are DLC dungeons dead at this point?

buttaface · December 2019

TheFM wrote: »

So you want to be able to face roll everything without learning any mechanics? Whats the fun in that. I feel accomplished when I have the mechanics down for a difficult dungeon, making it a tank and spank for every boss would be very dull imo.

No straw man, not at all what I posted. Maybe address specific claims and points without slanting them? Have played several games with far harder PvE than ESO that were also fun for most, and that's fine when done right. If it were only -one- set of scripts/gotchas/side games, no problem. If all attacks from bosses were separated into block, dodge or interrupt, no problem. But they aren't. They vary from boss to boss, and then add in all the unique side games to get an unnecessary maze of lazy gotchas in place of actual difficulty. Admittedly in a low parkour game with no true aim there's not a whole lot they could do. People DID enjoy that from 2003-200x before burning out on it, but it's archaic, lazy design now.

There are 30ish? dungeons in the game, maybe more. I personally don't mind doing the gotcha-side game show SOME if I know the others in my guilds enjoy it, that's good enough. But they don't. I don't, they don't. They do it to get a monster helmet a skill point or an achievement, then avoid like the plague after. There is something wrong with that.

My main point I won't repeat in full again is that it doesn't have to be this way. There is a way to make everyone happy, but a shocking portion of the player base is being left out in the status quo. No one is trying to take away the content you enjoy, just make all the content available to more of the player base than it is realistically now.

karekiz · December 2019

My only critique is that <especially LoM> sometimes they design a mid dungeon boss fight <Not including final boss or HM in these> with a specific mechanic. While fun and unique then decide in the middle to just toss "crap" in there. Vault protector lazer is a neat and fun idea. Hiding behind the boss is fun and moving and positioning is enjoyable and pug friendly. Getting sniped from non - chainable adds that hit for high amounts and enrage if not impaired or killed WHILE doing the lazer mechanic isn't however fun.

I was originally against the nerfs to stuff like bloodroot, and for some like shalks don't favor. However getting rid of the two atro's on the mino didn't really reduce my enjoyment of the dungeon at all, and increased it for others. So it isn't unheard of that they would reduce or change mechanics.

Hard mode shouldn't be changed, since in the end HM should be what challenges experienced players, not a mid dungeon boss or non HM final encounter <though final encounter should of course be "harder" than previous bosses>.

Huyen · December 2019

Loves_guars wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers

WOW, holly... I suspect that in PC the number is higher but still, even if it's triple it blows mi mind. Specially considering that 2 out of 4 DLC per year are these dungeons. So basically half of the content is being made only for 1% of the players?

Vet dlc isnt that hard. The biggest issue is that players expect it to be steamrolled with pure dps, while the opposite is the case. Mechanics suddenly matter, but people wont bother to learn them. Like learning to drive. At the start you think you wont make it till you do it more often. Same goes for the dlc dungeons.

buttaface · December 2019

MattT1988 wrote: »

Those stats are laughably unreliable because it takes into account EVERYBODY who’s ever logged into the game, even the players who tried the game on the free weekends and ditch the game afterwards. The PS4 stats are the same. Players who get the game, play it for a week, decide they don’t like it and don’t log in again shouldn’t count towards the overall playerbase.

OK. Multiply the quoted "1%s" times 10 then. Content that only 10-20% of the playerbase does is content that needs attention in some way. There is no reason it can't be done in a way that satisfies everyone.

mikemacon · December 2019

ZOS is a company.

Companies exist for one purpose alone: To make money.

Companies will therefore focus on that which makes money.

ZOS has servers.

Those servers compile information. ALL the information.

That information is then accessible by ZOS, and especially by the business decision makers at ZOS.

If that collected information suggested that DLC dungeons weren't being engaged with and were therefore a waste of resources, especially given the server-side and client-side performance issues they are currently using those resources to address, it's a virtual guarantee that the DLC dungeons would be drastically altered.

That said, if you're PUGing DLC dungeons, that's your first problem. You certainly can (I do) but your experience will fluctuate wildly. DLC dungeons are designed and intended as higher-end content. Your best result will come from engaging them with premade groups where you can ensure the relative skill levels of your companions (and yourself) and progress throughly them. Most people think of “progression groups” in terms of Trials; but especially when the DLC first drop, you might find yourself needing to progress through them with a group of clan mates & friends.

buttaface · December 2019

Huyen wrote: »

Mechanics suddenly matter, but people wont bother to learn them. Like learning to drive.

You might have a point if getting a driver's license required learning how to drive 100 different cars, boats, planes, motorcycles, 18 wheelers and scooters... and ESO wasn't a casual, easy game on the front end derived from a solo RPG IP and not any kind of meaningful IRL skill.

buttaface · December 2019

mikemacon wrote: »

ZOS is a company.

Yeah, and a compound non sequitur is a fallacy.

Spend five minutes looking and head-scratching at various crown store pricing, and then do some looking into just how many true business and finance pros are employed by game publishers. They spend a vast amount of money on the graphics side, little on the business, accounting and marketing sides. I'm someone who can tell the difference and it is glaring in ZOS.

In their niche, and with the strength of the IP, they would have several hundred thousand playing at any given time if well-run on the business side. They don't.

I will make a wild speculation that whatever PE/VC is currently involved with ZOS is displeased, and we will likely see quite a revolution in 2020. Will gladly come back here and eat crow if wrong and anyone cares.

Asardes · December 2019

Most of the game can be light and heavy attacked trough, without any skills. The difference between overland and instanced content, and between the normal and veteran content is massive. This steep learning curve has been discussed to death in the forum over the last years.

mikemacon · December 2019

buttaface wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

ZOS is a company.

Yeah, and a compound non sequitur is a fallacy.

Spend five minutes looking and head-scratching at various crown store pricing, and then do some looking into just how many true business and finance pros are employed by game publishers. They spend a vast amount of money on the graphics side, little on the business, accounting and marketing sides. I'm someone who can tell the difference and it is glaring in ZOS.

In their niche, and with the strength of the IP, they would have several hundred thousand playing at any given time if well-run on the business side. They don't.

I will make a wild speculation that whatever PE/VC is currently involved with ZOS is displeased, and we may see quite a revolution in 2020. Will gladly come back here and eat crow if wrong and anyone cares.

A "non sequitur" is a statement that does not follow. (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Non_sequitur)

OP made the statement that "no one is playing" (the DLC dungeons).

I made a structured argument to the effect that indeed, the content is in fact being played, and explained why if that wasn't the case there would be drastic changes to the DLC dungeons...and there aren't.

Ironically, your response was itself fallacious (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_by_assertion).

YMMV.

spartaxoxo · December 2019

MattT1988 wrote: »

Getting really tired of people pulling this “only 1% of the playerbase run them” figure out of their arses. Got any hard data to back those numbers up?

I love these dungeons and I know a stack of people who agree. If you don’t like them, don’t do them, but leave them alone for those of us who really enjoy them.

On the PSN, only .5% of the playerbase has a complete trophy for vet Shadows of the Hist, for example. Even less than will have the skin from either dungeon.

Looking at the trophies

Shadows of Hist
2.6% clear rate for normal mazz, 2.5% for normal COS
0.5% clear rate for the vets

Horns of the Reach
1.8% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for vets

Scalecaller peak
1.7% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for the vets

Wolfhunter

1.1% clear for normal MOS, .9% clear for normal MHK
0.2% clear for the vets

Wrathstone
0.6% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

Scalebreaker
0.4% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

If PC is anything like console in terms of completion rates, then 1% is actually a generous figure for the majority of the dungeons.

The reason is pretty obvious, they offer very little room for recovery in fights which turns off all but the most hardcore players.

AlnilamE · December 2019

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

Normal scalebreaker is 0,4% and vet is 0,1%
Normal Wrathstone is 0,6% and vet is 0,1%
Normal MoS is 1,1% and normal MHK is 0,9 and completing both on vet is 0,2%
Normal Dragon bones is 1,7% while vet is 0,3%
Normal Shadows of the hist is 2,6% and vet is 0,5%
Normal Horns of the reach is 1,8% and vet is 0,3%

Those are the percentages on the dlc dungeon achievements from ps4.

So according to this not even 0,5% do both on vet 👍 and not even 3% do the normal ones.

This again? If you are going to throw around achievement numbers which count every account ever created including the ones during free weekends and players who left the game before some of the dungeons were even released why don't you also include the percentage of players who got "Level 50" achievement so we have at least some point of reference?

12% reached lvl50, I'm just posting achievements since the earlier guy asked for the ps4 ones. Don't be so salty, eat some candy or something. Seems like your blood sugar is a bit low.

So 5% of people eligible for Wrathstone (level 45+) have completed it in normal, and 3.3% have completed Scalebraker.

Though it's hard to say how many of those "Level 50 Hero" accounts were still playing when the content came out.

The thing with the achievements from the consoles, as others have pointed out, is that they encompass everyone who ever logged in during a free weekend.

So you need to balance the "Vet HM completion %" achievements against another achievement that indicates how many people spent more than a weekend playing the game. "Level 50 Hero" is a base, but you really should look at the CP achievements, since you can't queue for vet DLC dungeons if you don't have 300CP.

As for the OP, I'm a bit busy right now, so I don't have a lot of time to run dungeons, but I fully intend to farm the motifs once the holidays start.

Ohtimbar · December 2019

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Getting really tired of people pulling this “only 1% of the playerbase run them” figure out of their arses. Got any hard data to back those numbers up?

I love these dungeons and I know a stack of people who agree. If you don’t like them, don’t do them, but leave them alone for those of us who really enjoy them.

On the PSN, only .5% of the playerbase has a complete trophy for vet Shadows of the Hist, for example. Even less than will have the skin from either dungeon.

Looking at the trophies

Shadows of Hist
2.6% clear rate for normal mazz, 2.5% for normal COS
0.5% clear rate for the vets

Horns of the Reach
1.8% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for vets

Scalecaller peak
1.7% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for the vets

Wolfhunter

1.1% clear for normal MOS, .9% clear for normal MHK
0.2% clear for the vets

Wrathstone
0.6% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

Scalebreaker
0.4% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

If PC is anything like console in terms of completion rates, then 1% is actually a generous figure for the majority of the dungeons.

The reason is pretty obvious, they offer very little room for recovery in fights which turns off all but the most hardcore players.

Those figures seem realistic to me, but even if they were five times higher it would be a woefully low participation rate. A rational person would reevaluate the content (why isn't anyone paying/playing?), but if they want to waste their own time and money that's their right.

spartaxoxo · December 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Getting really tired of people pulling this “only 1% of the playerbase run them” figure out of their arses. Got any hard data to back those numbers up?

I love these dungeons and I know a stack of people who agree. If you don’t like them, don’t do them, but leave them alone for those of us who really enjoy them.

On the PSN, only .5% of the playerbase has a complete trophy for vet Shadows of the Hist, for example. Even less than will have the skin from either dungeon.

Looking at the trophies

Shadows of Hist
2.6% clear rate for normal mazz, 2.5% for normal COS
0.5% clear rate for the vets

Horns of the Reach
1.8% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for vets

Scalecaller peak
1.7% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for the vets

Wolfhunter

1.1% clear for normal MOS, .9% clear for normal MHK
0.2% clear for the vets

Wrathstone
0.6% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

Scalebreaker
0.4% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

If PC is anything like console in terms of completion rates, then 1% is actually a generous figure for the majority of the dungeons.

The reason is pretty obvious, they offer very little room for recovery in fights which turns off all but the most hardcore players.

Those figures seem realistic to me, but even if they were five times higher it would be a woefully low participation rate. A rational person would reevaluate the content (why isn't anyone paying/playing?), but if they want to waste their own time and money that's their right.

Yeah. I mean this content is meant to be run daily. It should be more realistic to complete.

Rowjoh · December 2019

can't stand most of the dlc dungeons.

Overly difficult, tedious and time-consuming.... unless one is able to join a 'specialist' trial guild.

cant stand trial guilds. Overly preachy, snooty and elitist.

There you have it.

BejaProphet · December 2019

One problem with this thread is that while numerous people are saying, “Yes we do love vet DLC,” that is de facto being dismissed from the evidence.

El_Borracho · December 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Getting really tired of people pulling this “only 1% of the playerbase run them” figure out of their arses. Got any hard data to back those numbers up?

I love these dungeons and I know a stack of people who agree. If you don’t like them, don’t do them, but leave them alone for those of us who really enjoy them.

On the PSN, only .5% of the playerbase has a complete trophy for vet Shadows of the Hist, for example. Even less than will have the skin from either dungeon.

Looking at the trophies

Shadows of Hist
2.6% clear rate for normal mazz, 2.5% for normal COS
0.5% clear rate for the vets

Horns of the Reach
1.8% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for vets

Scalecaller peak
1.7% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for the vets

Wolfhunter

1.1% clear for normal MOS, .9% clear for normal MHK
0.2% clear for the vets

Wrathstone
0.6% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

Scalebreaker
0.4% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

If PC is anything like console in terms of completion rates, then 1% is actually a generous figure for the majority of the dungeons.

The reason is pretty obvious, they offer very little room for recovery in fights which turns off all but the most hardcore players.

Those figures seem realistic to me, but even if they were five times higher it would be a woefully low participation rate. A rational person would reevaluate the content (why isn't anyone paying/playing?), but if they want to waste their own time and money that's their right.

If you spend any time on these boards, you see the following 2 threads all the time:

1) PVE content is too easy. Give us veteran overland content. Dungeons are a joke, I can solo everything.

2) DLC dungeons are too hard

I tend to agree some of the DLC dungeons are ridiculously hard and unnecessarily long, especially Malatar (why, WHY?!?!). But they have given what many demand. While I don't find vet MHK particularly enjoyable, it can be done, and in a weird way its a nice break from running something like BC2.

The bigger problem is that you need to be in a guild and have guild members available to run them when you want to run them. They are not pug-able which makes them less accessible

idk · December 2019

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers
Normal mazzatun 1.54% of gamers
Normal Scalecaller peak .96% of gamers
Normal Fang Lair 1.00% of gamers

Maybe someone on PlayStation can post some numbers? I think it tracks things the same way...

OP pretty close with their 1% statement.

If those numbers are of all players on that console who bought the game then the numbers are pretty much meaningless.

Of the 10+ million copies of the game that have been sold most do not play the game any longer and that’s normal for a game of this age.

Not to mention some players just don’t want to do dungeons. Some just want to PvP, others just putz around the game. There has to be meaning of what the numbers say for them to have value in a conversation.

Loves_guars · December 2019

Huyen wrote: »

Loves_guars wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers

WOW, holly... I suspect that in PC the number is higher but still, even if it's triple it blows mi mind. Specially considering that 2 out of 4 DLC per year are these dungeons. So basically half of the content is being made only for 1% of the players?

Vet dlc isnt that hard. The biggest issue is that players expect it to be steamrolled with pure dps, while the opposite is the case. Mechanics suddenly matter, but people wont bother to learn them. Like learning to drive. At the start you think you wont make it till you do it more often. Same goes for the dlc dungeons.

That really isn't the case with my group. We all love mechanics, we hate the idea of doing a dungeon without them, just outdpsing it. Still, my group is very casual now, and can't hit big numbers (I think 25k-30kdps per player). I'm the one that plays most but I'm the tank. Last time, we bought the last DLC, and tried a vet dungeon, trying to follow all the mechanics we found, we tried a lot of times. But we reached a boss* that instant killed my DPS friends. It was impossible. We tried everything I swear, it's was just so out of our level. Then we ran it normal and everything desintegrated in 0.4 secs, no mechanics were present and we got bored to death.

I don't want easy, an intermediate difficulty would be awesome to play with my more casual friends (more towards veteran end).

(*It was Dro’Zakar – Moongrave Fane)

Acrolas · December 2019

buttaface wrote: »

I will make a wild speculation that whatever PE/VC is currently involved with ZOS is displeased, and we will likely see quite a revolution in 2020. Will gladly come back here and eat crow if wrong and anyone cares.

ZeniMax Media Inc handles the returns on investment, not Bethesda, ZOS, or any other branch of the parent company.

Venture capitalists don't harass or single out parts of a company. That is the type of action that would hurt equity, not help it.

MattT1988 · December 2019

Loves_guars wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers

WOW, holly... I suspect that in PC the number is higher but still, even if it's triple it blows mi mind. Specially considering that 2 out of 4 DLC per year are these dungeons. So basically half of the content is being made only for 1% of the players?

spartaxoxo wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Getting really tired of people pulling this “only 1% of the playerbase run them” figure out of their arses. Got any hard data to back those numbers up?

I love these dungeons and I know a stack of people who agree. If you don’t like them, don’t do them, but leave them alone for those of us who really enjoy them.

On the PSN, only .5% of the playerbase has a complete trophy for vet Shadows of the Hist, for example. Even less than will have the skin from either dungeon.

Looking at the trophies

Shadows of Hist
2.6% clear rate for normal mazz, 2.5% for normal COS
0.5% clear rate for the vets

Horns of the Reach
1.8% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for vets

Scalecaller peak
1.7% clear rate for the normals
0.3% clear rate for the vets

Wolfhunter

1.1% clear for normal MOS, .9% clear for normal MHK
0.2% clear for the vets

Wrathstone
0.6% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

Scalebreaker
0.4% clear for the normal
0.1% clear for the vets

If PC is anything like console in terms of completion rates, then 1% is actually a generous figure for the majority of the dungeons.

The reason is pretty obvious, they offer very little room for recovery in fights which turns off all but the most hardcore players.

Don’t read too much into those stats. As mentioned earlier they are very misleading as they include everybody who’s ever logged into the game, including people who tried the game on free weekends and people who tried the game for a week, didn’t like it and didn’t log in again. People who have an agenda against these DLC dungeons conveniently forget this or they straight up lie and mislead people.

People need to stop dropping those stats and passing them off as an accurate view of the playerbase because it simply isn’t. If you truly base your argument that those stats then your either ignorant or simply ignoring the true nature of those stats to further your agenda.

idk · December 2019

Huyen wrote: »

Loves_guars wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers

WOW, holly... I suspect that in PC the number is higher but still, even if it's triple it blows mi mind. Specially considering that 2 out of 4 DLC per year are these dungeons. So basically half of the content is being made only for 1% of the players?

Vet dlc isnt that hard. The biggest issue is that players expect it to be steamrolled with pure dps, while the opposite is the case. Mechanics suddenly matter, but people wont bother to learn them. Like learning to drive. At the start you think you wont make it till you do it more often. Same goes for the dlc dungeons.

I agree but it is also the same players that complain about mechanics because they do not take the time to figure them out that would also complain about enrage timers on bosses.

Skilled players prefer mechanics vs boring stack and burn fights. In a successful MMORPG fights become more mechanic driven as the game matures. For those that are not up for the challenge there is the normal version of dungeons but even there mechanics should still provide some solid feedback the player did not do something they should have.

Asardes · December 2019

idk wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

Loves_guars wrote: »

shimm wrote: »

Some actual stats for the Xbox via the achievement system (not the in-game achievements that tell you nothing)...

Achievement for finishing vet mazzatun was unlocked by .32% of gamers

WOW, holly... I suspect that in PC the number is higher but still, even if it's triple it blows mi mind. Specially considering that 2 out of 4 DLC per year are these dungeons. So basically half of the content is being made only for 1% of the players?

Vet dlc isnt that hard. The biggest issue is that players expect it to be steamrolled with pure dps, while the opposite is the case. Mechanics suddenly matter, but people wont bother to learn them. Like learning to drive. At the start you think you wont make it till you do it more often. Same goes for the dlc dungeons.

I agree but it is also the same players that complain about mechanics because they do not take the time to figure them out that would also complain about enrage timers on bosses.

Skilled players prefer mechanics vs boring stack and burn fights. In a successful MMORPG fights become more mechanic driven as the game matures. For those that are not up for the challenge there is the normal version of dungeons but even there mechanics should still provide some solid feedback the player did not do something they should have.

The problem with some of the mechanics in those dungeons is that sometimes are badly telegraphed, illogical or downright broken and buggy.

ayu_fever · December 2019

as a healer main, and with all the one shot mechanics in dlc dungeons....
i feel unwelcome.

i cant heal a one shot from a failed mechanic, so most people just slot self heals and go with a tank and 3 dps.

if player dps and sustain was nerfed HARD, like REALLY HARD then heals, buffs and sustain tools like shards and orbs would make healers essential in ALL veteran content.
yes, as a healer i would love this change.

and along with lower player dps (lets just say 30k is the max in an ideal rotation) then at least mechanics have to be leaned and taught in normal mode to elevate players for veteran in dungeons and trials.

idk · December 2019

ayu_fever wrote: »

as a healer main, and with all the one shot mechanics in dlc dungeons....
i feel unwelcome.

i cant heal a one shot from a failed mechanic, so most people just slot self heals and go with a tank and 3 dps.

if player dps and sustain was nerfed HARD, like REALLY HARD then heals, buffs and sustain tools like shards and orbs would make healers essential in ALL veteran content.
yes, as a healer i would love this change.

and along with lower player dps (lets just say 30k is the max in an ideal rotation) then at least mechanics have to be leaned and taught in normal mode to elevate players for veteran in dungeons and trials.

It does not appear that this has anything to do with the subject here. Also, Zos heavily nerfed sustain in the Morrowind patch and that really changed nothing.. Also, reducing the damage dps do would change nothing but make the fights longer.

Since early in this game solid healer have been able to run some dps with their healing build. In vDSA it has been common that leaderboard scores use a healer that dishes out solid DPS. I used to heal it with BoL and Repentance as my only heals. Did not even use an rStaff. One of the things I liked about ESO from the start is a healer did not need to be this extremely weak character that required a full respec in order to do some DPS. It allows us to provide

In other MMORPGs I have played it is comment for healer to do some DPS in raids when a group is working on the most challenging content. I may be as simple as keeping a DoT on the boss. So it is not new for a healer to do some DPS.

Aznarb · December 2019

Since early in this game solid healer have been able to run some dps with their healing build. In vDSA it has been common that leaderboard scores use a healer that dishes out solid DPS. I used to heal it with BoL and Repentance as my only heals. Did not even use an rStaff

So you was nothing more than a DPS and not a healer at all.
We do vDSA and most of the content with 3 DD and 1 or 2 slot on heal who can heal ally and we're done.
Tank is enough to send resources.

Their is a difference at doing "some" dmg to helps and just keep 1 heal to go full DPS.
That the reason why as aim for Tank, tank is the only true support on this game, healer are just here for trial, horrible design.

frozzzen101 · December 2019

Asardes wrote: »

The problem with some of the mechanics in those dungeons is that sometimes are badly telegraphed, illogical or downright broken and buggy.

Thing is, I legit don't see anything badly telegraphed in DLC dungeons except perhaps Velidreth's Shadow Sense, and to extent Zaan's speedy cones. As for broken and buggy, entire game is such, and you can't level that accusation on DLC dungeon mechanics alone. Quite honestly, there are much worse offenders in non DLC dungeons like BC 1 or Spindle 1, where you get extremely poorly telegraphed oneshot to anyone who's under cp 300. They are much worse offenders than anything in DLC dungeons, especially considering these should be accessible to new players. Praxin in Wayrest 2? His resource drain is still to this day total enigma and Selistrix taunt shed is absolutely horrible mechanic.
EDIT: Feel free to point me if I missed something in DLC dungeons, I'm legit curious.

Contaminate · December 2019

ZOS knows the motifs were erroneously (or intentionally, gotta sell those motifs in the cash shop somehow) put on a 24hr account-wide cooldown when released, but they won’t fix it until Monday, after the event is over. They also haven’t double dropped at all despite the event advertising double drops from this year’s dungeons.

To sum it up: I’m of the opinion these were intentionally put on a cooldown, and are not going to be fixed until after the event, in order to artificially bottleneck the in-game availability

idk · December 2019

Aznarb wrote: »

Since early in this game solid healer have been able to run some dps with their healing build. In vDSA it has been common that leaderboard scores use a healer that dishes out solid DPS. I used to heal it with BoL and Repentance as my only heals. Did not even use an rStaff

So you was nothing more than a DPS and not a healer at all.
We do vDSA and most of the content with 3 DD and 1 or 2 slot on heal who can heal ally and we're done.
Tank is enough to send resources.

Their is a difference at doing "some" dmg to helps and just keep 1 heal to go full DPS.
That the reason why as aim for Tank, tank is the only true support on this game, healer are just here for trial, horrible design.

We called it 50/50. And early strat the healer also tanked adds while the tank brought the boss away to take fire separately. Ofc, strats changed over time.

I would not suggest it is a horrible design. If you really thought that you would be playing WoW or FF as your main game, or something else. So lets set that straight and so it is clear that comment is merely made for drama sake.

I so like how you removed parts of my comment that were not convenient to your reply.

spartaxoxo · December 2019

MattT1988 wrote: »

-snip-

While it's true that those stats also have to take into account that not all of the playerbase is even around anymore and other such factors, you also can't ignore that the completion ratio for say killing a dragon is much, much higher than for completing vet scale caller.

This indicates that it's a pretty small percentage of the playerbase that does this content.

And then there are the countless threads of people saying they aren't doing the content, and the threads from eso subscribers that saying they feel punished for having eso because it means they have vet dlc in their vet dungeon rotation. The market indicators are also there, with vet dlc dungeon books being VERY expensive and rare until the anniversary event roles around. A lot of people won't even bother trying to get those motifs until that one time of year.

It's just not worth it to so many people. A lot of people will buy the dlc just to get the monster helm and then never step foot in there again. I know of plenty of runs where people will just transmute the first type of helm they want rather than run it again, because it's far less frustrating.

It's great if you're an amped up player in an endgame trials guild full of people that want to run this stuff on vet (let alone HM) on the regular, but that is definitely a very tiny portion of the playerbase. Most won't complete it even once and of the ones that do, they stop running it very quickly.

Nyladreas · December 2019

Wing wrote: »

I don't do vet DLC dungeons, the TLDR is that I simply find them too hard and not fun, and its getting to the point that I don't even bother to run them once on normal because why even?

(the longer is I kind of already did my time of meta chasing, small man, time trial, leaderboard, sweat fest in another MMO and im just not about that life anymore, on top of it not being fun in ESO)

that said I do watch guild stores and what not for motifs if I want them, and you know what?

nothing. . .

been checking major trade hubs daily and have not seen a single page of the new motifs, maybe I might have seen one but I just cannot remember at this point, and im sure it was probably priced in the 100's of thousands due to scarcity because. . .

nobody is doing this content.

cry all you want about get gud, or whatever, but it does suck to see so much development time and effort, encounter design, new rewards in cosmetics, motifs, skins, armor sets, monster sets, etc. all for nothing.

going to a dungeon that only about 1% will play for a few runs, until they get the monster set if its relevant, and then never touch again. (the % amount is actually less then that, completions of older DLC dungeons were only around 2-3% of the player base and that number has only declined)

people go out of their way to avoid them, advertising in zone "non DLC dungeons" only running group finder on sub 50 characters as DLC dungeons to not enter the queue until you hit 50, simply dropping group if they get a DLC dungeon.

yup, people are going out of their way to avoid content, I would not even buy them if not for just being included in ESO plus, and I know MANY are in the same boat.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert

Well pugging DLC dungeons usually goes like this: Random low CP appears. Everyone goes "ok". 1st wipe on 1st boss *tank or healer leaves* -> *everyone else leaves*

That's myy experience anyways.

Some specific dungeons, if people happen to pop in them form Random Queue, just get skipped right away. We had been doing frostvault a couple days ago and I can't tell you how many healers and tanks dropped in just to instantly leave. They didnt even spend 10 seconds in there, the loadscreen was enough for them.

I'm honestly not surprised as I would be a year ago. The game isn't what it used to be and DLC dungeons are just a huge inconvenience nowadays.

The only people running them are people in dedicated PvE guilds that hunt achievements and such things.