte✭✭✭✭✭I would rather that Zos gives us a way to make it easier to categorize and making the overall experience of the inventory smoother.
For example give us the option to either create or buy containers. These containers would be able to be renamed and let's say put 10 items in each. These containers would create a much smoother experience, because we would be able create containers containers for sets and what I really want is for us to have an option to list by names and not by what type of item. I hate having to go through the entire bank just to get a few items out.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nafensoriel wrote: »
After a good night's sleep and a coffee, I realized [snip] I will explain a bit more(abet simplified).Not really.
The furnishing bag idea, which is what I had mentioned is not housing. It is inventory of items not placed in a home. The relevance to the thread is Zos explanation why that is not being added as the same reasoning can be extended to making our bank inventory larger. Housing itself is not the issue as they have limited the size of the query for housing as they have limited the size of the query concerning our bank inventory.
/snip
However, to suggest the problem and reason we cannot have more bank space is due to housing as you are here does not make sense. As stated, they limited the size of that query. The larger the query the larger the load placed on the servers to deliver it. That is exactly what is happening when we go into our homes, and access our bank or bag inventory.
/snip
The GUI doesn't care what the button on it does. It is its own element. You could have inventory separated into 3 buttons.
Button 1 and 2 can do what you see the current game do... Link to the exact same inventory or two inventory clusters all with the same immediate query priority. IE with these two buttons everything is constantly checked or preloaded somewhere so when you hit >I< you instantly get an open bag populated with items. Hell, you could even have a temp list loaded on the client for the illusion of faster access since inventory doesn't really change all that fast.
Minor edit for bait.
[snip]
I only quoted the first to paragraphs as most of the rest followed the second paragraph here. This is not what you have been discussing in any manner. You have not been discussing redesigning how Zos setup storage in your replies to me so do not come in talking about we do not have the same degree of common sense and you have to educate us. That is just being condescending in a way that is very much full of it. LOL
Regardless, while I have been critical of how Zos has managed this game I would expect that if reducing server load inventory causes was as easy as your new idea it would have already been done or would be in the Performance Improvement Plan they just started executing. Heck, maybe they will learn something from your new idea if they were not already turned off from this thread, though I do not think it would be that simple
Also, I am not suggesting Zos never again add more storage. All I did was state Zos' reasoning for not adding a furnishing bag (server load) and that the same reasoning would apply to adding more bank storage and you blasted me for that. I have merely tried to explain how db queries work and you argue about housing and such..
Minor edit for bait.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on December 11, 2019 8:31PM0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
No, because hoarders keep saving all sorts of stuff there's no need to save. Just because they added, for ex, four new sets in an expansion? You don't need to gather & store all four of them. Or the twenty previous ones. Or multiple copies of all the new style pages for if you ever make several new crafters. Etc, etc, etc.
They are not the only things people are having issues with.
Yes, you can streamline, but there comes a point where you have run out of room, whatever you (reasonably) do.
Also, people need temporary storage for things like motifs
I don't have either the time, or the inclination, to stop playing immediately, go to a bank in a town and stick everything I get up for sale, the moment I get it.
So, I need some extra space, until I can get around to selling it.
Same goes for things that are so temporarily underpriced (due to events, or whatever), or the market is so temporarily flooded with them, that they are not currently worth selling.
Other games add storage, as they add content.
They do it for a reason.
It's not even like we can list things on the hoof, or list as many things as we like (without a limit), or leave them on there permanently, until they sell, either.
All things you can do in GW2, by the way.Edited by Tigerseye on December 11, 2019 6:16AM1 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭Yes, you can streamline, but there comes a point where you have run out of room, whatever you (reasonably) do.
i have 12 toons, everyone of them has at least 50 spaces left. my bank hovers between 220 and 230, depending on the surveys from writs i have, that i transfer to main max crafter. i do not have eso+. i have not ran out of room, i do everything in the game and have for almost 5 years. as i have said before, in this thread, there is no, reasonable, cap to inventory that hoarders would be okay with. if there is a cap, they will come against it.Edited by OG_Kaveman on December 11, 2019 6:12AM1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Grianasteri wrote: »
You can make words mean everything if you cut the context. There was further explanation contained in that post. I've been playing this game for 4 years, but had no storage problem because I always planned in advance, using the solutions I enumerated there. Efficient inventory management, making gold, planning a build is also game knowledge, just like rotation, keeping up buffs, playing dungeon mechanics etc.
Clearly didn't do housing, to any significant extent, during that time, though.
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Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »Yes, you can streamline, but there comes a point where you have run out of room, whatever you (reasonably) do.
i have 12 toons, everyone of them has at least 50 spaces left. my bank hovers between 220 and 230, depending on the surveys from writs i have, that i transfer to main max crafter. i do not have eso+. i have not ran out of room, i do everything in the game and have for almost 5 years. as i have said before, in this thread, there is no, reasonable, cap to inventory that hoarders would be okay with. if there is a cap, they will come against it.
Do you do housing seriously?
Another thing is, I don't really do alts and I don't want to do alts.
So, I have not maximised storage on them, let alone bought new char slots.
I'm simply not interested in logging in and out, to different chars I don't play, all day.
I see far too many loading screens, as it is.Edited by Tigerseye on December 11, 2019 6:43AM0 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »Yes, you can streamline, but there comes a point where you have run out of room, whatever you (reasonably) do.
i have 12 toons, everyone of them has at least 50 spaces left. my bank hovers between 220 and 230, depending on the surveys from writs i have, that i transfer to main max crafter. i do not have eso+. i have not ran out of room, i do everything in the game and have for almost 5 years. as i have said before, in this thread, there is no, reasonable, cap to inventory that hoarders would be okay with. if there is a cap, they will come against it.
Do you do housing seriously?
Is there really an answer to this that you would accept or would you keep moving those goalposts?1
