nafensoriel wrote: »Not so much. That you think my comment is about housing's shows you did not read or understand what I said. In fact it was you that mentioned housing.
I mentioned Zos' response to a furnishing bag which is storage very similar to bank inventory.I merely mentioned what Zos said about a furnishing bag and how that impacted server load as that is relevant. So please go back and read my posts more carefully and understand it is not about housing as I never mentioned that, it is about inventory storage and the impact on server performance which is already poor.
Again I repeat that housing was an entirely ground-up new build for them. It doesn't matter how totally FUBARed their inventory system was if the icon on your GUI doesn't link to that snake pit of garbage. They linked it to the snake pit. That is bad design choices. Very bad. It's one of the first times I can categorically say they did something in the absolute cheapest way possible.
Furnishing bags did not exist without housing. So, of course, I'm going to refer to them as "housing" when talking about the entirely new element they built from the ground up. If they can't figure out how to disassociate their storage for a brand new element then their base game is a nightmare or someone made very bad choices.
My point was they are screwing their inventory system by doubling down on it even when they are making new content.
You don't extinguish a fire with gasoline. I understand you might have meant a more broad statement but I can forgive the base games issues. The base game is 5 years old. It can be cranky and broken. I cannot forgive a new element issue.
Have no idea what you are trying to say here, especially since you are still focused on housing.
I have explained it as well as I can in layman's terms. If you cannot forgive whatever this new element issue is then maybe a different game is in order.
Thrasher91604 wrote: »Like I said, the insanity of releasing sets that aren’t worth collecting is part of the problem. It’s a total thoughtless mess to do that.
nafensoriel wrote: »There is a server load issue.
Zos has not spoken to basic bag or bank inventory specifically but they did mention why they will not be adding a furnishing bag. It is server load and adding that or inventory adds much more of a load than the crafting bag due to the huge number of items compared to the limited crafting matts.
This is probably why they added small chests as their last addition to our storage capability. They access significantly less information due to their limited size.
Are you sure they weren't talking about actual items in a house? It is a really weak argument otherwise since secondary storage doesn't have to be "instant" like opening up your inventory. There is almost no reason design-wise for the slow storage of massed goods to not be a thing since we quite bluntly do it in every single other industry.
Though that said if someone really screwed the pooch with the design I could easily see storage being a huge headache.
Positive. They were specifically speaking to a furniture bag and explained the difference between that and the crafting bag. Essentially 500000 of one item requires a lot less server work to pull up than 1 of 10 items with how a db works. Just look at how long a query takes to bring up a small handful of items at a popular guild trader.
Also, it is still server the same server load if it is portioned out over a 10-20 seconds or it displays in just a few since the server is responding to a great many inventory requests at the same time. So that is one very good reason why "design-wise" the added storage, even slowed down, would be a thing. Additionally complain about slow responses
Being that we know there is in FACT a server load issue we have been experiencing in ESO and that Zos has begun a process to reduce that load there is a very logical and strong argument. Yes, I know a hard reality is not convenient your argument.
BTW, many of us that hoard, and yes I am one, realized that after the crafting bag emptied out so much of our inventory we just filled it up. When Zos doubled our bank storage us hoarders filled it up again. So to suggest we need more space because we have run out of room in our inventory is a pretty weak argument. For most of us we fill it with stuff we have never used and probably never will. Decon is our friend.
WTF you talking about, they keep adding sets and items/furniture every patch, its been hundreds of things added, they ARE FORCING ESO+ witht that.
We loved ESO+ and the freedom it gave at the moment because people were spending hundreds of combined hours, login in/out of "mules", the bank was impossible to manage, and the chests are a LAZY SOLUTION because you cant check with banker what you have, you have to go to a house to check 1 by 1 where you left X item
And no, being forced to decon a piece you want just because you need the space?, I hadt to run around 30 times Scalecaller Peak at the moment to get a damn necklace of Jorvuld?
And that was considering I did those dungeonruns with friends who were gonna give me the piece. Same for a friend who was looking a lighting staff of the same set and WE never got it.
Is people like you defending the horrendous behavior of ZOS regarding storage that they will never take another step to alleviate the burden of Inventory Management Online aka ESO
nafensoriel wrote: »There is a server load issue.
Zos has not spoken to basic bag or bank inventory specifically but they did mention why they will not be adding a furnishing bag. It is server load and adding that or inventory adds much more of a load than the crafting bag due to the huge number of items compared to the limited crafting matts.
This is probably why they added small chests as their last addition to our storage capability. They access significantly less information due to their limited size.
Are you sure they weren't talking about actual items in a house? It is a really weak argument otherwise since secondary storage doesn't have to be "instant" like opening up your inventory. There is almost no reason design-wise for the slow storage of massed goods to not be a thing since we quite bluntly do it in every single other industry.
Though that said if someone really screwed the pooch with the design I could easily see storage being a huge headache.
Positive. They were specifically speaking to a furniture bag and explained the difference between that and the crafting bag. Essentially 500000 of one item requires a lot less server work to pull up than 1 of 10 items with how a db works. Just look at how long a query takes to bring up a small handful of items at a popular guild trader.
Also, it is still server the same server load if it is portioned out over a 10-20 seconds or it displays in just a few since the server is responding to a great many inventory requests at the same time. So that is one very good reason why "design-wise" the added storage, even slowed down, would be a thing. Additionally complain about slow responses
Being that we know there is in FACT a server load issue we have been experiencing in ESO and that Zos has begun a process to reduce that load there is a very logical and strong argument. Yes, I know a hard reality is not convenient your argument.
BTW, many of us that hoard, and yes I am one, realized that after the crafting bag emptied out so much of our inventory we just filled it up. When Zos doubled our bank storage us hoarders filled it up again. So to suggest we need more space because we have run out of room in our inventory is a pretty weak argument. For most of us we fill it with stuff we have never used and probably never will. Decon is our friend.
WTF you talking about, they keep adding sets and items/furniture every patch, its been hundreds of things added, they ARE FORCING ESO+ witht that.
We loved ESO+ and the freedom it gave at the moment because people were spending hundreds of combined hours, login in/out of "mules", the bank was impossible to manage, and the chests are a LAZY SOLUTION because you cant check with banker what you have, you have to go to a house to check 1 by 1 where you left X item
And no, being forced to decon a piece you want just because you need the space?, I hadt to run around 30 times Scalecaller Peak at the moment to get a damn necklace of Jorvuld?
And that was considering I did those dungeonruns with friends who were gonna give me the piece. Same for a friend who was looking a lighting staff of the same set and WE never got it.
Is people like you defending the horrendous behavior of ZOS regarding storage that they will never take another step to alleviate the burden of Inventory Management Online aka ESO
nafensoriel wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »Not so much. That you think my comment is about housing's shows you did not read or understand what I said. In fact it was you that mentioned housing.
I mentioned Zos' response to a furnishing bag which is storage very similar to bank inventory.I merely mentioned what Zos said about a furnishing bag and how that impacted server load as that is relevant. So please go back and read my posts more carefully and understand it is not about housing as I never mentioned that, it is about inventory storage and the impact on server performance which is already poor.
Again I repeat that housing was an entirely ground-up new build for them. It doesn't matter how totally FUBARed their inventory system was if the icon on your GUI doesn't link to that snake pit of garbage. They linked it to the snake pit. That is bad design choices. Very bad. It's one of the first times I can categorically say they did something in the absolute cheapest way possible.
Furnishing bags did not exist without housing. So, of course, I'm going to refer to them as "housing" when talking about the entirely new element they built from the ground up. If they can't figure out how to disassociate their storage for a brand new element then their base game is a nightmare or someone made very bad choices.
My point was they are screwing their inventory system by doubling down on it even when they are making new content.
You don't extinguish a fire with gasoline. I understand you might have meant a more broad statement but I can forgive the base games issues. The base game is 5 years old. It can be cranky and broken. I cannot forgive a new element issue.
Have no idea what you are trying to say here, especially since you are still focused on housing.
I have explained it as well as I can in layman's terms. If you cannot forgive whatever this new element issue is then maybe a different game is in order.
Element=Exactly what it says. Since we aren't talking about chemistry its an element of a greater whole.
Not focusing on housing. Calling out the BS that creating a "crafting bag" or "increasing inventory" would cause an overt amount of load. ZOS saying "we can't make a crafting bag for furniture because it will cause to much load" is horse poop.
Housing was an entirely brand new codebase. Any performance issues with the inventory of a brand new thing that exists 99.9% of the time in secondary storage are highlighting a bad design choice.
ZOS(or anyone else) saying increasing inventory size of secondary storage(IE not your hit the >I< key and instantly get inventory is bad design. Why the ever living hell would you have SECONDARY STORAGE exist anywhere near the same priority of active inventory. We do this crap with servers all the time. Giant bloody bank of HDs and a tiny block of really high-end SSDs. Suggesting there is a performance issue with adding items or storing items suggests all storage is identical.. which is... absolutely insane.
nafensoriel wrote: »gpkreutzerub17_ESO wrote: »with all the new content and items the max of 480 for banking bags needs to increase.
For some reason, everyone and their brother in the MMO business thinks a small inventory size encourages play. The exact mechanic varies by who you talk to but in general its "if you can't have everything you'll have to go do something every time we change something".
The problem with that concept is MMO players are HOARDERS. Elder Scrolls/fallout players are even WORSE.
I had soooooo many skulls in containers in Skyrim I actually crashed one of my saves.
If we had 5000 slot banks it would be a conservative guess to suggest that over half the players would suddenly go into "collect all the sets" mode. Why MMO developers don't get the hoarder market I don't understand.
nafensoriel wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »Not so much. That you think my comment is about housing's shows you did not read or understand what I said. In fact it was you that mentioned housing.
I mentioned Zos' response to a furnishing bag which is storage very similar to bank inventory.I merely mentioned what Zos said about a furnishing bag and how that impacted server load as that is relevant. So please go back and read my posts more carefully and understand it is not about housing as I never mentioned that, it is about inventory storage and the impact on server performance which is already poor.
Again I repeat that housing was an entirely ground-up new build for them. It doesn't matter how totally FUBARed their inventory system was if the icon on your GUI doesn't link to that snake pit of garbage. They linked it to the snake pit. That is bad design choices. Very bad. It's one of the first times I can categorically say they did something in the absolute cheapest way possible.
Furnishing bags did not exist without housing. So, of course, I'm going to refer to them as "housing" when talking about the entirely new element they built from the ground up. If they can't figure out how to disassociate their storage for a brand new element then their base game is a nightmare or someone made very bad choices.
My point was they are screwing their inventory system by doubling down on it even when they are making new content.
You don't extinguish a fire with gasoline. I understand you might have meant a more broad statement but I can forgive the base games issues. The base game is 5 years old. It can be cranky and broken. I cannot forgive a new element issue.
Have no idea what you are trying to say here, especially since you are still focused on housing.
I have explained it as well as I can in layman's terms. If you cannot forgive whatever this new element issue is then maybe a different game is in order.
Element=Exactly what it says. Since we aren't talking about chemistry its an element of a greater whole.
Not focusing on housing. Calling out the BS that creating a "crafting bag" or "increasing inventory" would cause an overt amount of load. ZOS saying "we can't make a crafting bag for furniture because it will cause to much load" is horse poop.
Housing was an entirely brand new codebase. Any performance issues with the inventory of a brand new thing that exists 99.9% of the time in secondary storage are highlighting a bad design choice.
ZOS(or anyone else) saying increasing inventory size of secondary storage(IE not your hit the >I< key and instantly get inventory is bad design. Why the ever living hell would you have SECONDARY STORAGE exist anywhere near the same priority of active inventory. We do this crap with servers all the time. Giant bloody bank of HDs and a tiny block of really high-end SSDs. Suggesting there is a performance issue with adding items or storing items suggests all storage is identical.. which is... absolutely insane.
Don't tell me you are not talking about housing when you are the first one that mentioned it and the last post had two paragraphs mentioning it. I have not discussed housing itself at all.
I have merely pointed out the db issue based on what Zos has told us before and the chests they added makes sense in the context of how a db works and the issues Zos stated. I could care less that you do not understand it.
Furnishing is housing.Zos has not spoken to basic bag or bank inventory specifically but they did mention why they will not be adding a furnishing bag
Respect4Elders wrote: »It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it.
nafensoriel wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »Not so much. That you think my comment is about housing's shows you did not read or understand what I said. In fact it was you that mentioned housing.
I mentioned Zos' response to a furnishing bag which is storage very similar to bank inventory.I merely mentioned what Zos said about a furnishing bag and how that impacted server load as that is relevant. So please go back and read my posts more carefully and understand it is not about housing as I never mentioned that, it is about inventory storage and the impact on server performance which is already poor.
Again I repeat that housing was an entirely ground-up new build for them. It doesn't matter how totally FUBARed their inventory system was if the icon on your GUI doesn't link to that snake pit of garbage. They linked it to the snake pit. That is bad design choices. Very bad. It's one of the first times I can categorically say they did something in the absolute cheapest way possible.
Furnishing bags did not exist without housing. So, of course, I'm going to refer to them as "housing" when talking about the entirely new element they built from the ground up. If they can't figure out how to disassociate their storage for a brand new element then their base game is a nightmare or someone made very bad choices.
My point was they are screwing their inventory system by doubling down on it even when they are making new content.
You don't extinguish a fire with gasoline. I understand you might have meant a more broad statement but I can forgive the base games issues. The base game is 5 years old. It can be cranky and broken. I cannot forgive a new element issue.
Have no idea what you are trying to say here, especially since you are still focused on housing.
I have explained it as well as I can in layman's terms. If you cannot forgive whatever this new element issue is then maybe a different game is in order.
Element=Exactly what it says. Since we aren't talking about chemistry its an element of a greater whole.
Not focusing on housing. Calling out the BS that creating a "crafting bag" or "increasing inventory" would cause an overt amount of load. ZOS saying "we can't make a crafting bag for furniture because it will cause to much load" is horse poop.
Housing was an entirely brand new codebase. Any performance issues with the inventory of a brand new thing that exists 99.9% of the time in secondary storage are highlighting a bad design choice.
ZOS(or anyone else) saying increasing inventory size of secondary storage(IE not your hit the >I< key and instantly get inventory is bad design. Why the ever living hell would you have SECONDARY STORAGE exist anywhere near the same priority of active inventory. We do this crap with servers all the time. Giant bloody bank of HDs and a tiny block of really high-end SSDs. Suggesting there is a performance issue with adding items or storing items suggests all storage is identical.. which is... absolutely insane.
Don't tell me you are not talking about housing when you are the first one that mentioned it and the last post had two paragraphs mentioning it. I have not discussed housing itself at all.
I have merely pointed out the db issue based on what Zos has told us before and the chests they added makes sense in the context of how a db works and the issues Zos stated. I could care less that you do not understand it.Furnishing is housing.Zos has not spoken to basic bag or bank inventory specifically but they did mention why they will not be adding a furnishing bag
A bed doesn't exist without housing. My argument is that if they are claiming they cannot add a furnishing bag because it would cause database load issues then someone made a colossally terrible choice. Housing is 100% new ZOS. Not pre 1T. Not the disaster they caused after launch. Pure new team. The only functional way they could have "loading issues" on an entirely new piece of code that has storage is if they went as cheap as humanly possible and tried to bolt on crap to crap.
Again. Entire point is that they made a new element and strapped it on burning garbage and that is not a valid excuse to being unable to increase inventory.
If you cannot quite grasp why the entire argument of "they said their DB couldn't handle it" and then strapped HOUSING onto what they ADMITTED to being a STRESSED system is a BAD idea... well can't help you anymore. It means if technical limitations are to blame for lack of inventory increases they only exist due to bad design choices.
The craft bag is the only thing keeping many people subscribed, and ZoS won't risk that steady revenue. It's a business decision, not a technical limitation.
They could add 10 bank slots (20 for ESO+) to the max with each chapter without making the crafting bag less attractive. It would also encourage chapter sales.
Yes, and this would also have the virtue of the maxed-out bank space no longer being such a weird number. Why 480? It just irritates me every time I see it... 500 would make much more sense.
It's not 480, it's 240. I don't know why you keep saying 480!
Bank space is 240. Doubled with ESO+.
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
No, because hoarders keep saving all sorts of stuff there's no need to save. Just because they added, for ex, four new sets in an expansion? You don't need to gather & store all four of them. Or the twenty previous ones. Or multiple copies of all the new style pages for if you ever make several new crafters. Etc, etc, etc.
nafensoriel wrote: »gpkreutzerub17_ESO wrote: »with all the new content and items the max of 480 for banking bags needs to increase.
For some reason, everyone and their brother in the MMO business thinks a small inventory size encourages play. The exact mechanic varies by who you talk to but in general its "if you can't have everything you'll have to go do something every time we change something".
The problem with that concept is MMO players are HOARDERS. Elder Scrolls/fallout players are even WORSE.
I had soooooo many skulls in containers in Skyrim I actually crashed one of my saves.
If we had 5000 slot banks it would be a conservative guess to suggest that over half the players would suddenly go into "collect all the sets" mode. Why MMO developers don't get the hoarder market I don't understand.
The problem with that concept is MMO players are HOARDERS. Elder Scrolls/fallout players are even WORSE.
I had soooooo many skulls in containers in Skyrim I actually crashed one of my saves.
If we had 5000 slot banks it would be a conservative guess to suggest that over half the players would suddenly go into "collect all the sets" mode. Why MMO developers don't get the hoarder market I don't understand.
I had ~9000 slots in Skyrim I remember there was some quest when we had to go somewhere with empty inventory, and it was a pain to put all my items to storage... I would definitely love 9000 bank space in ESO! ...Ok, even 1000 bank pace would be nice. I still think about many sets which I would farm if I had more space.Those that hoard like myself save everything that we might use if the stars align just right but most of it is just junk that collects dust.
I think it's much less of a problem if somebody plays only 1 character, or only one role... Few PvP sets, few PvE sets, and it's enough. Unfortunately, I like to have characters of every class and role, and thus I collect any sets that might be good for all of those characters
Ryath_Waylander wrote: »The problem with that concept is MMO players are HOARDERS. Elder Scrolls/fallout players are even WORSE.
I had soooooo many skulls in containers in Skyrim I actually crashed one of my saves.
If we had 5000 slot banks it would be a conservative guess to suggest that over half the players would suddenly go into "collect all the sets" mode. Why MMO developers don't get the hoarder market I don't understand.
I had ~9000 slots in Skyrim I remember there was some quest when we had to go somewhere with empty inventory, and it was a pain to put all my items to storage... I would definitely love 9000 bank space in ESO! ...Ok, even 1000 bank pace would be nice. I still think about many sets which I would farm if I had more space.Those that hoard like myself save everything that we might use if the stars align just right but most of it is just junk that collects dust.
I think it's much less of a problem if somebody plays only 1 character, or only one role... Few PvP sets, few PvE sets, and it's enough. Unfortunately, I like to have characters of every class and role, and thus I collect any sets that might be good for all of those characters
Also if you lean towards Healing/tanking, there aren't just one or two sets that are good. You're lugging different sets around for different dungeons/trials
After a good night's sleep and a coffee, I realized [snip] I will explain a bit more(abet simplified).Not really.
The furnishing bag idea, which is what I had mentioned is not housing. It is inventory of items not placed in a home. The relevance to the thread is Zos explanation why that is not being added as the same reasoning can be extended to making our bank inventory larger. Housing itself is not the issue as they have limited the size of the query for housing as they have limited the size of the query concerning our bank inventory.
/snip
However, to suggest the problem and reason we cannot have more bank space is due to housing as you are here does not make sense. As stated, they limited the size of that query. The larger the query the larger the load placed on the servers to deliver it. That is exactly what is happening when we go into our homes, and access our bank or bag inventory.
/snip
January1171 wrote: »I can begrudginly accept the inventory will never be significantly increased.
But for Sheogorath's sake increase the cap to 250/500! The current 240/480 drives me crazy.
[
You... you understand that you literally answered your own question in the very next sentence, right?
Yes, 240 is the standard amount for bank space. Doubled for ESO+, that's... you guessed it... 480!
(Edited to add: in either case, 240 is a weird, random cut-off number, as is 480. It would make much more sense to many of us to have it set at 250/500.)
Cause if you just cry for more than 480, then there is the chance that ESO+ will get the increase by just tripling instead of doubling the + amount.
As I am not a + holder, I don't want to be left out of the bank increase.
It is good as it is. Lack of space is simply an L2P problem:
1) Furnishings can be stored in homes, no need to clog your bank with it; buying some homes is cheaper than what would the next bank slot would cost if it were available, by looking at the price progression.
nafensoriel wrote: »After a good night's sleep and a coffee, I realized [snip] I will explain a bit more(abet simplified).Not really.
The furnishing bag idea, which is what I had mentioned is not housing. It is inventory of items not placed in a home. The relevance to the thread is Zos explanation why that is not being added as the same reasoning can be extended to making our bank inventory larger. Housing itself is not the issue as they have limited the size of the query for housing as they have limited the size of the query concerning our bank inventory.
/snip
However, to suggest the problem and reason we cannot have more bank space is due to housing as you are here does not make sense. As stated, they limited the size of that query. The larger the query the larger the load placed on the servers to deliver it. That is exactly what is happening when we go into our homes, and access our bank or bag inventory.
/snip
The GUI doesn't care what the button on it does. It is its own element. You could have inventory separated into 3 buttons.
Button 1 and 2 can do what you see the current game do... Link to the exact same inventory or two inventory clusters all with the same immediate query priority. IE with these two buttons everything is constantly checked or preloaded somewhere so when you hit >I< you instantly get an open bag populated with items. Hell, you could even have a temp list loaded on the client for the illusion of faster access since inventory doesn't really change all that fast.
Minor edit for bait.
Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
No, because hoarders keep saving all sorts of stuff there's no need to save. Just because they added, for ex, four new sets in an expansion? You don't need to gather & store all four of them. Or the twenty previous ones. Or multiple copies of all the new style pages for if you ever make several new crafters. Etc, etc, etc.
Yes, you can streamline, but there comes a point where you have run out of room, whatever you (reasonably) do.
Grianasteri wrote: »
You can make words mean everything if you cut the context. There was further explanation contained in that post. I've been playing this game for 4 years, but had no storage problem because I always planned in advance, using the solutions I enumerated there. Efficient inventory management, making gold, planning a build is also game knowledge, just like rotation, keeping up buffs, playing dungeon mechanics etc.
OG_Kaveman wrote: »Yes, you can streamline, but there comes a point where you have run out of room, whatever you (reasonably) do.
i have 12 toons, everyone of them has at least 50 spaces left. my bank hovers between 220 and 230, depending on the surveys from writs i have, that i transfer to main max crafter. i do not have eso+. i have not ran out of room, i do everything in the game and have for almost 5 years. as i have said before, in this thread, there is no, reasonable, cap to inventory that hoarders would be okay with. if there is a cap, they will come against it.
OG_Kaveman wrote: »Yes, you can streamline, but there comes a point where you have run out of room, whatever you (reasonably) do.
i have 12 toons, everyone of them has at least 50 spaces left. my bank hovers between 220 and 230, depending on the surveys from writs i have, that i transfer to main max crafter. i do not have eso+. i have not ran out of room, i do everything in the game and have for almost 5 years. as i have said before, in this thread, there is no, reasonable, cap to inventory that hoarders would be okay with. if there is a cap, they will come against it.
Do you do housing seriously?