Aurielle wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Uh...end of life? What evidence have you seen that lead you to believe that? Did their sub numbers drop drastically over the past few months? If so, can you link your source? And have they lost money at all? If so, can you also link that source?

We only have anecdotal proof; ESO’s various social media platforms are full of disgruntled former or soon-to-be former players. I’ve seen long-running PVE and PVP guilds on PS4 completely wither away over the past year. Many friends on console — some of whom were around for launch — have given up, cancelled their subs, uninstalled, and moved on. Attrition is normal for MMOs, but anecdotally, it has ramped up significantly on PS4 NA over the past few months. Games cannot perform as poorly as ESO is currently performing and still manage to retain enough new players to make up for those who are leaving. If I bought an older game on sale and it crashed multiple times every hour, I’d chalk it up as a bad mistake on my part and uninstall rather than invest any time into it.

People who are persisting with the game despite their considerable frustration with it are still too invested in the game to stop playing — everyone has a breaking point, though, and ZOS is seriously testing those breaking points lately.

Also, we will likely only ever have anecdotal evidence, as ZOS is a privately held company that does not publicly disclose up-to-date subscription numbers or their profits. Asking for evidence that is literally not available is not a reasonable request. We can only give our best guesses based on our experiences.

Goregrinder wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Uh...end of life? What evidence have you seen that lead you to believe that? Did their sub numbers drop drastically over the past few months? If so, can you link your source? And have they lost money at all? If so, can you also link that source?

We only have anecdotal proof; ESO’s various social media platforms are full of disgruntled former or soon-to-be former players. I’ve seen long-running PVE and PVP guilds on PS4 completely wither away over the past year. Many friends on console — some of whom were around for launch — have given up, cancelled their subs, uninstalled, and moved on. Attrition is normal for MMOs, but anecdotally, it has ramped up significantly on PS4 NA over the past few months. Games cannot perform as poorly as ESO is currently performing and still manage to retain enough new players to make up for those who are leaving. If I bought an older game on sale and it crashed multiple times every hour, I’d chalk it up as a bad mistake on my part and uninstall rather than invest any time into it.

People who are persisting with the game despite their considerable frustration with it are still too invested in the game to stop playing — everyone has a breaking point, though, and ZOS is seriously testing those breaking points lately.

Yeah I don't really follow anecdotal proof, I wait for empirical evidence to be presented. Otherwise it is just like people who said they were going to move out of the US if Trump got elected president, but stayed anyways. If people are quitting in droves, I want to see the paperwork that shows those numbers, similar to when people quit SWG when the first CU launched, and then even more people quit when the NGE dropped. There were actual active subscription numbers that you could compare against the previous numbers and see a drastic decline in population over a short period of time.

If someone can show me that, then I might believe that the sky is falling. Otherwise, it's business as usual.

So, as I pointed out in my previous reply, we will likely never get those numbers. Ever. Because ZOS is a privately owned and operated company, not a publicly traded one, and so has no obligation or incentive to provide us with those numbers, especially if they don't paint a rosy picture. With that in mind, what would it take for you to think otherwise? Presumably your own anecdotal experiences? Because anecdotal evidence is pretty much we're ever going to have to go on.

Ragnork wrote: »

A focus on class and race restructuring, taking away what makes the game fun for most players to focus on balance for PvP.
This is undermining the enjoyment for the PvE community.
(coming soon nerf the templar)

And so it begins
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/503314/nerf-the-templars

Sad but predictable.
PvP needs to be fun, but every change made in PvP also has a negative impact in PvE.

The sad thing is you get to the point where you think why do I even bother. That is end of the line.

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Yes it’s unfortunate that the dungeon-finder doesn’t work as it should and BG is experiencing some problems, but guess what, [snip] happens. Go outside. Unplug for the game a little. Trust me, it’ll be here if you decide to come back.

Imagine if people who played Battlefield, COD, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, etc. couldn’t get into matches at all because the matchmaking system was completely broken. Imagine if, on a good day when the matchmaking systems WERE working, it took upwards of half an hour of sitting in a queue before you were matched up with other players in those games. Imagine if those games then crashed over and over again when players finally made it into a match, often right in the middle of you fighting another person. IT WOULDN’T HAPPEN, because those games would go out of business so quickly if their associated developers coded THAT badly.

Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing. Why should we just shrug and say “[snip] happens” when we wouldn’t tolerate it in any other triple A video game that relies on matchmaking systems?

Since you seem to be focused mostly on BR types of games and are speaking to their queue system, most of them are pretty much one trick ponies to begin with. So yea, if their queue system did not work the game would fold because that is all the game really is.

Granted, Zos needs to get the GF working and hopefully Rich's comments today are a sign they are getting the GF together. However, we managed to do dungeons just fine before there was a semi-properly working GF and the BG part really does little to support this game.

Regardless, comparing apples to oranges does not work out well. Comparing what is essentially a one trick pony to a much more diverse game does not make sense.

You didn’t read my post in its entirity, @idk . I’ll quote the relevant part for you:

“Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing.”

You need to understand that some people ONLY play this game for BGs — a game mode that 100% relies on the match-making queue. For a while, I only played BGs, because performance in Cyrodiil is generally intolerable, and because PVE eventually bored me to tears. The only time I ever ran dungeons after committing 100% to PVP was when I needed to grind gear, or when I needed to grind Undaunted. When you only PVP, most of your in-game friends tend to only PVP. Finding groups outside of the dungeon finder isn’t always easy.

The game itself may be diverse, but not everyone plays all the content on offer. If I wanted to, I could pick flowers all day on PS4 NA with few problems. That’s not what I want, though. I want to play BGs, and I want to play in Cyrodiil without the game crashing multiple times per hour. I can’t do either of those things, so I’m playing other PVP games that actually deliver stable content to their paying customers.

Edit: PS, only two of the five games I mentioned are exclusive BR games. The other games all have multiple forms of PVP that all work well. Some also have single player campaigns.

[edited to remove quote]

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

According to steam charts, player count hit it's all-time peak in May of this year.

Steamcharts completely misrepresents the actual playerbase as most ppl play the standalone version rather than using Steam and for the fact that there are f2p events every other month these days which inflate the concurrent amount of people playing to seem higher than they actually are.

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Yes it’s unfortunate that the dungeon-finder doesn’t work as it should and BG is experiencing some problems, but guess what, [snip] happens. Go outside. Unplug for the game a little. Trust me, it’ll be here if you decide to come back.

Imagine if people who played Battlefield, COD, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, etc. couldn’t get into matches at all because the matchmaking system was completely broken. Imagine if, on a good day when the matchmaking systems WERE working, it took upwards of half an hour of sitting in a queue before you were matched up with other players in those games. Imagine if those games then crashed over and over again when players finally made it into a match, often right in the middle of you fighting another person. IT WOULDN’T HAPPEN, because those games would go out of business so quickly if their associated developers coded THAT badly.

Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing. Why should we just shrug and say “[snip] happens” when we wouldn’t tolerate it in any other triple A video game that relies on matchmaking systems?

Since you seem to be focused mostly on BR types of games and are speaking to their queue system, most of them are pretty much one trick ponies to begin with. So yea, if their queue system did not work the game would fold because that is all the game really is.

Granted, Zos needs to get the GF working and hopefully Rich's comments today are a sign they are getting the GF together. However, we managed to do dungeons just fine before there was a semi-properly working GF and the BG part really does little to support this game.

Regardless, comparing apples to oranges does not work out well. Comparing what is essentially a one trick pony to a much more diverse game does not make sense.

You didn’t read my post in its entirity, . I’ll quote the relevant part for you:

“Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing.”

You need to understand that some people ONLY play this game for BGs — a game mode that 100% relies on the match-making queue. For a while, I only played BGs, because performance in Cyrodiil is generally intolerable, and because PVE eventually bored me to tears. The only time I ever ran dungeons after committing 100% to PVP was when I needed to grind gear, or when I needed to grind Undaunted. When you only PVP, most of your in-game friends tend to only PVP. Finding groups outside of the dungeon finder isn’t always easy.

The game itself may be diverse, but not everyone plays all the content on offer. If I wanted to, I could pick flowers all day on PS4 NA with few problems. That’s not what I want, though. I want to play BGs, and I want to play in Cyrodiil without the game crashing multiple times per hour. I can’t do either of those things, so I’m playing other PVP games that actually deliver stable content to their paying customers.

Edit: PS, only two of the five games I mentioned are exclusive BR games. The other games all have multiple forms of PVP that all work well. Some also have single player campaigns.

I read it all. You seem to misunderstand what I said so I will attempt to state it more clearly.

1. you compared games that are pretty much one trick ponies to a multidimensional game.
2. BGs are not a money maker for Zos. People do not have to pay more than the sale price of the base game to participate. Same for players that only want to play in Cyrodiil. Which makes your analogy of what is essentially BR games even more out of place.

Zos does need to get the issues corrected, get the server working properly. However, it has more to do with the revenue generating parts of the game which is where the core, the majority of players spend their time. BGs is just for diversity of what we can do, not a core part of this game by any means.

I was in the middle of writing a reply, and the thread got closed for review... go figure. Anyway, again:

I don’t know why you’re so focused on “one trick pony” BR games. Only two of the games I listed AS AN EXAMPLE of other PVP games that run smoothly because their players wouldn’t accept anything less are exclusive BR games.

Here’s about ten minutes of Battlefield V, during which I: (1) give a very brief look at the class/vehicle customization screen (levelling everything up and earning achievements for skins and weapon/vehicle specializations is a mini-game in and of itself); (2) slowly scroll through each of the game’s various single player PVE and multiplayer PVE/PVP options (only one of which is a Battle Royal mode); (3) demonstrate how it is possible to either IMMEDIATELY jump into hundreds of in-progress PVP matches when there are spots open, or let the squad finder do its thing and randomly match you up with a team; and (4) show several minutes of Conquest, during which all of my button presses register instantly (no frantic, repeated mashing to swap to my secondary weapon, unlike bar swapping in Cyrodiil and BGs), I don’t encounter random loading screens while in the middle of a fight, and the game does not randomly shut down when more than a few players converge in on the same location.

https://youtu.be/dQq1tR0T9Gg

Skip to the 3:10 mark if you want to see how quickly it takes me to get a full squad of four in the middle of a North American weekday via the squad finder. (The timer is on the lower right hand side of the screen).

I would have been sitting in the queue for that video’s entire duration AND THEN SOME if I’d attempted to run a BG, or if I couldn’t find any guild mates free to do a dungeon run (which is usually the case, as I’m a shift worker and often play outside of prime time). The video above demonstrates how match making systems in AAA games are supposed to work. I honestly don’t care if BGs are big money makers or not; they’re a supported game mode, and they should work. Also, those of us who used to run BGs exclusively still spent money on subs and bought stuff from the store... I personally spent thousands on ESO over the years before I stopped subbing and uninstalled.

So yeah, dismissing the group finder problems as not a big deal because there’s other stuff you can do in the game isn’t helping, and sends the wrong message to the developers. IT IS NOT OKAY that people wait, on average, 20-30 minutes to play BGs and find dungeon groups via the group finder. Not everyone wants to crash in Cyrodiil or queue for dungeons as a tank.

[edited to remove quote]

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Yes it’s unfortunate that the dungeon-finder doesn’t work as it should and BG is experiencing some problems, but guess what, shish happens. Go outside. Unplug for the game a little. Trust me, it’ll be here if you decide to come back.

Imagine if people who played Battlefield, COD, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, etc. couldn’t get into matches at all because the matchmaking system was completely broken. Imagine if, on a good day when the matchmaking systems WERE working, it took upwards of half an hour of sitting in a queue before you were matched up with other players in those games. Imagine if those games then crashed over and over again when players finally made it into a match, often right in the middle of you fighting another person. IT WOULDN’T HAPPEN, because those games would go out of business so quickly if their associated developers coded THAT badly.

Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing. Why should we just shrug and say “shish happens” when we wouldn’t tolerate it in any other triple A video game that relies on matchmaking systems?

Since you seem to be focused mostly on BR types of games and are speaking to their queue system, most of them are pretty much one trick ponies to begin with. So yea, if their queue system did not work the game would fold because that is all the game really is.

Granted, Zos needs to get the GF working and hopefully Rich's comments today are a sign they are getting the GF together. However, we managed to do dungeons just fine before there was a semi-properly working GF and the BG part really does little to support this game.

Regardless, comparing apples to oranges does not work out well. Comparing what is essentially a one trick pony to a much more diverse game does not make sense.

You didn’t read my post in its entirity, . I’ll quote the relevant part for you:

“Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing.”

You need to understand that some people ONLY play this game for BGs — a game mode that 100% relies on the match-making queue. For a while, I only played BGs, because performance in Cyrodiil is generally intolerable, and because PVE eventually bored me to tears. The only time I ever ran dungeons after committing 100% to PVP was when I needed to grind gear, or when I needed to grind Undaunted. When you only PVP, most of your in-game friends tend to only PVP. Finding groups outside of the dungeon finder isn’t always easy.

The game itself may be diverse, but not everyone plays all the content on offer. If I wanted to, I could pick flowers all day on PS4 NA with few problems. That’s not what I want, though. I want to play BGs, and I want to play in Cyrodiil without the game crashing multiple times per hour. I can’t do either of those things, so I’m playing other PVP games that actually deliver stable content to their paying customers.

Edit: PS, only two of the five games I mentioned are exclusive BR games. The other games all have multiple forms of PVP that all work well. Some also have single player campaigns.

I read it all. You seem to misunderstand what I said so I will attempt to state it more clearly.

1. you compared games that are pretty much one trick ponies to a multidimensional game.
2. BGs are not a money maker for Zos. People do not have to pay more than the sale price of the base game to participate. Same for players that only want to play in Cyrodiil. Which makes your analogy of what is essentially BR games even more out of place.

Zos does need to get the issues corrected, get the server working properly. However, it has more to do with the revenue generating parts of the game which is where the core, the majority of players spend their time. BGs is just for diversity of what we can do, not a core part of this game by any means.

I don’t know why you’re so focused on “one trick pony” BR games. Only two of the games I listed AS AN EXAMPLE of other PVP games that run smoothly because their players wouldn’t accept anything less are exclusive BR games.

That was your comparison. Even here you are focused on PvP games. ESO is focused mostly on PvE with PvP not brining in any direct revenue to the game.

I edited out the rest since it focuses on a game that is not even in the same genre. A much more simplistic game from it's foundation. You are still comparing apples to oranges and question why we point that out.


edit: You also comment about how long it took for you to get a full squat of 4 via their GF. Again, not even the same type of game. More of a one trick pony whereas ESO is much more diverse but also more focused on PvE, far from a PvP game since that is not what brings in the revenue.

Once again, you are not reading what I’m saying. Some of us only PVP. We have just as much right as, say, someone who only does housing and overland questing to have a functioning game. I’m well aware that FPS games are not MMOs. I’m not comparing game genres: I’m comparing games that work in all modes (e.g. BFV) to a game that only works in some modes (i.e. ESO).

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Yes it’s unfortunate that the dungeon-finder doesn’t work as it should and BG is experiencing some problems, but guess what, shish happens. Go outside. Unplug for the game a little. Trust me, it’ll be here if you decide to come back.

Imagine if people who played Battlefield, COD, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, etc. couldn’t get into matches at all because the matchmaking system was completely broken. Imagine if, on a good day when the matchmaking systems WERE working, it took upwards of half an hour of sitting in a queue before you were matched up with other players in those games. Imagine if those games then crashed over and over again when players finally made it into a match, often right in the middle of you fighting another person. IT WOULDN’T HAPPEN, because those games would go out of business so quickly if their associated developers coded THAT badly.

Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing. Why should we just shrug and say “shish happens” when we wouldn’t tolerate it in any other triple A video game that relies on matchmaking systems?

Since you seem to be focused mostly on BR types of games and are speaking to their queue system, most of them are pretty much one trick ponies to begin with. So yea, if their queue system did not work the game would fold because that is all the game really is.

Granted, Zos needs to get the GF working and hopefully Rich's comments today are a sign they are getting the GF together. However, we managed to do dungeons just fine before there was a semi-properly working GF and the BG part really does little to support this game.

Regardless, comparing apples to oranges does not work out well. Comparing what is essentially a one trick pony to a much more diverse game does not make sense.

You didn’t read my post in its entirity, . I’ll quote the relevant part for you:

“Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing.”

You need to understand that some people ONLY play this game for BGs — a game mode that 100% relies on the match-making queue. For a while, I only played BGs, because performance in Cyrodiil is generally intolerable, and because PVE eventually bored me to tears. The only time I ever ran dungeons after committing 100% to PVP was when I needed to grind gear, or when I needed to grind Undaunted. When you only PVP, most of your in-game friends tend to only PVP. Finding groups outside of the dungeon finder isn’t always easy.

The game itself may be diverse, but not everyone plays all the content on offer. If I wanted to, I could pick flowers all day on PS4 NA with few problems. That’s not what I want, though. I want to play BGs, and I want to play in Cyrodiil without the game crashing multiple times per hour. I can’t do either of those things, so I’m playing other PVP games that actually deliver stable content to their paying customers.

Edit: PS, only two of the five games I mentioned are exclusive BR games. The other games all have multiple forms of PVP that all work well. Some also have single player campaigns.

I read it all. You seem to misunderstand what I said so I will attempt to state it more clearly.

1. you compared games that are pretty much one trick ponies to a multidimensional game.
2. BGs are not a money maker for Zos. People do not have to pay more than the sale price of the base game to participate. Same for players that only want to play in Cyrodiil. Which makes your analogy of what is essentially BR games even more out of place.

Zos does need to get the issues corrected, get the server working properly. However, it has more to do with the revenue generating parts of the game which is where the core, the majority of players spend their time. BGs is just for diversity of what we can do, not a core part of this game by any means.

I don’t know why you’re so focused on “one trick pony” BR games. Only two of the games I listed AS AN EXAMPLE of other PVP games that run smoothly because their players wouldn’t accept anything less are exclusive BR games.

That was your comparison. Even here you are focused on PvP games. ESO is focused mostly on PvE with PvP not brining in any direct revenue to the game.

I edited out the rest since it focuses on a game that is not even in the same genre. A much more simplistic game from it's foundation. You are still comparing apples to oranges and question why we point that out.


edit: You also comment about how long it took for you to get a full squat of 4 via their GF. Again, not even the same type of game. More of a one trick pony whereas ESO is much more diverse but also more focused on PvE, far from a PvP game since that is not what brings in the revenue.

Once again, you are not reading what I’m saying. Some of us only PVP. We have just as much right as, say, someone who only does housing and overland questing to have a functioning game. I’m well aware that FPS games are not MMOs. I’m not comparing game genres: I’m comparing games that work in all modes (e.g. BFV) to a game that only works in some modes (i.e. ESO).

Umm, no. I have read that. Clearly I have. What you are clearly missing is my comments that this game is not a PvP game and not even heavily focused on PvP as it does not generate revenue.

That is why comparing it to games from a different genre, games that have such a limited focus and more simplistic design makes no sense. Heck, the only thing you seem to be able to rebuttal with is a false claim that I did not read that you are only interested in PvP, the part of this game that is not a revenue driver.

Edited, left out important word.

So, despite the fact that this game supports MULTIPLE PVP modes, it’s not fair to compare ESO’s terrible performance and match making system to other PVP games because PVP is not a “revenue driver” in this game (have some stats on that claim, BTW?). Gotcha. Guess I’ll just keep playing other games that actually work.

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Yes it’s unfortunate that the dungeon-finder doesn’t work as it should and BG is experiencing some problems, but guess what, shish happens. Go outside. Unplug for the game a little. Trust me, it’ll be here if you decide to come back.

Imagine if people who played Battlefield, COD, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, etc. couldn’t get into matches at all because the matchmaking system was completely broken. Imagine if, on a good day when the matchmaking systems WERE working, it took upwards of half an hour of sitting in a queue before you were matched up with other players in those games. Imagine if those games then crashed over and over again when players finally made it into a match, often right in the middle of you fighting another person. IT WOULDN’T HAPPEN, because those games would go out of business so quickly if their associated developers coded THAT badly.

Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing. Why should we just shrug and say “shish happens” when we wouldn’t tolerate it in any other triple A video game that relies on matchmaking systems?

Since you seem to be focused mostly on BR types of games and are speaking to their queue system, most of them are pretty much one trick ponies to begin with. So yea, if their queue system did not work the game would fold because that is all the game really is.

Granted, Zos needs to get the GF working and hopefully Rich's comments today are a sign they are getting the GF together. However, we managed to do dungeons just fine before there was a semi-properly working GF and the BG part really does little to support this game.

Regardless, comparing apples to oranges does not work out well. Comparing what is essentially a one trick pony to a much more diverse game does not make sense.

You didn’t read my post in its entirity, . I’ll quote the relevant part for you:

“Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing.”

You need to understand that some people ONLY play this game for BGs — a game mode that 100% relies on the match-making queue. For a while, I only played BGs, because performance in Cyrodiil is generally intolerable, and because PVE eventually bored me to tears. The only time I ever ran dungeons after committing 100% to PVP was when I needed to grind gear, or when I needed to grind Undaunted. When you only PVP, most of your in-game friends tend to only PVP. Finding groups outside of the dungeon finder isn’t always easy.

The game itself may be diverse, but not everyone plays all the content on offer. If I wanted to, I could pick flowers all day on PS4 NA with few problems. That’s not what I want, though. I want to play BGs, and I want to play in Cyrodiil without the game crashing multiple times per hour. I can’t do either of those things, so I’m playing other PVP games that actually deliver stable content to their paying customers.

Edit: PS, only two of the five games I mentioned are exclusive BR games. The other games all have multiple forms of PVP that all work well. Some also have single player campaigns.

I read it all. You seem to misunderstand what I said so I will attempt to state it more clearly.

1. you compared games that are pretty much one trick ponies to a multidimensional game.
2. BGs are not a money maker for Zos. People do not have to pay more than the sale price of the base game to participate. Same for players that only want to play in Cyrodiil. Which makes your analogy of what is essentially BR games even more out of place.

Zos does need to get the issues corrected, get the server working properly. However, it has more to do with the revenue generating parts of the game which is where the core, the majority of players spend their time. BGs is just for diversity of what we can do, not a core part of this game by any means.

I don’t know why you’re so focused on “one trick pony” BR games. Only two of the games I listed AS AN EXAMPLE of other PVP games that run smoothly because their players wouldn’t accept anything less are exclusive BR games.

That was your comparison. Even here you are focused on PvP games. ESO is focused mostly on PvE with PvP not brining in any direct revenue to the game.

I edited out the rest since it focuses on a game that is not even in the same genre. A much more simplistic game from it's foundation. You are still comparing apples to oranges and question why we point that out.


edit: You also comment about how long it took for you to get a full squat of 4 via their GF. Again, not even the same type of game. More of a one trick pony whereas ESO is much more diverse but also more focused on PvE, far from a PvP game since that is not what brings in the revenue.

Once again, you are not reading what I’m saying. Some of us only PVP. We have just as much right as, say, someone who only does housing and overland questing to have a functioning game. I’m well aware that FPS games are not MMOs. I’m not comparing game genres: I’m comparing games that work in all modes (e.g. BFV) to a game that only works in some modes (i.e. ESO).

Umm, no. I have read that. Clearly I have. What you are clearly missing is my comments that this game is not a PvP game and not even heavily focused on PvP as it does not generate revenue.

That is why comparing it to games from a different genre, games that have such a limited focus and more simplistic design makes no sense. Heck, the only thing you seem to be able to rebuttal with is a false claim that I did not read that you are only interested in PvP, the part of this game that is not a revenue driver.

Edited, left out important word.

So, despite the fact that this game supports MULTIPLE PVP modes, it’s not fair to compare ESO’s terrible performance and match making system to other PVP games because PVP is not a “revenue driver” in this game (have some stats on that claim, BTW?). Gotcha. Guess I’ll just keep playing other games that actually work.

Correct. While I am not defending the performance of ESO, the games you are pointing out have much simpler designs, much less going on with their servers.

If you had bothered to read what Rich had to say yesterday about the activity finder he explains that the AF shares many of the same resources as other parts of the game. Many of those other parts would not be part of such simplistic game designs as what you are using as examples.

Well, my mistake then, for expecting a game that I’ve spent thousands on to work just as well as the other games I play. ESO is so much more ~complex~ than those hurr durr simplistic 64 player FPS games I play, and the huge, sprawling RPGs I play, and the ridiculously in depth story-driven games I play, and the other MMOs I’ve dabbled with recently, and so on.

In all seriousness, ESO used to play more or less flawlessly on PC and on console; the likeliest culprit for the increasingly terrible performance is poor coding secondary to loss of talented developers, as well as inordinate focus on the Crown store — which is what happens when MMOs near maintenance mode.

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khajiitNPC wrote: »

Yes it’s unfortunate that the dungeon-finder doesn’t work as it should and BG is experiencing some problems, but guess what, shish happens. Go outside. Unplug for the game a little. Trust me, it’ll be here if you decide to come back.

Imagine if people who played Battlefield, COD, Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, etc. couldn’t get into matches at all because the matchmaking system was completely broken. Imagine if, on a good day when the matchmaking systems WERE working, it took upwards of half an hour of sitting in a queue before you were matched up with other players in those games. Imagine if those games then crashed over and over again when players finally made it into a match, often right in the middle of you fighting another person. IT WOULDN’T HAPPEN, because those games would go out of business so quickly if their associated developers coded THAT badly.

Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing. Why should we just shrug and say “shish happens” when we wouldn’t tolerate it in any other triple A video game that relies on matchmaking systems?

Since you seem to be focused mostly on BR types of games and are speaking to their queue system, most of them are pretty much one trick ponies to begin with. So yea, if their queue system did not work the game would fold because that is all the game really is.

Granted, Zos needs to get the GF working and hopefully Rich's comments today are a sign they are getting the GF together. However, we managed to do dungeons just fine before there was a semi-properly working GF and the BG part really does little to support this game.

Regardless, comparing apples to oranges does not work out well. Comparing what is essentially a one trick pony to a much more diverse game does not make sense.

You didn’t read my post in its entirity, . I’ll quote the relevant part for you:

“Remember, for many of us, all content outside of dungeons/trials, Cyrodiil, and BGs is irrelevant. Many of us care little for open world PVE, materials harvesting, and housing.”

You need to understand that some people ONLY play this game for BGs — a game mode that 100% relies on the match-making queue. For a while, I only played BGs, because performance in Cyrodiil is generally intolerable, and because PVE eventually bored me to tears. The only time I ever ran dungeons after committing 100% to PVP was when I needed to grind gear, or when I needed to grind Undaunted. When you only PVP, most of your in-game friends tend to only PVP. Finding groups outside of the dungeon finder isn’t always easy.

The game itself may be diverse, but not everyone plays all the content on offer. If I wanted to, I could pick flowers all day on PS4 NA with few problems. That’s not what I want, though. I want to play BGs, and I want to play in Cyrodiil without the game crashing multiple times per hour. I can’t do either of those things, so I’m playing other PVP games that actually deliver stable content to their paying customers.

Edit: PS, only two of the five games I mentioned are exclusive BR games. The other games all have multiple forms of PVP that all work well. Some also have single player campaigns.

I read it all. You seem to misunderstand what I said so I will attempt to state it more clearly.

1. you compared games that are pretty much one trick ponies to a multidimensional game.
2. BGs are not a money maker for Zos. People do not have to pay more than the sale price of the base game to participate. Same for players that only want to play in Cyrodiil. Which makes your analogy of what is essentially BR games even more out of place.

Zos does need to get the issues corrected, get the server working properly. However, it has more to do with the revenue generating parts of the game which is where the core, the majority of players spend their time. BGs is just for diversity of what we can do, not a core part of this game by any means.

I don’t know why you’re so focused on “one trick pony” BR games. Only two of the games I listed AS AN EXAMPLE of other PVP games that run smoothly because their players wouldn’t accept anything less are exclusive BR games.

That was your comparison. Even here you are focused on PvP games. ESO is focused mostly on PvE with PvP not brining in any direct revenue to the game.

I edited out the rest since it focuses on a game that is not even in the same genre. A much more simplistic game from it's foundation. You are still comparing apples to oranges and question why we point that out.


edit: You also comment about how long it took for you to get a full squat of 4 via their GF. Again, not even the same type of game. More of a one trick pony whereas ESO is much more diverse but also more focused on PvE, far from a PvP game since that is not what brings in the revenue.

Once again, you are not reading what I’m saying. Some of us only PVP. We have just as much right as, say, someone who only does housing and overland questing to have a functioning game. I’m well aware that FPS games are not MMOs. I’m not comparing game genres: I’m comparing games that work in all modes (e.g. BFV) to a game that only works in some modes (i.e. ESO).

Umm, no. I have read that. Clearly I have. What you are clearly missing is my comments that this game is not a PvP game and not even heavily focused on PvP as it does not generate revenue.

That is why comparing it to games from a different genre, games that have such a limited focus and more simplistic design makes no sense. Heck, the only thing you seem to be able to rebuttal with is a false claim that I did not read that you are only interested in PvP, the part of this game that is not a revenue driver.

Edited, left out important word.

So, despite the fact that this game supports MULTIPLE PVP modes, it’s not fair to compare ESO’s terrible performance and match making system to other PVP games because PVP is not a “revenue driver” in this game (have some stats on that claim, BTW?). Gotcha. Guess I’ll just keep playing other games that actually work.

Correct. While I am not defending the performance of ESO, the games you are pointing out have much simpler designs, much less going on with their servers.

If you had bothered to read what Rich had to say yesterday about the activity finder he explains that the AF shares many of the same resources as other parts of the game. Many of those other parts would not be part of such simplistic game designs as what you are using as examples.

Well, my mistake then, for expecting a game that I’ve spent thousands on to work just as well as the other games I play. ESO is so much more ~complex~ than those hurr durr simplistic 64 player FPS games I play, and the huge, sprawling RPGs I play, and the ridiculously in depth story-driven games I play, and the other MMOs I’ve dabbled with recently, and so on.

In all seriousness, ESO used to play more or less flawlessly on PC and on console; the likeliest culprit for the increasingly terrible performance is poor coding secondary to loss of talented developers, as well as inordinate focus on the Crown store — which is what happens when MMOs near maintenance mode.

Again, I am not defending Zos. Just pointing out comparing two different types of games are not all that comparable. The resources required to operate plus the complexity of programing are very different, but you seem to be grasping that now. When there is much less to contend with there are fewer things that can go wrong.

I am surprised that someone who only PvPs and cares little for housing, as you have pointed out, would have found a way to spend thousands on ESO.

No need to condescend with your “you seem to be grasping that now” comment; my previous response was sarcastic. Most big name AAA games are all complex coding undertakings with their own idiosyncrasies. It’s not like Battlefield is some little indie side scrolling platform game — BFV has to populate and sustain literally hundreds of 64 player matches simultaneously on each of the three gaming platforms that the game is available on, with each player using their own individual cosmetic setups, weapon specializations, and vehicle loadouts. We’re talking about thousands upon thousands of individually customized players all loading DICE’s systems 24/7 between PC, XB1, and PS4, with hardly any major hiccups on any platform, and matchmaking that literally takes seconds at any time of the day. That’s not a “simplistic” game to maintain and code for by any stretch of the imagination. And BFV is not the only game DICE maintains! BF1 and BF4 still have healthy populations as well. FPS games aren’t MMOs, no, but it’s terribly misguided to think that FPS games are “simple” to develop.

Also, if we want to talk about MMOs, let’s look at FFXIV; that game runs perfectly on PS4 with minimal issues. I’d still be playing it if I cared at all about that IP.

As for how a PVPer can spend thousands on ESO? Well, given that I subbed for three and a half years, bought the base game TWICE (first on PC, then on PS4), bought every new chapter (some special editions), and spent money on mounts, cosmetic items, motifs I had zero interest grinding trials for, etc... Take a stroll through Cyrodiil sometime; the sheer number of disco light clown crate mounts you’ll see may convince you that PVPers spend money on the game as well.