Please Consider Removing Levels From Gear

Gundug

I request the developers consider reworking gear to no longer have a character level rating. Instead, I ask that all gear be treated in the same way as the event recipes, in that they scale to the appropriate level.

Since the journey from 1 to 50 is not long, hours to a dedicated player, and CP 10 to 160 is incredibly fast as well, all of the in-between tiers of gear have become pointless. Particularly in the case of the CP levels, once one character has hit 160, there are several gear levels that will never be encountered again on that account.

I would even go so far as to request the removal of all level based items in the game, but that would require a massive reworking of the crafting system and hundreds of recipes, alchemy mixes and enchantments would become redundant. Although, as it stands now, they mostly are anyway.

Disagree or agree, please discuss.

Saelent

Or what about a ‘transmutation’ style thing to ‘level up’ a piece of gear to 160?

luizpaulom17

So veteran's low level charecters can dominate under 50 Cyrodiil and low level BGs?!?! No, no, no sir.
Like U said, its fast to reach CAP level and 160, no point to change that!

Cirantille

Disagree
It would hurt the new players

srfrogg23

I disagree. This isn't The Legend of Zelda or Red Dead Redemption. It's not even The Secret World. This is Elder Scrolls Online and an MMORPG. No reason to dumb it down any more than it is.

Aurie

Just no.

I think you are in the wrong game @Gundug

idk

First off, the idea had a huge negative effect in under 50 PvP as it makes it even easier for players who have been around for awhile to have BiS gear from the start. The idea literaly tells new players they are not welcome in PvP when they first start the game.

Second. as OP even says, the time from 0 to 50 is so short. Because of that it is not that big of a deal to have to deal with gear levels. Heck, when leveling in PvE just wear what drops.

So the conclusion is there is no real benefit to the game to make such a change. It should be left as it is.

daim

Addition to the above the gear level do give an illusion of rpg progression while leveling, at least for the first time.

Fur_like_snow

Oh boy I can’t wait to go into sub 50 BGs with TK or maybe balorgh.

RefLiberty

Gunding thinks about reworking crafting and recipes and not a single thought has been directed towards PvP and balancing.
Heck, the Blizzard still reworking and fine tuning/balancing for a 15 years. Pal it is not that that easy as lets rework recipes.

ArchMikem

idk wrote: »

First off, the idea had a huge negative effect in under 50 PvP as it makes it even easier for players who have been around for awhile to have BiS gear from the start. The idea literaly tells new players they are not welcome in PvP when they first start the game.

Second. as OP even says, the time from 0 to 50 is so short. Because of that it is not that big of a deal to have to deal with gear levels. Heck, when leveling in PvE just wear what drops.

So the conclusion is there is no real benefit to the game to make such a change. It should be left as it is.

I argue that the initial Lvl1 to Lvl50 is short because its usually players rolling Alts that think that way. Back in '15 on my first character it took me a good while to get to 50, simply because i was new, didnt know what to do, where to go etc. I think i was Lvl47 or 48 when i defeated Molag Bal.

Gundug

Thanks for the responses! I would argue that any established account with access to high level crafting and knowledge of the game is going to destroy the legitimately new under 50 PVP players, but I can see how players with monster helms and top level dropped sets will have more of an advantage. I think an argument could be made for accounts with CP being ineligible in PVP content intended for new players, period, considering the veteran players who take advantage of it right now.

On the other hand, in the PVE world, there is the difference between trashing all your gear drops from CP 159 down, since it all becomes useless, as opposed to having gear that can be used, which would actually help new players as they progress to more difficult content. Have many of you not experienced leveling a character and getting a fantastic drop, but having to destroy it because it was below CP160?

I am aware of the sense of progression in this sort of game, where the next level of gear is supposed to give the player a sense of increased power and progression, but the way level scaling works In this game, that is actually inverted, where players, especially newer ones, tend to feel progressively weaker as they level further.

I appreciate and respect everyone’s comments, and hope more folks will chime in, even if simply to dispute my suggestion.

Goregrinder

Level 15, two bars, monster set, two full 5-piece sets with proper glyphs and traits...the only thing missing would be skills and passives. Destroying noobs in BG's would so fun. ZOS how do we make this happen? Give me that Twink PVP!

mairwen85

Probably in some future crown store update.

Do you not get it by now. If you ask for something, ZoS will eventually delivery with a monkey paw kind of twist.

Starlock

What needs to happen is the removal of character levels from this game altogether. Their existence made sense prior to One Tamriel when everything wasn't already scaled to CP 160. Today? It's like a vestigial tail - a remnant of a previous era of the game that is no longer needed. All we need are skills and skill levels, not character and item levels. Not sure why they didn't just make that change when One Tamriel dropped since they effectively made the game level-less at that point anyway.

mairwen85

Starlock wrote: »

What needs to happen is the removal of character levels from this game altogether. Their existence made sense prior to One Tamriel when everything wasn't already scaled to CP 160. Today? It's like a vestigial tail - a remnant of a previous era of the game that is no longer needed. All we need are skills and skill levels, not character and item levels. Not sure why they didn't just make that change when One Tamriel dropped since they effectively made the game level-less at that point anyway.

Now you've done it, OP. let the floodgates open! Or the meme threads commence...

Starlock

mairwen85 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

What needs to happen is the removal of character levels from this game altogether. Their existence made sense prior to One Tamriel when everything wasn't already scaled to CP 160. Today? It's like a vestigial tail - a remnant of a previous era of the game that is no longer needed. All we need are skills and skill levels, not character and item levels. Not sure why they didn't just make that change when One Tamriel dropped since they effectively made the game level-less at that point anyway.

Now you've done it, OP. let the floodgates open! Or the meme threads commence...

So you believe character and item levels still serve some relevant function in this game when everything is scaled to CP 160 anyway?

I mean, they won't make the change at this point. They might do it when they revisit CP, but probably not then either. It would require too significant of a revamp, I wager. Plus, they want to sell their level 50 boosters in the future, because it's $enimax we're talking about here.

kargen27

Gundug wrote: »

Thanks for the responses! I would argue that any established account with access to high level crafting and knowledge of the game is going to destroy the legitimately new under 50 PVP players, but I can see how players with monster helms and top level dropped sets will have more of an advantage. I think an argument could be made for accounts with CP being ineligible in PVP content intended for new players, period, considering the veteran players who take advantage of it right now.

On the other hand, in the PVE world, there is the difference between trashing all your gear drops from CP 159 down, since it all becomes useless, as opposed to having gear that can be used, which would actually help new players as they progress to more difficult content. Have many of you not experienced leveling a character and getting a fantastic drop, but having to destroy it because it was below CP160?

I am aware of the sense of progression in this sort of game, where the next level of gear is supposed to give the player a sense of increased power and progression, but the way level scaling works In this game, that is actually inverted, where players, especially newer ones, tend to feel progressively weaker as they level further.

I appreciate and respect everyone’s comments, and hope more folks will chime in, even if simply to dispute my suggestion.

PvE even new players can progress smoothly with just the gear they get from overland drops. There are many players in the game that are happy to craft gear for new players if they want to go that route. Once you have out leveled that gear use it to level your crafting.

MMO's survive on content being repeated. If you were able to get all the gear you want/need while leveling that would remove an incentive to repeat content and would be bad for the long term health of the game.

SirAndy

Saelent wrote: »

Or what about a ‘transmutation’ style thing to ‘level up’ a piece of gear to 160?

Have it unlock at CP160 and allow us to transmute lower level gear to CP160 ...

Royaji

Someone just got their level 20 BSW inferno, right?

RPGplayer13579

Wouldn't that change the entire game at its core? They are not going to do something that big.

bmnoble

As others here have said, nothing would stop an experienced player putting there end game load out on a new low level character and having a significant advantage in low level PVP, especially for those that are brand new to the game.


As for PVE only thing it would really affect is gear prices on traders, you get plenty of story quests/public dungeon quests that reward for example a mothers sorrow staff or a Briar heart dagger etc.

If this system were added there would be nothing stopping a player creating a fresh new character over and over to farm quests like that to get gear they could sell right away, deleting the character once the items are banked and selling them on traders unless they made quest drops bind on pick up which would not be popular.

The main thing stopping that now is the player needs to get the character to 50 which outweighs the value for the most part of any gear you would be able to get via quests.

Don't really think it would flood the traders with gear, since it does not do away with the time it takes to farm the set pieces.


But I don't think it will happen, they want you to waste more time farming your gear, if you could trade set pieces with any player regardless of level, it would speed up set farming, considerably since you would not have to worry about having CP160 group members.

mairwen85

Starlock wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

What needs to happen is the removal of character levels from this game altogether. Their existence made sense prior to One Tamriel when everything wasn't already scaled to CP 160. Today? It's like a vestigial tail - a remnant of a previous era of the game that is no longer needed. All we need are skills and skill levels, not character and item levels. Not sure why they didn't just make that change when One Tamriel dropped since they effectively made the game level-less at that point anyway.

Now you've done it, OP. let the floodgates open! Or the meme threads commence...

So you believe character and item levels still serve some relevant function in this game when everything is scaled to CP 160 anyway?

I mean, they won't make the change at this point. They might do it when they revisit CP, but probably not then either. It would require too significant of a revamp, I wager. Plus, they want to sell their level 50 boosters in the future, because it's $enimax we're talking about here.

I don't think it matters or makes any difference what I believe. ZoS does as ZOS does, as evidenced every patch.

idk

ArchMikem wrote: »

idk wrote: »

First off, the idea had a huge negative effect in under 50 PvP as it makes it even easier for players who have been around for awhile to have BiS gear from the start. The idea literaly tells new players they are not welcome in PvP when they first start the game.

Second. as OP even says, the time from 0 to 50 is so short. Because of that it is not that big of a deal to have to deal with gear levels. Heck, when leveling in PvE just wear what drops.

So the conclusion is there is no real benefit to the game to make such a change. It should be left as it is.

I argue that the initial Lvl1 to Lvl50 is short because its usually players rolling Alts that think that way. Back in '15 on my first character it took me a good while to get to 50, simply because i was new, didnt know what to do, where to go etc. I think i was Lvl47 or 48 when i defeated Molag Bal.

I played heavily when the game released and outside of those who grinder XP or took advantage of the short lived never ended daily quests in PvP I don’t know anyhow who got to lvl 50 in a couple days back at PC launch. I don’t think the lvl we did MB in Coldharbor is defining concerning that.

Regardless, back then I lvled up my first two characters to 50 using only dropped gear and crafted white gear without set bonus and do the same today except when I go into PvP to lvl up those skill lines.

Granted, I don’t think your arguing with me nor am I with you. I just don’t think OP’s ides is that important or needed. Not to forget that I think it ignores lowbie PvP.

zaria

luizpaulom17 wrote: »

So veteran's low level charecters can dominate under 50 Cyrodiil and low level BGs?!?! No, no, no sir.
Like U said, its fast to reach CAP level and 160, no point to change that!

Good point, first they could use golden bis level pvp gear and moster sets, you could even borrow this from main.

Now they could combine some of the materials used from cp10-160 as said this is an fast process now but back then it was vet levels I got a bit above one vet level for each zone questing in them combined with some pvp making it slow and questing was much slower back then as dps was so much lower.
No double xp or random dungeons either.
You also only use the cp10-140 mats once, later only use is to craft leveling gear for new players.

drkfrontiers

Everything from level 1-CP160 should be treated as an opportunity to deconstruct and level your crafting skills.

llande

That's a bad idea. And no, not all the content is scaled to CP160, it's the world scaling to your lvl. And it is nice change when you level your alt, not to be able to solo dungeons, wb's and anchors right from the start😁

Aurie

idk wrote: »

I played heavily when the game released and outside of those who grinder XP or took advantage of the short lived never ended daily quests in PvP I don’t know anyhow who got to lvl 50 in a couple days back at PC launch. I don’t think the lvl we did MB in Coldharbor is defining concerning that.

Regardless, back then I lvled up my first two characters to 50 using only dropped gear and crafted white gear without set bonus and do the same today except when I go into PvP to lvl up those skill lines.

Granted, I don’t think your arguing with me nor am I with you. I just don’t think OP’s ides is that important or needed. Not to forget that I think it ignores lowbie PvP.

If you hadn't mentioned the PvP word three times I would have clicked the Agree button

Your reasoning applies to PvE equally!

IndianaJames7

My guess is if this happened a lot of players would suddenly have a lot spare skill points.... this would probably hurt skyshard sales....

idk

Aurie wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I played heavily when the game released and outside of those who grinder XP or took advantage of the short lived never ended daily quests in PvP I don’t know anyhow who got to lvl 50 in a couple days back at PC launch. I don’t think the lvl we did MB in Coldharbor is defining concerning that.

Regardless, back then I lvled up my first two characters to 50 using only dropped gear and crafted white gear without set bonus and do the same today except when I go into PvP to lvl up those skill lines.

Granted, I don’t think your arguing with me nor am I with you. I just don’t think OP’s ides is that important or needed. Not to forget that I think it ignores lowbie PvP.

If you hadn't mentioned the PvP word three times I would have clicked the Agree button

Your reasoning applies to PvE equally!

Not that I care about agrees bit I find it odd since I only mentioned how the idea effects PvP only once. Further, it doesn’t effect PvE like it does on PvP. There is no competition in PvP below lvl 50 as there is in PvP.

Katahdin

I don't think it would be a good idea to do that