Why are players dropping like flies?
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Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »I'd like to point out to everyone saying that they're seeing lots of players in-game still, you have absolutely no idea how many instances there are so it's really not a good way of judging population.
Are chats instanced too?
Because I play every day in a certain region (one of the earliest DLCs released) and every day I LF the same world bosses.
Since about 6 months ago, after years of constant feedback, I am getting a lot less people joining, sharing dailies and so on.
If zone chat is not instanced, then it's an indication of a decline in numbers.
As far as I can tell, Zone chat is instanced. Though, honestly, it's actually pretty difficult to be sure.
Zone chat is not instanced. You can have someone call out for you to join a group then you get a message to ask if you would like to change to the group leaders zone. This used to be a common experience when forming up to group but it is pretty rare these days.4 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Cicero's rhetoric teaches us that "True speaker is one who knows how to treat humble subjects with simple language, elevated ones with solemn language, medium ones with moderate language."
Saloon bar discourse is completely appropriate here.
Not sure what Cicero has to do with the saloon bar. He was more about politic discourse in civil society.
Here (the UK) the saloon bar discourse is typified by drunken pig-ignorance masking itself as intelligent discourse and being belligerently opposed to any contrary argument or fact.3 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭My guild left a couple of patches ago when they added cast times to ultimates, and buffed DoTs. PvE has never been a problem for us so we never cared if our dps went down (it has always been too good). However we're primarily PvPers so when they watered down the combat and dramatically lowered the skill ceiling we left for BDO. I'm the only one that occasionally checks the forums to see what the situation looks like over here. Still doesn't look good.
I play MMOs since 2001 and I have seen a number become famous, then wither down and close.
In the MMOs that went down:- majority did not really care. They just went to play something else.
- people who really cared, were called "naysayers", "Cassandras", "whiners". They were banned, suspended, pointed and laughed at.
- MMO affiliated Youtubers kept selling the snake oil until the last drop was gone. Most often, a Youtuber or Twitcher are stongly dependent on only one MMO, therefore they push it until it's over.
- There are many shills, white knights and developers alts roaming forums and social media. They provide constant "crowd control" and take down whoever dissents.
The result is always the same: one day, suddenly, there's an announcement that the MMO is going to shutdown on Dec 31th.
The Cassandras were right and they were the only ones who really cared for the MMO. There'll be little to rejoyce when they learn they were right and, even then, nobody will care.
Then you have the case of a very successful mmo that did a surprise New Game Engine days after a new expansion which changed and dumbed down the game so much, servers became ghost towns within days. Sure they pushed on by drastically reducing the number of servers but never really recovered and closed down when the service contracts ran out.
TV has it's Jumped The Shark moments, mmo's have it's NGE debacle.1 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Cicero's rhetoric teaches us that "True speaker is one who knows how to treat humble subjects with simple language, elevated ones with solemn language, medium ones with moderate language."
Saloon bar discourse is completely appropriate here.
Not sure what Cicero has to do with the saloon bar. He was more about politic discourse in civil society.
Here (the UK) the saloon bar discourse is typified by drunken pig-ignorance masking itself as intelligent discourse and being belligerently opposed to any contrary argument or fact.
You rarely, if ever, convince anyone past 18 old with arguments. The most effective course of action is to destroy their arguments down to cinder and steamroll over them, while building support from other people.
Even when not willing to be that destructive, I am not going to get such passive-aggressive counters to me explaining multiple years knowledge of an area. When I see that attitude, I turn on the steamroller.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
IwakuraLain42✭✭✭✭✭When a game no longer values it's long time customers and shifts to casual players, the end is near. They are, IMO, in "rake in as much cash as possible" mode.
i would argue that eso's fans are mostly elder scrolls players and thus most of its long term players are likely also casual players. Hardcore does not necessarily equal longtime. The recent hardcore exodus didnt kill the game.
they have always been in rake in as much cash as possible mode.
Pretty much so. The only reason the game is still online is the fact that Zenimax/Bethesda/etc needs a tentpole to keep the ES francise alive. Legends and Blade are pretty much niche products and you can only resell Skyrim so often. With TES6 4-5 years away they need this game to keep it alive. The whole release structure since Morrowind is build around that:- A story mode chapter utilising some of the most valuable assets (Vvardenfell, Alinor, Elswys (they had to had Dragons here to keep up interesst). Each chapter is self-contained so they can rope in new players each year.
- Dungons and trials aimed at the endgame population to keep up the appearance of a healthy MMORPG
- Focus on PvP, because that's what the developers mostly play
You can bet that the game will go into low-effort maintainance mode once TES6 drops.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GhostofDatthaw wrote: »GhostofDatthaw wrote: »Still no genuine stats to back up the premise of this post.
It’s all apocryphal and, thus, irrelevant. Only ZOS know the reality of player numbers and you sense that even they don’t trust the data as they would surely ensure that the servers were capable of meeting demand if they did.
Just to refute the basic assumption that fewer people are playing. You will always notice when someone around you, who you are familiar with, leaves. You will only rarely notice when a new player joins.
The same with guilds. You will notice when a guild you are familiar with closes, you won’t necessarily notice the new one(s) that take its place.
The guilds I was in saw a massive surge in members when guild finder was introduced. They’ve all been at near capacity ever since and there is a very regular culling of inactive players to free up guild slots.
TL:DR show me the numbers
Tldr, just look at PvP. It doesn't take much to realize half the game, the PvP side, the side they advertise super hard at release is shriveled up and dying.
Another post saying there is no proof from you position with your head under a rock and buried in the sand
Show me the numbers.
Anything else is just apocryphal and means nothing.
Lol @FierceSam just open your eyes. I don't have to show you any numbers because zos doesn't release numbers so you asking for them is like asking for me to unplug the sun.
I have been playing this game since it's release, so I have WATCHED the amount of players dwindle. If you think the population is not dwindling it just shows you are a very new player, probably only playing a year or so.
How about you show me proof and numbers that it is not dying. Since I know for a fact it is, how about you prove it is not to me. Because you don't have numbers either anything you say is apocryphal and means nothing
Think Sam is probably on the EU server?
PC EU is a laggy, overpopulated bun fight, in the new areas especially.
It would seem that the US and EU experiences vary significantly.
PC US = adequate server capacity with not enough players.
PC EU = inadequate server capacity with too many players.0 -
Ohtimbar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can’t speak for anyone else but I bailed three months ago due to the sorry state of the game, lack of communication and a litany of other complaints. I hopped on the forums this morning to see what was new and after doing some reading I’ll just go back to happily not playing ESO. Maybe it’ll be worth returning next year for the Skyrim chapter (probably not).forever stuck in combat2 -
Runschei✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've stopped playing because I'm tired of completely changing up gear, skills, cp and rotation every month or so.4 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Cicero's rhetoric teaches us that "True speaker is one who knows how to treat humble subjects with simple language, elevated ones with solemn language, medium ones with moderate language."
Saloon bar discourse is completely appropriate here.
Not sure what Cicero has to do with the saloon bar. He was more about politic discourse in civil society.
Here (the UK) the saloon bar discourse is typified by drunken pig-ignorance masking itself as intelligent discourse and being belligerently opposed to any contrary argument or fact.
You rarely, if ever, convince anyone past 18 old with arguments. The most effective course of action is to destroy their arguments down to cinder and steamroll over them, while building support from other people.
Even when not willing to be that destructive, I am not going to get such passive-aggressive counters to me explaining multiple years knowledge of an area. When I see that attitude, I turn on the steamroller.
I’m perfectly happy to be swayed by arguments and facts. I’m challenging the proposition of this thread, that player numbers are down and significant numbers of players are leaving. Show me the numbers, not opinions. It’s that simple.
Until then it’s all just apocryphal opinion. And as such has no serious value.1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭decade_mauler wrote: »After 4+ years Woke up this morning started my dailies and finally did what I had been contemplating for the past year. I broke down all my armor, weapons, jewelry and monster sets gave away everything, deleted my characters and uninstalled the game on PS4 . Just had to make sure there was no going back. PVP is no fun anymore . You feel you have so much time and effort invested that it really does make it hard to put down.
You can wait for the next expansion where they make their newest character super OP just to sell expansions and you need to decide if you want to grind it out or just become cannon fodder until they balance them back to where they should be
No more MMO's for me , I don't plan on investing this kind of time in another game ...
Best to all who remain...
This is what ZOS really needs to figure out. Please stop destroying this game. Change your combat team. Put them in marketing or pr just away from things they have no clue about.
But according to them they're "killing it", so why would they change something they are happy with? The players' opinion and experience is irrelevant, because their "vision" is the only thing they are looking at.
"Those who don't learn from past mistakes, are doomed to repeat them".
We had the Blizzard president telling us that what matters is how THEY think we are meant to have fun, they know better than their players and... WoW lost several millions of players since then. And still stinks.
Pre and during WoD, you mean?
Yeah, that was ridiculous.
Especially as MoP was such a good, player-friendly, xpac and actually halted WoW's decline.Edited by Tigerseye on November 11, 2019 12:24PM1 -
I’m on PS4 NA and I can never find a group doing any of the old Craglorn trials on normal anymore. That says to me there aren’t many newer players at 160 trying to gear up with AY, VO, Alkosh, etc. Getting into those trials used to be no problem.PS4 NA DC id: goldenflamesling2 -
synnerman✭✭✭✭I have approx 45 days left on my sub and won't be renewing as I only log in to get rewards etc. I am sick of eventually finding builds etc for my chars that I pvp with for it all to be changed once again on a whim and an apology . The EU PvP campaign is worthless as its constantly being morning capped and 1 faction eneds up 20k ahead and people just dont want to log in to a fully capped map and an Emp.
I have been playing GW2 free and am waiting for the black friday sales for that and WoW to go on sale and I will pay my sub to WoW and have a catchup on that . Been here since Beta and its been fun but its turned into a joke now. PvP being ignored and frankly I actually think they are just coasting to keep the playerbase until the new Elers scrolls comes out sadly.12 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭goldenflameslinger wrote: »I’m on PS4 NA and I can never find a group doing any of the old Craglorn trials on normal anymore. That says to me there aren’t many newer players at 160 trying to gear up with AY, VO, Alkosh, etc. Getting into those trials used to be no problem.
And what has happened to the numbers doing Cloudrest and/or Sunspire?
Both probably up over the same period.
Relequen’s is more desired than AY (which is a heavy set which really only benefits medium set wearing melee characters). Alkosh is a medium set used for tanking, so all the body pieces are fundamentally useless. Yolo is an easier to acquire tanking set. Lokke is a more desirable stam dps set.
All this says to me is that Craglorn trials no longer deliver the most sought after sets.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...mmo's have it's NGE debacle.
This is nothing like NGE. NGE was a complete rework of the game from the ground up. It completely did away with entire classes and tried to turn a sandbox into a WoW clone. I get where people go, "oh, I know, NGE was bad, I think this is bad, therefore it must be like NGE."
It's the MMO equivalent of Goodwin's Law. As people complain about an MMO's patch, the probability of someone comparing it to the NGE approaches 1.0 -
I play on EU, and can see the drop off in guild activity.
One of the main issues is the new trader bid system along with less activity from leaders. My main trade guild hasn't had a pitch for 2 of the last 3 weeks.
If things keep getting quieter the guild trading system doesn't work so well....1 -
david_m_18b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Bcuz the CEO is someone who said sixteen time the details lying straight up in the face of everyone.
What good can you expect from this company now ?1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When a game no longer values it's long time customers and shifts to casual players, the end is near. They are, IMO, in "rake in as much cash as possible" mode.
i would argue that eso's fans are mostly elder scrolls players and thus most of its long term players are likely also casual players. Hardcore does not necessarily equal longtime. The recent hardcore exodus didnt kill the game.
they have always been in rake in as much cash as possible mode.
I am that Elder Scrolls person you mentioned. While I can find a character that is still fun to play, the character that I want to play requires a ton of rework. It is not really fun to play, anymore. I really don't feel like fixing the character. Consequently, I feel I need to either abandon another character or move onto something else. The latter seems to be the best path, given how ZOS isn't really firing on both cyliders of their little engine.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZarkingFrued wrote: »Alliance lock, ABSOLUTELY CONSTANT NERFS TO EVERY SKILL THAT WAS FUN, performance was supposed to go up this patch and other patches-has gone down significantly this patch, complete race rework at 3k crowns per change and already mention of future "adjustments", my afraid crown store changes signal upcoming P2W implementation. The list goes on. The current devs got ahold of ESO and decided to make a new game that everyone hates rather than maintain the one we've been playing. Simple.
If ZOS looks at the money they have made from race change they will see how unethical race change was to start with when it costs cash to change. I dont care about the few free ones. I have way more characters
I'm paying 100k per 13 character to remove from main campaign right now so I can join the locked 30 day on a blue as all other campaigns are DEAD and lve been AD on all characters for years. Ridiculous and has been
My feedback and anyone in this threads feedback will be ignored, and they will make more nerfs based on one person who doesnt know how to play making threads that get a lot of attention because people are so against the proposed change that they open it and just bump it in the process. Zos will say, "2k views and few hundred comments?! NERF IT!!!"
wisdom!"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.0 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭
Agreed. I think alot of endgame pve trials/progression players are having the hardest time, and are the ones playing less/leaving. If you are in an endgame score guild, you basically have nothing to play for. You will not be beating any of your scores any time soon. Players in progression guilds are trying to reformat/optimize their teams to get anywhere near the damage they had before, which of course is a pipe dream : )No new endgame PvE content this patch.
Faction Lock discouraging a lot of hardcore PvPers.
Combat changes require almost all builds/rotations to change just 3 months after they were changed drastically.
In general the updates just haven't been good.
No one wants to see their characters regress in any game. It’s really bad for player retention. I can only guess that ZOS must be banking on a new wave of players coming in.
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carlos424✭✭✭✭✭Just becuause there is a lot of content doesn’t mean it’s good content.
I do not think content has anything to do with it. Heck, Zos has provided the best quality new PvE content over the past few years compared to the current major MMORPGs active today. Granted, that does not mean it meets everyone's interest but is has been better than what WoW and FF have provided by far.
With playing ESO there has been a high degree of change in combat each year because Zos has not been able to make up their mind. This past year Zos has been pushing the limits of the amount of change player can handle and it has caused heavy change fatigue. As someone who has played this game for almost 6 years I can say I am tired of all these changes.
I do not Blame ZoS as much as I blame the Meta. When these streamers and youtubers come out and say that only these X,Y,Z sets are Viable and Only these X,Y,Z skills are Viable and their fan base follow the cookie cutter builds.
Soon everyone starts running the same sets and skills not only dominating pvp with them in PvP, But also PvE. And in this lies the problem. The community starts to demand you run these builds and shame you for playing your own build. It starts to alienate a majority of the community, because many don't like to be told how to play.
So ZoS comes in tries to Balance it with other skills, but they over do it so have to adjust and we get forums like this with the Cookie Cutter players complaining and it starts all over again.
It has been going this way since the first patch and will continue until the end of the game. No different than any other MMO. If you really don't like it than maybe MMOs are not for you. Because this is the nature of the beast.
Dude, you’ve been shamed for running builds? “The community demands you run these builds”?? Who are you playing with? Maybe you need new friends.
There is always going to be a few “best” setups for most damage, best healing, best tanking, whatever. There is no problem with things being changed from time to time. People just get fatigued with wholesale changes every couple of months.2 -
Spearpoint✭✭✭How to you know they are dropping like flies? Got any stats?Arinwyn ~ Cute Wood Elf Archer
Wardena ~ Frost Wardeness [Died alongside Arctic Blast]
Dry Spell ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ
Dark Heart of Skyrim 🍺
Bomblebee ~ cya'll out there
Bouncing Betty ~ Front Toward Enemy
Spearpoint ~ Jab Them With The Pointy End
Six Feet Above ~ Reapertime!
Bisolar Disorder - Bright & Moody
Django Unleashed ~ Mr. Nordic Bather's Towel
Master Angler ~ Struggles With Ichthyophobia
Ichthyophobia ~ Secretely Dreams of Becoming a Master Angler
Lol Brb
"Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." — Queen Ayrenn1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No as in ESO has been very profitable at last since one Tamriel.IwakuraLain42 wrote: »When a game no longer values it's long time customers and shifts to casual players, the end is near. They are, IMO, in "rake in as much cash as possible" mode.
i would argue that eso's fans are mostly elder scrolls players and thus most of its long term players are likely also casual players. Hardcore does not necessarily equal longtime. The recent hardcore exodus didnt kill the game.
they have always been in rake in as much cash as possible mode.
Pretty much so. The only reason the game is still online is the fact that Zenimax/Bethesda/etc needs a tentpole to keep the ES francise alive. Legends and Blade are pretty much niche products and you can only resell Skyrim so often. With TES6 4-5 years away they need this game to keep it alive. The whole release structure since Morrowind is build around that:- A story mode chapter utilising some of the most valuable assets (Vvardenfell, Alinor, Elswys (they had to had Dragons here to keep up interesst). Each chapter is self-contained so they can rope in new players each year.
- Dungons and trials aimed at the endgame population to keep up the appearance of a healthy MMORPG
- Focus on PvP, because that's what the developers mostly play
You can bet that the game will go into low-effort maintainance mode once TES6 drops.
Yes the purpose is to maximize profit.
Combat and balance team is pretty independent, yes if they mess up and its obviously a drop in players because if this they will get get an order to fix that.
As TES 6 is 4-5 years away we don't know the state of ESO then its 9-10 year old but guess its continue as it does now.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭holden_caulfield wrote: »So, what's the plan? All the big guilds seem to be disbanding or have disbanded on PS4, I have heard of an exodus pre dragonhold on PC as well. All the veteran players seem to have lost interest or just stopped bothering.
It's getting harder to find a good group to even do vSS. Forget vCR. Yes, there are a few groups running around doing the hardest content but it seems a huge number of population has given way.
Is this the beginning of the end? I've played on PC since 2015 and on PS4 since 2018. Things haven't been so dismal in the past 4-plus years.
P.S, I understand dps dropped considerably this patch making the end game harder than before. But most of that content was being done with even less of a damage output when it came out.
Is it perhaps because of the absolute clueless attitude of ZOS? Like triggering people because they can't figure out what they are doing patch after patch?
I'm just trying to figure out if I should invest more time and money or maybe finally move on and wait for a new Elder Scrolls
Edit: no this is not a I quit thread. I still love this game and hope that I am wrong about my feelings.So, what's the plan? All the big guilds seem to be disbanding or have disbanded on PS4, I have heard of an exodus pre dragonhold on PC as well. All the veteran players seem to have lost interest or just stopped bothering.
It's getting harder to find a good group to even do vSS. Forget vCR. Yes, there are a few groups running around doing the hardest content but it seems a huge number of population has given way.
Is this the beginning of the end? I've played on PC since 2015 and on PS4 since 2018. Things haven't been so dismal in the past 4-plus years.
P.S, I understand dps dropped considerably this patch making the end game harder than before. But most of that content was being done with even less of a damage output when it came out.
Is it perhaps because of the absolute clueless attitude of ZOS? Like triggering people because they can't figure out what they are doing patch after patch?
I'm just trying to figure out if I should invest more time and money or maybe finally move on and wait for a new Elder Scrolls
Edit: no this is not a I quit thread. I still love this game and hope that I am wrong about my feelings.
Really? Then Im really lucky.
Try to kill a world boss? Nope! Already killed 5 minutes before.
A delve maybe? Seems to be in bejin during Rush hour.
Ok lets farm nodes. Nope everywhere platoons of botanists or miner or woodworker.
Im an early Bird even on weekend. Ok. Ill queue for a rnd dung or a BG maybe. 7gmt and 3 minutes after i have my party.
My guilds? 2 tier 1 trading guild and 3 for pkaying the content. Guess what? Packed.
Im not into conspiracy theories but these kind of posts seem to me like paid bad pubblicity.
Or really weak people try to confirm their bias and fishing for agrees from other (few) disfranchised player
How adorable."Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.6 -
SirLeeMinion✭✭✭✭✭
✭decade_mauler wrote: »After 4+ years Woke up this morning started my dailies and finally did what I had been contemplating for the past year. I broke down all my armor, weapons, jewelry and monster sets gave away everything, deleted my characters and uninstalled the game on PS4 .
No more MMO's for me , I don't plan on investing this kind of time in another game ...
Best to all who remain...
I'm sorry to hear that. I never actually get around to deleting everything and still go back to visit some old MMOs for holiday events and the like. But, looking back at some greats that entertained me for hundreds of hours before they took a path that I wouldn't follow (Robocraft, GW2, EVE online, and some that folks never heard of) there are some good memories. I hope your memories of ESO in the long run are good, even if the parting is sad. gl;hf!
1 -
SirLeeMinion wrote: »decade_mauler wrote: »After 4+ years Woke up this morning started my dailies and finally did what I had been contemplating for the past year. I broke down all my armor, weapons, jewelry and monster sets gave away everything, deleted my characters and uninstalled the game on PS4 .
No more MMO's for me , I don't plan on investing this kind of time in another game ...
Best to all who remain...
I'm sorry to hear that. I never actually get around to deleting everything and still go back to visit some old MMOs for holiday events and the like. But, looking back at some greats that entertained me for hundreds of hours before they took a path that I wouldn't follow (Robocraft, GW2, EVE online, and some that folks never heard of) there are some good memories. I hope your memories of ESO in the long run are good, even if the parting is sad. gl;hf!
There were always issues we lived with but now zergs are king , the voice system doesn't work 90% of the time , resing at a tent in the middle of a fight is a death sentence . Load screens (also a death sentence) are common . zorks streak and run is tiresome . Being Sniped and killed before you get the first hit registered on you or being hit by oil or siege which isn't visable . The dungeon finder is useless. The addition of the Hammer was one of the worst decisions I think they made . I try to remember the good but the bad is still pretty stinging.
I had my most fun playing my Mag blade but was almost useless to play solo these days , most of the offense had been nerfed away as they try to get people to stay away from solo play .
Deleting was the only way to achieve some permanence , I played ESO exclusively . I literally have not played another game on my PS4 for the past 4 years .
I can't say quitting was a bad decision... I actually got to work early today
11 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sandnessen wrote: »How to you know they are dropping like flies? Got any stats?
Or photographic studies of players being taken out by massive fly swatters?4 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm reading all this.....
and I'm thinking.... Aren't you guys (generic term) the same people who volunteered to have NO additional Anything if they would just focus 100% on improving the tech side of the game, fix the bugs, and get rid of the lag, make everything run smooth?
And now its- We Must have something brand new every 6 months or all the players will leave!
Can we please pick a stance and stick with it?
3
