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Editing factual criticisms will not fix the multitude of issues
Cavedog
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There are many issues with ESO right now. Selectively editing every post on this forum WILL NOT MAKE THOSE ISSUES GO AWAY! All your selective editing is doing is giving ESO/ZOS/Bethesda a bad name and a black eye.
Adults resolve issues by discussing them openly. Petty edits to thousands of threads solves nothing.
Censorship is not the answer. Fixing the game is the answer.
Adults resolve issues by discussing them openly. Petty edits to thousands of threads solves nothing.
Censorship is not the answer. Fixing the game is the answer.
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Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.33 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First off Zos does not permit discussing forum moderation in the forums. If someone has a question about why action was taken they are asked to PM a mod. Not getting on your case, just saying things how they are as this is a private forum.
To your point see a great many posts and thread complain about various aspects of the game without getting edited., I see moderators editing bashing, baiting, flaming and extremely unconstructive. There have been some rare cases I have disagreed with their action but for the most part I see them editing or removing comments where the person went a few steps to far because they feel safe sitting in their homes far away from anyone else. Sometimes people can get a little carried away when protected by what seems to be anonymity in the internet.9 -
gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.
Oh, they are "working" on it. Please tell me... For how long have they been working on issues that were reported years ago?
We had to reach 2019 for them to fix the Ebon Armory bug!!!!!!
People should keep reporting issues so that developers get the message and fix them. If everyone shuts his mouth, the devs will only ignore them and keep the game in a zombie state.Edited by gatekeeper13 on November 20, 2019 1:01PM20 -
Cavedog✭✭✭✭✭
✭Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.
It's frustrating that so many kids now days view accurate, factual criticism as bashing. People need to grow up and learn to deal with confrontation like adults.
This is the forum that exists for discussing these things, so this is where they should be discussed.Edited by Cavedog on November 20, 2019 1:05PM38 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.
So, at what point do we say, "Oh, they're working on the group finder that's been broken for years, and they keep saying it's fixed but it's not, they tried though so let's forget about it and keep paying money for the broken game.... because they're working on it!"
Sure, a few people will be faithful to the end, even though they can't even log in most of the time. But it's ridiculous to expect that everyone is going to be some devoted lemming that keeps paying and buying stuff from the Crown Store that they may or may not be able to use because the game just doesn't work for them.12 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"The game is broken! Let the forums become a rioting mob of an anarcho-syndicalist commune where the rules of forum discourse don't apply to me!"
Mods: "Not how that works. Follow the forum rules or we'll edit/close your thread."
"Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system. Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help, I'm being repressed!"
(Just because the game is broke again doesn't excuse you from following the forum rules.)17 -
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are many issues with ESO right now. Selectively editing every post on this forum WILL NOT MAKE THOSE ISSUES GO AWAY! All your selective editing is doing is giving ESO/ZOS/Bethesda a bad name and a black eye.
Adults resolve issues by discussing them openly. Petty edits to thousands of threads solves nothing.
Censorship is not the answer. Fixing the game is the answer.
Would you kindly tell my girlfriends dad that adults like us solve problems by talking please? In my experience most people try to solve it by trying to control others....Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh2 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see not even one thread from you on the first 2 pages of the bugreports, so you actually abuse the general forum to express your frustration instead of supplying constructive, descriptive feedback on issues that were not yet reported.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reportsEdited by markulrich1966 on November 20, 2019 2:02PM4 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭markulrich1966 wrote: »I see not even one thread on the first 2 pages of the bugreports, so you actually abuse the general forum to exxpress your frustration instead of supplying constructive, descriptive feedback on issues that were not yet reported.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports
That is because ZOS never look at anything reported in that section until it is FAR too late and FAR past the time something should be done about issues“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy12 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is huge difference between criticism that is intended to make the game better and just slamming the game and everything related to it.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"13 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭markulrich1966 wrote: »I see not even one thread on the first 2 pages of the bugreports, so you actually abuse the general forum to exxpress your frustration instead of supplying constructive, descriptive feedback on issues that were not yet reported.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports
That is because ZOS never look at anything reported in that section until it is FAR too late and FAR past the time something should be done about issues
nonsense. Example is the "target is out of range" bug looting corpses that was introduced around elsweyr. Was reported, got fixes.
Other issues like lag and memory leaks are adressed on the roadmap, they are far more complex and thus take longer to solve.
You ca be happy, that I am not admin here (have moderated other boards), cause I would not only lock messages, but the ban the posters if they repeatly violate the forum rules and flood them with shitstorms.4 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭speak softly and ppl will strain to listen, shout and they will cover their ears10 -
Saltisol✭✭✭✭Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.
Sorry but I must say that you are a bit naive.
Of course they are aware of it but is your answer to silently wait for them to fix it ?3 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.
Sorry but I must say that you are a bit naive.
Of course they are aware of it but is your answer to silently wait for them to fix it ?
shouting loudly at something you have no control over will not increase the level of control you have7 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have seen at least 7 threads removed completely in the last week..."Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."1 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭UppGRAYxDD wrote: »I have seen at least 7 threads removed completely in the last week...
but did you read those 7 threads and understand why they were removed? knowledge is one thing, comprehension is something completely different6 -
ZOS_FalcoYamaokaadminGreetings,
Some posts were removed from this thread due to their non-constructive nature. Please remember to be civil and abide to the community rules in your discussions.
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Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There is huge difference between criticism that is intended to make the game better and just slamming the game and everything related to it.
^^^This. I believe i know the thread the OP is referring to and i saw it after it was moderated. It was quite aggressive and angry even after it had been moderated. That is not discussing it like an adult. That is bashing because you are frustrated.
Yes ZOS can do a much better job. Yes there are a lot of bugs. Yes it takes way to long to fix them or get simple QoL improvements. Yes, our feedback( such as the recent update feedback) seems to fall on death ears. But angrily bashing ZOS and calling it criticism will do nothing but maybe get you thread locked or banned if its extreme enough.
Threats to cancel your account and quitting post do nothing either but take up forum space. Do you know how many people quit this game everyday? And how many people start playing it? A single person quitting because they are frustrated is nothing. Also ESO actually gets really good reviews probably because a bunch of super carebears play it, and most bugs go unnoticed questing and collecting.
Then you have people who play on potatoes , bad connections, and other game related issues outside of ZOS control. Did you know most issues with your typical software program is on the user end but the first thing people want to do is blame the company. Because companies are evil for wanting to make profits! Profits are a companies only goal.
We forum users are a minority in games and most companies ignore our feedback. They shouldnt because we care enough to give feedback and we often know how their game works better than they do since they dont spend near the time in it as a live version as we do. Customers are greatly under utilized as a tool to improve games and draw more customers but turning the forums into a riot mob will never fix that and it wont get anyone what they want unless its on a ban wagon.
Edit: BTW this post is how to have an adult discussion. I bashed neither ZOS nor "frustrated players" but still made every single point i wanted to make.Edited by Anotherone773 on November 20, 2019 2:28PM7 -
theyancey✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have long though that ZOS allowed far too much unfounded hatred and far too many abject troll posts on this forum. It is great to have a basically open forum to discuss the pros and cons of the game. There have many good suggestions about how to add to and improve the game. However allowing the trolls to dominate the board has irreparably harmed the game. I personally know a half dozen people who decided to not even play the game during free times after reading this forum. Allowing these types of attacks to continue really needs to be curtailed.
That being said I have noticed lately that the pendulum has sadly swung in the opposite direction. Threads rightfully denouncing the complete debacle of the Undaunted event, the abysmally inept handling of the removal of the CP program and its lack of a replacement, and of complaints about the general status of the game have been ham handedly edited or deleted outright. This smacks of the ESO wagons being circled and the fire of board moderation directed towards the players. Just as in real life the cover up can be worse than the underlying issue. The feel from reading these boards lately is that the game's current faults and the player's reactions to them are indeed being covered up. Whether right or wrong that is the impression given.
I started playing this game in closed beta. I paid the sub and maintained my membership after launch. My opinion was then and is today that the base game was one of the greatest experiences in gaming. Even with the plethora of launch flaws the game's hits and potential far outweighed the negatives. I have taken a few breaks now and again to rejuvenate and deal with real life events. However I am still here and my current ESO+ sub is paid through May. I plan to continue to play after that time. However I will evaluate whether it makes any sense to continue with the Plus membership. That will be contingent on the state of the game and the content of these forums at the time. My hope is that I will be able to re-up.2 -
svartorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_FelipeF wrote: »Greetings,
Some posts were removed from this thread due to their non-constructive nature. Please remember to be civil and abide to the community rules in your discussions.
And so it continues.8 -
Ilision✭✭✭What do you think would happen if no one mentioned these issues to ZOS and just left the game instead? Then ZOS would be asking questions as to why people are leaving. I do however agree and disagree with you. Overposting the same stupid over and over is ridiculous but they are doing it because they do not hear from ZOS reference updates on what they are actually doing to resolve these issues.
If you are going to constantly take, you should also probably give.Edited by Ilision on November 20, 2019 3:12PM1 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Usually its just Gregory and Antonio. Now we got a Felipe as well. Imagine if the actual dev team grew this fast?
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ZOS_NithadminHi all!
Just to elaborate on a few things, constructive criticism is always welcome. Many productive conversations on the forums have come from well articulated points provided by the forum community! That being said, our moderation team upholds our forum rules which are in place to prevent conversations from getting hostile, derailed, or generally nonproductive.
We hope that the forum community brings thoughtful points to the table to argue. We just ask that the conversations remain civil and constructive.
An example of a nonconstructive comment would be: "I hate this new patch!" This comment doesn't provide any information or contribute to the on going conversation. Alternatively, a comment like "I hate the following changes in the new patch. This is what I would change and here is why, etc." provides great examples, articulates suggestions, and allows the rest of the forums to participate in the thread!
As a reminder, please feel free to reach out to a member of the moderation team if you have any questions about a moderation action that was taken.10 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭markulrich1966 wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »I see not even one thread on the first 2 pages of the bugreports, so you actually abuse the general forum to exxpress your frustration instead of supplying constructive, descriptive feedback on issues that were not yet reported.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports
That is because ZOS never look at anything reported in that section until it is FAR too late and FAR past the time something should be done about issues
nonsense. Example is the "target is out of range" bug looting corpses that was introduced around elsweyr. Was reported, got fixes.
Other issues like lag and memory leaks are adressed on the roadmap, they are far more complex and thus take longer to solve.
You ca be happy, that I am not admin here (have moderated other boards), cause I would not only lock messages, but the ban the posters if they repeatly violate the forum rules and flood them with shitstorms.
To be fair, it is a well known fact that the bug reports thread rarely gets acknowledged. Just look at Cradle of Shadows; people have been reporting in Bug Reports since October 25. There are multiple threads on the issue in that forum. Where was it acknowledged? General. And the 'target is out of range' bug was also reported and discussed in general.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS6 -
KappaKid83✭✭✭✭✭markulrich1966 wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »I see not even one thread on the first 2 pages of the bugreports, so you actually abuse the general forum to exxpress your frustration instead of supplying constructive, descriptive feedback on issues that were not yet reported.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports
That is because ZOS never look at anything reported in that section until it is FAR too late and FAR past the time something should be done about issues
nonsense. Example is the "target is out of range" bug looting corpses that was introduced around elsweyr. Was reported, got fixes.
Other issues like lag and memory leaks are adressed on the roadmap, they are far more complex and thus take longer to solve.
You ca be happy, that I am not admin here (have moderated other boards), cause I would not only lock messages, but the ban the posters if they repeatly violate the forum rules and flood them with shitstorms.
To be fair, it is a well known fact that the bug reports thread rarely gets acknowledged. Just look at Cradle of Shadows; people have been reporting in Bug Reports since October 25. There are multiple threads on the issue in that forum. Where was it acknowledged? General. And the 'target is out of range' bug was also reported and discussed in general.
Agreed, it has been stated that they use the bug report forum but more stuff gets noticed in General Discussion and therefore the Bug Reports Forum is seemingly useless.4 -
Cavedog✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bug reports can be made in game. That's how I report bugs.
What we are talking about today that is breaking the game is the repeated, perennial issues with lag and fps drops. Every patch lately has made both ping and fps worse.
How many years are we expected to believe they can patch their way out of this mess? I do not believe they can, and that ESO needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. If they could patch their way out of this, they would have by now.5 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does anyone seriously believe that bashing the game and the devs in the forums over and over again actually makes the game better? It’s just selfish venting that only benefits the venter. Yes the game has issues. I know it, you know it, and the devs know it, and they’ve reported that they’re working on it.
Very true. I imagine they're likely working around the clock to get things back in order to keep the rest of the performence upgrades and fixes on schedule during the busy time of the year. IIRC, the staff size is not massive and they do have their own lives. I believe the Devs, mods, and tnose in charge are nice people irl. As someone who works in customer service, I do understand why companies are not vocal until things are contained and controlled regardless of how long that may take.
I appreciate the level headed post.3 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Remember the "Bosmer losing stealth: an open letter" thread that got closed? The one where arguments were calmly and poignantly laid out?
Yeah...10 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Nith
I do appreciate you laying out a clear explanation. Its good to know that constructive feedback is helpful to both the Devs and the community.
I also want to thank you for also taking the time to leave feedback and comments on a number of threads recently.
One of the complaints I've seen on the forums is that the mods "only pop in to moderate and not answer questions". I appreciate your effort to engage with the community and to pass issues along to other teams when necessary. Hopefully more Mods will be able to join you in offering feedback and answers, as well as needed corrections.
Another complaint I recall is that its hard to tell when the Devs are reading our posts because they don't often leave feedback. Again, its nice to see that changing! Even simple acknowledgements do a lot to help combat the impression that player feedback is being ignored. Hopefully this continues and more mods/devs are able to chime in as time goes on!
Thank you.4