Editing factual criticisms will not fix the multitude of issues

IndianaJames7 · November 2019

I fully understand the importance of forum moderation to keep threads civil, on subject and meaningful. For the most part the forum rules make perfect sense and it’s a good thing that they are there.

That being said, I also understand the frustration of users when there are countless threads of issues that players have that are never addressed by ZOS, but are clearly gone through with a fine comb to ensure there are no mean comments.

Sometimes you can’t help be feel like mods are avoiding addressing or even acknowledging the real issues players are having and prioritizing lesser issues like moderation of what you can and can’t say.

Remember in university when you had a really big and important assignment that you keep procrastinating by finding infinite small unimportant tasks to fill your time with instead? Like, “You know I really should vacuum my carpet right now” or “I need to reorganize my folders so I can keep track of the documents I have and will create this semester. How else will I start this assignment if I don’t have a proper place to save it?” It kind of feels like that tbh

barney2525 · November 2019

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.

Oh, they are "working" on it. Please tell me... For how long have they been working on issues that were reported years ago?

We had to reach 2019 for them to fix the Ebon Armory bug!!!!!!

People should keep reporting issues so that developers get the message and fix them. If everyone shuts his mouth, the devs will only ignore them and keep the game in a zombie state.

I don't think anyone is advocating 'shutting up' about issues.

And unless you have some actual inside information, actually Fixing tech issues is a lot more difficult and time consuming than a lot of people want to believe. People watch TV and the computer whiz solves the problem in 3 minutes and people actually believe " that can happen". That ain't real life.

No one says to be quiet and not report anything. But when they say 'we are working on it ', they probably ARE working on it. Things take time - especially if you have to identify what the root cause of a problem is. That can take a Loooong time.

jaws343 · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.

Oh, they are "working" on it. Please tell me... For how long have they been working on issues that were reported years ago?

We had to reach 2019 for them to fix the Ebon Armory bug!!!!!!

People should keep reporting issues so that developers get the message and fix them. If everyone shuts his mouth, the devs will only ignore them and keep the game in a zombie state.

I don't think anyone is advocating 'shutting up' about issues.

And unless you have some actual inside information, actually Fixing tech issues is a lot more difficult and time consuming than a lot of people want to believe. People watch TV and the computer whiz solves the problem in 3 minutes and people actually believe " that can happen". That ain't real life.

No one says to be quiet and not report anything. But when they say 'we are working on it ', they probably ARE working on it. Things take time - especially if you have to identify what the root cause of a problem is. That can take a Loooong time.

I think that is always the biggest problem with these types of complaints. People want the devs to communicate with us, but in the same breath, they try to hold them to whatever that communication is. If Zos says "we are working on it," they get thrown under the bus for not getting it done sooner, etc. If Zos says "we expect a fix to be in next week for this" and that ends up not working out, they are called liars or bashed for not holding to that estimate.

It just seems that they are better off not even acknowledging issues and fixing them in the background than they are engaging and getting completely eviscerated when a goal they set to accomplish is delayed.

apri · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

That can take a Loooong time.

The thing is, most players have some patience with that. However, when bugs pile up and more and more come on top, more costumes get release, more DLCs, yet bugs stay in-place that are years old by now (I look at you health desync snipe), then people lose trust in any such promise without some kind of action. Action towards improvement.

Personally I hope for an ETA for a fix for the console crashes. They really are that type of bug that stops me playing. There's no way around, when the game stops running, what are we supposed to do but to stop?

wavingblue · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.

Oh, they are "working" on it. Please tell me... For how long have they been working on issues that were reported years ago?

We had to reach 2019 for them to fix the Ebon Armory bug!!!!!!

People should keep reporting issues so that developers get the message and fix them. If everyone shuts his mouth, the devs will only ignore them and keep the game in a zombie state.

I don't think anyone is advocating 'shutting up' about issues.

And unless you have some actual inside information, actually Fixing tech issues is a lot more difficult and time consuming than a lot of people want to believe. People watch TV and the computer whiz solves the problem in 3 minutes and people actually believe " that can happen". That ain't real life.

No one says to be quiet and not report anything. But when they say 'we are working on it ', they probably ARE working on it. Things take time - especially if you have to identify what the root cause of a problem is. That can take a Loooong time.

They took a year with group finder and still haven't produced a viable product, in fact quite the opposite.. it was coded from the ground up brand new and managed to crater EU in a new record of just a couple of hours. So how long should we be expected to wait for a product that works while spending hundreds of dollars a year?

Jaraal · November 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Just because the game is broke again doesn't excuse you from following the forum rules.)

How does one “constructively” express their dissatisfaction with subpar programming and sporadically working servers?

“Hey, the game isn’t working, but let me tell you about this other great game I’ve been playing recently!”

Sorry, this thread is not ESO related.... *delete*

Anotherone773 · November 2019

Cavedog wrote: »

Bug reports can be made in game. That's how I report bugs.

What we are talking about today that is breaking the game is the repeated, perennial issues with lag and fps drops. Every patch lately has made both ping and fps worse.

How many years are we expected to believe they can patch their way out of this mess? I do not believe they can, and that ESO needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. If they could patch their way out of this, they would have by now.

If they redo ESO, it will be set in a different time. it wont be this era. The bugs we complain about dont affect a large portion of the player base because they dont use those features. I know many people in the game that would tell you its completely bug free and many that do experience the bugs think its their computer that is the problem.

So while your experience may be a terrible one, for every one of you there are 9 others that are perfectly fine. Is that worth a game rebuild? No. And they struggle to patch because they dont fix underlying problems before adding new stuff to the game. You cant say " ill get to that later" and toss a bunch of new code on old code that has issues and expect the new code to work. Thats insane. All your doing is creating a house of cards that can be toppled with the least little thing...and is obviously.

Fix bugs has to be a frequent ongoing process pretty much with weekly fixes to keep on top of it.

Bennisphinx · November 2019

ZOS_Nith wrote: »

Hi all!

Just to elaborate on a few things, constructive criticism is always welcome. Many productive conversations on the forums have come from well articulated points provided by the forum community! That being said, our moderation team upholds our forum rules which are in place to prevent conversations from getting hostile, derailed, or generally nonproductive.

We hope that the forum community brings thoughtful points to the table to argue. We just ask that the conversations remain civil and constructive.

An example of a nonconstructive comment would be: "I hate this new patch!" This comment doesn't provide any information or contribute to the on going conversation. Alternatively, a comment like "I hate the following changes in the new patch. This is what I would change and here is why, etc." provides great examples, articulates suggestions, and allows the rest of the forums to participate in the thread!

As a reminder, please feel free to reach out to a member of the moderation team if you have any questions about a moderation action that was taken.

Since my (admittedly satirical, but nevertheless not forum rules-violating) post was removed: I think it is rather audacious that you demand players give more in-depth feedback, when most of the time the only "feedback" concerning changes we get is "<thing> got changed". No information why or what the ultimate goal of these changes is, or even just a link to a forum post where the change was discussed previously. Similarly, when the Undaunted event was cancelled: unless you actively visited the forums and checked the Dev Tracker, you had no idea it got cancelled; you might have guessed it when you didn't receive your tickets or items you where looking for, but at no point did you actually bite the bullet and inform players about that in an accessible way. This is further exemplified by how the EU server problems are communicated: no information about what's wrong and when we can expect a fix; it's always just the usual "we are investigating issues some players are experiencing" non-information, without giving any insight into what's wrong and when things will actually work properly again, and not just kind-of for a week, after which some - usually the same - thing breaks again. So the next time you remove a "nonconstructive comment", consider how the way you* handle communication with players might have affected how players give feedback and communicate with you, and start being more detailed in whats happening behind the scenes and especially why yourself.

That being said: no, I don't think we need 50 different threads every day, which are basically just "<thing> is bad, zos doesn't know how to program a game, lol" either, and being plain abusive towards and insulting other forum users (players and mods alike) is obviously not OK. I just don't think that commenting a change with "I don't like what you did with/to <thing> in the last patch" without further information is inherently nonconstructive, when no justification for changing <thing> in the first place was given either.

* this also includes all ZOS staff that could add to a constructive and in-depth discussion about whatever issue is discussed

VaranisArano · November 2019

Jaraal wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Just because the game is broke again doesn't excuse you from following the forum rules.)

How does one “constructively” express their dissatisfaction with subpar programming and sporadically working servers?

“Hey, the game isn’t working, but let me tell you about this other great game I’ve been playing recently!”

Sorry, this thread is not ESO related.... *delete*

I get the feeling this isn't entirely serious...but hey, I'm a teacher.
I'm not going to tell you how you should write, but here's an example of how I tend to write.

Non-constructive: "Whelp, servers on the fritz again! Thanks for more time to play Warframe instead of your event, ZOS."

More constructive: "The servers are off again, and instead of getting event tickets, I'm off to play Warframe. One of things I appreciate about Warframe is that when they do time-limited events for unique rewards, they often have only a few valuable Non-RNG rewards (which greatly reduces the grind) and those reward missions are available for 7 to 10 days (which gives me a lot of freedom for when I get the rewards.)
It also means that Warframe hasn't had to extend events because everyone had a fair chance to get the reward. Even with their grind-heavy Nightwave, if you miss a weekly mission, you can earn it back the next week. Letting us make up for lost days would be a fantastic way for ZOS to handle players missing out on ticket days due to server outages without having to extend the event for everyone who already participated. I don't know if that's possible in ESO, or even desirable to follow Warframe's example, but thank you for your consideration."

Not that I don't have my fair share of snarky comments on these forums, this thread being a case in point. But when it comes to offering constructive feedback to ZOS, its generally beneficial to be specific and detailed about making suggestions.

Especially with Warframe. The last thing I want to do is say "I'm gonna play Warframe" and have a Dev think "Oh, so you really like grind-intensive RNG and paying platinum for convenience all the time, right?"

Hell no!

its good to be specific!

DaveMoeDee · November 2019

Huyen wrote: »

Cavedog wrote: »

There are many issues with ESO right now. Selectively editing every post on this forum WILL NOT MAKE THOSE ISSUES GO AWAY! All your selective editing is doing is giving ESO/ZOS/Bethesda a bad name and a black eye.

Adults resolve issues by discussing them openly. Petty edits to thousands of threads solves nothing.

Censorship is not the answer. Fixing the game is the answer.

Would you kindly tell my girlfriends dad that adults like us solve problems by talking please? In my experience most people try to solve it by trying to control others....

Or by yelling at people to express their anger, despite nothing productive coming from it.

Vahrokh · November 2019

Nestor wrote: »

There is huge difference between criticism that is intended to make the game better and just slamming the game and everything related to it.

Usually this flaming happens after years of neglect.

Only a minority are masochists rabidly living on the forums in hope to gloat about how bad the game is. The huge majority would just have fun, the fun they paid in advance to have.

Now enter a company that for [reasons] does not deliver an acceptable experience, for months. Then people give up on civil discourse and just want someone to burn on a stake.

Jaraal · November 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

There is huge difference between criticism that is intended to make the game better and just slamming the game and everything related to it.

Usually this flaming happens after years of neglect.

Only a minority are masochists rabidly living on the forums in hope to gloat about how bad the game is. The huge majority would just have fun, the fun they paid in advance to have.

Now enter a company that for [reasons] does not deliver an acceptable experience, for months. Then people give up on civil discourse and just want someone to burn on a stake.

Exactly this.

When YEARS of saying, "Hey, did you guys know your group finder isn't working?" yields absolutely no fruit, what are people expected to say?

"I know I've said this 35 times before, but did you guys know your group finder isn't working?"

Cavedog · November 2019

Unintended consequences?..........

....people who can't stay online in game due to disconnect issues end up on the forum...and guess what, they are frustrated when they get here.

If the game worked as good as some here claim, most of us would never post here. We'd be in game, not on this forum.

I just disconnected three times in 20 minutes, and had to try logging in 20 times or more. Out of 20 min, I was in game maybe three. The whole time I was just trying to get back into the game.

Confronting ZOS and their representatives directly IS in order at this point. They can not patch their way out of this situation. If they could, they would have by now. Remember, the group finder fiasco shut down the undaunted event two years ago, last year, and again this year too. That's three years boys and girls. If patching could fix it, it would be fixed by now. They must rebuild this game from the ground up.

thegreatme · November 2019

heaven13 wrote: »

To be fair, it is a well known fact that the bug reports thread rarely gets acknowledged. Just look at Cradle of Shadows; people have been reporting in Bug Reports since October 25. There are multiple threads on the issue in that forum. Where was it acknowledged? General. And the 'target is out of range' bug was also reported and discussed in general.

I've noticed not all bug threads get responded to or directly acknowledged, but the bugs still get fixed, depending on what it is and how simple the fix probably is. I posted a bug report about non-working door furnsihings a while back (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/496744/akatosh-door-elsweyr-gate-masterwork-bugged-cant-interact-without-deco-permissions). No one ever responded to it, but the next minor patch fixed the issue. Door furnishings work now like they're supposed to (which on a personal level makes me infinitely more happy, this is a big deal for my purposes).

So I'd say they're paying attention, they're just picking and choosing what to fix, probably based on difficulty and time of the fix and how many factors are involved, they're just not always directly communicating it. A non-interactable door furnishing glitch is a rather super easy, simple fix with very few outside factors to work with, without running into other conflicting code problems.

D0PAMINE wrote: »

IIRC, the staff size is not massive and they do have their own lives. I believe the Devs, mods, and tnose in charge are nice people irl. As someone who works in customer service, I do understand why companies are not vocal until things are contained and controlled regardless of how long that may take.

I know in jobs I've worked, even if I had a customer who just wanted honesty about where something was at, I'd get managers on my butt with aggressive "Do not tell the customer this", "do not mention that", usually the reasoning either coming down to liability or making them angry if we couldn't deliver as promised. It created as many problems as it supposedly solved, but the managers seemed to believe it was the better course.

Suffice to say it was always a breath of fresh air when the managers weren't around and we could be honest under our breath and 95% of the time customers were happy with the honesty, but you can't really get away with that in an online medium because of course their higher management can see it here.

jaws343 wrote: »

I think that is always the biggest problem with these types of complaints. People want the devs to communicate with us, but in the same breath, they try to hold them to whatever that communication is. If Zos says "we are working on it," they get thrown under the bus for not getting it done sooner, etc. If Zos says "we expect a fix to be in next week for this" and that ends up not working out, they are called liars or bashed for not holding to that estimate.

It just seems that they are better off not even acknowledging issues and fixing them in the background than they are engaging and getting completely eviscerated when a goal they set to accomplish is delayed.

To some extent, this. And the online medium is full of trolls who just want to argue to argue, because arguing and bashing gets them attention.

Computer code is a complex beast. The more complicated something becomes, the more potential it has to break. That's why I'm not holding my breath but hoping the game's future planned re-code slated for next year will actually do some good, because it sounds like on the code layer at least they're slimming it down, instead of throwing more code via patches at it. Cleaner code makes a more functional game. Whether it works in actuality the way its supposed to work in theory, we'll see when that update goes live.

Cavedog wrote: »

How many years are we expected to believe they can patch their way out of this mess? I do not believe they can, and that ESO needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. If they could patch their way out of this, they would have by now.

That's what they're at least claiming they're working on for 2020 is redoing the whole back end rather than just patching it. Unfortunately nobody, even ZoS, is going to know how much its going to fix or break yet, but we can hope for now its going to be a step in the right direction and everything will happen more or less on schedule.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

So while your experience may be a terrible one, for every one of you there are 9 others that are perfectly fine. Is that worth a game rebuild? No. And they struggle to patch because they dont fix underlying problems before adding new stuff to the game. You cant say " ill get to that later" and toss a bunch of new code on old code that has issues and expect the new code to work. Thats insane. All your doing is creating a house of cards that can be toppled with the least little thing...and is obviously.

Exactly this. Which is probably why recoding the game's back-end is on their To-Do but its not something that can be rushed or you just end up with a system that's going to crash and burn the same as the last. I know I'm not the only one who's emphasized to ZoS to take their time with the coding overhaul because I'd rather be frustrated now with the occasional bug or crash and have an amazing-working game later, than just another bad update. The impatient people can just keep being impatient as long as it means the game genuinely improves.

Anotherone773 · November 2019

thegreatme wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

So while your experience may be a terrible one, for every one of you there are 9 others that are perfectly fine. Is that worth a game rebuild? No. And they struggle to patch because they dont fix underlying problems before adding new stuff to the game. You cant say " ill get to that later" and toss a bunch of new code on old code that has issues and expect the new code to work. Thats insane. All your doing is creating a house of cards that can be toppled with the least little thing...and is obviously.

Exactly this. Which is probably why recoding the game's back-end is on their To-Do but its not something that can be rushed or you just end up with a system that's going to crash and burn the same as the last. I know I'm not the only one who's emphasized to ZoS to take their time with the coding overhaul because I'd rather be frustrated now with the occasional bug or crash and have an amazing-working game later, than just another bad update. The impatient people can just keep being impatient as long as it means the game genuinely improves.

I try to be patient myself. It does get frustrating, as a paying customer, for there to be major problems. And many of these issues have either got worse or been the same for the YEARS i have been playing. You think" they have time to pump out a bunch of new content but not fix (X)" and that can be really frustrating because then it feels like a money grab game to people. We are not an ATM machine, we expect a working and usable product as advertised for our payment.

ZOS needs to listen their customers. All developers do. We will tell you what we want. You have the ability to create it. Create it and we will buy it. Why is this such a hard concept? I am far more likely to spend money and increase the amount i spend on a game if i am happy with it. Thats why i dont get these new mobile games that try to frustrate you into spending money. I spend money on things that make me happy things that make me unhappy get cut off. I spend $15 a month on ESO. That isnt even 10% of what i spend on gaming a month. ZOS could get a bigger slice of that pie, but they have earn it and they arent right now. They are keeping my sub, though if i was on PC EU that might be a much different story.

It would be a lot better if people seen progress towards improvement. But all we see is wild swings of nerf bats, bugs ignored, events canceled now, and low server performance along with constant "new" being pumped out. I think actual communication between players and devs would do a world of good. The only problem with that is you have people who will immediately go into attack mode instead of trying to have a constructive conversation to improve the game and all that does is put people off.

Id have to be on anti depressants and have my own dedicated therapist to do the mods job tbh. Being stuck as a customer meat shield can be a really bad job even in good companies with great products.

gatekeeper13 · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

And unless you have some actual inside information, actually Fixing tech issues is a lot more difficult and time consuming than a lot of people want to believe.

Ok... And what is your actual inside information that fixing issues like e.g. Ebon Armory weapon swap bug was so difficult and time consuming it took them years to fix?

What you say makes no sense. ESO is not the only MMORPG out there. And while issues in other popular MMORPG titles get fixed in a few months, in ESO everything takes years or isnt fixed at all like the group finder, the broken server, the framedrops, the "black" character models, the bad memory management, the myriad of dungeon bugs where people get stuck in walls (CoH) or get under the stairs (WS) and cant get out or lasers that hit them behind shields (FV), the lag in weapon swap, block or abilities and so many other problems that aren't fixed so many years after they first appeared.

What I believe is that ESO is being kept alive by a very small team that can't deal with its numerous issues and that's because ZOS refuses to give funds for this game anymore. ZOS focus is on other projects, not ESO.

Huyen · November 2019

heaven13 wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

Gythral wrote: »

markulrich1966 wrote: »

I see not even one thread on the first 2 pages of the bugreports, so you actually abuse the general forum to exxpress your frustration instead of supplying constructive, descriptive feedback on issues that were not yet reported.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports

That is because ZOS never look at anything reported in that section until it is FAR too late and FAR past the time something should be done about issues

nonsense. Example is the "target is out of range" bug looting corpses that was introduced around elsweyr. Was reported, got fixes.

Other issues like lag and memory leaks are adressed on the roadmap, they are far more complex and thus take longer to solve.
You ca be happy, that I am not admin here (have moderated other boards), cause I would not only lock messages, but the ban the posters if they repeatly violate the forum rules and flood them with shitstorms.

To be fair, it is a well known fact that the bug reports thread rarely gets acknowledged. Just look at Cradle of Shadows; people have been reporting in Bug Reports since October 25. There are multiple threads on the issue in that forum. Where was it acknowledged? General. And the 'target is out of range' bug was also reported and discussed in general.

The combat bug is still here, been reported for years, and is still ignored. How are we supposed not to get frustrated?

barney2525 · November 2019

wavingblue wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.

Oh, they are "working" on it. Please tell me... For how long have they been working on issues that were reported years ago?

We had to reach 2019 for them to fix the Ebon Armory bug!!!!!!

People should keep reporting issues so that developers get the message and fix them. If everyone shuts his mouth, the devs will only ignore them and keep the game in a zombie state.

I don't think anyone is advocating 'shutting up' about issues.

And unless you have some actual inside information, actually Fixing tech issues is a lot more difficult and time consuming than a lot of people want to believe. People watch TV and the computer whiz solves the problem in 3 minutes and people actually believe " that can happen". That ain't real life.

No one says to be quiet and not report anything. But when they say 'we are working on it ', they probably ARE working on it. Things take time - especially if you have to identify what the root cause of a problem is. That can take a Loooong time.

They took a year with group finder and still haven't produced a viable product, in fact quite the opposite.. it was coded from the ground up brand new and managed to crater EU in a new record of just a couple of hours. So how long should we be expected to wait for a product that works while spending hundreds of dollars a year?

I know this is going to sound sarcastic, but its not. It's just a straight answer to the question.

We wait for as long as it takes.

In the end, players have the option to stick with it, or go elsewhere, either for a temporary period or permanently find something else. I think that most people at Zos do Not want these bugs. I think we can agree that most people at Zos want these bugs fixed and want everything in the game to run smoothly.

It sux when there is no defined end in sight. But when something does finally get fixed and runs properly, that changes everything, and all the bad times fade away.

And That is from experience.

barney2525 · November 2019

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

And unless you have some actual inside information, actually Fixing tech issues is a lot more difficult and time consuming than a lot of people want to believe.

Ok... And what is your actual inside information that fixing issues like e.g. Ebon Armory weapon swap bug was so difficult and time consuming it took them years to fix?

What you say makes no sense. ESO is not the only MMORPG out there. And while issues in other popular MMORPG titles get fixed in a few months, in ESO everything takes years or isnt fixed at all like the group finder, the broken server, the framedrops, the "black" character models, the bad memory management, the myriad of dungeon bugs where people get stuck in walls (CoH) or get under the stairs (WS) and cant get out or lasers that hit them behind shields (FV), the lag in weapon swap, block or abilities and so many other problems that aren't fixed so many years after they first appeared.

What I believe is that ESO is being kept alive by a very small team that can't deal with its numerous issues and that's because ZOS refuses to give funds for this game anymore. ZOS focus is on other projects, not ESO.

You don't have any inside information about the Ebon armory bug.... and you are asking Me why it took so long rather than asking Zos. Yeah, that makes sense. As far as the rest....

Well, that's a nice opinion. And you are welcome to it.

But since that is your opinion, with everything you have listed, my question would be - WHY are you still here?

If that list of bugs is constant, the game is unplayable. You have bugs listed I have never even seen before, much less had to deal with. I personally have not run into a lot of what you describe so I have no comment on those issues.

But if for me, and my system, if everything was as bad as you are saying it is, there is no way I would still be playing. I would be playing something else.

But that's just me.

Kadoin · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.

Oh, they are "working" on it. Please tell me... For how long have they been working on issues that were reported years ago?

We had to reach 2019 for them to fix the Ebon Armory bug!!!!!!

People should keep reporting issues so that developers get the message and fix them. If everyone shuts his mouth, the devs will only ignore them and keep the game in a zombie state.

I don't think anyone is advocating 'shutting up' about issues.

And unless you have some actual inside information, actually Fixing tech issues is a lot more difficult and time consuming than a lot of people want to believe. People watch TV and the computer whiz solves the problem in 3 minutes and people actually believe " that can happen". That ain't real life.

No one says to be quiet and not report anything. But when they say 'we are working on it ', they probably ARE working on it. Things take time - especially if you have to identify what the root cause of a problem is. That can take a Loooong time.

Not to toot my own horn, but, [ahem]... I am capable of that and do it all the time. But my mind is all over the place when it comes to code of any kind... I actually enjoy debugging though.

ChunkyCat · November 2019

bugs are gross

gatekeeper13 · November 2019

barney2525 wrote: »

You don't have any inside information about the Ebon armory bug.... and you are asking Me why it took so long rather than asking Zos. Yeah, that makes sense. As far as the rest....

Well, that's a nice opinion. And you are welcome to it.

But since that is your opinion, with everything you have listed, my question would be - WHY are you still here?

If that list of bugs is constant, the game is unplayable. You have bugs listed I have never even seen before, much less had to deal with. I personally have not run into a lot of what you describe so I have no comment on those issues.

But if for me, and my system, if everything was as bad as you are saying it is, there is no way I would still be playing. I would be playing something else.

But that's just me.

I dont want to ask ZOS why it took them so long to fix this bug because I dont need too. It was an argument to help you understand why you re wrong.

And I am still in the game because I like the gameplay and the lore and because playing does not require a montly sub.

As for the bugs, just because you didnt run into them, doesnt mean they dont exist. If you search the forum, you ll see them all mentioned in numerous topics by various users.

thegreatme · November 2019

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

As for the bugs, just because you didnt run into them, doesnt mean they dont exist. If you search the forum, you ll see them all mentioned in numerous topics by various users.

I've been playing ESO for around a year and a half, first on a really crappy laptop that would almost cook itself trying to run the game, especially during event periods, and on a desktop that runs reasonably well.

The only actual play-breaking bugs I've encountered is where you get stuck running into an invisible cell loading wall (on my laptop, which was more on the laptop having rendering troubles), getting stuck in overworld objects after a dodge roll and having to port out of them (also on my laptop), and login/crash bugs (mostly on my desktop since my laptop is currently screaming for death just trying to open Paint).

The rest of the bugs I've encountered have been generally minor. Uninteractible doors on ZoS's side (fixed), visual-only annoyance weapon swap bugs, the occasional run-on-your-running-horse glitch (which imho is a pretty funny one anyway).

Point being, a lot of people are encountering a lot of different bugs. Some people never come across all the same bugs as you do.

When a problem is more easily seen and diagnosed on ZoS' end with a consistent way to make the bug appear (such as the activity finder, inability to log-in or crashes, etc), its easier for them to jump to and at least TRY to fix it.

More ambiguous bugs or bugs that only show up under extremely select conditions that are harder to duplicate (I'm just pulling an example out of my butt but let's say, a bug that only appears in a certain dungeon when you're running a certain combination of classes when your tank and dps is running sets X and Y or using abilities G and H), I don't expect an easy fix, and some game bugs in ANY game do only show up in such weird, oddly specific circumstances. How big of a deal the bug is and how many it affects will also tie directly into when and how fast, or even if, they fix a particular bug. That just seems like common sense to me.

ZoS might have really great coders, and the problem is the base game that was originally made (since I see a lot of complaints about "this was broken since Beta", which was a different team, which does make sense why they would want to overhaul the base code). They might be great coders, just not for the specific problems ESO needs fixed (specialists within a specialty ZoS hasn't been able to find, or get to agree to work for them for the pay they offer). I can't say because I don't work there.

What I do know is that the more code you throw into a game, the higher the chance that something will break. Sometimes the fix breaks another part of the code they didn't foresee even interacting with each other. Sometimes they might have seen it would cause a problem but some higher big wig said "Push it to live anyway, that's what I'm paying you for".

None of us know, we can only speculate. The only thing left to question is whether or not its worth it to us, as individuals, to keep playing or not.

Kiralyn2000 · November 2019

idk wrote: »

First off Zos does not permit discussing forum moderation in the forums.

Heck with ZOS, every major game forum I've ever been on[ has locked/deleted 'discussion of moderation' threads.

kargen27 · November 2019

Cavedog wrote: »

There are many issues with ESO right now. Selectively editing every post on this forum WILL NOT MAKE THOSE ISSUES GO AWAY! All your selective editing is doing is giving ESO/ZOS/Bethesda a bad name and a black eye.

Adults resolve issues by discussing them openly. Petty edits to thousands of threads solves nothing.

Censorship is not the answer. Fixing the game is the answer.

Cracks me up that you think the developers should be reading the forums instead of working on the game. The forum moderators are here to see that the forums stay somewhat civil and mostly game related. It is what they do. We also have spokespeople that read the forums and keep us (or not depending on view) informed about the game. The spokespeople are the go between for the players who post in the forum and the developers that work on the game. The language and tone we use in the forums has no real impact on how the developers do their thing other than maybe depressing them some if they actually do read the forums. I wouldn't if I were them. The language and tone only matters in the flow of the forums between the users. If something is edited it is because moderators thought it would disrupt the conversations in these forums.

MercilessnVexed · November 2019

I totally come here for the popcorn. It's the best popcorn on the interwebz.

Jaraal · November 2019

kargen27 wrote: »

Cavedog wrote: »

There are many issues with ESO right now. Selectively editing every post on this forum WILL NOT MAKE THOSE ISSUES GO AWAY! All your selective editing is doing is giving ESO/ZOS/Bethesda a bad name and a black eye.

Adults resolve issues by discussing them openly. Petty edits to thousands of threads solves nothing.

Censorship is not the answer. Fixing the game is the answer.

Cracks me up that you think the developers should be reading the forums instead of working on the game. The forum moderators are here to see that the forums stay somewhat civil and mostly game related. It is what they do. We also have spokespeople that read the forums and keep us (or not depending on view) informed about the game. The spokespeople are the go between for the players who post in the forum and the developers that work on the game. The language and tone we use in the forums has no real impact on how the developers do their thing other than maybe depressing them some if they actually do read the forums. I wouldn't if I were them. The language and tone only matters in the flow of the forums between the users. If something is edited it is because moderators thought it would disrupt the conversations in these forums.

If I were a developer of a game, you're darn right I would be reading a forum related to my game in my spare time. My employers may be telling me to do this and that, but I would be very interested to see how people who actually use my product feel about it. Am I smart enough to look past the drama and false outrage and gather data on trends? I'd like to think so. And maybe at my next daily / weekly team meeting, I might suggest we look at this or that way of doing things. Would I mention that I read a bunch of forum posts and came to some conclusions? Maybe not. But I think most people are educated and informed enough to verbalize how certain aspects of the game are working for them, or not. And I may see their reasoning and look at something from an angle I may have not considered.

To make a blanket statement that devs are too busy working on the game to read forums is quite short sighted.

idk · November 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

First off Zos does not permit discussing forum moderation in the forums.

Heck with ZOS, every major game forum I've ever been on[ has locked/deleted 'discussion of moderation' threads.

They are private forum so they are entitled and as the moderator said they are often not constructive. Surprised Zos has permitted this one to exist based on past history.

KillsAllElves · November 2019

ZOS_FelipeF wrote: »

Greetings,

Some posts were removed from this thread due to their non-constructive nature. Please remember to be civil and abide to the community rules in your discussions.

Lmfao

dcam86b14_ESO · November 2019

attacking mods is like attacking popeyes workers bc they ran out of chicken sandwiches