Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
How to get rid of tank meta?
-
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think it's time to get rid of PvP. It causes way too many problems for balancing.1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭@DCZergNoob
That's not what I meant, balancing TES and MMO, I meant that the Tank / DD / Healer schema only exists in PvE. In PvP we can experience a more broad range of characterization, in the spirit of TES. This idea that heavy=tank=no damage is not how this game is built, it is not how any TES game I've played was built.
Sure, there's Heavy Damage sets. And what of Light Armor Master? Medium Fortified Brass? Medium Bloodspawn? Medium Lord Warden? There is only an incremental trade-off in Damage vs Resistance in Medium/Light vs Heavy, it is not dichotomous like you seem to prefer. Like many have illustrated, there are numerous ways to build defensively in MA and LA, and there are ways to build offensively in Heavy, as you have listed above.
What you get with Heavy that you don't out of other armor weights is the reactive Stamina & Magicka restoration from the Constitution passive. Other than that, there is no absolute difference. I don't think many players want to distill all PvP builds into PvE roles.
Self-healing received in Heavy is stronger, but self-healing done in Medium/Light is stronger.
Edited by Urzigurumash on November 7, 2019 11:26AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyhow as for your particular point that Battle Spirit be reduced to 2500 for Heavy Armor, which is buffed by HA passives, this is a much more reasonable suggestion than diminishing damage done in Heavy, which is not buffed by HA passives.
Regardless it seems a bit arbitrary, and wouldn't really have much of any change. You might just encourage more HA players to run Blue Food and make up the difference. A drop to sustain for them but they'll just heavy attack you more to exploit the Revitalize passive of HA.
What do you think of my suggestion, in light of buffs to single target heals, diminutions to damage, etc, rather than nerfing anything, buffing Debuffs in PvP? This would also help to incentivize building a well-rounded group with access to all debuffs, which many may now gloss over in favor of more all-out damage. Note, the debuff of Onslaught is strongest against HA, the debuff of Defile is strongest against HA, the debuff of Mangle is strongest against HA. There is not a debuff to Max Stam, or a debuff to Stam Regen, other than the cost increase poisons, off the top of my head. This is a clear benefit to MA over HA. I suppose Maim could be construed as a more severe debuff to LA/MA than HA.
Edited by Urzigurumash on November 7, 2019 11:42AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
I agree with tank meta killing pvp. It's not the small group tanks. It's the tank zergs. PS4 NA AD runs zergs of tanky templar healers. Yes we meat bag, yes we negate. But they have such a large group of heals they still manage to come out with just a couple losses.
They stack heals and drop aoes as they goes. Templars have fairly good aoes. Drop 10+ heals and aoes it can hurt. Small groups or solo tanks are not a huge deal. But it's the fact that zergs are becoming nothing but tanks.0 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@srfrogg23 It's time to get rid of pve. It causes way too many problems
Hey! That's not... I see what you did there, you rascal, you...
In all seriousness, though, I hear CoD has phenomenal PvP. You should give that a shot.Edited by srfrogg23 on November 7, 2019 12:07PM1 -
DCZergNoob✭✭✭I think it's time to get rid of PvP. It causes way too many problems for balancing.
Yeah because that wont kill the game AT ALL!
You really think the daily PVPers wants to wake up one day and find out that the thing they enjoy most in this game is being removed ENTIRELY? Steam charts are bad enough as it is
[snip]
[Edit for baiting.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 8, 2019 2:10AM2 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DCZergNoob wrote: »I think it's time to get rid of PvP. It causes way too many problems for balancing.
Yeah because that wont kill the game AT ALL!
You really think the daily PVPers wants to wake up one day and find out that the thing they enjoy most in this game is being removed ENTIRELY? Steam charts are bad enough as it is
[snip]
[Edit for baiting.]
I really don't think it would "kill" the game, per se. Based on what I've read on the forums, PvP is killing the game now. Zos can't balance PvP correctly, people are quitting, it is counter to "play as you want", etc., etc., etc.
It's time. It's time to admit that PvP in ESO is a lost cause. It can only make things better if the devs just eliminate it completely and focus their efforts on making PvE content the best it can be without regard to PvP.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 8, 2019 2:11AM1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Calling for nerfs for HA is laughable. Come on, craft HEAVY armored NMA and we will see how tanky you are
Yes... Nerf HA, and tanky players will stay be more
DCZergNoob wrote: »I think it's time to get rid of PvP. It causes way too many problems for balancing.
Yeah because that wont kill the game AT ALL!
You really think the daily PVPers wants to wake up one day and find out that the thing they enjoy most in this game is being removed ENTIRELY? Steam charts are bad enough as it is
[snip]
[Edit for baiting.]
I really don't think it would "kill" the game, per se. Based on what I've read on the forums, PvP is killing the game now. Zos can't balance PvP correctly, people are quitting, it is counter to "play as you want", etc., etc., etc.
It's time. It's time to admit that PvP in ESO is a lost cause. It can only make things better if the devs just eliminate it completely and focus their efforts on making PvE content the best it can be without regard to PvP.
LOL
Nothing more needs to be said
Edit:
Just to be sure, I'm laughing of your post...
That's why democracy is not always the best solution.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 8, 2019 2:11AMI'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
DCZergNoob✭✭✭DCZergNoob wrote: »I think it's time to get rid of PvP. It causes way too many problems for balancing.
Yeah because that wont kill the game AT ALL!
You really think the daily PVPers wants to wake up one day and find out that the thing they enjoy most in this game is being removed ENTIRELY? Steam charts are bad enough as it is
[snip]
[Edit for baiting.]
I really don't think it would "kill" the game, per se. Based on what I've read on the forums, PvP is killing the game now. Zos can't balance PvP correctly, people are quitting, it is counter to "play as you want", etc., etc., etc.
It's time. It's time to admit that PvP in ESO is a lost cause. It can only make things better if the devs just eliminate it completely and focus their efforts on making PvE content the best it can be without regard to PvP.
ESO itself is a lost cause. killing PVP entirely will just get rid of the players already there
And kaal has been pop locked on all 3 factions on most days on PC NAEdited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 8, 2019 2:12AM0 -
DCZergNoob✭✭✭Calling for nerfs for HA is laughable. Come on, craft HEAVY armored NMA and we will see how tanky you are Yes... Nerf HA, and tanky players will stay be more
DCZergNoob wrote: »0
-
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DCZergNoob wrote: »I think it's time to get rid of PvP. It causes way too many problems for balancing.
Yeah because that wont kill the game AT ALL!
You really think the daily PVPers wants to wake up one day and find out that the thing they enjoy most in this game is being removed ENTIRELY? Steam charts are bad enough as it is
[snip]
[Edit for baiting.]
I really don't think it would "kill" the game, per se. Based on what I've read on the forums, PvP is killing the game now. Zos can't balance PvP correctly, people are quitting, it is counter to "play as you want", etc., etc., etc.
It's time. It's time to admit that PvP in ESO is a lost cause. It can only make things better if the devs just eliminate it completely and focus their efforts on making PvE content the best it can be without regard to PvP.
...or I will respond like a reasonable man.
People are not quitting because of PvP (at least most of them). They are quitting because:
A. Neverending performance issues ignored for years.
B. Bugs - from global ones like stuck in combat, to things like skills not working as they should.
C. PC EU - constant issues with login, crashes, kicks etc. after each update & maintenance.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 8, 2019 2:12AMI'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.2 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DCZergNoob wrote: »I think it's time to get rid of PvP. It causes way too many problems for balancing.
Yeah because that wont kill the game AT ALL!
You really think the daily PVPers wants to wake up one day and find out that the thing they enjoy most in this game is being removed ENTIRELY? Steam charts are bad enough as it is
[snip]
[Edit for baiting.]
I really don't think it would "kill" the game, per se. Based on what I've read on the forums, PvP is killing the game now. Zos can't balance PvP correctly, people are quitting, it is counter to "play as you want", etc., etc., etc.
It's time. It's time to admit that PvP in ESO is a lost cause. It can only make things better if the devs just eliminate it completely and focus their efforts on making PvE content the best it can be without regard to PvP.
...or I will respond like a reasonable man.
People are not quitting because of PvP (at least most of them). They are quitting because:
A. Neverending performance issues ignored for years.
B. Bugs - from global ones like stuck in combat, to things like skills not working as they should.
C. PC EU - constant issues with login, crashes, kicks etc. after each update & maintenance.
You're obviously only reading some of the threads/posts on these forums. PvP in this game is leading us to the path of ruin. I say we amputate the infected limb while we can still save the patient.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 8, 2019 2:12AM0 -
Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭Wanna get rid of Tank meta? Raise the resist cap by 10k and lower Heavy armor focus from 5280 to 2640.
It will force people to choose between dps HA or Resist HA.Edited by Rampeal on November 7, 2019 3:29PM0 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tankiness in PVP is not about armor weight you're wearing. It hasn't been that way for a long time. We can agree that a tank meta is a bad thing, but the current tank meta is not a heavy armor meta. Nowadays, tankiness is a matter of healing power, percentage-based mitigation, and sustain. What's more, the fact that tankiness is the meta depends not just on how easy it is to be tanky, but also on how hard it is to counter those things I just mentioned due to potent offensive options being neutered over the last six months or so. If Incap still had a defile and no cast time, if Dizzy stun were still a thing, if Reverb still had a defile, if Pollen defile still stuck to players who moved out of the AOE, if DOTs were at least back on Elseweyr levels, etc., the meta would significantly improved.
If heavy armor were nerfed today, the tank meta would still be here tomorrow. Calling for heavy armor nerfs in order to fix the problem just demonstrates that you are not in a position to be commenting on this game's balance or design.Edited by casparian on November 7, 2019 4:46PM7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.6 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is why input for balance changes should only come from experienced players and those who have an unbiased view of the game's current meta. Too many whiners and clueless people on the forums asking for the wrong nerfs.6 -
Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭Tankiness in PVP is not about armor weight you're wearing. It hasn't been that way for a long time. We can agree that a tank meta is a bad thing, but the current tank meta is not a heavy armor meta. Nowadays, tankiness is a matter of healing power, percentage-based mitigation, and sustain. What's more, the fact that tankiness is the meta depends not just on how easy it is to be tanky, but also on how hard it is to counter those things I just mentioned due to potent offensive options being neutered over the last six months or so. If Incap still had a defile and no cast time, if Dizzy stun were still a thing, if Reverb still had a defile, if Pollen defile still stuck to players who moved out of the AOE, if DOTs were at least back on Elseweyr levels, etc., the meta would significantly improved.
If heavy armor were nerfed today, the tank meta would still be here tomorrow. Calling for heavy armor nerfs in order to fix the problem just demonstrates that you are not in a position to be commenting on this game's balance or design.
Weapon/Spell damage only effects damage.
Stamina/Magicka only effects healing.
No more double dipping.
Wouldn't this fix alot of things?0 -
DCZergNoob✭✭✭This thread has become a hellstorm of people who have no idea what there talking about0
-
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DCZergNoob wrote: »DCZergNoob wrote: »Emmagoldman wrote: »Sounds like you need to go over to nocp. Some people like the tankier feel of cp, the higher regen and long fights. Chasing 1 person around a tower......how fun! But to each their own.
With cp, you can go HA because you have much higher regen and HA weaving has a strong return. Its better to have higher wpn dmg because of cp modifiers which some of the HA sets have.
In nocp, fights are shorter as people do run out of resources. Bleed and proc builds are stronger while going for dmg set ups are viable too. Regen is also way more important.
This does seem to be the case. I only do none CP PvP exclusively and this invincible "tank meta" doesn't exist there. I've never seen it - and I'm certainly not seeing it now either.
So what i'm now forced not use the CP I've been grinding up for years all because ZOS can't balance there game in a way that leaves the majority happy?
Also as previously stated in one of my replies for No CP camp you just run around for 30 minutes until i find someone who is doing the same thing. or 30 people who are doing the same thing.
And don't even get me started on BG's
I'm not conceding that this invincible tank meta exist in CP PvP either. I just can't say one way or the other because I don't participate in it. And I actually prefer battlegrounds to Cyrodil personally. It's more fair where as in my experience Cyrodil is mostly just a numbers game with lame zerg-based combat. Though it can be fun at times if you're lucky enough to stumble upon a fair fight or smaller scale battles.
BGs performance has been beyond poor this entire xp event & in when you do get in one you either verse bots or premades
Never really been my thing tbh
I did a couple of them today. Didn't notice any performance issues, though I was having some issues with the activity finder earlier in the week.
Premades can suck.
Generally though, I believe Battlegrounds are in the best state they've ever been in from a pure game play perspective.Edited by Jeremy on November 8, 2019 2:48AM0