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Global auction house verses limited traders
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Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Okay, im sorry. My entire point is done and dusted, because i made an error in my second language. I go hide in my cave! Thanks!
Who said anything about your point being negated? I simply replied in the manner i was addressed. Incidentally, to clarify, I simply prefer a system similar to WOW's, where other players are not involved directly in what you sell.
Now I will go back to my dreaming, and you can go back to your cave.
Other players dont have any involvement in what you sell though.0 -
TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Okay, im sorry. My entire point is done and dusted, because i made an error in my second language. I go hide in my cave! Thanks!
Who said anything about your point being negated? I simply replied in the manner i was addressed. Incidentally, to clarify, I simply prefer a system similar to WOW's, where other players are not involved directly in what you sell.
Now I will go back to my dreaming, and you can go back to your cave.
Other players dont have any involvement in what you sell though.
You have to sell through a players guild (if not selling in chat etc) so to my mind, they are directly involved.
2 -
SillyPlay✭✭I think it would be nice to have an extra trader, with 500 or less slots in zones, that you can bid for to be able to sell for a month(so a single guild trader for individuals that works the same way with slots) . Or the trader only lists items for a week/few days per person with limited slots. Still, I like the current trade system0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »EternalDiva wrote: »Global auction house
1) buyers and sellers only as limited as the realm (or server) you are playing on. Potentially hundreds or thousands of players.
2) auction houses are located in every city and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No hoping from city to city, or down beaten path to find what you need.
3) The auction house does take a small fee for items sold on auction house. But you do not pay anyone else for access.
4) prices are governed by competition. Just as with a trader, if the item is limited the price may be jacked out of proportion and only the wealthiest players can afford it. On the other hand, more often, the more sellers you have the better the prices.
5) because you have access to more buyers and sellers its easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create
ESO trading system
1) Limited to 5 guilds for a total of 2500 players to buy and sell from.
2) most guilds demand 150K per week to be a member. You are spending with no guarantee of getting your moneys worth. The guild owner reels in the profits.
3) guild trader also charges a fee per item
4) you will have to travel a LOT if you are looking for something that your limited 5 guilds isnt selling.
5) with less buyers your options for selling usually are not be as good as it is with a global auction house.
6) because access to buyers is limited the items generally sell for higher prices
I have used both systems for years. The global auction house is better by far. T
What I like about the global auction house THE most is that there is no highway robbery from your guild. If you belong to a guild it's about game play. Whether you stay in the guild or get kicked --it is about your game play and attitude toward others. Not about the money the guild owner wants you to provide so that they can make a profit off you.
ESO is a great game. But the trading system only works for the few. Too much like capitalism.
Id also like ESO to stop closing down legitimate conversations about this when one person gets nasty. Delete the nasty person from the thread. Don't shut down the rest of us. Because it kinda looks like you just don't want to hear a different opinion when you do that. Especially when the convo really wasn't contentious at all. Its kind of like the bully yells at the kid chatting amiably to shut up. Then instead of making the bully go away you just shush everyone. Bully wins every time.
You might not want an auction house dear ESO. But you should at least be willing to let us talk about it. And listen to what we are saying. There is nothing to be afraid of. And everything to be gained by LISTENING.
Love you!
P.s to those of you who feel threatened by people talking about auction houses or you are just "so sick of hearing about it"...stop reading things you do not like. Go away. Play your game. Leave those who do want to talk about it alone. Don't be that troll. You know that troll? The one who has no life and goes around looking for people to be rude to. If you dont like the topic go find one you do. Or make up your own!
Usually the only people who defend the current system are those who use addons to make the system operate more like a global market/auction house.
What they should really do is shut down such addons or incorporate them into the base game (my preferred solution) That way everyone would at least be on the same page and we could stop having a silly debate where one side keeps defending a inadequate system even though they are passively admitting is significantly flawed due to the fact the are supplementing it with addons.
I dont defend the existing system because of addons. I defend it because it provides a massive gold sink to the economy, a global trader would be a drain on the servers (until improved), and it would require an economic reset to implement.
If they were to incorporate these addons that everyone (or nearly everyone) uses on PC to make the guild trader system more palatable, the gold sink aspect of it would remain the same. So I can respect that your stance is neutral in regards to these addons. But it still doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the people satisfied with the current guild trader system rely on addons to make it satisfactory. I was highlighting how the indifference to that fact often goes unsaid in these debates and leads to a rift between players where there probably shouldn't be one.
In other words: I was trying to suggest if it wasn't for these addons being thrown into the mix there would be a lot more agreement between players as to their contentment with the current guild trader system or lack there of. If that makes any sense.Edited by Jeremy on November 16, 2019 9:38PM2 -
majulook✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, I do not believe that ZOS has the ability to do this and have it actually work.
ZOS cannot get the Group Tool to function and that only putting 4 players together in a group, and you expect them to be able to list out a search of items for sale on each Megaserver.
Si vis pacem, para bellum0 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »EternalDiva wrote: »Global auction house
1) buyers and sellers only as limited as the realm (or server) you are playing on. Potentially hundreds or thousands of players.
2) auction houses are located in every city and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No hoping from city to city, or down beaten path to find what you need.
3) The auction house does take a small fee for items sold on auction house. But you do not pay anyone else for access.
4) prices are governed by competition. Just as with a trader, if the item is limited the price may be jacked out of proportion and only the wealthiest players can afford it. On the other hand, more often, the more sellers you have the better the prices.
5) because you have access to more buyers and sellers its easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create
ESO trading system
1) Limited to 5 guilds for a total of 2500 players to buy and sell from.
2) most guilds demand 150K per week to be a member. You are spending with no guarantee of getting your moneys worth. The guild owner reels in the profits.
3) guild trader also charges a fee per item
4) you will have to travel a LOT if you are looking for something that your limited 5 guilds isnt selling.
5) with less buyers your options for selling usually are not be as good as it is with a global auction house.
6) because access to buyers is limited the items generally sell for higher prices
I have used both systems for years. The global auction house is better by far. T
What I like about the global auction house THE most is that there is no highway robbery from your guild. If you belong to a guild it's about game play. Whether you stay in the guild or get kicked --it is about your game play and attitude toward others. Not about the money the guild owner wants you to provide so that they can make a profit off you.
ESO is a great game. But the trading system only works for the few. Too much like capitalism.
Id also like ESO to stop closing down legitimate conversations about this when one person gets nasty. Delete the nasty person from the thread. Don't shut down the rest of us. Because it kinda looks like you just don't want to hear a different opinion when you do that. Especially when the convo really wasn't contentious at all. Its kind of like the bully yells at the kid chatting amiably to shut up. Then instead of making the bully go away you just shush everyone. Bully wins every time.
You might not want an auction house dear ESO. But you should at least be willing to let us talk about it. And listen to what we are saying. There is nothing to be afraid of. And everything to be gained by LISTENING.
Love you!
P.s to those of you who feel threatened by people talking about auction houses or you are just "so sick of hearing about it"...stop reading things you do not like. Go away. Play your game. Leave those who do want to talk about it alone. Don't be that troll. You know that troll? The one who has no life and goes around looking for people to be rude to. If you dont like the topic go find one you do. Or make up your own!
Usually the only people who defend the current system are those who use addons to make the system operate more like a global market/auction house.
What they should really do is shut down such addons or incorporate them into the base game (my preferred solution) That way everyone would at least be on the same page and we could stop having a silly debate where one side keeps defending a inadequate system even though they are passively admitting is significantly flawed due to the fact the are supplementing it with addons.
I dont defend the existing system because of addons. I defend it because it provides a massive gold sink to the economy, a global trader would be a drain on the servers (until improved), and it would require an economic reset to implement.
If they were to incorporate these addons that everyone (or nearly everyone) uses on PC to make the guild trader system more palatable, the gold sink aspect of it would remain the same. So I can respect that your stance is neutral in regards to these addons. But it still doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the people satisfied with the current guild trader system rely on addons to make it satisfactory. I was highlighting how the indifference to that fact often goes unsaid in these debates and leads to a rift between players where there probably shouldn't be one.
In other words: I was trying to suggest if it wasn't for these addons being thrown into the mix there would be a lot more agreement between players as to their contentment with the current guild trader system or lack there of. If that makes any sense.
The basics of MM/ATT should be part of the base game. Individual sales tracking, gold contributed from taxes, sales history from your own guilds, average listing info based on traders you visit (not globally, and not real-time updating).
Those are basic features that would greatly improve trading from the get-go while maintaining the trader system that keeps inflation near zero and monopolizing functionally impossibleEdited by Contaminate on November 16, 2019 11:00PM2 -
Zulera301✭✭✭✭✭I like the guild traders. It enlivens a spirit of competition and makes you have to actually do a little work to get the best deals.
you can buy from any guild store; you can only sell from the ones you're in though. and the 150k fee is rubbish. that might be a sales quota requirement, but sell a couple of rare motifs and you're golden for the week. even most of the highest-end trade guilds only charge about 20-25k per week, and if you sell enough a lot of them are willing to waive it.
capitalism is cool like that. you actually have to work to get what you want.Shortly after the formation of the Ebonheart Pact, a Nord woman was given a tour of the Tribunal Temple. When later asked about the experience, she seemed upset. Suffice to say, the Dunmer were not pleased to hear this, and thus they inquired further.
"Well," the Nord frowned, "the priests were very angry and unwelcoming. They kept shouting things at me like "you can't drink that mead in here!" and "somebody stop her, she's running naked!" and "we can't catch her; she's covered in grease!""2 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
I Absolutely Agree.
And what the players who love playing the trading game as if that is the Only thing ESO is about will tell you is " You can find a guild that doesn't charge" or " 5000 gold per week is nothing. Anyone can make that".
All of which is garbage. Why should the majority of players be restricted in what they are literally ALLOWED to do in game, by a minority of players who focus solely on what should be a minor aspect of the game?
I say leave the Traders AND ADD a GAH. Let the players decide what they want to use.
But I have suggested this before, and the pro-Traders have said it would put the Trader system out of business.
Which should tell Everyone which system the majority of players Wants in the game.
IMHO
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barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oh great another Auctionhouse thread. Awesome!
First off, MAYBE if you would have an auctionhouse at the start then PERHAPS, it would be better for the average player.
But to swtich now? This is just not possible. Not without a SIGNIFICANT goldsink.
But to be honest, i have never seen a more healthy economy than the ESO one. There is no inflation whatsoever, prices of some items do even deflate. And people literally PAY for the option to have a trader. Sure, some people make profit of the tradingguilds, but there are also guys, who just farm or trade or something, JUST to have a trader for their Guild.
ESO has a FULL community just for trading. Not to mention that if you would be thrown in the world, an auctionhouse wouldnt make sense (i know that some people ignore the roleplay part of the game, but for others its REALLY important)
Also, it helps to keep the cities "busy". You can think of it what you want. But the trading system is one of the reasons so many people run around in Eldenroot, Wayrest, Rawl etc.
Thats also the reason why we dont have the option to do crafting daylies in our house. The game would just be empty.
I know there will always be diffrent opnions. Some people like the system some don't.
But you cannot seriously think that you can just copy paste a auctionhouse in this game, without breaking the whole economy apart. Not to mention that you would KILL a whole "subcommunity", however small you think it is.
It's part of the game. You cannot just change it.
Sure you can.
It called an Update. Some of us are familiar with them. Perhaps you never have been through one. Its when things that worked one way for a long time suddenly are gone. Something different took their place.
The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.
Bottom line - Zos can do anything they want.
If you think that CAN'T do anything they want, I think you are just being silly.
IMHO 3 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »I say leave the Traders AND ADD a GAH.
That would undermine the traders and cause a complete and total market crash. But I suspect you know this and that you are in fact counting on it."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
wenchmore420b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »Oh great another Auctionhouse thread. Awesome!
I know there will always be diffrent opnions. Some people like the system some don't.
But you cannot seriously think that you can just copy paste a auctionhouse in this game, without breaking the whole economy apart. Not to mention that you would KILL a whole "subcommunity", however small you think it is.
It's part of the game. You cannot just change it.
Sure you can.
It called an Update. Some of us are familiar with them. Perhaps you never have been through one. Its when things that worked one way for a long time suddenly are gone. Something different took their place.
The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.
Bottom line - Zos can do anything they want.
If you think that CAN'T do anything they want, I think you are just being silly.
IMHO
You think changing the whole trader system would be a "Up-Date"???
ROFLMAO!
It would be millions of coding changes. It would be a total rework of base game mechanics.
They cant even get GF coded right, and you think they can just flip a switch and, TaDa, We have a GAH? Lol!!!
Once again, lets review GAH....
1. GM's DO NOT GET RICH running a guild. Most spend millions of their own gold to support it!
2. A GAH can not remove almost a BILLION in gold a WEEK in a gold sink! A good gold sink is necessary for a good economy. Period!
3. GAH is easy to manipulate and corner. Any one who disagrees, I challenge you to corner the "Ta" market. Travel to ALL 200+ vendors, buy ALL "Ta's", Log screens and zone screens and travel time, and then......... You can only sell in 5 guilds or zone chat. Can't be done.
4. Wow has what, a 100 shards? ESO has ONE server per platform. Imagine EVERYONE in ESO listing on a GAH? That is what , 1-2 million listings? All being accessed by 100,000 players at once, all zones, all players? Not a happy image....
5. The last one, ZoS has stated that this is the system they wanted. Yes it needs improvements, but no, it does not need to be not replaced.
I personally love the system. My best trade guild has been here since April 2014, and never charged a shilling. None of my guilds "Require" a single copper. Just my 2 drakes! Huzzah!
TLDR: To think ZoS can just "ADD" a GAH with a update is just being silly!!!Edited by wenchmore420b14_ESO on November 17, 2019 7:29AMDrakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
"Not All Who Wander are Lost"
#MOREHOUSINGSLOTS“When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”
_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)3 -
Milo✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »Oh great another Auctionhouse thread. Awesome!
First off, MAYBE if you would have an auctionhouse at the start then PERHAPS, it would be better for the average player.
But to swtich now? This is just not possible. Not without a SIGNIFICANT goldsink.
But to be honest, i have never seen a more healthy economy than the ESO one. There is no inflation whatsoever, prices of some items do even deflate. And people literally PAY for the option to have a trader. Sure, some people make profit of the tradingguilds, but there are also guys, who just farm or trade or something, JUST to have a trader for their Guild.
ESO has a FULL community just for trading. Not to mention that if you would be thrown in the world, an auctionhouse wouldnt make sense (i know that some people ignore the roleplay part of the game, but for others its REALLY important)
Also, it helps to keep the cities "busy". You can think of it what you want. But the trading system is one of the reasons so many people run around in Eldenroot, Wayrest, Rawl etc.
Thats also the reason why we dont have the option to do crafting daylies in our house. The game would just be empty.
I know there will always be diffrent opnions. Some people like the system some don't.
But you cannot seriously think that you can just copy paste a auctionhouse in this game, without breaking the whole economy apart. Not to mention that you would KILL a whole "subcommunity", however small you think it is.
It's part of the game. You cannot just change it.
Sure you can.
It called an Update. Some of us are familiar with them. Perhaps you never have been through one. Its when things that worked one way for a long time suddenly are gone. Something different took their place.
The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.
Bottom line - Zos can do anything they want.
If you think that CAN'T do anything they want, I think you are just being silly.
IMHO
Okay, i get that. That probably came out wrong. I rephrase.
They can't do it, so easily like the guys in this post think, not without majorly changing one of the fundamentals of the game.
Sure they could. But its not just a copy paste thing, as some people think.1 -
Milo✭✭✭wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Oh great another Auctionhouse thread. Awesome!
I know there will always be diffrent opnions. Some people like the system some don't.
But you cannot seriously think that you can just copy paste a auctionhouse in this game, without breaking the whole economy apart. Not to mention that you would KILL a whole "subcommunity", however small you think it is.
It's part of the game. You cannot just change it.
Sure you can.
It called an Update. Some of us are familiar with them. Perhaps you never have been through one. Its when things that worked one way for a long time suddenly are gone. Something different took their place.
The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.
Bottom line - Zos can do anything they want.
If you think that CAN'T do anything they want, I think you are just being silly.
IMHO
You think changing the whole trader system would be a "Up-Date"???
ROFLMAO!
It would be millions of coding changes. It would be a total rework of base game mechanics.
They cant even get GF coded right, and you think they can just flip a switch and, TaDa, We have a GAH? Lol!!!
Once again, lets review GAH....
1. GM's DO NOT GET RICH running a guild. Most spend millions of their own gold to support it!
2. A GAH can not remove almost a BILLION in gold a WEEK in a gold sink! A good gold sink is necessary for a good economy. Period!
3. GAH is easy to manipulate and corner. Any one who disagrees, I challenge you to corner the "Ta" market. Travel to ALL 200+ vendors, buy ALL "Ta's", Log screens and zone screens and travel time, and then......... You can only sell in 5 guilds or zone chat. Can't be done.
4. Wow has what, a 100 shards? ESO has ONE server per platform. Imagine EVERYONE in ESO listing on a GAH? That is what , 1-2 million listings? All being accessed by 100,000 players at once, all zones, all players? Not a happy image....
5. The last one, ZoS has stated that this is the system they wanted. Yes it needs improvements, but no, it does not need to be not replaced.
I personally love the system. My best trade guild has been here since April 2014, and never charged a shilling. None of my guilds "Require" a single copper. Just my 2 drakes! Huzzah!
TLDR: To think ZoS can just "ADD" a GAH with a update is just being silly!!!
I hate to do this, because this may be adding fire to the fuel of the guys an gAH is a good idea but...
A gAH could remove that much gold. All depends on the taxes they charge. If you make a new game in a new economy, yeah you could do it with like 10% or something.
But to change now, is just not feasable. You would need to go for alot higher taxes.
A possibility would be a gAH alongside the trader system, with MUCH higher taxes. That way you would pay for the opportunity to sell there.
But if you would get rid of the system we have now, you would break MUCH MUCH more that you would fix.1 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Oh great another Auctionhouse thread. Awesome!
I know there will always be diffrent opnions. Some people like the system some don't.
But you cannot seriously think that you can just copy paste a auctionhouse in this game, without breaking the whole economy apart. Not to mention that you would KILL a whole "subcommunity", however small you think it is.
It's part of the game. You cannot just change it.
Sure you can.
It called an Update. Some of us are familiar with them. Perhaps you never have been through one. Its when things that worked one way for a long time suddenly are gone. Something different took their place.
The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.
Bottom line - Zos can do anything they want.
If you think that CAN'T do anything they want, I think you are just being silly.
IMHO
You think changing the whole trader system would be a "Up-Date"???
ROFLMAO!
It would be millions of coding changes. It would be a total rework of base game mechanics.
They cant even get GF coded right, and you think they can just flip a switch and, TaDa, We have a GAH? Lol!!!
Once again, lets review GAH....
1. GM's DO NOT GET RICH running a guild. Most spend millions of their own gold to support it!
2. A GAH can not remove almost a BILLION in gold a WEEK in a gold sink! A good gold sink is necessary for a good economy. Period!
3. GAH is easy to manipulate and corner. Any one who disagrees, I challenge you to corner the "Ta" market. Travel to ALL 200+ vendors, buy ALL "Ta's", Log screens and zone screens and travel time, and then......... You can only sell in 5 guilds or zone chat. Can't be done.
4. Wow has what, a 100 shards? ESO has ONE server per platform. Imagine EVERYONE in ESO listing on a GAH? That is what , 1-2 million listings? All being accessed by 100,000 players at once, all zones, all players? Not a happy image....
5. The last one, ZoS has stated that this is the system they wanted. Yes it needs improvements, but no, it does not need to be not replaced.
I personally love the system. My best trade guild has been here since April 2014, and never charged a shilling. None of my guilds "Require" a single copper. Just my 2 drakes! Huzzah!
TLDR: To think ZoS can just "ADD" a GAH with a update is just being silly!!!
No one's asking for them to just slap a GAH in and hope for the best. We know it would take time. You said it yourself that the Trader system isn't perfect. This thread clearly has tons of examples.
GMs don't get rich running a guild. The guild gets rich, and the GM has to save that money so they can guarantee a good spot for the guild. Guilds that aren't rich have to hope they get lucky and get a decent spot each week. And often times they get no spot. That's a whole week with no sales. Congrats on your guild always maintaining a good spot and not charging. They must be pretty loaded.
A GAH can remove however much it needs to remove. Its called listing fees and taxes. And the more people use the Global trader the more money is taken out of the economy, and the less control a few people have over others. And the less people can scam.
I've already discussed bots and cornering, a Global Trader can have safeguards against that, and trader fees would already prevent most of it.
There'd be more than one location for the global trader, probably the same spots that currently exist. Only they offer a lot more to sell than they do now. No one has to all congregate in the same spot. And they would have more listings shown but with proper indexing and a cooldown on searches and processing they could handle it well enough. No one needs infinite listings, just do 30 each. Yeah, it'll be a massive project to have everything available, but outside of searching you can just show the last 15 things listed.
Lastly, I see a lot of PC players here saying "My guild has never charged a thing" when in fact they use sales to determine if someone can stay in the guild, an option that is an add-on and not available to console players. Another thing is the add ons that let them search against everyone using it, to determine if something is available and how much it costs. They dont have to go trader to trader to see pricing, or to find something.. back in the day we didn't even have searching! My point is that however rosey you think the system is, there's a lot of people out there who aren't selling, or having to stress out just to find a decent spot, or have to charge 20k a week just for a good spot, or have to deal with inter-guild drama when they fight over the good spots each week.
2 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Okay, im sorry. My entire point is done and dusted, because i made an error in my second language. I go hide in my cave! Thanks!
Who said anything about your point being negated? I simply replied in the manner i was addressed. Incidentally, to clarify, I simply prefer a system similar to WOW's, where other players are not involved directly in what you sell.
Now I will go back to my dreaming, and you can go back to your cave.
Other players dont have any involvement in what you sell though.
You have to sell through a players guild (if not selling in chat etc) so to my mind, they are directly involved.
Cool, well that's your mind.
In reality other players have 0 to do with what you sell. Does this also work in real life too? If you sell something on Amazon or Ebay do other people get to dictate what you sell? No. Same thing.
If I was you I'd put my brain power to other things that I at least understand.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »EternalDiva wrote: »Global auction house
1) buyers and sellers only as limited as the realm (or server) you are playing on. Potentially hundreds or thousands of players.
2) auction houses are located in every city and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No hoping from city to city, or down beaten path to find what you need.
3) The auction house does take a small fee for items sold on auction house. But you do not pay anyone else for access.
4) prices are governed by competition. Just as with a trader, if the item is limited the price may be jacked out of proportion and only the wealthiest players can afford it. On the other hand, more often, the more sellers you have the better the prices.
5) because you have access to more buyers and sellers its easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create
ESO trading system
1) Limited to 5 guilds for a total of 2500 players to buy and sell from.
2) most guilds demand 150K per week to be a member. You are spending with no guarantee of getting your moneys worth. The guild owner reels in the profits.
3) guild trader also charges a fee per item
4) you will have to travel a LOT if you are looking for something that your limited 5 guilds isnt selling.
5) with less buyers your options for selling usually are not be as good as it is with a global auction house.
6) because access to buyers is limited the items generally sell for higher prices
I have used both systems for years. The global auction house is better by far. T
What I like about the global auction house THE most is that there is no highway robbery from your guild. If you belong to a guild it's about game play. Whether you stay in the guild or get kicked --it is about your game play and attitude toward others. Not about the money the guild owner wants you to provide so that they can make a profit off you.
ESO is a great game. But the trading system only works for the few. Too much like capitalism.
Id also like ESO to stop closing down legitimate conversations about this when one person gets nasty. Delete the nasty person from the thread. Don't shut down the rest of us. Because it kinda looks like you just don't want to hear a different opinion when you do that. Especially when the convo really wasn't contentious at all. Its kind of like the bully yells at the kid chatting amiably to shut up. Then instead of making the bully go away you just shush everyone. Bully wins every time.
You might not want an auction house dear ESO. But you should at least be willing to let us talk about it. And listen to what we are saying. There is nothing to be afraid of. And everything to be gained by LISTENING.
Love you!
P.s to those of you who feel threatened by people talking about auction houses or you are just "so sick of hearing about it"...stop reading things you do not like. Go away. Play your game. Leave those who do want to talk about it alone. Don't be that troll. You know that troll? The one who has no life and goes around looking for people to be rude to. If you dont like the topic go find one you do. Or make up your own!
Usually the only people who defend the current system are those who use addons to make the system operate more like a global market/auction house.
What they should really do is shut down such addons or incorporate them into the base game (my preferred solution) That way everyone would at least be on the same page and we could stop having a silly debate where one side keeps defending a inadequate system even though they are passively admitting is significantly flawed due to the fact the are supplementing it with addons.
I dont defend the existing system because of addons. I defend it because it provides a massive gold sink to the economy, a global trader would be a drain on the servers (until improved), and it would require an economic reset to implement.
If they were to incorporate these addons that everyone (or nearly everyone) uses on PC to make the guild trader system more palatable, the gold sink aspect of it would remain the same. So I can respect that your stance is neutral in regards to these addons. But it still doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the people satisfied with the current guild trader system rely on addons to make it satisfactory. I was highlighting how the indifference to that fact often goes unsaid in these debates and leads to a rift between players where there probably shouldn't be one.
In other words: I was trying to suggest if it wasn't for these addons being thrown into the mix there would be a lot more agreement between players as to their contentment with the current guild trader system or lack there of. If that makes any sense.
I have played since this game was launched and have always been satisfied with the guild traders. That goes well before I ever found any addon related to their use. The first addon I found was one that helped with searching a particular guild trader and that was really nice to have.
I liked it being decentralized and that it was not using the same stale model that many MMORPGs have used. So it is not because of the addons you speak of that are the reason I am content with the current system. I think it is unwise to put words into the mounts of others, especially guessing at the motives of the majority.0 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's telling when one side of the argument resorts to insulting the other. It happens in every single one of these threads and it always seems to be the same side that does it.0 -
LadySinflower✭✭✭✭✭I don't know about any of you, but I am certainly not in any guilds "I don't want to be" "out of necessity." Not only that, but there are more guilds than "Traders" and "RPers." The guilds I'm in have traders, but they are also very social. Activities are planned every day that benefit low and high level players. Our GMs and officers are wealthy, but they were wealthy before they ran guilds. The guild is not their source of income and they often pitch in their own funds to make up for shortcomings. If you've had bad experiences with guilds it's up to you to get away from them and find a good one. There are a lot of good ones out there. And finally, none of the ten guilds I belong to (over two accounts) charge 150k in dues per week. The highest priced one is 20k a week because it has a prime spot in Mournhold that sniper guilds love to go after. We were losing our trader every other week until the dues were raised. I can't think of any spot in the game worth 150k/week in dues. That's laughable. Anyway, my point in making this post is, before you start generalizing and making blanket statements, you should do some research on the subjects you're generalizing about.4 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭barney2525 wrote: »I say leave the Traders AND ADD a GAH.
That would undermine the traders and cause a complete and total market crash. But I suspect you know this and that you are in fact counting on it.
You are speculating a thinking of a worse case scenario. You are not even making any considerations on any other economic changes at the same time to handle said changes. You are merely throwing out a fear statement without backing it up.1 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭barney2525 wrote: »The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.
It's not really a sticking point. Not all guilds run the same by the guild masters, but they all are formed the same. A player decides they want to create a guild and is placed as the owner of the guild. By the rules in place that ZOS has done, nothing states that a guild is communal property. As I stated, not all guilds are ran the same but do not expect ZOS to step in an arbitrate.
Announcement would come as it showing up on a PTS. Prior to it should be the introduction of additional gold sinks into the game to assist in re-balancing how they currently have them set up. Whether a GAH is introduced or not, the gold sinks in the game needs to be addressed and re-balanced.
1 -
Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »Greetings! We've removed some posts from this thread. Be sure when posting to keep the forums a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.
Roger that!Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.0 -
kaisernick✭✭✭✭✭As a newerish player, frankly I dislike this concept of trade guilds massively.
From what I see there is l iterally only 2 types of guides:
1) Trade guilds who don't talk but require a set amount of sales per week.
or
2) Hardcore RP guilds.
That appears to be it. As a newer player I don't, and can't, post anything to anything near the zones I'm at. I don't know the world or where to look so I don't buy either. I'd venture to say 80% of the entire game playerbase completely ignores traders entirely.
I mean sure it's great for the few people that enjoy trading. But most hate it.
Why not both system? Somewhere easy to get to and linked for newer players and people who don't care, but traders for people who want bargain hunting and reposting.
That isnt entirly true there are a few guilds who do have any sales quotas the trade guild i am in (whispering fang bizare) has no quota all they require is that yousell or buy stuff in the guild which doesnt seem to be a bad reason as it is a trade guild after all and they are not alone in this i have seen many adverts from trade guild who have no quota.
The system isnt perfect as a more intregrated system to track items would be better as TTC is useful but has limitations the biggest one being the list doesnt update if the items is removed or sold right away.
But its far better than a global one most game i have seen with such end up having areas that are always flooded and regions devoid of life, this system at least encourages people to move around the world.0 -
TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Okay, im sorry. My entire point is done and dusted, because i made an error in my second language. I go hide in my cave! Thanks!
Who said anything about your point being negated? I simply replied in the manner i was addressed. Incidentally, to clarify, I simply prefer a system similar to WOW's, where other players are not involved directly in what you sell.
Now I will go back to my dreaming, and you can go back to your cave.
Other players dont have any involvement in what you sell though.
You have to sell through a players guild (if not selling in chat etc) so to my mind, they are directly involved.
Cool, well that's your mind.
In reality other players have 0 to do with what you sell. Does this also work in real life too? If you sell something on Amazon or Ebay do other people get to dictate what you sell? No. Same thing.
If I was you I'd put my brain power to other things that I at least understand.
If I were you I would avoid using pathetic real world analogies drawn from a false assumption, and use your brain power for things that you at least understand, like the two times table perhaps?
Other posters have understood and agreed my point, maybe you should read it again. If you still don’t like my preference, well you know what you can do.
Edited by TheTwistedRune on November 18, 2019 2:30PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »The only sticking point would be what to do with the gold and items left over from the guild. There would be options. More realistically they would announce ahead of time a GAH was being introduced a month or more ahead of time and guilds would deal with it.
It's not really a sticking point. Not all guilds run the same by the guild masters, but they all are formed the same. A player decides they want to create a guild and is placed as the owner of the guild. By the rules in place that ZOS has done, nothing states that a guild is communal property. As I stated, not all guilds are ran the same but do not expect ZOS to step in an arbitrate.
Announcement would come as it showing up on a PTS. Prior to it should be the introduction of additional gold sinks into the game to assist in re-balancing how they currently have them set up. Whether a GAH is introduced or not, the gold sinks in the game needs to be addressed and re-balanced.
I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.1 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game. I would bet real money that there are many more people not using the trader system than are.
Zos seems content? They posted years ago that they were happy with the trader system. That doesn't mean anything today and it wont mean anything 6 months down the line.
And lastly, the latest event, I used the group finder and got my daily tickets and rewards. Does that mean the group finder is working perfectly, ZOS is content with it, and it should never change?3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »I do not think we have to worry about any of this as it is extremely unlikely that Zos would make such significant changes to a system that is serving the intended purpose. Zos seems content with this system and hundreds of millions of gold trade hands daily demonstrating it works.
The system is not working for the majority of people who play the game. I would bet real money that there are many more people not using the trader system than are.
Zos seems content? They posted years ago that they were happy with the trader system. That doesn't mean anything today and it wont mean anything 6 months down the line.
And lastly, the latest event, I used the group finder and got my daily tickets and rewards. Does that mean the group finder is working perfectly, ZOS is content with it, and it should never change?
That's a sucker bet. Even in a GAH, there are many more people who don't use the trading system than do.2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Please consider that these forums are international and not everyone has mastered the english language. No need to be rude over bad grammar.3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Please consider that these forums are international and not everyone has mastered the english language. No need to be rude over bad grammar.
Bonus points in that the issue is conjugation, which is easily the most finicky part of English.1 -
I think the beginning of the problems are starting to show with a guild trader system, especially since the bidding fiasco.
My trade guild used to be very active, but is now a lot quieter. Coupled to that is the fact they have missed a slot for the guild trader for 3 of the last four weeks, so sales have disappeared (but they still seem to want the 5k weekly sub). I think the leaders are just not playing so much. This is a vicious spiral as less and less people list in the guild it becomes less likely that people visit and hence less sales and less listings as people more to a 'better' guild.
This is similar to what many trade guilds are now experiencing.
What will happen is more and more players will have to start moving guilds in order to find ones that are active and have a trader with sufficient varied stock so it attracts custom.
A global AH does not experience these issues.2