Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Im referring to you jabbs. Im not saying your ideas wouldn't be fun, but many are not necessary and most are out of line. You also seem to not know how the impact you're having on different game modes and ways to play the class.

I still don't understand what you would consider "out of line". I also explicity stated at the very beginning of the post that the extent of my experience is more versed towards PVP - BG's, Open World and IC. Not that my PVE gameplay is not experienced, just not as fun to me so I choose not to PVE unless I have to anymore.

I understand that some of the OP suggestions may seem biased towards my view of gameplay compared to another's. Do you think that by referencing a specific suggestion followed by personal feedback would clarify a better, or alternate way to update something rather than blatenly saying, "No. You're wrong" with no reasoning whatsoever would be a better way to comment?

I mean if you're going to take the time to read a forum topic, go through the comments and derive a response it should at least be dignified with a well-thought-out response.

All you do is complain, look at your post. You think nearly everything needs a buff. You're biased, misinformed as you commonly mistake how skills work, and you want to change up the way the classes work.

This is also a necro post from the beginning of the year. Let's stop. It's a trap!!

Failing to understand your statement "this is also a necro post from the beginning of the year"...The Necromancer Class is essentially a Templar and Warden mixed together, with hints of other classes. I have not played the class personally, so I'll refrain from commenting further. However, I have never posted about the Necro other than in the Templar Class Rep forum topic thread to point out the similarities of what Templar community has been asking for that was blatenly given to the new class instead.

How am I complaining? If you consider wanting changes made to a class that has extremely clunky mechanics, poor passives that do not synergize well with with active abilities - aside from a few - and an underperforming fluidity of utilizing LA weaving (which is now a prominent way to gain DPS) as complaining then you sir are the one who is biased.

If you Main a Templar, I cannot even fathom how you would not want support change to the current class status. Then again, you haven't contributed any concrete concepts, rebuttals or suggestions to share YOUR knowledge of the Class itself.

If you don't like my Thread Post, don't comment. It's that simple. Don't just go out of your way to attempt to nuke a thread post because you are too inept to accept opposition to your own bias.

Templars are not in a bad spot atm both stam and mag. I play both in pvp and theyre both pretty strong.

I like magplar right now and please leave sweeps alone! It's fine the way it is. Not everything needs to be light attack weaved, the only way they would do that is if they reduced the channel time and damage. Kind of like flurry for dw.

Class identities are just messed up across the board right now, I feel like. The class that should be a glass cannon DPS finds itself most viable as a tank, the class which should be the best healer finds itself as top tier stam DPS, the class which should be a great support role is... Well. Useless.

I think the designers really lost their way at some point. Then new designers picked up where the old ones left off, and now they don't even know where they were supposed to be going because they've already committed. It's a strange situation.

Only makes much difference for hardcore endgame players I guess, but the thing is, if you want a long-lasting MMO which people stick to, that's what you kinda have to cater to, because that's where all players will eventually end up. You can be as casual as you like, but if you want to stick around in the long term you eventually find yourself at the "endgame content", surrounded by tryhards. Only to be told that your class is useless in (current patch) so you can either go grind an alt or sit in the corner.

Nerfs and buffs are so heavy handed that they totally change the state of the game, and they very rarely go back. We never see a skill go from OP to where it should be. It goes from OP to ten feet underground and everyone just drops it to slot the next best alternative.

Nobody is actually playing a templar or a sorcerer or a nightblade right now; we're all playing the same schizophrenic vampire Psijic Undaunted psychopath with a raging potion addiction. Because meta.

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Now i see why every time there is an thread made about templars the OP rushes in installing everyone for everything they say and even personal attacks them about non game related things

You're ridiculous @Nordic__Knights Honestly, just childish. Get over it, you got called out and I'm not the only one who did so. Hate Templars or not, you're a trash player and ever worse you're a poor sport.

I will absolutely defend the Class I chose to enjoy playing the most because unwarranted Nerf suggestions based on here-say and cry-babies like you that can't learn to counter or adapt to above casual skill levels.

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

That's it! Hope you all enjoy. Remember, this thread is not a bashing contest. Constructive criticism is always welcome on topics of improvement or how you may feel some changes are too drastic or un-achievable. We are here to discuss how to improve our beloved Templar Class.

I got nothing against your changes, i just want to know what's your basis for making suggestions. You started strong, giving us your play history and experience with templar, so that's great and all, but then you promptly went flat by immediately suggesting changes.

You didn't give us WHY you recommended those changes.
You didn't give us HOW those changes would affect both templar players and non-templar players.
You didn't give us WHAT evidence, numbers or any kind of testing to indicate how you came to the making this entire laundry list of suggestions and why they should be taken into account, other than for your own pleasure.

For example:
[Aedric Spear Skill Line]:

1. Radial Sweep - Swing your Aedric spear around with holy vengeance, dealing 824 Magic Damage to all nearby enemies and additional 410 Magic Damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Rework animation to shatter the ground with Aedric Spear instead of swinging it, making this Ultimate a true AOE.

Why? Does your method have more AOE than the standard method? It's doing the same damage right? so what would change if they did as you suggested other than more animation work for the devs? How will that change gameplay if its a crush the ground animation rather than a sweep? None at all? Then why do it at all? Now that it crushes the ground, will you start asking it to have a knock down component as well?

2. Crescent Sweep (Morph) - Enemies in your path will be hit for 60% more damage.
Change the “in your path” aspect and include the entire 8m area radius. Also add “sets enemy off balance”.]

Two parts here. The first feels rather irrelevant, at most a quality of life update to the tooltip so that people can understand clearer how far this thing is supposed to hit.

The second however, is a bit more complicated. Off balance? Why Off Balance specifically? Why not something else that templar does not natively have access to? Major Heroism sounds like it would match the image of a unstoppable templar sweeping away everything before him no?

IIRC, this is the main spammable DPS ult morph for templar, how would this addition affect morph choices? Seems like it tip the scale even more in favor of crescent sweep simply cuz most templars are gonna be carrying this either way? How would people react to this? Not much counter play in PVP yeah? Cheap, spammable templar version of incap that even comes with Off Balance, and let you take even more advantage of Balorgh? Sign me up!

3. Puncturing Strikes - Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds

Rework the skill to deal THREE strikes at a higher damage at a shorter channel time. This would allow Templars to Light Attack Weave more efficiently and be on par with other class spam able attacks.

Why? Sounds like a stealth buff to templar to me. The downside to this skill has always been the channelling that stops you from weaving LA. How much more damage would templars be doing if Puncturing was shortened like you recommended so they can LA weave more? How would this affect the morphs? Do they get buffed as well? Wouldn't that make Jabs a lot more powerful and provide a lot more healing since you can now spam it faster? Is there any counter play to this?

Biting Jabs (Morph) – Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear dealing 299 Physical Damage to the closest enemy and 121 Physical Damage to all other enemies. The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds Activating this ability grants you Major Savagery, increasing your Weapon Critical rating by 2191 for 8 seconds.

Drop the critical rating and add Minor Fracture. Arguments that Power of the Light has this – to be discussed later in thread.

AFAIK, most templars don't pick this morph very often purely because Jabs is 1 step short of immortality, so i can see how making upping its damage can make it more attractive. But then you said, drop the critical rating and add minor fracture. Wot? I read through your recommended changes to Backlash, and i see that you think it should still be there. The question then becomes, why not something else? especially if you want Backlash to be an execute? Is there any counter play to this now that its an instant cast? Especially one that can either heal or debuff. Can you dodge it like you dodge the other insta cast executes? Would it provide even more DPS now that we dont need to execute via wonky channelling?

I'm not going to mention the rest, but you get where i'm going right?

P.S. i honestly dig the Backlash changes though. Makes it feel like Judgement execute style exactly like a Paladin should be, and i don't have to spend time channeling a wonky execute like Jesus Beam.

izanagiprime wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

That's it! Hope you all enjoy. Remember, this thread is not a bashing contest. Constructive criticism is always welcome on topics of improvement or how you may feel some changes are too drastic or un-achievable. We are here to discuss how to improve our beloved Templar Class.

I got nothing against your changes, i just want to know what's your basis for making suggestions. You started strong, giving us your play history and experience with templar, so that's great and all, but then you promptly went flat by immediately suggesting changes.

You didn't give us WHY you recommended those changes.
You didn't give us HOW those changes would affect both templar players and non-templar players.
You didn't give us WHAT evidence, numbers or any kind of testing to indicate how you came to the making this entire laundry list of suggestions and why they should be taken into account, other than for your own pleasure.

For example:
[Aedric Spear Skill Line]:

1. Radial Sweep - Swing your Aedric spear around with holy vengeance, dealing 824 Magic Damage to all nearby enemies and additional 410 Magic Damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Rework animation to shatter the ground with Aedric Spear instead of swinging it, making this Ultimate a true AOE.

Why? Does your method have more AOE than the standard method? It's doing the same damage right? so what would change if they did as you suggested other than more animation work for the devs? How will that change gameplay if its a crush the ground animation rather than a sweep? None at all? Then why do it at all? Now that it crushes the ground, will you start asking it to have a knock down component as well?

2. Crescent Sweep (Morph) - Enemies in your path will be hit for 60% more damage.
Change the “in your path” aspect and include the entire 8m area radius. Also add “sets enemy off balance”.]

Two parts here. The first feels rather irrelevant, at most a quality of life update to the tooltip so that people can understand clearer how far this thing is supposed to hit.

The second however, is a bit more complicated. Off balance? Why Off Balance specifically? Why not something else that templar does not natively have access to? Major Heroism sounds like it would match the image of a unstoppable templar sweeping away everything before him no?

IIRC, this is the main spammable DPS ult morph for templar, how would this addition affect morph choices? Seems like it tip the scale even more in favor of crescent sweep simply cuz most templars are gonna be carrying this either way? How would people react to this? Not much counter play in PVP yeah? Cheap, spammable templar version of incap that even comes with Off Balance, and let you take even more advantage of Balorgh? Sign me up!

3. Puncturing Strikes - Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds

Rework the skill to deal THREE strikes at a higher damage at a shorter channel time. This would allow Templars to Light Attack Weave more efficiently and be on par with other class spam able attacks.

Why? Sounds like a stealth buff to templar to me. The downside to this skill has always been the channelling that stops you from weaving LA. How much more damage would templars be doing if Puncturing was shortened like you recommended so they can LA weave more? How would this affect the morphs? Do they get buffed as well? Wouldn't that make Jabs a lot more powerful and provide a lot more healing since you can now spam it faster? Is there any counter play to this?

Biting Jabs (Morph) – Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear dealing 299 Physical Damage to the closest enemy and 121 Physical Damage to all other enemies. The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds Activating this ability grants you Major Savagery, increasing your Weapon Critical rating by 2191 for 8 seconds.

Drop the critical rating and add Minor Fracture. Arguments that Power of the Light has this – to be discussed later in thread.

AFAIK, most templars don't pick this morph very often purely because Jabs is 1 step short of immortality, so i can see how making upping its damage can make it more attractive. But then you said, drop the critical rating and add minor fracture. Wot? I read through your recommended changes to Backlash, and i see that you think it should still be there. The question then becomes, why not something else? especially if you want Backlash to be an execute? Is there any counter play to this now that its an instant cast? Especially one that can either heal or debuff. Can you dodge it like you dodge the other insta cast executes? Would it provide even more DPS now that we dont need to execute via wonky channelling?

I'm not going to mention the rest, but you get where i'm going right?

P.S. i honestly dig the Backlash changes though. Makes it feel like Judgement execute style exactly like a Paladin should be, and i don't have to spend time channeling a wonky execute like Jesus Beam.

First, I want to say thanks for your insight - no one has made comments on this for a while. In all honesty, as with most posts like this I am sure there is some bias on my part. However, it's a suggestion thread not a balancing the game by the Devs coding session (no sarcasm intended).

Going back on your comments, I do see where you're coming from and agree. Let me try to at least clear some things up (I won't go into detail because a lot has changed with Templar since this thread was written).

The animation changes to Radial Sweep were intended to diversify the skill from Dawnbreaker - which it is already too similar. Without the full 8m radius AOE, it's just a weaker Dawnbreaker. If the skill is going to be weaker (lesser chosen Ult) than the Alternative it should affect a larger area than a conal range.
The Morph changes were stated based on the AOE change. 60% more damage would be inside entire AOE, not just "in front of you" and would be sufficient for this Magicka morph. Empowering Sweep should never have been given Empower, though. This morph for Stamina based should have something different, as you said maybe Major Heroism?

The intention with the channel reduction time to Jabs/Sweeps was not intended to buff the damage outright. Instead, it was intended to buff the damage per hit to match the current damage of the 4-hit channel. So in short, no damage change just faster channel.

Backlash should absolutely be a Stamina/Magicka execute that's instant Beam from Heaven! Yes, it would follow the same guidelines of other instant-casted executes.

Zos has reworked Puncturing Strikes several times now and still hasn't got it right. The damage needs to be buffed. Elemental Weapon still out performs Puncturing Strikes in PVE. How long must we wait to have a meaning full change to this skill.

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Zos has reworked Puncturing Strikes several times now and still hasn't got it right. The damage needs to be buffed. Elemental Weapon still out performs Puncturing Strikes in PVE. How long must we wait to have a meaning full change to this skill.

ele weapon outperforms most things in pve.

Currently jabs is super strong in pvp, it does not need a buff.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So a bunch of buffs to the strongest class in the game currently?

Thats gonna be a NO from me.

The thread is from February

Templar class identity is no major sorcery and gulp down potions to get it.

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

A strong NO to the most powerful class in game getting anything but massive nerfs on every single department. Lol

Its already over the top strong. I refer to my own templar playing as easy mode.

Lol, just no you dreamer.

This post was made almost a year ago, and currently on dragonhold live mag Templars are at the bottom for DPS.