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Let's have a hard mode for quests ?
Czinczar
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I am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge. When everything dies so easily it cannot be interesting. I know this is not a new complaint but the devs really need to do something about that. And main quest enemies are even easier to defeat than normal quests enemies.
So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or normal mode. In hard mode, enemies should have more health and deal more damage and even have their skills rearranged to offer a greater challenge(let's say 4men dungeon life and damage). There could also be a hardcore mode where if you die just once after starting the quest, the quest resets and you have to start over from the beginning. And of course there could be many new achievements linked to that hard mode. Rewards could be rearranged too.
It's so sad to see all these quests and being forced to play "very easy" mode all the time. Make it a DLC if you want and I would buy it.
So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or normal mode. In hard mode, enemies should have more health and deal more damage and even have their skills rearranged to offer a greater challenge(let's say 4men dungeon life and damage). There could also be a hardcore mode where if you die just once after starting the quest, the quest resets and you have to start over from the beginning. And of course there could be many new achievements linked to that hard mode. Rewards could be rearranged too.
It's so sad to see all these quests and being forced to play "very easy" mode all the time. Make it a DLC if you want and I would buy it.
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bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.17 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In principle there's nothing wrong with that option, but I'd wager it would need to be a separate instance from everyone else due to the way ESO is structured. Could end up being a very empty experience.
Another option that had been suggested by someone was to introduce a "debuff" food/drink that you could use to essentially gimp your toon to make things harder."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard4 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Do you need a book to be hard to understand to enjoy it? I'm not opposed to hard mode. I just find the generalized logic absurd.
The suggestion of the OP is not doable. The game can't change the stats of quest mobs based on what I select. They can only change my stats. I am sharing the world with other people. In fact, I can kill a mob without even picking up a quests that also involves killing that mob. And what about all the mobs I pass along the way. I also have 20 quests open at the same time. Most towns have at least 2 quests you could be doing at the same time. They could be a mix of hard and normal. How is that managed?
If we are going to suggest a design, in needs to be something possible in this game. There is zero chance they give every player their own instance of whatever zone they are in and that is the only way this is possible.
And even if this was possible, your hard mode boss would die in a few seconds when a bunch of other players are doing the same quest at the same time.Edited by DaveMoeDee on December 8, 2019 5:17AM10 -
Czinczar✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Do you need a book to be hard to understand to enjoy it? I'm not opposed to hard mode. I just find the generalized logic absurd.
The suggestion of the OP is not doable. The game can't change the stats of quest mobs based on what I select. They can only change my stats. I am sharing the world with other people. In fact, I can kill a mob without even picking up a quests that also involves killing that mob. And what about all the mobs I pass along the way. I also have 20 quests open at the same time. Most towns have at least 2 quests you could be doing at the same time. They could be a mix of hard and normal. How is that managed?
If we are going to suggest a design, in needs to be something possible in this game. There is zero chance they give every player their own instance of whatever zone they are in and that is the only way this is possible.
And even if this was possible, your hard mode boss would die in a few seconds when a bunch of other players are doing the same quest at the same time.
Wow, your analogy with a book is so bad. We are talking gameplay, challenges to overcome, you know, video games. It's like you're saying "do you need your opponent to be a good player to enjoy a chess game?". Of course the opponent needs to be a good player.
The problems you speak about could be solved. For example there could only be one hard mode quest active at a time, and enemies would do normal damage to players around that don't have the quest activated in hard mode, etc.. No one is asking to have a new instance for every player. And after all it's a mmo, if people want to band together to defeat some hard to kill boss, then let them do it. That's not the problem. But you have to admit that even in instances created for the player during a quest, where he is alone, enemies are too easy to defeat, there is no challenge at all.6 -
CiliPadi✭✭✭✭Oh? How about let's have a solo mode too because nobody wants to wait for that one person who wants to do the dungeon story quest.5 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭+1Immersive Quests Addon
Wish to Quest without Quest Way Markers? ''Talk to the Hooded Figure'' Turns into ''Talk to the Hooded Figure, who is feeding the chickens near the southeastern gate in the city of Daggerfall in Glenumbra.'' If you Wish To write bread crumbs clues for quest for other players to experience come join the team!
List of Immersion Addons0 -
Canned_Apples✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, it should stay the way it is. I light being able to light attack everything to death without dropping below 99% health.
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Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭+1 If the way to activate it is by letting me choose some nice taunting dialogue options that make the enemies enrage.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If it were easy to make it so in an open world setting, which is the environment most of our quests reside, Zos could provide us with difficulty settings then I would expect we would have it already. Since we do not have it seems Zos has decided it is not a good business decision to make it happen. After all, the main purpose of regular quests is the story.1 -
Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes please. I miss pre One Tamriel Cadwell's Gold difficulty.Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.4 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.
Why would it have to offer the same rewards as regular easy mode? If something is harder then the reward should reflect that. It's part of the incentive in the first place to make you want to do something the harder way. The other reason being the challenge. Option to do it, yes. Same rewards? Nah.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.
Why would it have to offer the same rewards as regular easy mode? If something is harder then the reward should reflect that. It's part of the incentive in the first place to make you want to do something the harder way. The other reason being the challenge. Option to do it, yes. Same rewards? Nah.
So the idea is not to have more of a challenge but more of a reward it seems. With the logic above it is not the challenge that is desired but the loot.11 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.
Why would it have to offer the same rewards as regular easy mode? If something is harder then the reward should reflect that. It's part of the incentive in the first place to make you want to do something the harder way. The other reason being the challenge. Option to do it, yes. Same rewards? Nah.
So the idea is not to have more of a challenge but more of a reward it seems. With the logic above it is not the challenge that is desired but the loot.
I said it's part of the incentive. One being the challenge and the other being rewards. Of course what matters most depends on the individual. It's not a binary way of thinking. People can choose to want to do something based on more than one reason, didn't you know?
Edited by Neoealth on December 9, 2019 7:38AM4 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭@Czinczar
How about you remove/don't use you CP point and only use the gear you found and get as reward on new char I would guest that it is not so easy then and oh yeah don't use exp buff or food buff that would be a fun time and hard also
I have a friend that just this game and honest she says it still hard when you don't have any buff or CP point to use for she got a nice surprise when she starts to get CP point on all her char it was easy mode.
I think problem is that all mobs in this game are at CP lvl 160 and we are at CP lvl 810 when we hit the cap that is like 650 in different between you and mobs which basically mean it will be easy mode for us all
If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity1 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭First they want it harder because “it’s not challenging enough”
Then they want greater rewards because “it’s more difficult”
Then they start deriding people who don’t do the ‘hard’ version, cos that’s how they roll
Questing needs to be at a level that everyone can accomplish. Fights, puzzles and challenges are supposed to be speed bumps not roadblocks to progress.
I enjoyed the Elsweyr storyline, but my main character rolled over the two main protagonists really easily. My newly created character in contrast had a harder time and a friend who I had introduced to the game really struggled.
There’s a lot wrong with Elsweyr. The v1 dragons were awful, the layout of weyshrines is bad, there seem to be fewer quests and less to do than in Summerset. None of these would have been improved by spending half the development creating an alternative “overland hard mode” that very few people would regularly use. And even then would complain about.12 -
Neoealth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭First they want it harder because “it’s not challenging enough”
Then they want greater rewards because “it’s more difficult”
Then they start deriding people who don’t do the ‘hard’ version, cos that’s how they roll
Questing needs to be at a level that everyone can accomplish. Fights, puzzles and challenges are supposed to be speed bumps not roadblocks to progress.
I enjoyed the Elsweyr storyline, but my main character rolled over the two main protagonists really easily. My newly created character in contrast had a harder time and a friend who I had introduced to the game really struggled.
There’s a lot wrong with Elsweyr. The v1 dragons were awful, the layout of weyshrines is bad, there seem to be fewer quests and less to do than in Summerset. None of these would have been improved by spending half the development creating an alternative “overland hard mode” that very few people would regularly use. And even then would complain about.
That's why OP suggested it be optional. Who is deriding anyone? And who is "they"?4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So long as its optional and offers no better rewards than doing the quest normally, got no problem with them adding a hard mode option.
Why would it have to offer the same rewards as regular easy mode? If something is harder then the reward should reflect that. It's part of the incentive in the first place to make you want to do something the harder way. The other reason being the challenge. Option to do it, yes. Same rewards? Nah.
So the idea is not to have more of a challenge but more of a reward it seems. With the logic above it is not the challenge that is desired but the loot.
I said it's part of the incentive. One being the challenge and the other being rewards. Of course what matters most depends on the individual. It's not a binary way of thinking. People can choose to want to do something based on more than more reason, didn't you know?
Ok, I would have thought the ability to have more of a challenge was incentive enough. After all, I raid because I enjoy the challenge of the team improving and getting better scores. It is not because of the gear. That is not the incentive by any means since we keep raiding well after we get the gear.
Not that it matters. As I said, it seems Zos sees one of two problems with this. One could be server load with any design they can come up with for delivering such a thing. The other is it could just be a business decision. After all, challenging overland questing does not seem to be a part of the modern MMORPG design. Probably something worth considering and attempting to address.6 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »In principle there's nothing wrong with that option, but I'd wager it would need to be a separate instance from everyone else due to the way ESO is structured. Could end up being a very empty experience.
Another option that had been suggested by someone was to introduce a "debuff" food/drink that you could use to essentially gimp your toon to make things harder.
Yeah, I think it would have to involve a debuff, because non-instanced content, obviously, can't be (re)tailored to one player.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Or, alternatively, you would have to have two modes of the game which you selected when logging on.
Then, if you selected hard mode, every quest you then did in that mode would be in hard mode, too.
Not sure what would happen if you logged off, mid hard mode quest, and then logged back on in easy (or normal) mode?
Maybe you could only complete each quest in the mode you accepted it in?0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This same issue is discussed it seems every other month or so. Some want it and some don’t.
For me I think the gear should remain the same. If you want harder content for greater reward that’s what DLC dungeons and trials with HM are for, the Helms, Motif’s drops, unlocked colors/skins and titles. Some trials even offer better gear in the form of perfected as well for the higher difficulty.
Vanilla overworld and questing needs to remain on the easier side because not everyone is at max level or use combos. Some are low levels or people with disability or older and can’t do the super duper awesome Tamerial shattering DPS others can. With the game being an MMO, ZOS would have to create different game instances to support this as of right now they are having trouble even supporting the same generic play for everyone now.
IF you are one of these people capable of greater DPS then you must limit yourself on an individual level for generally questing and overland content by not using CP and wearing white generic gear and weapons. No sets bonuses or gold weapons. Even just all white gear at a lower level.
I know this Method is frustrating because why play if you cannot be the best you can but unfortunately that is just not an option available to use. Nor does it appear that it can be done in ESO environment with everyone being instanced in the same world.
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redgreensunset✭✭✭✭✭
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No it shouldn't. OP is specifically asking for harder enemies in the story, so yeah that book analogy was spot on, story rewards shouldn't differ as you can onlt do stories (ie non daily quests) once.7 -
redgreensunset✭✭✭✭✭
✭That said, considering how most quests are overland with ordinary overland mobs that we all share I can't see how this would be even remotely able tp work technicaly. I guess they could make separate instance for overland hm, but what if you have more tham one quest active in a zone and on different difficulty levels?
I can't think of a way of doingthis that wpuld be a complete logistic nightmare.2 -
AgaTheGreat✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge. When everything dies so easily it cannot be interesting. I know this is not a new complaint but the devs really need to do something about that. And main quest enemies are even easier to defeat than normal quests enemies.
So let's have a hard mode for quests ? When the quest starts, you have a choice to start it in hard mode or normal mode. In hard mode, enemies should have more health and deal more damage and even have their skills rearranged to offer a greater challenge(let's say 4men dungeon life and damage). There could also be a hardcore mode where if you die just once after starting the quest, the quest resets and you have to start over from the beginning. And of course there could be many new achievements linked to that hard mode. Rewards could be rearranged too.
It's so sad to see all these quests and being forced to play "very easy" mode all the time. Make it a DLC if you want and I would buy it.
Overland and quests are not meant to be challenging. They're designed for the average player that comes here to discover sights, do some quests, kill some mobs and pick flowers.
If you're looking for challenge there's veteran maelstrom arena and veteran dungeons and trials.PS4 EU Aga_The_Grey - retired | PC EU AgaTheGreat4 -
Jack-0✭✭✭✭✭If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.
All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses don’t even finish their trash talking before they die!Edited by Jack-0 on December 8, 2019 10:25AM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If it’s so logistically difficult to do we could just up the difficulty for all! The naysayers here are actually insulting new players - do they not have the same capacity as the rest of us to learn and improve? This decade has seen a whole lot of games launched with full-on hand-holding and golden breadcrumb trails, but also the soulsborne games and their ilk, which nicely demonstrates my point that something being more difficult is not in fact niche or unappealing to a broad market.
All the newer eso (non dungeon/trial) content is completely unmemorable because you can just blast through it with your eyes shut. Quest bosses doesn’t even finish their trash talking before they die!
People can say what they wish and twist it so what people with opposing opinions are falsely accused of insulting others but the hard facts are ignored.
What major MMORPG's of today with an open world questing design have multiple difficulties with PvE? It seems that if Zos thought it was a good business idea to make overland questing actually challenging was a good business decision and bring them in more revenue they would actually do it. However, since they have done in the opposite direction since the day this game launched they seem to be saying very loudly that it is a very bad business idea.
Within weeks of this games launch Craglorn veteran zone was added. Players complained about the difficulty and that was dialed back.
Within a couple months of this games launch Zos chose to make the vet zones (Silver and Gold) more challenging. Players balked and that difficulty was turned back.
So what Zos sees, and seems to go along with based on their actions, is that the suggestion presented does not make good business sense. The reality is the overland questing content (non dungeon/trial) is more about the story line and Zos has done well with that. Granted, that may not be the cup of tea for everyone but it pretty much seems that is the way it will be. Take it or leave it but history in this game is not in your favor.
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Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Czinczar
How about you remove/don't use you CP point and only use the gear you found and get as reward on new char I would guest that it is not so easy then and oh yeah don't use exp buff or food buff that would be a fun time and hard also
I have a friend that just this game and honest she says it still hard when you don't have any buff or CP point to use for she got a nice surprise when she starts to get CP point on all her char it was easy mode.
I think problem is that all mobs in this game are at CP lvl 160 and we are at CP lvl 810 when we hit the cap that is like 650 in different between you and mobs which basically mean it will be easy mode for us all
I've tried a lot of variations of this and none have been satisfying. No CP, no gear, hell I've gone in fist fighting. The big issue I usually run into is sustain. A little bit of a struggle is okay, sure, but heavy attacking things to death just isn't enjoyable in anyway. The fights are still simple, just more tedious. And really with a challenge you don't wanna have to dumb down your playstyle -- you wanna be forced to play well and give it all you got.0 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
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you have a misconception about what is a quest. quest is a story and decisions which affect it's flow not a trial of your combat skills. from the other side if quest is badly written people skip dialogues and search for a fightI am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge.
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭oxygen_thief wrote: »
you have a misconception about what is a quest. quest is a story and decisions which affect it's flow not a trial of your combat skills. from the other side if quest is badly written people skip dialogues and search for a fightI am doing Elsweyr main quest and I am sorry but you can't have something interesting if there is no challenge.
There are no decisions that affect the flow in ESO quests though. You've sacrificed Sai? Nope, he is back alive and kicking.
And the story can be affected negatively by the lack of combat difficulty. When yet another "Greatest Threat to All of Tamriel™" falls over dead before they can finish their first line you just stop believing the story. Regardless of how well it's written, it just doesn't work anymore.7
This discussion has been closed.