How to get rid of tank meta?

DCZergNoob

Remove/half the battle spirit health passive if your in 5 heavy
Change the improved sneak medium armour passive to something better (its a bad passive) so medium armour is more viable and people start running it again
I think there are more damage sets in heavy then there is in medium. What the hell
Set the PVP CP cap to 501

Atleast one of these things will be a guaranteed success

FearlessOne_2014

All that ZOS needs to do is to cut Heavy Armor damage sets damage in half. EZ Clap!

However I suspect ZOS approves of Heavy Armor META.

Also Medium Armor is light-years better than light armor. So I don't think people like you should complain about Medium armor being weak when Light Armor is weaker than Medium Armor in PvP.


~[ TL/DR : Nerf Heavy Armor Damage sets, and leave Medium and Light Armor alone. (For example {Through Battle Spirit while wearing 5 piece Heavy Armor all Spell Power and Weapon Damage is decreased by 50%} ]~

Boom I just solved Heavy Armor META without much thought. If I can do then so can ZOS. ZOS just choose Heavy Armor to be OP AF in PvP. That's all there is to it really.

Kurat

So you wanna 1 shot ppl?
Typical pvp whine. Zerglings had trouble killing someone and then asking nerfs in forums. How about l2p?

DCZergNoob

Kurat wrote: »

So you wanna 1 shot ppl?
Typical pvp whine. Zerglings had trouble killing someone and then asking nerfs in forums. How about l2p?

how about come duel me

DCZergNoob

DCZergNoob wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

So you wanna 1 shot ppl?
Typical pvp whine. Zerglings had trouble killing someone and then asking nerfs in forums. How about l2p?

how about come duel me

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

All that ZOS needs to do is to cut Heavy Armor damage sets damage in half. EZ Clap!

However I suspect ZOS approves of Heavy Armor META.

Also Medium Armor is light-years better than light armor. So I don't think people like you should complain about Medium armor being weak when Light Armor is weaker than Medium Armor in PvP.


~[ TL/DR : Nerf Heavy Armor Damage sets, and leave Medium and Light Armor alone. (For example {Through Battle Spirit while wearing 5 piece Heavy Armor all Spell Power and Weapon Damage is decreased by 50%} ]~

Boom I just solved Heavy Armor META without much thought. If I can do then so can ZOS. ZOS just choose Heavy Armor to be OP AF in PvP. That's all there is to it really.

Yeah, that doesnt sound too bad actually, Stuff like old 7th legion fury was fine because you had to build it up first
But things like new moon heavy & then just run something like battlefield acrobat is way too easy these days

Malmai

The problem is everbody wants to be tank, because people are crying they get killed in 1 sec otherwise... This game need to be shutdown its a big mess all over...

FearlessOne_2014

Malmai wrote: »

The problem is everbody wants to be tank, because people are crying they get killed in 1 sec otherwise... This game needa to be shutdown its a big mess all over...

The problem is that Tanks are dealing as much or more Burst Damage as Squishy Damage Dealers in Light or Medium Armor. That is completely screwed and needs to be address ASAP!

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

The problem is everbody wants to be tank, because people are crying they get killed in 1 sec otherwise... This game needa to be shutdown its a big mess all over...

The problem is that Tanks are dealing as much or more Burst Damage as Squishy Damage Dealers in Light or Medium Armor. That is completely screwed and needs to be address ASAP!

Please explain to me how heavy armor, with no damage boosting passives, can do more damage than light & medium armor... which do have damage passives? Is there some Heavy Armor exclusive set that gives huge DPS as a 5 set bonus? I dont think so, and making up crap like this makes ZOS take you (and the forum community as a whole) less seriously.

Anyway, back to OP, medium armor sneak bonus skill could have some sort of 'combat' bonus built into it as well. Perhaps attacks from behind the target have additional armor penetration and inflict major defile for a second or two.

Light armor should get some Spell Power built into either one of their '5 piece' skills.

DCZergNoob

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

The problem is everbody wants to be tank, because people are crying they get killed in 1 sec otherwise... This game needa to be shutdown its a big mess all over...

The problem is that Tanks are dealing as much or more Burst Damage as Squishy Damage Dealers in Light or Medium Armor. That is completely screwed and needs to be address ASAP!

Yeah the sets/passives just outweigh the medium & light armor ones. People who just scream l2p on everything are just delusional

Sergykid

stop talking about CP pvp, arguments are invalid.

DCZergNoob

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

The problem is everbody wants to be tank, because people are crying they get killed in 1 sec otherwise... This game needa to be shutdown its a big mess all over...

The problem is that Tanks are dealing as much or more Burst Damage as Squishy Damage Dealers in Light or Medium Armor. That is completely screwed and needs to be address ASAP!

Please explain to me how heavy armor, with no damage boosting passives, can do more damage than light & medium armor... which do have damage passives? Is there some Heavy Armor exclusive set that gives huge DPS as a 5 set bonus? I dont think so, and making up crap like this makes ZOS take you (and the forum community as a whole) less seriously.

Anyway, back to OP, medium armor sneak bonus skill could have some sort of 'combat' bonus built into it as well. Perhaps attacks from behind the target have additional armor penetration and inflict major defile for a second or two.

Light armor should get some Spell Power built into either one of their '5 piece' skills.

No because pen off light attack from behind is as useless as it is on surprise attack|Would make it even worse. Nobody apart from bowtards benefit from improved sneak. It's better off to scrape the entire passive and move it to CP IMO
Although major defile wouldn't be too bad as long as it doesn't matter what side you hit them from

DCZergNoob

Sergykid wrote: »

stop talking about CP pvp, arguments are invalid.

Why?

Hamish999

DCZergNoob wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

stop talking about CP pvp, arguments are invalid.

Why?

Because the tank meta is more prevelant in CP campaigns.

frozzzen101

You will NEVER ever get rid of tank meta in pvp. Let me repeat that in clearer words: you can flip Cyrodil upside down, but you will never get rid of HA zergs, because for that segment of population, which is in fact biggest segment of cyro players, only thing that matters is to survive. Damage will come from swarming others, so naturally they will invest into heavy armor, impen and healing so they can stay alive and participate in pvp. Damage? Who cares, other guys will do it and as long as I'm alive I can fight. And this mindset is true for new players dipping their feet in pvp, and casual pvpers that are mostly pve focused. So yeah, majority of pvp folks. They don't care about 1vX, they only peripherally care about AP and all they care about is having fun and participation in pvp.

So to answer your question, only way you will get rid of tank meta in pvp is to get rid of pvp itself.

DCZergNoob

Hamish999 wrote: »

DCZergNoob wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

stop talking about CP pvp, arguments are invalid.

Why?

Because the tank meta is more prevelant in CP campaigns.

So? I don't get why that negates why we cant talk about it

Hamish999

DCZergNoob wrote: »

Hamish999 wrote: »

DCZergNoob wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

stop talking about CP pvp, arguments are invalid.

Why?

Because the tank meta is more prevelant in CP campaigns.

So? I don't get why that negates why we cant talk about it

Because you want to nerf something that affects only a tiny portion of the game population.

Anyron

Or you can leave CP and go to no-cp.

less laggy and tanking isnt that easy without CP

Integral1900

As long as the damage output remains so ludicrously high players will continue to go for maximum protection

Players don’t like getting one spotted, it’s as simple as that

Then you have pve, where a lot of mechanics indirectly reward massive damage output, players don’t have to get skilled or learn mechanics if they can simply nuke bosses into the ground... pve has the vast majority of players and therefore pays most of the bills. They have reined in some of the extremes but ultimately they will not reduce it so much that the pve majority gets the hump. (No one really cares about the top 1%) Therefore pvp has to make do with the current compromise. Whether pve players like it or not this game is balanced for pve first and pvp second, the small pvp community can and will be sacrificed if need be.

Haquor

Massively increase single target dot damage.

Moonsorrow

I always wonder what is a "tank" to many.. because often hear things like "that guy was tanking me and friends and then then killed me, should not be able to do that!" what is sort of weird since:

1. That is the whole point of combat, to mitigate damage while killing enemies at the right time & position.

2. If a group cannot kill a single target AND then gets killed by that target, i can tell you.. that target is not a tank and that group is not a very good group.

3. That is just called a working build and being able to handle the resource in a balanced way and picking targets and killing them.

4. If you see someone "taking damage" and LoS mitigating most big hits, means they are just building Fury Stacks and/or waiting to get ulti up for a burst.

5. What are they supposed to do? Stand there doing nothing and die?

Should everyone play a squishy build what most often means: first that hits wins? And if you build squishy you get ganked also. Come on people, think for a moment. Also, while it might be frustrating to you if someone feels tanky to you, then exactly HOW many seconds are people ALLOWED to live in your fantasies before they have to horse simulator back for minutes? Just curious.

Oh and the tanky people not gonna go away, unless ZOS wants to nerf whole pve tanking too and for sure they want the casual pvp players to enjoy their pvp groups, you know the tanks who like to siege with buddies.. no idea why i am here to defend their rights also, even they often demand everything nerfed that solo & small scale people use. Oh well, still.. enough with the nerfs.

Not met a single person yet on this patch that i could not melt in 1vs1. I know healtank groups that are on discord are rough to deal with, but they are supposed to be taken out by a similar group anyways.

DCZergNoob

Haquor wrote: »

Massively increase single target dot damage.

LIke last patch? yeah no im good

jcm2606

Anyron wrote: »

Or you can leave CP and go to no-cp.

less laggy and tanking isnt that easy without CP

And then either run around for a half hour before finding an actually good fight, if you're trying non-CP Cyrodiil, or you're sitting through an infinite load screen that'll likely lead to a crash and give you the deserter penalty, if you're trying Battlegrounds.

The best thing Zenimax can do is either choose CP or non-CP, axe the other one, and start moving whatever one they have left towards something that even remotely resembles balanced PvP. Talking about issues like this is completely pointless when the game is operating in two distinct extremes -- CP and non-CP.

DCZergNoob

Anyron wrote: »

Or you can leave CP and go to no-cp.

less laggy and tanking isnt that easy without CP

Ahh yes because i love running 3x sustain glyphs , serpent mundus on a wood elf with bone pirate hulking BS and having 4k stam recov and still running out in 5 seconds

Moonsorrow wrote: »

I always wonder what is a "tank" to many.. because often hear things like "that guy was tanking me and friends and then then killed me, should not be able to do that!" what is sort of weird since:

1. That is the whole point of combat, to mitigate damage while killing enemies at the right time & position.

2. If a group cannot kill a single target AND then gets killed by that target, i can tell you.. that target is not a tank and that group is not a very good group.

3. That is just called a working build and being able to handle the resource in a balanced way and picking targets and killing them.

4. If you see someone "taking damage" and LoS mitigating most big hits, means they are just building Fury Stacks and/or waiting to get ulti up for a burst.

5. What are they supposed to do? Stand there doing nothing and die?

Should everyone play a squishy build what most often means: first that hits wins? And if you build squishy you get ganked also. Come on people, think for a moment. Also, while it might be frustrating to you if someone feels tanky to you, then exactly HOW many seconds are people ALLOWED to live in your fantasies before they have to horse simulator back for minutes? Just curious.

Oh and the tanky people not gonna go away, unless ZOS wants to nerf whole pve tanking too and for sure they want the casual pvp players to enjoy their pvp groups, you know the tanks who like to siege with buddies.. no idea why i am here to defend their rights also, even they often demand everything nerfed that solo & small scale people use. Oh well, still.. enough with the nerfs.

Not met a single person yet on this patch that i could not melt in 1vs1. I know healtank groups that are on discord are rough to deal with, but they are supposed to be taken out by a similar group anyways.

I appreciate your input, but 1v1's and 1vx/open world are 2 different things, Pretty hard to burst in a 1vx IF all are a mix between high HP punching bag tanks & healers, which seem to be commonplace this patch

If group v group is in play then AND both sides are tanky then its 7/10 just a stalemate match until one side has ults then target a player in hopes they kill him before the healers can react to it. And even then majority of small scale pvp groups tend to get outnumbered more times then not

Kadoin

Blame the CP system it has a significant impact. If you want a true visual on how much CP does for a tank, take all your CP off on your tank build in CP PvP OR go to PvE and do some vet dungeons with no CP in your build and see what happens.

Hamish999

jcm2606 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Or you can leave CP and go to no-cp.

less laggy and tanking isnt that easy without CP

And then either run around for a half hour before finding an actually good fight, if you're trying non-CP Cyrodiil, or you're sitting through an infinite load screen that'll likely lead to a crash and give you the deserter penalty, if you're trying Battlegrounds.

The best thing Zenimax can do is either choose CP or non-CP, axe the other one, and start moving whatever one they have left towards something that even remotely resembles balanced PvP. Talking about issues like this is completely pointless when the game is operating in two distinct extremes -- CP and non-CP.

PC EU noCP has a very healthy population :shrug:

FearlessOne_2014

Hamish999 wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Or you can leave CP and go to no-cp.

less laggy and tanking isnt that easy without CP

And then either run around for a half hour before finding an actually good fight, if you're trying non-CP Cyrodiil, or you're sitting through an infinite load screen that'll likely lead to a crash and give you the deserter penalty, if you're trying Battlegrounds.

The best thing Zenimax can do is either choose CP or non-CP, axe the other one, and start moving whatever one they have left towards something that even remotely resembles balanced PvP. Talking about issues like this is completely pointless when the game is operating in two distinct extremes -- CP and non-CP.

PC EU noCP has a very healthy population :shrug:

I wish PCNA had a healthy nonCP presence. As a player with 1098 CP, I personally prefer the balance in nonCP. More give and take combat. And not this I can be tanky as hell, and still burst people down stuff, you have going on in CP.

Luckylancer

@DCZergNoob It is your fault if you run out of stam with that setup. You lie or spam roll dodge or expect pre-morrowind sustain (infinite and non-stop spam)
______________________
Buff light and medium. Stop killing people's play style.

Moonsorrow

DCZergNoob wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Or you can leave CP and go to no-cp.

less laggy and tanking isnt that easy without CP

Ahh yes because i love running 3x sustain glyphs , serpent mundus on a wood elf with bone pirate hulking BS and having 4k stam recov and still running out in 5 seconds

Moonsorrow wrote: »

I always wonder what is a "tank" to many.. because often hear things like "that guy was tanking me and friends and then then killed me, should not be able to do that!" what is sort of weird since:

1. That is the whole point of combat, to mitigate damage while killing enemies at the right time & position.

2. If a group cannot kill a single target AND then gets killed by that target, i can tell you.. that target is not a tank and that group is not a very good group.

3. That is just called a working build and being able to handle the resource in a balanced way and picking targets and killing them.

4. If you see someone "taking damage" and LoS mitigating most big hits, means they are just building Fury Stacks and/or waiting to get ulti up for a burst.

5. What are they supposed to do? Stand there doing nothing and die?

Should everyone play a squishy build what most often means: first that hits wins? And if you build squishy you get ganked also. Come on people, think for a moment. Also, while it might be frustrating to you if someone feels tanky to you, then exactly HOW many seconds are people ALLOWED to live in your fantasies before they have to horse simulator back for minutes? Just curious.

Oh and the tanky people not gonna go away, unless ZOS wants to nerf whole pve tanking too and for sure they want the casual pvp players to enjoy their pvp groups, you know the tanks who like to siege with buddies.. no idea why i am here to defend their rights also, even they often demand everything nerfed that solo & small scale people use. Oh well, still.. enough with the nerfs.

Not met a single person yet on this patch that i could not melt in 1vs1. I know healtank groups that are on discord are rough to deal with, but they are supposed to be taken out by a similar group anyways.

I appreciate your input, but 1v1's and 1vx/open world are 2 different things, Pretty hard to burst in a 1vx IF all are a mix between high HP punching bag tanks & healers, which seem to be commonplace this patch

If group v group is in play then AND both sides are tanky then its 7/10 just a stalemate match until one side has ults then target a player in hopes they kill him before the healers can react to it. And even then majority of small scale pvp groups tend to get outnumbered more times then not

You know that 1vX only works on pugs & potatos without comms.. thus why i said 1vs1, of course still can kill potato groups as before. But to avoid that they build more on HP to not get melted instantly.

I know it can be annoying when there is like 12+ and half of them are 30-40k hp magplars (as an example, magplar mains do not get triggered heh), the cross healing makes fights long and just has to pick targets that you can get to follow you long enough to be separated from their zerg. They do not get baited as easily as before, i guess some are learning.

But you know why they build for more HP? Just so they do not get killed in 2 seconds, because burst damage is high in the right hands. It would be impossible to try to balance the game around 1vX, same as for dueling.

Pvp balance imo is tough job for ZOS, mainly because most players have their own vision about it and hardly anyone agrees on things. I mean, think about Bleeds before changes to them, those killed tanks, yet so many wanted them gone, now i see some of the same people talking about too tanky people.

Impossible job for ZOS; when people cry things are "OP" when they die to some things, and things get nerfed, then cannot kill their enemies, so crying about too tanky enemies starts instead. And things to take into consideration:

If you take out (nerf to ground) Blood Spawn and other resistance sets as an example, people build even more HP and/or shields. And if you nerf those and other choices to be tanky, SnB nerfs even more and so on what some want, then pve tanks get erased, and if pvp people cannot be tanky in comfortable enough with old methods, people start to either leave or do weird things like just whole group of Cloaking nb or everyone just Sneaking everywhere, because most people do not enjoy being killed faster than can even react (Onslaught gank into average hp build, dead in couple seconds).

While i and most experienced people i know enjoy fast combat with risks and deaths and rewarding feeling when can pull good battles (i usually run on 26kish hp setups, unless race with hp bonus then might be near 30k because of that), but must understand one important thing: Our enemies are not there just for our amusement to be killed in 2 seconds. I know, mindblown.jpg. If they have fun while they play, atleast we have enemies to play against and not dead campaigns.

Still, as a solution to certain negative sides atleast not increasing, i think ZOS should atleast not get even more rid of ways to get Defiles on people, Revert Bash Major Defile was good. But i know ZOS wants people to use Class Defiles and if your class does not have it then teaming up with someone and coordinating. Or Cyro Ward. Sadly, people cry about Defiles when they were more available. Hard to please people lol.

Edit: Thought about it for a moment, and since ZOS (and many players) does not want SnB to have Defile since it already has other utility, then would be cool if we finally would have an option for both stam and mag to use and since Soul Trap most likely went to "not many use it anymore" status after the dot nerfs, then could make the other morph something like Defiling Trap, with 4 seconds of Major Defile attached to it. Since scales with highest stats both specs could use it. Price would be a skill slot, same as for any utility. Would be nice on weapon skills, but lately ZOS not like skills that end up too overloaded with stuff, especially pvp utility. Some would still cry about that, so good things never happen.

TequilaFire

DCZergNoob wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

So you wanna 1 shot ppl?
Typical pvp whine. Zerglings had trouble killing someone and then asking nerfs in forums. How about l2p?

how about come duel me

Should we meet at recess?

DCZergNoob

TequilaFire wrote: »

DCZergNoob wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

So you wanna 1 shot ppl?
Typical pvp whine. Zerglings had trouble killing someone and then asking nerfs in forums. How about l2p?

how about come duel me

Should we meet at recess?

Yeah man, outside the cafeteria

bmnoble

A part of the tank meta in PVP is nothing to do with dealing damage, its about making up for the disadvantage of the lag/poor performance in Cyrodiil, people don't want to be killed quickly before they have had a chance to at least fight back.

If the performance were better more would be wearing medium, until that changes you will continue to see heavy used in PVP.