Goregrinder wrote: »Level 15, two bars, monster set, two full 5-piece sets with proper glyphs and traits...the only thing missing would be skills and passives. Destroying noobs in BG's would so fun. ZOS how do we make this happen? Give me that Twink PVP!
Thanks for the responses! I would argue that any established account with access to high level crafting and knowledge of the game is going to destroy the legitimately new under 50 PVP players, but I can see how players with monster helms and top level dropped sets will have more of an advantage. I think an argument could be made for accounts with CP being ineligible in PVP content intended for new players, period, considering the veteran players who take advantage of it right now.
On the other hand, in the PVE world, there is the difference between trashing all your gear drops from CP 159 down, since it all becomes useless, as opposed to having gear that can be used, which would actually help new players as they progress to more difficult content. Have many of you not experienced leveling a character and getting a fantastic drop, but having to destroy it because it was below CP160?
I am aware of the sense of progression in this sort of game, where the next level of gear is supposed to give the player a sense of increased power and progression, but the way level scaling works In this game, that is actually inverted, where players, especially newer ones, tend to feel progressively weaker as they level further.
I appreciate and respect everyone’s comments, and hope more folks will chime in, even if simply to dispute my suggestion.
Goregrinder wrote: »Level 15, two bars, monster set, two full 5-piece sets with proper glyphs and traits...the only thing missing would be skills and passives. Destroying noobs in BG's would so fun. ZOS how do we make this happen? Give me that Twink PVP!
Just crown store that stuff
starkerealm wrote: »
Addition to the above the gear level do give an illusion of rpg progression while leveling, at least for the first time.
starkerealm wrote: »
That was exactly why I used that as an example... because they tried to do the "no character levels" thing, only item levels and quality levels.
luizpaulom17 wrote: »So veteran's low level charecters can dominate under 50 Cyrodiil and low level BGs?!?! No, no, no sir.
Like U said, its fast to reach CAP level and 160, no point to change that!
Dread_Viking wrote: »dont think its a good idear how ever i do think we need something like the heirloom gear from wow
Addition to the above the gear level do give an illusion of rpg progression while leveling, at least for the first time.
Along with crafting progression, and the whole satisfaction of gaining quest rewards and dropped loot etc.
The OP's proposal would create a totally different game, and would wreck it for those who enjoy the whole leveling process in a MMORPG - with all their characters, not just the first one.
All the things the OP is concerned about are only pointless to those players whose idea of playing a game is to grind in one place for a few hours and then complain because they don't like this or that about the "endgame". They're the last people a game should be designed around.
starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
That was exactly why I used that as an example... because they tried to do the "no character levels" thing, only item levels and quality levels.
The problem with TSW as an example is, regardless how Funcom wanted to present it, it was a traditional MMO progression scheme. The only hickup was that your "level" was purely gear dependent. The major distinction being that the developers could lock your level based on the zone you were in. Ex: You couldn't reach QL7 running around Blue Mountain, because the gear drops stopped at QL7 (outside of the Lair, anyway.) So, it was impossible to "outlevel" the content, no matter how much you ground.
In contrast, ESO has a level agnostic system, where your level is basically irrelevant, and you can attempt whatever you want at whatever level you want. There is a degree of punishment inherent in the system. Because gear you get will decay and lose value as you progress.
There's also a real rough patch when you hit level 50, and graduate to CP10, as your stat adjustments for being a lowbie are gone, but you're also now at the weakest you'll ever be, as the game expects you to be in 160 gear, while you're scrambling around in level 50 (at best) gear.
starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
That was exactly why I used that as an example... because they tried to do the "no character levels" thing, only item levels and quality levels.
The problem with TSW as an example is, regardless how Funcom wanted to present it, it was a traditional MMO progression scheme. The only hickup was that your "level" was purely gear dependent. The major distinction being that the developers could lock your level based on the zone you were in. Ex: You couldn't reach QL7 running around Blue Mountain, because the gear drops stopped at QL7 (outside of the Lair, anyway.) So, it was impossible to "outlevel" the content, no matter how much you ground.
In contrast, ESO has a level agnostic system, where your level is basically irrelevant, and you can attempt whatever you want at whatever level you want. There is a degree of punishment inherent in the system. Because gear you get will decay and lose value as you progress.
There's also a real rough patch when you hit level 50, and graduate to CP10, as your stat adjustments for being a lowbie are gone, but you're also now at the weakest you'll ever be, as the game expects you to be in 160 gear, while you're scrambling around in level 50 (at best) gear.
You are trying way too hard to nit-pick my comment.
luizpaulom17 wrote: »So veteran's low level charecters can dominate under 50 Cyrodiil and low level BGs?!?! No, no, no sir.
Like U said, its fast to reach CAP level and 160, no point to change that!
First off, the idea had a huge negative effect in under 50 PvP as it makes it even easier for players who have been around for awhile to have BiS gear from the start. The idea literaly tells new players they are not welcome in PvP when they first start the game.
Second. as OP even says, the time from 0 to 50 is so short. Because of that it is not that big of a deal to have to deal with gear levels. Heck, when leveling in PvE just wear what drops.
So the conclusion is there is no real benefit to the game to make such a change. It should be left as it is.
Plus, they want to sell their level 50 boosters in the future, because it's $enimax we're talking about here.
starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
That was exactly why I used that as an example... because they tried to do the "no character levels" thing, only item levels and quality levels.
The problem with TSW as an example is, regardless how Funcom wanted to present it, it was a traditional MMO progression scheme. The only hickup was that your "level" was purely gear dependent. The major distinction being that the developers could lock your level based on the zone you were in. Ex: You couldn't reach QL7 running around Blue Mountain, because the gear drops stopped at QL7 (outside of the Lair, anyway.) So, it was impossible to "outlevel" the content, no matter how much you ground.
In contrast, ESO has a level agnostic system, where your level is basically irrelevant, and you can attempt whatever you want at whatever level you want. There is a degree of punishment inherent in the system. Because gear you get will decay and lose value as you progress.
There's also a real rough patch when you hit level 50, and graduate to CP10, as your stat adjustments for being a lowbie are gone, but you're also now at the weakest you'll ever be, as the game expects you to be in 160 gear, while you're scrambling around in level 50 (at best) gear.
You are trying way too hard to nit-pick my comment.
No, I'm telling you, your example is flat out wrong.
PvP probably wouldn't be a factor in balance - I remember when people said selling mage guild would *DESTROY* low level BG's?
As for the gear thing though...
However, what would you do with crafting? Transmute ALL mats into one? It would essentially destroy the game economy along with it as rare mats would explode. People would go from 1K of a top mat to essentially 20K of the "best" mat.
1-50 should have levels and its fine if you outgrow gear. I replace mine maybe once on alt <Level 1 training -> Level 30 training>. When I was leveling though I would tend to save sets.
I do agree there should be a change in gear levels, but only that to remove 1-160 CP from gearing. It seems kind of counter for an Alternate Progression to hit "Max" level, to be told, ohh wait you not actually max level, and the gear? Yup, still useless to start to farm BIS.
There is a valid point there, though. If you removed levels from gear entirely, and let people take monster sets and farmed drop sets into lowbie BGs, the result would be pretty brutal.