Which houses have you NOT bought and why?

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka · November 2019

Greetings,

Some posts were removed from this thread due to their non-constructive nature. Please remember to be civil and abide to the community rules in your discussions.

bluebird · November 2019

Tigerseye wrote: »

The mould in the (once again, badly laid-out and overly pared back) Lucky Cat's Landing isn't really ideal, either.

If you're not really into building, in this game - just furnishing - you've been kind of out of luck all year, with the exception of the inn room.

As virtually every home has required an element of building, to one extent or another.

Sporvan is, also, correct in saying that sticking to the same style all year is unusual.

As I say, it didn't bother me personally, from that point of view, but I can see why it would be an added annoyance to anyone who didn't like the style.

Yeah, people can have different tastes, as we see here, so there's always going to be a variety of opinions.

You mention disliking the mould, but some people liked it because it fits in with the run-down Pellitine vibe. Some people loved the ruins Halls of the Lunar Champion, while others like me just use that house for free furniture storage. Some people like every single Elsweyr house, others only like a few and have many issues with the others.

For example, I thought that most houses were furnishable as is, they didn't require building (apart from Moon-Sugar Meadow ofc). Adding custom buildings and sprucing up the homes with structural items made them a lot more bearable, but I don't think it was a necessity any more than other house releases (e.g. someone may have build a custom house in the 1st unlockable wing of HoTC, while others just put a garden and statuary furnishings there; the same way someone may have built custom structures on the Gorinir Estate or just chose to furnish the pods).

So since opinions vary, it's probably not conceivable for ZOS to make housing decisions based on some players' 'I liked this' 'I liked that', so I get that they have a tough time.

However, there are some objective criticisms to be raised, some of these being recurring complaints, so ZOS could definitely take some improvement suggestions from all the feedback we've been leaving on countless housing threads:

Some players liked the mould, some players didn't. So why not make a scuffed looking house, but not several scuffed looking houses, so that both types of people can choose the style they like without having to waste furniture slots on adding fake walls or tapestries to make their build tolerable. The concern that palatial houses with palatial price tags look cheap and mouldy was already raised on the PTS.
Some players like ruins, some players don't. But all players like player choice! So why not make rubble removable? They made the rubble piles in HotLC removable which was nice, but the walls and pillars and windows in HotLC and P'sR are still chipped and run-down.
Some players don't like giant unremovable boulders and crystals, others aren't bothered by them. But why not make them removable so that people can leave it but also remove it if they want to? The big rocks in the middle of Moon-Sugar Meadow were surprisingly un-movable, despite the other plants and temple structures being movable. People noted this on the PTS thread.
Some people want to have all Elsweyr style houses, some people only want one or two and then they're done with it, some don't want a single one. So how about offering a good variety of houses like you always did, instead of making 6 out of 9 houses the same style? Far more unique and varied styles only have 1 house each, or not even a single house, so offering a less repetitive house selection would have appealed to a greater demographic of players.
Some people like over-the-top dramatic themed builds, some don't. But if you make a niche strongly themed house like Wraithhome, why not make sure that it ends up polished? Instead of copy-pasting walls and floors at odd angles, with patterns that are misaligned or aggressively don't match up, which makes the house - despite its splendour - look like a rushed patch-job. Please make sure to QA your homes before you greenlight them.
Many people are frustrated by not being able to furnish larger homes due to the furnishing limit, while others don't mind giant manors that are sparsely filled. You regularly release the giant hard-to-furnish manors, so why not release more moderate houses too? Lucky Cat Landing was a step in the right direction, but it got a medium slot limit. Why not increase the slots to 500 or 600? People who always complain about wanting more medium homes and more housing slots would have been happy, and people who don't mind the limits wouldn't have minded either way. Instead of a win-win, LCL became another disappointment to many.
Why not get inspired by the many idea threads on the Forums, and implement highly requested houses, instead of just going with whatever is currently copy-paste-able? Plenty of players suggested already existing ingame buildings that could be just as easily converted into player houses, with many requests for unique unavailable styles popping up regularly (e.g. Orc Longhouse, Ayleid, the Clockwork houses with the staircases, Bosmer treehouses, etc).

So despite personal preferences, there are some objective areas of improvement in which ZOS could perhaps listen more to housing suggestions and PTS feedback. Because as for variety, this year was factually the most repetitive, despite the housing releases never actually being limited by the location of the current DLCs. More unique DLCs only got 1 house dedicated to them, and more varied styles like the ones from Morrowind also only have 1, with many other styles having 0, so there was no reason to add 6 Elsweyr style homes. And the monetization was also the worst of all years, since players could only get 2/4th of one house through ingame means with the rest being locked behind DLC purchases or Crown paywalls.

Now, what ZOS do with this is up to them of course, but it's important to note these so that there's an awareness at least.

Sporvan · November 2019

Since this thread seems to be derailing (again) into disagreeing about housing diversity right now here's some interesting data:

2017 - Housing Gets Introduced.. To be expected we had more houses to releases as Homestead was one of the chief features. These houses were after the initial batch got released.

Houses from DLC and Chapters (Morrowind + Clockwork):
Hlaalu Style:* - Saint Delyn Penthouse & Amanya Lake Lodge
Redoran Style:* - Ald Velothi Harbor House
Telvanni Style:* - Tel Galen
*Note: One could group all of these as "Morrowind" style but they each have their unique flair and difference. Just as one could group all of the "Elsweyr" houses this year as but that isn't factually correct.
Clockwork Style - The Observatory Prior

Non-DLC & Chapters:
Breton Witch - Exorcised Coven Cottage
Imperial - Enchanted Snow Globe Home
Orc - Pariah Pinnacle
Nord - Hakkvild High Hall

Totals: 9 Houses, 5 DLC & Chapter Related, 2 Houses with the repeated style.

2018

Houses from DLC and Chapters( Summerset + Murkmire):
Alinor Style* - Golden Gryphon Garret & Alinor Crest Townhouse
Alinor Cave* - Colossal Aldmeri Grotto
Alinor Psijiic* - Grand Psijic Villa
*Note: One could group all of these as "Alinor" style but they each have their unique flair and difference. Just as one could group all of the "Elsweyr" houses this year as but that isn't factually correct.
Murkmire Style - Lakemire Xanmeer Manor

Non-DLC & Chapters:
Hircine Realm - Hunter’s Glade
Empty Nature Coldharbour - Coldharbour Surreal Estate
Redguard - Princely Dawnlight Palace
Imperial Cave - The Erstwhile Sanctuary

Totals: 9 Houses, 5 DLC & Chapter Related, 2 Houses with repeated style

2019

Houses from DLC and Chapters ( Elsweyr + Dragonhold):
Rimmen Style* - Sugar Bowl Suite & Jode’s Embrace
Senchal Style* - Lucky Cat Landing
Ancient Elsweyr Style* - Hall of the Lunar Champion
Empty Nature Elsweyr* - Moon Sugar Meadow
Imperial Elsweyr Hybrid* - Potentate’s Retreat
*Note: One could group all of these as "Elsweyr" houses but that is factually incorrect. It's self explanatory when you view these houses that they have different looks, similar to housing from other year's chapters. Sure, they may share some individual elements like a wall colour or material here or there, just as previous years like Summerset did - but they are fundamentally different. This is not subjective.

Non-DLC & Chapters:
Imperial - Elinhir Private Arena
Dwemer - Frostvault Chasm
Deadric - Wraithhome

Totals: 9 Houses, 6 DLC & Chapter Related, 2 Houses with repeated style

The only difference is that in 2019 we had one more house that was related to DLC and Chapters versus the other years. Arguably, the housing diversity was the same though. However, like I've said before because Elsweyr was the focal point you either loved or hated the bulk of the housing this year because the setting was such. I'm certain next year being Skyrim focused we will see a similar trend. I'm fine with that as it allows you to explore the variety of housing _within_ a setting. It allows for much more immersion.

EDIT: Technically Potentate's Retreat isn't released yet, we'll see with December's showcase.

bluebird · November 2019

Sporvan wrote: »

*Note: One could group all of these as "Morrowind" style but they each have their unique flair and difference. Just as one could group all of the "Elsweyr" houses this year as but that isn't factually correct.

[...]

*Note: One could group all of these as "Elsweyr" houses but that is factually incorrect. It's self explanatory when you view these houses that they have different looks, similar to housing from other year's chapters. Sure, they may share some individual elements like a wall colour or material here or there, just as previous years like Summerset did - but they are different. This is not subjective.

Here are some pictures so people can decide for themselves. Consider the silhouette of the houses, the roofs, the doorways, windows, and ornamentations, materials and colour scheme, etc. - consider all the design elements that go into these houses. There were obviously differences between individual houses within the whole batch, but that doesn't mean that the houses were varied when their styles and general features are very similar. The pictures speak for themselves.

Here are the Elsweyr houses:

The repetitiveness of designs and structures is the same in the ruin-style Elsweyr houses too:

So we can clearly distinguish two disctinct Elsweyr styles - Wood (peaked roofs, red paint or brow wood walls, shaped doors with filigree, golden windows, and gold ornamentation) and Stone (worn and chipped texture, rectangular columns, shaped stone arches, stone alcoves, and pointed spire decorations on top). Morrowind homes don't fall into such similar categories and there are far less features that their designs have in common, in many instances barely anything.

Here are the Morrowind houses for comparison:

The difference between the Morrowind houses is visibly, objectively, far greater than the difference between the Elsweyr houses. Rimmen and Senchal in Northern and Souther Elsweyr combined have far more in common in all aspects of their architecture from silhouette to windows and doors to roofs and ornaments (they do have a different paintjob but the colour schemes are still very similar throughout). While the styles of Morrowind are far more varied within the same Chapter alone, we don't even have to consider the CWC DLC that followed it.

Bear in mind that nobody is trying to take away people's enjoyment of the houses, it's perfectly fine to like all Elsweyr homes that were released. Tastes vary. That's subjective and nobody has an issue with that.

However, all the evidence shows that Elsweyr houses were far more similar to each other, and they still got more houses than other styles which are more diverse and still only got one house each (Telvanni, Vivec). Even when a DLC with unique architecture was dedicated to them, they still only got one house (CWC, Murkmire). There are also styles which still have no house even though they featured in Chapters (Ashlander, Psijic). So these are the facts on variety. Nobody could seriously make the case that the Morrowind houses (4) are just as similar to each other as the Elsweyr ones (6) - this year's housing designs were clearly more repetitive than any precedent.

(Side note: Potentate's Retreat is not an 'Imperial Elsweyr Hybrid'. There are Imperial NPCs in the Senchal Palace, but the house is still Elsweyr style. The pillars are the same ones from HotLC and Jode's Embrace. The shape of the arches is also Elsweyr. And corridors, exterior, and the masonry ornamentation patterns are also Elsweyr. And a minor correction, Enchanted Snow Globe home was added in 2018. Earthtear Cavern was added in 2017 but that doesn't really matter, hence the spoiler tag)

ZOS_Nith · November 2019

Thank you for the detailed insight, we really appreciate the in depth feedback!

Sporvan · November 2019

@bluebird - you literally picked the most repetitive pictures you could find and conveniently glossed over Alinor which was farm more homogeneous that Elsweyr's varied styles and elements. The overall aesthetic of each Elsweyr home is unique. I could screenshot this for you and counter your inexhaustible replies, but frankly I don't have the time nor energy and have squandered enough being baited into constant responses.

Last time I checked the Pantheon (which is the basis for Potentate's Retreat's dome and the main focal point of the house) is located in Rome which is _the_ inspiration for anything Imperial.

I guess variety is truly in the eyes of the beholder. Regardless, I won't convince you nor will you convince me.

The End.

bluebird · November 2019

Sporvan wrote: »

bluebird - you literally picked the most repetitive pictures you could find and conveniently glossed over Alinor which was farm more homogeneous that Elsweyr's varied styles and elements.

I skipped Summerset because my post was already long enough, and the comparison between Morrowind and Elsweyr was clearly decisive enough that I would have just repeated myself if I included it too. But, in the spirit of fairness, here it is since there's no harm in providing even more evidence.

Summerset had two main house styles - Alinor (the residential buildings: flying buttresses, polished white masonry, or wood paneled walls, intricate glass windows, arches) and Aldmer (the old timeworn style: chipped and ruined stone, thick solid stone structures, colonnades). The GPV for example is an Alinor main building surrounded by Aldmer ruins, the CAG was a unique ship house docked near some Aldmer ruins. Summerset got 4 houses, the same number as Morrowind, plus one of them was the ship house.

Summerset also added the Arteum style in Ceporah Tower, but we got no house in that style, despite it being completely unique and there being several unused portals that could lead to player housing. Summerset also added the assets in the Spiral Skein, where Mephala's realm towers over a ruined Gothic landscape with foreboding dark stone spires, also no house, it simply featured once in a quest.

Morrowind: 4 styles, they are very different, 4 houses in total.
Summerset: 2 styles, they are similar, 4 houses in total.
Elsweyr: 2 styles, they are similar, 6 houses in total.
Elsweyr got 2 more homes than Summerset and Morrowind, but has 2 less styles than Morrowind. That's why I didn't include Summerset earlier, because Elsweyr has the most house style repetitions no matter how you look at it.

Anyhow, this is probably the most in-depth summary of all Chapter houses anybody has ever posted lol

. So the topic is quite exhausted by now - but at least I got to add the Summerset summary too, and I got to say 'flying buttress'! Hm, there are never enough opportunities in life to say flying buttress!

Sporvan wrote: »

I could screenshot this for you and counter your inexhaustible replies, but frankly I don't have the time nor energy and have squandered enough being baited into constant responses.

Last time I checked the Pantheon (which is the basis for Potentate's Retreat's dome and the main focal point of the house) is located in Rome which is _the_ inspiration for anything Imperial.

I guess variety is truly in the eyes of the beholder. Regardless, I won't convince you nor will you convince me.

The End.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Posting images to support an overview of this year's housing, so that even if people doubt my statements they can check the evidence that I base it on, does not count as baiting. If anybody wishes to provide pictures or some other information or other viewpoint to contrubute to the topic, nothing is stopping them.

Giving detailed feedback with pictures is not 'squandering energy', I simply do it because I'm taking this topic seriously since I'm invested in housing, but nothing is forcing anybody to keep replying when they have no inclination to add to the topic and replying is squandering energy. I'm not @-tagging you in posts for example, my posts aren't addressed at you. I post about what's being said about the topic, for the benefit of doing the question of housing justice and for the benefit of anybody reading this thread so they can see some evidence to back up what's being said.

canva-mausoleum-in-india%2C-south-asia-MAC8T9sT7Ro.jpg

canva-mausoleum-in-india%2C-south-asia-MAC8T9sT7Ro.jpg

Here's a South Asian mausoleum.

The Pantheon's Dome. It looks even more obviously not-Elsweyr like from the front, where it has a triangular pediment.

Kolkata, India; an example of the Indo-Saracenic revival style.

Senchal Palace for reference.

Domes aren't exclusive to Rome, and the Senchal Palace as well as Potentate's Retreat are clearly South-Asian buildings. Potentate's Retreat is 98% Elsweyr style, and if the pattern inside the dome may be more reminiscent of the Pantheon's rather than other, corbelled domes, that still doesn't make Potentate's Retreat an Imperial Hybrid. But that has no bearing on the main argument, which is why this is behind spoiler tags again.

On the plus side, we got some pretty irl pictures to look at to compare with the game's architecture!

Katahdin · December 2019

Apparently khajiit can only see red because every khajiit house in the game has red walls. The couches are red, the rugs are red, the pillows are red......

There is no blue or green or other colors

Araneae6537 · December 2019

Katahdin wrote: »

Apparently khajiit can only see red because every khajiit house in the game has red walls. The couches are red, the rugs are red, the pillows are red......

There is no blue or green or other colors

Many of the carpets, pillows and other Elsweyr furnishings incorporate other colors. 🤔 Plus, if you look at the motifs for each race, each has a dominant color. I really like the look of the Elsweyr architecture, furnishings and color scheme, personally.

I was very tempted by Jode’s Embrace but the price combined with the lack of continuity between the exterior and interior ultimately decided me against it.

KageNin · December 2019

None of them , because why should i support a game with such horrendous performance.

ValkyriesWolf · December 2019

@KageNin, then don't play the game, but don't comment on the forums either. Especially not in constructive discussions where your comment is so misplaced. Pls leave this conversation alone, because we don't need childish behaviour and comments