healing is OP. I hope ZOS will delete such thing as "dedicated healer" from the game.
Should be only 3 roles: 1) Tanky DD, 2) Full DD, 3) Weakest DD in the group, who forced to slot 1 healing skill
healing is OP. I hope ZOS will delete such thing as "dedicated healer" from the game.
Should be only 3 roles: 1) Tanky DD, 2) Full DD, 3) Weakest DD in the group, who forced to slot 1 healing skill
I hope they delete dps instead. Everyone running around in an MMO game treating it like a shooter is dumb. They also whine a lot and always seem arrogant like their form of pvp is better, a bit funny when you think about someone missing the point of playing an MMO. How good can they really be?
The problem isn't so much healing in itself, nor dedicated healers. Rather, the problem is cross and off healing, specifically with magicka DPS.
With Scalebreaker, both DoT's and HoT's were buffed, with a few HoT's being reworked to have more obvious group morphs. These buffs balanced each other out, and, in some cases, tipped the scales away from healing, as DoT's could easily overwhelm HoT's.
With Dragonhold, they nerfed DoT's and removed some burst options, while leaving HoT's as they were, which has left healing super strong, in a meta where damage is rather low.
With healing being super strong, and a few HoT's having more obvious group morphs, the game has been pushed into a meta where DPS can just run the group morphs of these HoT's (namely Radiating Regeneration), and not only apply a super strong HoT on themselves, but on nearby allies, too. From a DPS. See the problem, here?
Dedicated healers aren't the problem, because they're not the cause of this. The tools of dedicated healers have been buffed, but these same tools can be used on DPS, with even higher tooltips due to the stronger offensive stats DPS builds tend to offer. Since there's so much more DPS than dedicated healers in a group, dedicated healers really aren't needed, unless nobody runs these HoT's.
The solution to this is to bring the overperforming group HoT morphs back in line, while also making sure the self morphs are actually functional (Rapid Regen applies to the lowest ally, not just to yourself, so by nerfing Radiating Regen, you're removing the only reliable morph magicka DPS have, if they're using this as a self heal).
Take some power out of individual heals, put that power back into using a variety of heals, hence putting power back into dedicated healers, since DPS can't afford to slot every heal. That way, DPS can still heal themselves, without providing a ton of cross and off healing for the group, which brings dedicated healers back into the fold, since they can actually do their jobs instead of being overshadowed by the dozen or so DPS running Radiating Regen on back bar.
The problem isn't so much healing in itself, nor dedicated healers. Rather, the problem is cross and off healing, specifically with magicka DPS.
With Scalebreaker, both DoT's and HoT's were buffed, with a few HoT's being reworked to have more obvious group morphs. These buffs balanced each other out, and, in some cases, tipped the scales away from healing, as DoT's could easily overwhelm HoT's.
With Dragonhold, they nerfed DoT's and removed some burst options, while leaving HoT's as they were, which has left healing super strong, in a meta where damage is rather low.
With healing being super strong, and a few HoT's having more obvious group morphs, the game has been pushed into a meta where DPS can just run the group morphs of these HoT's (namely Radiating Regeneration), and not only apply a super strong HoT on themselves, but on nearby allies, too. From a DPS. See the problem, here?
Dedicated healers aren't the problem, because they're not the cause of this. The tools of dedicated healers have been buffed, but these same tools can be used on DPS, with even higher tooltips due to the stronger offensive stats DPS builds tend to offer. Since there's so much more DPS than dedicated healers in a group, dedicated healers really aren't needed, unless nobody runs these HoT's.
The solution to this is to bring the overperforming group HoT morphs back in line, while also making sure the self morphs are actually functional (Rapid Regen applies to the lowest ally, not just to yourself, so by nerfing Radiating Regen, you're removing the only reliable morph magicka DPS have, if they're using this as a self heal).
Take some power out of individual heals, put that power back into using a variety of heals, hence putting power back into dedicated healers, since DPS can't afford to slot every heal. That way, DPS can still heal themselves, without providing a ton of cross and off healing for the group, which brings dedicated healers back into the fold, since they can actually do their jobs instead of being overshadowed by the dozen or so DPS running Radiating Regen on back bar.
I think that a much easier way to deal with the problem would be to introduce a separate healing power attribute, and let spell damage and magicka only affect said healing skills by a reduced margin.
That way dedicated healers would truly have their identity back, while mag DPS wouldn't be able to abuse the flawed universal system as much anymore.
It's also a flexible way that allows for finer tuning. You could nerf spell damage heal contribution anywhere from 10-90% until you find a sweet spot.
But hey that would be too simple I guess 😂
Anything that's sort of cross-viable should see some form of adjustment.
Most ideal solution would honestly be to introduce traditional attributes as we remember from morrowind and oblivion.
A DPS invested in strength and agility could never tank as well as a tank invested in endurance and willpower and vice versa.
But I doubt they'd ever do that also. Idk why we can't add just a little more to make things easier to balance.
The problem isn't so much healing in itself, nor dedicated healers. Rather, the problem is cross and off healing, specifically with magicka DPS.
With Scalebreaker, both DoT's and HoT's were buffed, with a few HoT's being reworked to have more obvious group morphs. These buffs balanced each other out, and, in some cases, tipped the scales away from healing, as DoT's could easily overwhelm HoT's.
With Dragonhold, they nerfed DoT's and removed some burst options, while leaving HoT's as they were, which has left healing super strong, in a meta where damage is rather low.
With healing being super strong, and a few HoT's having more obvious group morphs, the game has been pushed into a meta where DPS can just run the group morphs of these HoT's (namely Radiating Regeneration), and not only apply a super strong HoT on themselves, but on nearby allies, too. From a DPS. See the problem, here?
Dedicated healers aren't the problem, because they're not the cause of this. The tools of dedicated healers have been buffed, but these same tools can be used on DPS, with even higher tooltips due to the stronger offensive stats DPS builds tend to offer. Since there's so much more DPS than dedicated healers in a group, dedicated healers really aren't needed, unless nobody runs these HoT's.
The solution to this is to bring the overperforming group HoT morphs back in line, while also making sure the self morphs are actually functional (Rapid Regen applies to the lowest ally, not just to yourself, so by nerfing Radiating Regen, you're removing the only reliable morph magicka DPS have, if they're using this as a self heal).
Take some power out of individual heals, put that power back into using a variety of heals, hence putting power back into dedicated healers, since DPS can't afford to slot every heal. That way, DPS can still heal themselves, without providing a ton of cross and off healing for the group, which brings dedicated healers back into the fold, since they can actually do their jobs instead of being overshadowed by the dozen or so DPS running Radiating Regen on back bar.
I think that a much easier way to deal with the problem would be to introduce a separate healing power attribute, and let spell damage and magicka only affect said healing skills by a reduced margin.
That way dedicated healers would truly have their identity back, while mag DPS wouldn't be able to abuse the flawed universal system as much anymore.
It's also a flexible way that allows for finer tuning. You could nerf spell damage heal contribution anywhere from 10-90% until you find a sweet spot.
But hey that would be too simple I guess 😂
Anything that's sort of cross-viable should see some form of adjustment.
Most ideal solution would honestly be to introduce traditional attributes as we remember from morrowind and oblivion.
A DPS invested in strength and agility could never tank as well as a tank invested in endurance and willpower and vice versa.
But I doubt they'd ever do that also. Idk why we can't add just a little more to make things easier to balance.
That's an ideal approach, but I feel like it's too late for that. People are too used to DPS having good self-healing that can carry you through fights, so the pushback would be loud and swift.
Kinda why I suggested just keeping self heals the way they are (maybe pulling them down a little, for each individual self heal), taking some power out of individual group heals, put that power back into using a variety of group heals that can be stacked to flood healing as a dedicated healer.
DPS keep their self-healing, and dedicated healers get their role back. Rather than using new healing-specific stats, you're instead forcing players to trade some attacks for heals, hence replacing DPS tools with dedicated healer tools.
RavenSworn wrote: »Actually all they need to do is to separate spell power with healing power. They already made Armor to be both spell and physical resistance, why not separate these two then so as not to make dps char great healers as well and full healers to be relevant again in all content.
That's all they need to do really.
Whether you choose a class and mag vs. stam, part of what you are choosing are the particular strengths that go with your choice. Different classes and different resource users have different strengths.RavenSworn wrote: »Actually all they need to do is to separate spell power with healing power. They already made Armor to be both spell and physical resistance, why not separate these two then so as not to make dps char great healers as well and full healers to be relevant again in all content.
That's all they need to do really.
If your proposal were implemented, how would healers stripped of spell power quest and kill those who attack them? Blessed and Elemental Expert are already different CP stars and gear is available which enhances healing or damage only. Who is going to want to be a healer if they are rendered helpless without the aid of others?
Whether you choose a class and mag vs. stam, part of what you are choosing are the particular strengths that go with your choice. Different classes and different resource users have different strengths.RavenSworn wrote: »Actually all they need to do is to separate spell power with healing power. They already made Armor to be both spell and physical resistance, why not separate these two then so as not to make dps char great healers as well and full healers to be relevant again in all content.
That's all they need to do really.
If your proposal were implemented, how would healers stripped of spell power quest and kill those who attack them? Blessed and Elemental Expert are already different CP stars and gear is available which enhances healing or damage only. Who is going to want to be a healer if they are rendered helpless without the aid of others?
Healers shouldn't be able to kill people..that's the problem with this game not only can every class do everything to some extent there are some classes such as Templar, Sorc, and DK that just do it better than the remaining classes. I think healing should scale off of mag/stam while attack skills scale off of weapon/spell dmg. Imo that would be the easiest way to balance out healing in one patch. Blessed/Elemental Expert CP was nerfed long ago and 32pts only gets you 8% which is then halved in PvP so really only 4% which isn't really substantial enough, healing bonuses through also only give 4% which once again translates into 2% in PvP..still not significant. Tanks should tank, DPS should do dmg, and Healers should heal clear roles in PvP would make everything easier to balance. You know a game is backwards when the Healing Class deals more dmg than the dmg class in PvP.
Whether you choose a class and mag vs. stam, part of what you are choosing are the particular strengths that go with your choice. Different classes and different resource users have different strengths.RavenSworn wrote: »Actually all they need to do is to separate spell power with healing power. They already made Armor to be both spell and physical resistance, why not separate these two then so as not to make dps char great healers as well and full healers to be relevant again in all content.
That's all they need to do really.
If your proposal were implemented, how would healers stripped of spell power quest and kill those who attack them? Blessed and Elemental Expert are already different CP stars and gear is available which enhances healing or damage only. Who is going to want to be a healer if they are rendered helpless without the aid of others?
Healers shouldn't be able to kill people..that's the problem with this game not only can every class do everything to some extent there are some classes such as Templar, Sorc, and DK that just do it better than the remaining classes. I think healing should scale off of mag/stam while attack skills scale off of weapon/spell dmg. Imo that would be the easiest way to balance out healing in one patch. Blessed/Elemental Expert CP was nerfed long ago and 32pts only gets you 8% which is then halved in PvP so really only 4% which isn't really substantial enough, healing bonuses through also only give 4% which once again translates into 2% in PvP..still not significant. Tanks should tank, DPS should do dmg, and Healers should heal clear roles in PvP would make everything easier to balance. You know a game is backwards when the Healing Class deals more dmg than the dmg class in PvP.
There's no such thing as a "healing class" in eso. Just let go of the old mmo standards where you can only do one role. ESO isn't like that and is one of the big reasons the game is successful. If you really want to kill the game you start by limiting how people can play.
Healers doing quest? Theres so much gearsets in this game that allows a healer based player to deal respectable damage while questing... and lets be honest, questing in ESO is laughably easy.
If your proposal were implemented, how would healers stripped of spell power quest and kill those who attack them? Blessed and Elemental Expert are already different CP stars and gear is available which enhances healing or damage only. Who is going to want to be a healer if they are rendered helpless without the aid of others?
Whether you choose a class and mag vs. stam, part of what you are choosing are the particular strengths that go with your choice. Different classes and different resource users have different strengths.RavenSworn wrote: »Actually all they need to do is to separate spell power with healing power. They already made Armor to be both spell and physical resistance, why not separate these two then so as not to make dps char great healers as well and full healers to be relevant again in all content.
That's all they need to do really.
If your proposal were implemented, how would healers stripped of spell power quest and kill those who attack them? Blessed and Elemental Expert are already different CP stars and gear is available which enhances healing or damage only. Who is going to want to be a healer if they are rendered helpless without the aid of others?
Healers shouldn't be able to kill people..that's the problem with this game not only can every class do everything to some extent there are some classes such as Templar, Sorc, and DK that just do it better than the remaining classes. I think healing should scale off of mag/stam while attack skills scale off of weapon/spell dmg. Imo that would be the easiest way to balance out healing in one patch. Blessed/Elemental Expert CP was nerfed long ago and 32pts only gets you 8% which is then halved in PvP so really only 4% which isn't really substantial enough, healing bonuses through also only give 4% which once again translates into 2% in PvP..still not significant. Tanks should tank, DPS should do dmg, and Healers should heal clear roles in PvP would make everything easier to balance. You know a game is backwards when the Healing Class deals more dmg than the dmg class in PvP.
There's no such thing as a "healing class" in eso. Just let go of the old mmo standards where you can only do one role. ESO isn't like that and is one of the big reasons the game is successful. If you really want to kill the game you start by limiting how people can play.
phoenixkungfu wrote: »THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL OPTION TO COUNTER HEALING THAT IS VIABLE.
karthrag_inak wrote: »phoenixkungfu wrote: »THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL OPTION TO COUNTER HEALING THAT IS VIABLE.
lol. it's called -stabbies- or -zappies- depending on the use of the green bar or the blue bar.
seriously?
karthrag_inak wrote: »phoenixkungfu wrote: »THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL OPTION TO COUNTER HEALING THAT IS VIABLE.
lol. it's called -stabbies- or -zappies- depending on the use of the green bar or the blue bar.
seriously?
Agreed but healing is slightly overtuned atm
Let's be honest
Whether you choose a class and mag vs. stam, part of what you are choosing are the particular strengths that go with your choice. Different classes and different resource users have different strengths.RavenSworn wrote: »Actually all they need to do is to separate spell power with healing power. They already made Armor to be both spell and physical resistance, why not separate these two then so as not to make dps char great healers as well and full healers to be relevant again in all content.
That's all they need to do really.
If your proposal were implemented, how would healers stripped of spell power quest and kill those who attack them? Blessed and Elemental Expert are already different CP stars and gear is available which enhances healing or damage only. Who is going to want to be a healer if they are rendered helpless without the aid of others?
Healers shouldn't be able to kill people..that's the problem with this game not only can every class do everything to some extent there are some classes such as Templar, Sorc, and DK that just do it better than the remaining classes. I think healing should scale off of mag/stam while attack skills scale off of weapon/spell dmg. Imo that would be the easiest way to balance out healing in one patch. Blessed/Elemental Expert CP was nerfed long ago and 32pts only gets you 8% which is then halved in PvP so really only 4% which isn't really substantial enough, healing bonuses through also only give 4% which once again translates into 2% in PvP..still not significant. Tanks should tank, DPS should do dmg, and Healers should heal clear roles in PvP would make everything easier to balance. You know a game is backwards when the Healing Class deals more dmg than the dmg class in PvP.
Whether you choose a class and mag vs. stam, part of what you are choosing are the particular strengths that go with your choice. Different classes and different resource users have different strengths.RavenSworn wrote: »Actually all they need to do is to separate spell power with healing power. They already made Armor to be both spell and physical resistance, why not separate these two then so as not to make dps char great healers as well and full healers to be relevant again in all content.
That's all they need to do really.
If your proposal were implemented, how would healers stripped of spell power quest and kill those who attack them? Blessed and Elemental Expert are already different CP stars and gear is available which enhances healing or damage only. Who is going to want to be a healer if they are rendered helpless without the aid of others?
Healers shouldn't be able to kill people..that's the problem with this game not only can every class do everything to some extent there are some classes such as Templar, Sorc, and DK that just do it better than the remaining classes. I think healing should scale off of mag/stam while attack skills scale off of weapon/spell dmg. Imo that would be the easiest way to balance out healing in one patch. Blessed/Elemental Expert CP was nerfed long ago and 32pts only gets you 8% which is then halved in PvP so really only 4% which isn't really substantial enough, healing bonuses through also only give 4% which once again translates into 2% in PvP..still not significant. Tanks should tank, DPS should do dmg, and Healers should heal clear roles in PvP would make everything easier to balance. You know a game is backwards when the Healing Class deals more dmg than the dmg class in PvP.
There's no such thing as a "healing class" in eso. Just let go of the old mmo standards where you can only do one role. ESO isn't like that and is one of the big reasons the game is successful. If you really want to kill the game you start by limiting how people can play.
The old mmo standard was the standard for that reason, and while ESO sold us on the idea of "Play how you want to play" they've made several considerable attempts to funnel the player-base. The game is successful because the combat system is unlike any other game especially on console. If you are a dedicated healer you shouldn't be able to kill a Tank or DPS that knows what they're doing pure and simple, and until some type of baseline is achieved this game will never achieve any modicum of balance.