Global auction house verses limited traders

Varana · November 2019

It's not "more than they're worth". It's their price. Welcome to capitalism.

buttaface · November 2019

Didn't read thread, but can tell what's in it without reading it. Insincere armchair jr. college economists are posting moronic, out of context claims of "AH bad" that -always- posture in bad faith against a full unregulated, uncapped AH instead of a limited one and also omit necessary context such as the fact that the game publisher has 100% control of the amount of game currency, 100% control of loot tables and item drop rates, or attempt to introduce red herrings ala "but in that other game..."

These people would be idiots if they were sincere, but they aren't. They are protecting their "angle" of flipping items for gain that sane people refuse to spend time in a game doing for play money. Not idiots, just plain dishonest.

Also, probably some stale "beating dead horse" memes in the thread at this point, if not there will be soon.

ESO trading functionality is complete ***. Load screen after load after load, zoning, the traders themselves with their own load screens. The unaugmented search functionality sucks out loud.

The system is the way it is for publisher benefit, not player benefit. Gives the illusion of more activity in the game, creates yet another time sink MMOs are famous for to keep you in the store longer, indirectly promotes crown store purchases by players who get fed up with using the broken *** system to get the things they need and just buy them with real $$.

buttaface · November 2019

pelle412 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

That subculture has pros and cons. I've heard tails of constant harassment and bullying due to trade spot stealing. The cultural aspects are overrated and deserve to be destroyed.

I've heard the same about many other aspects of the game. Lets destroy those too. If you heard it, it must be true and pervasive, right?

"Destroy a subculture" what a joke. It's not some endangered, noble subspecies of white tiger.

Once again, flippers posture only against a completely unregulated, no-cap global AH, where in fact there are NUMEROUS ways to have a limited central trading functionality available to all players, unlike now, in which the two systems could exist side by side. Just off the top of my head, the central functionality could be limited to only a few items per account, five or so, and those items would have shorter listing, say 1-5 days. Serious traders would still use the guild traders, no markets could be "cornered" under such a system, and the "subculture" of players who are currently EXCLUDED from the crappy status quo system could have some access to trading. All players would then have more -choices- available for buying and selling in game things.

buttaface · November 2019

preevious wrote: »

There's a bit of jealousy at work here, I think..

Objectively, this system allow for common items to be found as easily as in a global AH.
It's actually the same for rare items, because in a global AH, they'll go almost instantly and you'll have trouble finding one.

"Objectively" ROFL, what a crock. There is nothing whatsoever "easy" about using the extant trading system, will be very charitable and say the above is just an outrageously inaccurate statement rather than what it so plainly is.

And the jealousy stuff? just stop, I'm a top trader in a top guild who makes millions a week off ESO's *** trading system. Bad is bad though, and some of us are capable of honesty.

MartiniDaniels · November 2019

^
Zone chat is full with invitations from trading guilds, if you don't use them, it's your own problem. I joined ESO as solo player and was picked up by trading guild when I was cp200 or such. We completed all veteran trials, PVP together, GH has all the mundus stones, furniture exposition, all set crafting stations etc, and I was selling everything I don't need all time with very moderate trading requirements. Game have all the tools for trading, especially on PC. If you don't use them, you are simply lazy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tatanko · November 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

But exploiting crafters to the point where they can only sell their wares below cost is ok, right?

This kind of mentality (that you were replying to) is exactly why I can't be bothered to craft for most people, and I'm sure I am not alone. Crafting a full loadout of equipment takes time even when you know exactly what you want to make, and add to that most people who are asking typically want to play 21 questions just so you can get all the information you need to begin. Selling for the cost of materials isn't simply not worth it, it's robbery. The only crafted equipment I sell on the open market is nirnhoned armor, and only when I can buy fortified nirncrux cheaply enough to make a small profit.

buttaface wrote: »

And the jealousy stuff? just stop, I'm a top trader in a top guild who makes millions a week off ESO's *** trading system.

Ok there, guy. If that's the case, why do you keep talking about flipping as though that's the only reason anyone wants the current system? Is it possible that *gasp* we aren't flipping items but like the current system anyway?

wolfie1.0. · November 2019

Tbh we can discuss the merits of both systems all day. And both systems CAN work. Though I have my doubts that the can coexist and still be effective. Either way ZOS would have to do some serious revamping to make it work and they would have to fix the servers.

To be honest I think it would be more effective just to add more trader locations. And reduce the number of people needed in a guild to open a store. The economy currently has room for more participation though I have a small guild that I run on alt account and I picked up a trader stall for less than 100k, I'm at 150% profits at the moment.

svartorn · November 2019

I really wish there was a global auction system. Going from stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall trying to find the item I want is really annoying.

Drachenfier · November 2019

Varana wrote: »

It's not "more than they're worth". It's their price. Welcome to capitalism.

Prices fluctuate, they are not a given. You can't decide what the price of something is based on what you feel it should be, unless you're able to do so without competition, which is what we have now. People will only undercut until they can no longer make a profit, at which point a price will stabilize.

Contaminate · November 2019

svartorn wrote: »

I really wish there was a global auction system. Going from stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall trying to find the item I want is really annoying.

Unless you’re looking for something that appears once in a blue moon, you only have to stall hope if you’re looking for the lowest possible prices, rather than just the first reasonable ones.

wolfie1.0. · November 2019

svartorn wrote: »

I really wish there was a global auction system. Going from stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall, to stall trying to find the item I want is really annoying.

You do realize that you could just go farm said item instead right?

Bealeb319 · November 2019

What a new and refreshing idea. I haven't seen a thread like this since last month.

buttaface · November 2019

Tatanko wrote: »

Ok there, guy. If that's the case, why do you keep talking about flipping as though that's the only reason anyone wants the current system? Is it possible that *gasp* we aren't flipping items but like the current system anyway?

1. Nonresponsive non sequitur, but arguendo...
2. This isn't my first rodeo or game with this issue. It's ALWAYS the flippers who come in with the penny ante rationalizations of keeping the status quo that keeps them making lots of play money. There are no compelling reasons for a game to have as bad a trading functionality as ESO has otherwise. Or rather, I'm all ears, LIST SOME reasons why the trading system is good that aren't full of hogwash like "subculture," "traveling around Tamriel is good" or the same old same old "AH bad because AH bad" circularities and erstwhile economic fallacies.
3. Then, please do explain exactly how any meager weight of those "plus" things outweighs the immense hassle of the casual player base at large as to only being able to trade stuff through guild traders instead of listing a few things for a few days per account centrally.

Contaminate · November 2019

buttaface wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Ok there, guy. If that's the case, why do you keep talking about flipping as though that's the only reason anyone wants the current system? Is it possible that *gasp* we aren't flipping items but like the current system anyway?

1. Nonresponsive non sequitur, but arguendo...
2. This isn't my first rodeo or game with this issue. It's ALWAYS the flippers who come in with the penny ante rationalizations of keeping the status quo that keeps them making lots of play money. There are no compelling reasons for a game to have as bad a trading functionality as ESO has otherwise. Or rather, I'm all ears, LIST SOME reasons why the trading system is good that aren't full of hogwash like "subculture," "traveling around Tamriel is good" or the same old same old "AH bad because AH bad" circularities and erstwhile economic fallacies.
3. Then, please do explain exactly how any meager weight of those "plus" things outweighs the immense hassle of the casual player base at large as to only being able to trade stuff through guild traders instead of listing a few things for a few days per account centrally.

You clearly can read, and since all those reasons have been posted far earlier in this thread, go read them

Tatanko · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

3. Then, please do explain exactly how any meager weight of those "plus" things outweighs the immense hassle of the casual player base at large as to only being able to trade stuff through guild traders instead of listing a few things for a few days per account centrally.

You clearly can read, and since all those reasons have been posted far earlier in this thread, go read them

What Contaminate said. Use your eyeballs, I'm not typing it all out again. I'm also not the one making generalizations about every person who holds a particular (shared) opinion.

Drachenfier · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Ok there, guy. If that's the case, why do you keep talking about flipping as though that's the only reason anyone wants the current system? Is it possible that *gasp* we aren't flipping items but like the current system anyway?

1. Nonresponsive non sequitur, but arguendo...
2. This isn't my first rodeo or game with this issue. It's ALWAYS the flippers who come in with the penny ante rationalizations of keeping the status quo that keeps them making lots of play money. There are no compelling reasons for a game to have as bad a trading functionality as ESO has otherwise. Or rather, I'm all ears, LIST SOME reasons why the trading system is good that aren't full of hogwash like "subculture," "traveling around Tamriel is good" or the same old same old "AH bad because AH bad" circularities and erstwhile economic fallacies.
3. Then, please do explain exactly how any meager weight of those "plus" things outweighs the immense hassle of the casual player base at large as to only being able to trade stuff through guild traders instead of listing a few things for a few days per account centrally.

You clearly can read, and since all those reasons have been posted far earlier in this thread, go read them

He did, read number 2. He's asking for actual reasons, not nonsense.

Jeremy · November 2019

EternalDiva wrote: »

Global auction house
1) buyers and sellers only as limited as the realm (or server) you are playing on. Potentially hundreds or thousands of players.
2) auction houses are located in every city and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No hoping from city to city, or down beaten path to find what you need.
3) The auction house does take a small fee for items sold on auction house. But you do not pay anyone else for access.
4) prices are governed by competition. Just as with a trader, if the item is limited the price may be jacked out of proportion and only the wealthiest players can afford it. On the other hand, more often, the more sellers you have the better the prices.
5) because you have access to more buyers and sellers its easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create

ESO trading system
1) Limited to 5 guilds for a total of 2500 players to buy and sell from.
2) most guilds demand 150K per week to be a member. You are spending with no guarantee of getting your moneys worth. The guild owner reels in the profits.
3) guild trader also charges a fee per item
4) you will have to travel a LOT if you are looking for something that your limited 5 guilds isnt selling.
5) with less buyers your options for selling usually are not be as good as it is with a global auction house.
6) because access to buyers is limited the items generally sell for higher prices

I have used both systems for years. The global auction house is better by far. T

What I like about the global auction house THE most is that there is no highway robbery from your guild. If you belong to a guild it's about game play. Whether you stay in the guild or get kicked --it is about your game play and attitude toward others. Not about the money the guild owner wants you to provide so that they can make a profit off you.

ESO is a great game. But the trading system only works for the few. Too much like capitalism.

Id also like ESO to stop closing down legitimate conversations about this when one person gets nasty. Delete the nasty person from the thread. Don't shut down the rest of us. Because it kinda looks like you just don't want to hear a different opinion when you do that. Especially when the convo really wasn't contentious at all. Its kind of like the bully yells at the kid chatting amiably to shut up. Then instead of making the bully go away you just shush everyone. Bully wins every time.

You might not want an auction house dear ESO. But you should at least be willing to let us talk about it. And listen to what we are saying. There is nothing to be afraid of. And everything to be gained by LISTENING.

Love you!

P.s to those of you who feel threatened by people talking about auction houses or you are just "so sick of hearing about it"...stop reading things you do not like. Go away. Play your game. Leave those who do want to talk about it alone. Don't be that troll. You know that troll? The one who has no life and goes around looking for people to be rude to. If you dont like the topic go find one you do. Or make up your own!

Usually the only people who defend the current system are those who use addons to make the system operate more like a global market/auction house.

What they should really do is shut down such addons or incorporate them into the base game (my preferred solution) That way everyone would at least be on the same page and we could stop having a silly debate where one side keeps defending a inadequate system even though they are passively admitting is significantly flawed due to the fact the are supplementing it with addons.

wolfie1.0. · November 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

EternalDiva wrote: »

Global auction house
1) buyers and sellers only as limited as the realm (or server) you are playing on. Potentially hundreds or thousands of players.
2) auction houses are located in every city and the goods can be accessed from anyone of them. No hoping from city to city, or down beaten path to find what you need.
3) The auction house does take a small fee for items sold on auction house. But you do not pay anyone else for access.
4) prices are governed by competition. Just as with a trader, if the item is limited the price may be jacked out of proportion and only the wealthiest players can afford it. On the other hand, more often, the more sellers you have the better the prices.
5) because you have access to more buyers and sellers its easier to find what you need or easily sell what you farm or create

ESO trading system
1) Limited to 5 guilds for a total of 2500 players to buy and sell from.
2) most guilds demand 150K per week to be a member. You are spending with no guarantee of getting your moneys worth. The guild owner reels in the profits.
3) guild trader also charges a fee per item
4) you will have to travel a LOT if you are looking for something that your limited 5 guilds isnt selling.
5) with less buyers your options for selling usually are not be as good as it is with a global auction house.
6) because access to buyers is limited the items generally sell for higher prices

I have used both systems for years. The global auction house is better by far. T

What I like about the global auction house THE most is that there is no highway robbery from your guild. If you belong to a guild it's about game play. Whether you stay in the guild or get kicked --it is about your game play and attitude toward others. Not about the money the guild owner wants you to provide so that they can make a profit off you.

ESO is a great game. But the trading system only works for the few. Too much like capitalism.

Id also like ESO to stop closing down legitimate conversations about this when one person gets nasty. Delete the nasty person from the thread. Don't shut down the rest of us. Because it kinda looks like you just don't want to hear a different opinion when you do that. Especially when the convo really wasn't contentious at all. Its kind of like the bully yells at the kid chatting amiably to shut up. Then instead of making the bully go away you just shush everyone. Bully wins every time.

You might not want an auction house dear ESO. But you should at least be willing to let us talk about it. And listen to what we are saying. There is nothing to be afraid of. And everything to be gained by LISTENING.

Love you!

P.s to those of you who feel threatened by people talking about auction houses or you are just "so sick of hearing about it"...stop reading things you do not like. Go away. Play your game. Leave those who do want to talk about it alone. Don't be that troll. You know that troll? The one who has no life and goes around looking for people to be rude to. If you dont like the topic go find one you do. Or make up your own!

Usually the only people who defend the current system are those who use addons to make the system operate more like a global market/auction house.

What they should really do is shut down such addons or incorporate them into the base game (my preferred solution) That way everyone would at least be on the same page and we could stop having a silly debate where one side keeps defending a inadequate system even though they are passively admitting is significantly flawed due to the fact the are supplementing it with addons.

I dont defend the existing system because of addons. I defend it because it provides a massive gold sink to the economy, a global trader would be a drain on the servers (until improved), and it would require an economic reset to implement.

buttaface · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

You clearly can read, and since all those reasons have been posted far earlier in this thread, go read them

What a hollow reply. Yeah, I've seen ALL the various "protect my play money... erm AH IS BAD" rationale over the years. NONE of it is compelling in light of the awful trading functionality for all in games that don't have at least -some- central trading available to the entire player base.

buttaface · November 2019

"wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I dont defend the existing system because of addons. I defend it because it provides a massive gold sink to the economy, a global trader would be a drain on the servers (until improved), and it would require an economic reset to implement.

Well since the company has absolute 100% control over the amount of game currency, the drop tables, and all fees in the game at the drop of a hat whenever they want, what's your REAL reason? Because you haven't posted a credible one.

buttaface · November 2019

Drachenfier wrote: »

He did, read number 2. He's asking for actual reasons, not nonsense.

It's easy to tell they are full of crap because once the notion of a limited 5 or X item per account, short listing time central trading hub is introduced, it completely obviates all their greed-rationalizing BS that is only ever postured against a fully unregulated, no cap AH... and so they just ignore it and repeat the same BS over and over.

Ri_Khan · November 2019

Tatanko wrote: »

The fact that you think wealth would become more distributed with an auction house is laughable. Anyone defending the current system, myself included, would do just fine with an auction house -- maybe even better -- but we would have less fun doing it. Either way, you would still be poor because you're just lazy, and that wouldn't cease to be true just because the method we use to sell things is different.

Wildly baseless assumptions here. Must've struck a nerve, eh?

Better luck with your 'bating next time, chief.

Contaminate · November 2019

Drachenfier wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Ok there, guy. If that's the case, why do you keep talking about flipping as though that's the only reason anyone wants the current system? Is it possible that *gasp* we aren't flipping items but like the current system anyway?

1. Nonresponsive non sequitur, but arguendo...
2. This isn't my first rodeo or game with this issue. It's ALWAYS the flippers who come in with the penny ante rationalizations of keeping the status quo that keeps them making lots of play money. There are no compelling reasons for a game to have as bad a trading functionality as ESO has otherwise. Or rather, I'm all ears, LIST SOME reasons why the trading system is good that aren't full of hogwash like "subculture," "traveling around Tamriel is good" or the same old same old "AH bad because AH bad" circularities and erstwhile economic fallacies.
3. Then, please do explain exactly how any meager weight of those "plus" things outweighs the immense hassle of the casual player base at large as to only being able to trade stuff through guild traders instead of listing a few things for a few days per account centrally.

You clearly can read, and since all those reasons have been posted far earlier in this thread, go read them

He did, read number 2. He's asking for actual reasons, not nonsense.

He listed what he thinks those “greedy traders” have said. Which they haven’t.

Like I’ve said, he can read. What he chooses to understand from it is his own bias in this case.

Localize all listings into one spot so the system can be easily botted. Make it a free for all where rare items are easily rounded up for flipping and profit. Flood common items into it where nothing common has value beyond vendor pricing, making entry into trading difficult where it’s currently extremely easy.

The same people in favor of a removal of the decentralized system don’t outcry against bots “because they keep prices low”, never mind that they are unfeasible competition for people who actually farm mats to make their gold.

The anti-trader crowd still hasn’t presented any reasonable alternative gold sink to the billions removed from the game each week via guild trader bids. You still haven’t presented a global system that 1) can’t be botted easily and 2) could actually function with the horrendous software design that crashes the game when more than 1000 people try to use the LFG tool . Until you can do that, you have no leg to stand on.

Contaminate · November 2019

buttaface wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

He did, read number 2. He's asking for actual reasons, not nonsense.

It's easy to tell they are full of crap because once the notion of a limited 5 or X item per account, short listing time central trading hub is introduced, it completely obviates all their greed-rationalizing BS that is only ever postured against a fully unregulated, no cap AH... and so they just ignore it and repeat the same BS over and over.

And people would still complain that would be too hard to use. They can’t list enough, the trader tax is too high. It takes too much time to sell lots of stuff.

It wouldn’t be enough because people who want an AH generally want a mostly unregulated AH

MrGhosty · November 2019

Could always just give people the option to list items with non affiliated guild traders and pay double or triple the fee which goes back to the guild who currently owns that trader. If trader ownership swaps before an item is sold, that profit goes to the next guild who takes the crown.

My only real complaint against the current system is that it has to be hard for new guilds who want to be traders to come up when there are only so many spots to go around.

I would personally like to see some of the less popular towns across the world get a little love by way of a trader marketplace added to them, with unified access to all services(i.e. bank/crafting stations/writ board/etc). This lets other hub towns have an equal chance to shine, while not messing with the value that are the main hubs many of these towns have areas not really in use that would be perfect for setting up market stalls to accommodate quite a few traders in one place.

Other games have done AH with success, but I would rather see them polish what they've got than try to poorly imitate another game's system. That doesn't mean this system is without flaws, but we can get more mileage from refinement, not replacement.

PizzaCat82 · November 2019

Contaminate wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Contaminate wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Ok there, guy. If that's the case, why do you keep talking about flipping as though that's the only reason anyone wants the current system? Is it possible that *gasp* we aren't flipping items but like the current system anyway?

1. Nonresponsive non sequitur, but arguendo...
2. This isn't my first rodeo or game with this issue. It's ALWAYS the flippers who come in with the penny ante rationalizations of keeping the status quo that keeps them making lots of play money. There are no compelling reasons for a game to have as bad a trading functionality as ESO has otherwise. Or rather, I'm all ears, LIST SOME reasons why the trading system is good that aren't full of hogwash like "subculture," "traveling around Tamriel is good" or the same old same old "AH bad because AH bad" circularities and erstwhile economic fallacies.
3. Then, please do explain exactly how any meager weight of those "plus" things outweighs the immense hassle of the casual player base at large as to only being able to trade stuff through guild traders instead of listing a few things for a few days per account centrally.

You clearly can read, and since all those reasons have been posted far earlier in this thread, go read them

He did, read number 2. He's asking for actual reasons, not nonsense.

He listed what he thinks those “greedy traders” have said. Which they haven’t.

Like I’ve said, he can read. What he chooses to understand from it is his own bias in this case.

Localize all listings into one spot so the system can be easily botted. Make it a free for all where rare items are easily rounded up for flipping and profit. Flood common items into it where nothing common has value beyond vendor pricing, making entry into trading difficult where it’s currently extremely easy.

The same people in favor of a removal of the decentralized system don’t outcry against bots “because they keep prices low”, never mind that they are unfeasible competition for people who actually farm mats to make their gold.

The anti-trader crowd still hasn’t presented any reasonable alternative gold sink to the billions removed from the game each week via guild trader bids. You still haven’t presented a global system that 1) can’t be botted easily and 2) could actually function with the horrendous software design that crashes the game when more than 1000 people try to use the LFG tool . Until you can do that, you have no leg to stand on.

1. Higher trading fees to list and sell.
2. Bots on PC can have captcha's to post anything (something simple at first, but complex if bots override it)
3. ZOS can design a system that doesn't list all items at once, we have a page system already and wont need to show the whole selection.. might take longer to show the list but shouldn't be too much longer than it is already.

Glurin · November 2019

Drachenfier wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

It's not "more than they're worth". It's their price. Welcome to capitalism.

Prices fluctuate, they are not a given. You can't decide what the price of something is based on what you feel it should be, unless you're able to do so without competition, which is what we have now.

Bull. Just because you can't see every single available item up for sale in real time doesn't mean that there is no competition. There's hundreds of guild traders out there, each with potentially hundreds of sellers, and both the seller and the guild want you to buy from them. What incentive is there for them to dramatically overprice their goods when you can simply *gasp* go to a different trader?

Drachenfier wrote: »

People will only undercut until they can no longer make a profit, at which point a price will stabilize.

In other words, they undercut until the item is worthless. Thanks for acknowledging that.

The guild traders by their diversified nature allow you to price items for what you think is a fair price. Not at the lowest possible price in the entire world. While at the same time you pray someone buys it before you yourself are undercut and can no longer make even the smallest profit.

You need to step out of the AH mentality that you're being ripped off if you can't buy something at the absolute rock bottom of the market at any given time.

starkerealm · November 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

Dagobert wrote: »

4, trader guilds are handled by players who also could just go MIA, got bored of the game, have a breakdown, guild drama, whatever, which could screw you over

I've had one trade guild that sort of died because the GM went MIA. For the other one, when the original GM got tired of playing, he passed on the reins to a group of officers and they have been doing a fine job since.

My trade guild's on it's third leader since I signed on. They've all done fine jobs, but it is work. So long as your GM is at least somewhat considerate of the players in the guild, this isn't much of an issue.

That said, I have had two or three trade guilds over the years where a leader just up and vanished without establishing a chain of command.

If the guild survives 30 days without a leader, you can petition customer support to pass leadership on to the next in line. (Though, the last time I used this system, they passed leadership to a junior member who was first alphabetically, though Customer Support did eventually clean that up.)

kargen27 · November 2019

buttaface wrote: »

Tatanko wrote: »

Ok there, guy. If that's the case, why do you keep talking about flipping as though that's the only reason anyone wants the current system? Is it possible that *gasp* we aren't flipping items but like the current system anyway?

1. Nonresponsive non sequitur, but arguendo...
2. This isn't my first rodeo or game with this issue. It's ALWAYS the flippers who come in with the penny ante rationalizations of keeping the status quo that keeps them making lots of play money. There are no compelling reasons for a game to have as bad a trading functionality as ESO has otherwise. Or rather, I'm all ears, LIST SOME reasons why the trading system is good that aren't full of hogwash like "subculture," "traveling around Tamriel is good" or the same old same old "AH bad because AH bad" circularities and erstwhile economic fallacies.
3. Then, please do explain exactly how any meager weight of those "plus" things outweighs the immense hassle of the casual player base at large as to only being able to trade stuff through guild traders instead of listing a few things for a few days per account centrally.

I'm guessing you have never been to a rodeo because you think it is just robots fighting each other and that isn't your thing. Oh and even though you have never been to a rodeo you insult anyone who has because hey... it's your thing.

That is how your posts read.

Anotherone773 · November 2019

Disclaimer: I only read the OP. So...

Global auction house..

Global auction houses are like Walmart and Amazon. They drive down prices to the point where everyone quits but Walmart and Amazon. Except in this case they quit the game. I have yet to find a game with a useful global auction house. In games they are in they tend to be pretty much useless. People tend not to use them because it never has anything you want anyway.

The only game ive seen with a healthier trading system than this one is Eve Online and it is also local based but it has better features for searching. half the population or better are traders in this game.

ESO trading system
1) Limited to 5 guilds for a total of 2500 players to buy and sell from.
2) most guilds demand 150K per week to be a member. You are spending with no guarantee of getting your moneys worth. The guild owner reels in the profits.
3) guild trader also charges a fee per item
4) you will have to travel a LOT if you are looking for something that your limited 5 guilds isnt selling.
5) with less buyers your options for selling usually are not be as good as it is with a global auction house.
6) because access to buyers is limited the items generally sell for higher prices

1) No with a single trader you are limited to everyone on the server. Why would you be in a trading guild without a trader? Thats silly.
2) WOW! HOLY COW BATMAN! You pay 150k a week to be in a trade guild that doesnt even have a trader? You are getting a major fleecing. I am in 3 trade guilds in 2 high traffic and 1 low traffic towns. I pay ZERO fees outside of the standard tax collected automatically by the game.
3) Yes as is normal in all games with a trading system.
4) Or your could just use TTC like everyone else? I mean you cant on console...but you get what you pay for.
5) actually its far better because this trading system is used 100x more than an AH system. I can usually turn over my inventory on a trader at market prices in less than 48 hours on a good trader and 72 hours on a less trafficked trader.
6) Its only limited if you dont know how to use the system. Things selling for higher prices is a good thing. it means more people will farm them and prices will drop. Its called supply and demand.

What I like about the global auction house THE most is that there is no highway robbery from your guild.

Your guild leader is fleecing you, so instead of changing guilds you want the entire game to change to suit a trading system you understand better?

ESO is a great game. But the trading system only works for the few. Too much like capitalism.

Actually it works for everyone. ESO has a very healthy player driven economy. The only game with a better player economy is Eve.

You might not want an auction house dear ESO. But you should at least be willing to let us talk about it. And listen to what we are saying. There is nothing to be afraid of. And everything to be gained by LISTENING.

Its been talked to death. If you used the search function you would know it comes up quite often almost always by someone who is either to lazy to understand the trading system or simply cannot understand the trading system and then declares we should change the entire game because they dont get it.

You are calling people a troll if they disagree with you, but the regulars on this forum would say you are the one trolling/baiting. You post an inflammatory thread that shows you obviously have no clue how to use the guild trading system but demand we change it to a much more useless AH system,despite this being a bi weekly thread at bare minimum, with the same exact results. A majority of players like this system. It needs some improvements, sure. Why do we have to have 6 traders at one location? Why cant we have 2 traders with 5 guilds at each trader? Why are traders so limited? Plenty of wayshrines if we dont want them to be to close together.

The system could use improving but not replaced. If it was ever switched to a global AH system i would likely quit and go back to Eve because trading is one of my favorite in game activities. I know quite a few people who also likely quit as they are more hardcore than me with trading.

Learn to use the trading system and find a real trade guild. It should not cost you more than 10k week out of pocket/in taxes for 95% of trader locations in the game and their are a lot of guilds that are free as long as your active.