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How to get rid of tank meta?
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Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saying that the "tank meta" (or rather HoT stack meta) doesn´t exist in no-cp is a nice lie many peope like to tell themselves.Edited by Qbiken on November 6, 2019 9:30AM0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saying that the "tank meta" (or rather HoT stack meta) doesn´t exist in no-cp is a nice lie many peope like to tell themselves.
Mhm... I think we should specify what do you understand by tank meta. If you are mad because of a guy you can't kill in 1v1 then sorry to ruin your bubble, but it is ok.
When I say "tank meta" I mean players that can face tank 3 or more experienced people - as for now I haven't seen such situation in noCP. Yes they try to run around the trees and rocks, but it just delays the unevitable. Even if it is possible its extremly rare when compared to CP campaigns where you can meet such players every few minutes."We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After switching back to noCP camp after few months I can clearly see that this problem is nonexistent in noCP environment. Yes there are tanks that are unkillable in 1v1 but I haven't seen anybody who would be able to facetank 3 or more experienced players.
CPs need rework, there is no point in nerfing sets or armour type because:
A. People will switch to other similar sets and result will be almost the same.
B. Or it will kill tanks completely which is even worse.
M
We already had oblivion, bleeds, defiles, dots. Everything in the end leads to more imbalance and extremely cheesy setups.
CPs need to change. IMHO we should rework CPs from giving passive stats into system that allows to use them to buff active abilities. E.g. you want lower the cost of an ability? Spend thief points on that certain ability. You want stronger ability? Spend mage points on it. But you won't have buffed passive resistances, passive damage and sustain, it won't buff your sets, potions etc. You will be able to slightly adjust your skills, but only this.
I believe that's the direction they should go with CP as well: allow players to invest in specific abilities instead of broad and blanket increases in certain areas. Not only would it help alleviate the balance issues, but I believe it would also be more interesting and lead to a greater variety of personalized builds.
Exactly! This would affect very narrow aspect of character strength meaning in general balance would be easier to maintain, while also giving us some interesting options (like increasing range of the skill, lowering it's costs or increasing its strenght).
It would also allow to remove CPs limit because you can have only 12 active skills, so if we could spend 100 CPs (just an example amount) per skill limit would be always 1200 active CPs, while all the rest you can spend on skills that you would like to swap or used for different builds.
This would mean progress above 1200 CPs would be still desired and useful but would not affect the balance because at the same time you can use just those 1200 CPs. It would be more of a convenience progress.Edited by Mayrael on November 6, 2019 10:17AM"We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.1 -
scottii✭✭✭If you want to balance tank meta, the devs need to change how much block damage is mitigated and also remove the jumping exploit to avoid direct damage (long overdue). In just one example, 5 DPS fighting 1 tank for over 5 minutes will deal hardly any damage. Thank has nearly unlimited resources and health. Tank builds up Fury's set damage proc and then quickly kills all players fighting him.
The problem is you'll start to see an entire faction make this same build. Obviously there's always a problem with "meta builds", but this one has got to be the most hated. I remember playing ESO 2 years ago, and nearly the entire faction was stam DK tanks.Praying the Daedric Gods will make Cyrodiil great again.0 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭So you wanna 1 shot ppl?
Typical pvp whine. Zerglings had trouble killing someone and then asking nerfs in forums. How about l2p?
lol bust out the LTP , i bet you dont have any idea at all how to pvp , becouse if u did u would know that wat he is talking about is a real problem , some one should not be able to hold block and spam one skill and tank 3 players and have decent damige. but if u wanna pull the LTP card im sure u wouldnt mind backing your self up and 1v1 him ,
But %100 sure u wontTWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp2 -
DCZergNoob✭✭✭DCZergNoob wrote: »DCZergNoob wrote: »DCZergNoob wrote: »
Because you want to nerf something that affects only a tiny portion of the game population.
Lmao, endgame pvp wether it be cp or no cp is a solid 50% of the endgame, Just as how endgame PVE & trials make up the other 50%
Saying otherwise is obnoxious
And endgame (PvP and PvE) is at most 5% of the player base :shrug:
Dude.....Thats a straight up lie
Agreed. I suspect it would be less.
Didnt you just say that xbox NA has no population?0 -
Indoril_Nerevar✭✭✭Heavy Armor is absolutely fine. It does not need any changes. It will not recieve any.
Let me simplify this before you get cocky;
1) Hold your breathe on it If you dont trust me
2) If you're still here and I was wrong, now you can say "meta" when referring to this topic
. Edited by Indoril_Nerevar on November 6, 2019 4:38PM0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »Heavy Armor is absolutely fine. It does not need any changes. It will not recieve any.
Let me simplify this before you get cocky;
1) Hold your breathe on it If you dont trust me
2) If you're still here and I was wrong, now you can say "meta" when referring to this topic .
Heavy Armor is not fine. It outclasses medium and light armor by a long shot.
I you are tanky, you should not be able to burst players down.
Light and Medium armors can't have the tankiness and survivability that Heavy has. So how is it balance that Heavy gets the damage that medium and light has?
No, Heavy Armor needs a huge shave of damage output!Edited by FearlessOne_2014 on November 6, 2019 4:42PM1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »Heavy Armor is absolutely fine. It does not need any changes. It will not recieve any.
Let me simplify this before you get cocky;
1) Hold your breathe on it If you dont trust me
2) If you're still here and I was wrong, now you can say "meta" when referring to this topic .
Heavy Armor is not fine. It outclasses medium and light armor by a long shot.
I you are tanky, you should not be able to burst players down.
Light and Medium armors can't have the tankiness and survivability that Heavy has. So how is it balance that Heavy gets the damage that medium and light has?
No, Heavy Armor needs a huge shave of damage output!
The bolded part is a huge lie,
Heavy armor is fine.3 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heavy vs Medium vs Light with players at the same skillset range and class who wins?0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Heavy vs Medium vs Light with players at the same skillset range and class who wins?
The one that knows how to play.5 -
RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.
Tanks should be tanks and nothing else. If you build to be a tank. You should not be able to do a Damage Dealers worth of damage at the same time.
Battlespirit addition = While wearing 5 piece heavy in PvP your Weapon Damage and Spell Power is reduced by 50%.
Boom done Tank Meta over and more playstyle variety.Edited by FearlessOne_2014 on November 6, 2019 8:04PM3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Man I miss the lol button!
Not every heavy set is a damage set. FFSEdited by TequilaFire on November 6, 2019 8:57PM3 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.
Sure, then add a damage taken debuff for wearing more than 3 medium or light. It goes both ways or not at all......FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.
Tanks should be tanks and nothing else. If you build to be a tank. You should not be able to do a Damage Dealers worth of damage at the same time.
Battlespirit addition = While wearing 5 piece heavy in PvP your Weapon Damage and Spell Power is reduced by 50%.
Boom done Tank Meta over and more playstyle variety.
Yikes.......0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They really should make it so anyone can wear heavy armor.Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.
Sure, then add a damage taken debuff for wearing more than 3 medium or light. It goes both ways or not at all......FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.
Tanks should be tanks and nothing else. If you build to be a tank. You should not be able to do a Damage Dealers worth of damage at the same time.
Battlespirit addition = While wearing 5 piece heavy in PvP your Weapon Damage and Spell Power is reduced by 50%.
Boom done Tank Meta over and more playstyle variety.
Yikes.......
The debuff is already there in the form of lower armor ratings.1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.
Sure, then add a damage taken debuff for wearing more than 3 medium or light. It goes both ways or not at all......FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.
Tanks should be tanks and nothing else. If you build to be a tank. You should not be able to do a Damage Dealers worth of damage at the same time.
Battlespirit addition = While wearing 5 piece heavy in PvP your Weapon Damage and Spell Power is reduced by 50%.
Boom done Tank Meta over and more playstyle variety.
Yikes.......
The debuff is already there in the form of lower armor ratings.
If you want to add an active debuff for wearing a specific type of armor, you need to add something for all armor types or none at all. And the difference in armor rating isn´t as big of a deal in terms of damage mitigation as you think between the different armor types.1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Run some pen and some damage. Geeze. The truly unkillable tanks in PvP ain’t killing nobody.2 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Tanks should be tanks and nothing else.
Says who? You're throwing out your opinion like it's dogma.
This isn't a hack n slash where you pick characters A B or C.
Medium has better sustain and damage. Medium wins duels, wins Death Match.
There is no evidence equally skilled players in Medium and Heavy are just as lethal.
Edited by Urzigurumash on November 6, 2019 9:54PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.
Tanks should be tanks and nothing else. If you build to be a tank. You should not be able to do a Damage Dealers worth of damage at the same time.
Battlespirit addition = While wearing 5 piece heavy in PvP your Weapon Damage and Spell Power is reduced by 50%.
Boom done Tank Meta over and more playstyle variety.
Players like him are reason why PvP is in such bad state, clueless and whining...Edited by SilverPaws on November 6, 2019 11:03PM3 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Indoril_Nerevar wrote: »Heavy Armor is absolutely fine. It does not need any changes. It will not recieve any.
Let me simplify this before you get cocky;
1) Hold your breathe on it If you dont trust me
2) If you're still here and I was wrong, now you can say "meta" when referring to this topic .
Heavy Armor is not fine. It outclasses medium and light armor by a long shot.
I you are tanky, you should not be able to burst players down.
Light and Medium armors can't have the tankiness and survivability that Heavy has. So how is it balance that Heavy gets the damage that medium and light has?
No, Heavy Armor needs a huge shave of damage output!
Show me one passive that increases damage output in the Heavy Armor skill line. I’ll wait2 -
Mrsinister2✭✭✭✭✭I don't think heavy armor is the problem I think the problem is stuff like brp weapons that give major protection or insane healing while retaining massive damage light/medium armour gives.
Most people I fight and can't seem to dent yet they have huge damage seem to run these weapons at least the people nice enough to reply to me are.
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DCZergNoob✭✭✭SilverPaws wrote: »FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »My idea is to add a damage penalty for 3 or more pieces of heavy worn so at 3 it would be 2% reduction in weapon and spell damage at 4 pieces 4% 5 heavy- 6% and so on
But to kill the PvP tank meta without gutting tanks in PvP is going to be rough.
Tanks should be tanks and nothing else. If you build to be a tank. You should not be able to do a Damage Dealers worth of damage at the same time.
Battlespirit addition = While wearing 5 piece heavy in PvP your Weapon Damage and Spell Power is reduced by 50%.
Boom done Tank Meta over and more playstyle variety.
Players like him are reason why PvP is in such bad state, clueless and whining...
Actually no its the zerglings all in heavy armor that makes it not fun to fight any of them and zos being zos as per usual not knowing how to balance PVP properly
Although i think 50% is a bit too much, I do agree that tanks should be tanks and nothing else. Or at the least if you wanna still do damage in heavy, have the skill to back it up sorta like medium armor.
People cant just wack on medium and be good & hold there own against any player out there like heavy can
Welll.....Unless there bowtards with snipe but thats a different story0 -
DCZergNoob✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »bait title, another pvp short sighted player.
move along.
Isn't that what you should be doing then?0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭@DCZergNoob
There's another recent thread on this subject which you might peruse, but anyhow:
Your vision of balance may be quite a bit more restrictive than most players would like. Balancing the TES and MMO aspects is never simple.
However, if you are frustrated with the durability of heavily armored players in Cyro, one suggestion you might make that would engender some accord rather than hostile disagreement with us "PvP Tanks" is:
Stronger debuffs in PvP tied to active skills. Double them all versus their PvE weights. Something like that. Trying to delete heavy and/or force us into stricty PvE roles just isn't going to be a popular idea.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
DCZergNoob✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »@DCZergNoob
There's another recent thread on this subject which you might peruse, but anyhow:
Your vision of balance may be quite a bit more restrictive than most players would like. Balancing the TES and MMO aspects is never simple.
However, if you are frustrated with the durability of heavily armored players in Cyro, one suggestion you might make that would engender some accord rather than hostile disagreement with us "PvP Tanks" is:
Stronger debuffs in PvP tied to active skills. Double them all versus their PvE weights. Something like that. Trying to delete heavy and/or force us into stricty PvE roles just isn't going to be a popular idea.
There is a way they can get rid of HA meta without it affecting PVE in the slightest
Removing/halving battle spirit health passive if your in 5 heavy0
