Templar Class Identity and Skills *Warning: Long Read*

Jabbs_Giggity

@Checkmath Tagged as Templar Class-Rep.
@ZOS_GinaBruno Tagged for observance and role in the Class-Rep program's correspondence.
@ZOS_Wrobel I know you're no longer here...

Hello. I have spent a great amount of time preparing the information that will be delivered below. This post will be lengthy, so if you feel the need to quote please do not quote the entire post. Please only quote the parts you are referring to in your comments.

I am a Templar main, both Stamina and Magicka. I have played since launch on console through Orsinium and left ESO just shy of Thieves Guild release for personal reasons. I later returned to ESO when One Tamriel released. I played PVE content from launch until around Shadows of the Hist when I first delved in to PVP. Now I play exclusively in PVP Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds and IC. I have seen many changes made to the Templar Class over the years, some good and some not so good. The end result is that the Templar now feels gutted from its identity and bland. Now that the combat team is preparing the time between now and Update 22 to focus solely on Classes, I feel this is a good time to give ideas.

I have posted a link to this thread in the Templar Feedback Thread and created a “New” thread for suggestions to change, rather than posting in the feedback threads themselves which are reserved for “Pain Points”.

To be clear, this thread is purely a suggestion-based rework of the Templar Class to rebalance and/or rework unfavorable skills and passives to be better utilized with the Templar theme and provide a more extensive, fluent tool-kit.

Changes to existing skills will be noted in BOLD.

Aedric Spear Skill Line:
1. Radial Sweep - Swing your Aedric spear around with holy vengeance, dealing 824 Magic Damage to all nearby enemies and additional 410 Magic Damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Rework animation to shatter the ground with Aedric Spear instead of swinging it, making this Ultimate a true AOE.
Crescent Sweep (Morph) - Enemies in your path will be hit for 60% more damage.
Change the “in your path” aspect and include the entire 8m area radius. Also add “sets enemy off balance”.

2. Puncturing Strikes - Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear. The spear deals 298 Magic Damage to the closest enemy and 114 Magic Damage to all other enemies. The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds
Rework the skill to deal THREE strikes at a higher damage at a shorter channel time. This would allow Templars to Light Attack Weave more efficiently and be on par with other class spam able attacks.
Biting Jabs (Morph) – Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear dealing 299 Physical Damage to the closest enemy and 121 Physical Damage to all other enemies. The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds
Activating this ability grants you Major Savagery, increasing your Weapon Critical rating by 2191 for 8 seconds.
Drop the critical rating and add Minor Fracture. Arguments that Power of the Light has this – to be discussed later in thread.

3. Piercing Javelin - Hurl your spear at an enemy with godlike strength, dealing 534 Magic Damage, stunning them for 1.8 seconds, and knocking them back 8 meters.
Lower the costs. Current Costs Magicka/Stamina are 4050/3442.

4. Focused Charge - Charge with your divine lance to impale an enemy, dealing 534 Magic Damage. If the enemy hit is casting, they are interrupted and stunned for 3 seconds.
Increase the speed at which gap is closed; skill is too clunky and easy to see coming. Reduce the minimum distance from 3.5m to 1m.
These have been mentioned more than a handful of times in the Templar feedback thread.
Toppling Charge (Morph) – Always stuns the enemy for 1.5 seconds, regardless if they are casting. Also sets them off balance for 5 seconds if they are casting.
Change to Stamina based skill.

5. Spear Shards - Send your spear into the heavens to bring down a shower of divine wrath, dealing 454 Magic Damage to enemies in the target area and an additional 133 Magic Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds. An ally near can activate the Blessed Shard synergy, restoring 3960 Magicka or Stamina, whichever maximum is higher.
Increase the base damage and DoT damage to be on par with DPS skills. Suggestion: Remove the synergy.
See Name Change for Spear Shards Morph
Luminous Shards (Morph) – The damage over time is reduced to 79 Magic Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds. The synergy also restores an additional 1980 Magicka or Stamina, whichever maximum is lower.
Unforgiving Shards - Enemies in the target area are snared, reducing their movement speed by 60% for 8 seconds.
Blazing Spear (Morph) – The damage over time is increased to 196 Magic Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds.
Converts to a Stamina ability and increases the damage done. Increases Stamina Recovery 5% to allies in target area.

This is going to cause A LOT of controversy…Remove this skill entirely from Aedric Spear and replace it with below…New replacement to be added to Restoring Light.
6. Sun Shield - Surround yourself with solar rays, granting a damage shield equal to 30% of your Max Health for 6 seconds. Nearby enemies take 248 Magic Damage when the shield is activated, and each enemy hit increases the shield's strength by 4%.
Aedric Weapons - Imbue your weapons with Aedric Powers granting Major Sorcery, increasing Spell Damage by 20% for 20 seconds. Cost = 3240 Magicka, Instant, Self-cast for 20 seconds.
Morph 1 - Infuse your Weapons causing all Light/Heavy attacks and weapon abilities to do Magic Damage for 20 seconds. This would allow melee setups to use magic-based damage and restore primary resource. Cost = 3240 Magicka, Instant, Self-cast for 20 seconds.
Morph 2 - Converts to a Stamina ability. Grants Major Brutality, increasing Weapon Damage by 20% for 20 seconds. Aedric Spear abilities Heal for 20% of the damage done.
Cost = 3258 Stamina, Instant, Self-cast for 20 seconds.
Aedric Spear Passives:
1. Piercing Spear - WHILE AN AEDRIC SPEAR ABILITY IS SLOTTED
Increase your Critical Damage by 5/10%. Increase to 7/15%
Increase your damage done to blocking target 5/10%. Remove and Replace in next passive.
2. Spear Wall - WHILE AN AEDRIC SPEAR ABILITY IS SLOTTED
Gain Minor Protection for 1.5/3 seconds, reducing damage taken by 8%. Increase your damage done to blocking AND shielded targets 5/10%.
Minor Protection is mentioned below in Restoring Light Skill Tree.
3. Burning Light - WHILE USING AEDRIC SPEAR ABILITIES
When you deal damage with an Aedric Spear ability, you have a 25% chance to deal an additional 238/477 Physical Damage or 238/477 Magic Damage, whichever is higher.
This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds. Increase the chance to 15/30% and slightly increase the damage output.
4. Balanced Warrior - Increases Weapon Damage by 3/6% and Spell Resistance by 1320/2640.
Add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance. This argument has been made so many times. Don’t call it balanced if it’s not balanced.

Dawn’s Wrath Skill Line:
1. Nova - Call down a fragment of the sun, dealing 410 Magic Damage every 1 second for 8 seconds to enemies in the area and afflicting them with Major Maim, reducing their damage done by 30%. An Ally near the fragment can activate the Supernova synergy, dealing 922 Magic Damage to all enemies in the area and stunning them for 2.5 seconds.
Change Damage type to Fire and increase base Damage to 510 Fire Damage.
Solar Prison (Morph) – An ally near the fragment can activate the Gravity Crush synergy, dealing 1613 Magic Damage to all enemies in the area and stunning them for 5 seconds.
Increase synergy damage done to 1805 Fire Damage.
Solar Disturbance (Morph) – Major Maim persists on enemies who leave the Nova for 4 seconds.
Nova follows the caster until effect ends or synergy is activated. Major Maim persists on enemies who leave the Nova for 4 seconds.

2. Sun Fire - Blast an enemy with a charge of radiant heat, dealing 492 Flame Damage, an additional 597 Flame damage over 5 seconds, and reducing their Movement Speed by 40%. Upon activation, you gain Major Prophecy, increasing your Spell Critical rating by 2191.
No Changes.

3. Solar Flare – Conjure a ball of solar energy to heave at an enemy, dealing 1417 Magic Damage.
Also grants you Empower, increasing the damage of your next Light Attack by 40%.
Change damage type to Fire.
Dark Flare (Morph) – Afflicts target and nearby enemies with Major Defile, reducing the effectiveness of healing on them by 30% for 6 seconds.
Empower is removed and Dark Flare seeks out target (cannot be dodged). Fire Damage is decreased to 982. Afflicts target and nearby enemies with Major Defile, reducing the effectiveness of healing on them by 30% for 6 seconds. Major Defile cannot be dodged.
Solar Barrage (Morph) - Conjure solar energy to blast enemies around you, dealing 477 Magic Damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds. Also grants you Empower after every blast, increasing the damage of your next Light Attack by 40%.
Increase Damage or reduce pulse rate to 1.5 seconds.

Don’t forget about argument listed above for removing Minor Fracture from PotL.
4. Backlash - Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 410 Magic Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 seconds and releasing 20% of it as additional Magic Damage to them. Maximum copied damage: 4774.
New Execute : Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 510 Magic Damage to them. Deals 350% more damage to enemies below 25% Health.
Purifying Light (Morph) – When the effect ends, a pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 327 Health every 2 seconds for 6 seconds.
Base skill + A pool of sunlight remains attached to the enemy, healing you and nearby allies for 327 Health every 2 seconds for 6 seconds. Changed to Instant Cast without duration timer.
Power of the Light (Morph) – Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 411 Physical Damage to them and copying all their damage taken for 6 seconds and releasing 20% of it as additional Physical Damage to them. Maximum copied damage: 4774. Targets are also afflicted with Minor Fracture and Minor Breach, reducing their Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 1320 for 6 seconds. Minor Fracture was suggested to be added to Biting Jabs above, if you already forgot.
Summon an expanding beam of pure sunlight to doom an enemy, dealing 510 Physical Damage to them. Deals 350% more damage to enemies below 25% Health. Changed to Instant Cast without duration timer.

5. Radiant Destruction – Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing 894 Magic Damage over 1.8 seconds Deals up to 480% more damage to enemies below 50% Health.
Revert to Blinding Light - Nearby enemies have a 50% chance to miss and be set off balance for 3.5 seconds. 8m Radius.
Searing Light (Morph) – Afflicted enemies take 344 Fire Damage.
Blinding Flashes (Morph) - Pulses every 2 seconds, causing nearby enemies to have 50% chance to miss and be set off balance for 6 seconds.
Dawn’s Wrath Passives:
1. Enduring Rays - Increases the duration of your Sun Fire, Eclipse, Solar Flare and Nova abilities by 1/2 second.
Decreases the you Block cost by 1/2% for each Dawn's Wrath ability slotted.
2. Prism - Casting a Dawn's Wrath ability generates 2/3 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.
Increase to 3/6 Ultimate.
3. Illuminate - Casting a Dawn's Wrath ability grants Minor Sorcery to you and your group for 10/20 seconds, increasing your Spell Damage by 10%. No Change.
4. Restoring Spirit - Reduces the Magicka, Stamina and Ultimate costs of your abilities by 2/4%. No Change.

Restoring Light Skill Line: Lots of changes to skills and animations.
1. Right of Passage - Channel the grace of the gods, healing you and nearby allies for 985 Health every 1 second for 4 seconds. You cannot move while channeling, but you gain immunity to all enemy control effects.
Change from channel to instant. Remove the “You cannot move” feature.
Remembrance (Morph)- Gain Major Protection, reducing damage you take by 30% for 7 seconds. You cannot move while channeling, but you gain immunity to all enemy control effects.
Grant Major Protection for 2 additional allies. All other effects remain the same.
Practiced Incarnation (Morph)- Increases the duration of the channel.
Base effect as instant and can move freely. Increases healing to 1025 Health every 1 second for 4 seconds.

2. Rushed Ceremony - Beacon your inner light, healing yourself or a wounded ally for 1235 Health.
No Change.
Honor the Dead (Morph)- Healing anyone who is below 75% Health restores 60% of the ability's cost over 6 seconds as Magicka.
Healing increased to 1410, but only targets caster.
Breath of Life (Morph)- Also heals one other injured target for 397.
Heals two injured targets for 1235 Health but only heals the caster at 70% for 864 Health.

Note: Rework skill to HoT
3. Healing Ritual - Focus your spiritual devotion, healing yourself and nearby allies for 1235 Health.
Changes to Heal over Time; Focus your spiritual devotion, healing yourself and nearby allies for 1506 Health over 6 seconds.
Ritual of Rebirth (Morph) - You heal a single ally outside this ability's radius for an additional 614 Health.
The healing is increased up to 20% more based on missing Health.
Hasty Prayer (Morph) - Affected targets gain Minor Expedition, increasing their movement speed 10% for 5 seconds.
Increase the healing over a shorter duration of 4 seconds.

Remove Skill Completely – Replaced by new version of Sun Shield and renamed.
4. Restoring Aura - Champion the cause of divine glory to apply Minor Magickasteal to all enemies around you for 15 seconds, causing you and your allies to restore 300 Magicka every 1 second when damaging them. While slotted, you gain Minor Fortitude, Minor Endurance, and Minor Intellect, increasing Health, Stamina, and Magicka Recovery by 10%.
Light Shield - Surround yourself with light rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs 175 Damage for 6 seconds. Damage shield strength capped at 40% of your Max Health.
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4%. Cost = 3240 Magicka, 6 second duration, 5m Radius.
Radiant Aura (Morph) - Increases the radius
Radiant Ward (Morph) - Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength on caster by 6%.
Provides additional shield to closest nearby Ally. Cost = 3240 Magicka, 6 second duration, 5m Radius.
Repentance (Morph) - Consecrate the souls of the fallen, healing you and your allies for 2702 Health and restoring 2702 Stamina to you each corpse in the area. No Longer applies Minor Magickasteal on activation, instead, you consume corpses to restore Health and Stamina.
Blazing Shield (Morph) – CONVERTS TO STAMINA ABILITY. Each nearby enemy reduces incoming damage by 4% when the shield is activated. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 50% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies as Physical Damage. Cost=3240 Stamina, 6 second duration, 5m Radius.

5. Cleansing Ritual - Exalt in the sacred light of the Aedra, cleansing up to 2 harmful effects from yourself immediately, and healing you and nearby allies for 135 every 2 seconds for 12 seconds.
Allies can also activate the Purify synergy, removing all harmful effects from themselves and healing them for an additional 667.
Increase the Heal over Time to 149 every 2 seconds for 12 seconds.
Ritual of Retribution (Morph) - Increases the healing to 166 every 2 seconds for 12 seconds.
The light also burns enemies with holy vengeance, dealing 166 Magic Damage every 2 seconds for 12 seconds.
No Changes.
Extended Ritual (Morph) - Increases the duration to 18 seconds and the amount of harmful effects up to 5.
Reduce amount of harmful effects removed to 4. Provides immunity to Snare/Disabling effects for 3 seconds.

New Animation to Self, instead of ground animation.
6. Rune Focus - Create a rune of celestial protection. While active, the rune grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280. Standing within the rune increases Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance granted by 50%.
Cast runes on (-or- around) your body of celestial protection. While active, the runes grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280. Duration increased to 24 seconds on base ability.
Note: Removal of Minor Protection from Aedric Spear Passive "Piercing Spear" from above, if you forgot already.
Channeled Focus (Morph) - You also recover 240 Magicka every 1 second.
You gain Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken 8% for 18 seconds. You also recover 240 Magicka every 1 second for 18 seconds. Duration increased to 25 seconds on base ability.
Restoring Focus (Morph) - You also recover 240 Stamina every 1 second.
You gain Minor Protection, reducing your damage taken 8% for 18 seconds. You also recover 240 Stamina every 1 second for 18 seconds. Duration increased to 25 seconds on base ability.
Restoring Light Passives:
1. Mending - Increases the healing effects from your Restoring Light abilities by up to 6/12%, in proportion to the severity of the target's wounds. Increase to 7.5/15%
2. Sacred Ground - While standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them you gain Minor Mending, increasing your healing done by 8%. Enemies standing in your Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus or Rite of Passage areas of effect have their Movement Speed reduced by 15/30%. Change Minor Mending back to Major Mending. Movement Speed to enemies standing in Cleansing or Rite of Passage area reduced by 30/60%
3. Light Weaver - Provides bonuses for Restoring Light abilities:
Increases the duration of Restoring Aura by 10/20%. Healing Ritual grants 1/2 Ultimate to allies under 60% Health. Channeling Rite of Passage grants 8580/16500 Physical and Spell Resistance. Replaced with the passive ability from Restoring Aura: Your Health, Stamina and Magicka recovery are increased 5/10%.
4. Master Ritualist - Increases resurrection speed by 10/20%. Resurrected allies return with 50/100% more Health. Gives you a 50% chance to gain a soul gem after each successful resurrection. Replaced Passive with: Channeled abilities' times are reduced by 2.5/5%.

That's it! Hope you all enjoy. Remember, this thread is not a bashing contest. Constructive criticism is always welcome on topics of improvement or how you may feel some changes are too drastic or un-achievable. We are here to discuss how to improve our beloved Templar Class.

Wuuffyy

Omg tldr wall o text

Also: no to everything

Stx

I like sun shield how it is, it's a great tool for soloing and for tanking. Maybe just change one of the morphs to scale with magicka so non tanks can use it better.

The main thing that I like from your suggestions is the changes to spear shards. Templars just need a better aoe control spell for tanking.

Ajax_22

Strong no to about 90% of these changes. I don't have the time right now to go through all of them, so I'll just list the worst for me.

Shards: This is one of the largest parts of support build Templars. Removing the synergy would be complete gut to us.

Rushed Ceremony: One of the defining skills for Templar healers. Currently both morphs serve a purpose, and are very well ballanced. This change would remove the choice from healers.

Sacred Ground: We need to reduce snares not make them stronger. The snare needs to be removed from this passive, and replaced with something else.

If half of your changes went through it would be single largest gut to effectiveness, and build diversity healers have ever seen.

JadonSky

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Omg tldr wall o text

Also: no to everything

Yeah I kinda of agree. All the changes to spear skill line to stamina like toppiling charge no thanks. Also removing Jesus beam as an execute *** no.

Feels like you are trying to make templar even worse.

ccmedaddy

No to pretty much everything. Especially the Backlash and Jesus Beam changes. Just no.

Jabbs_Giggity

Stx wrote: »

I like sun shield how it is, it's a great tool for soloing and for tanking. Maybe just change one of the morphs to scale with magicka so non tanks can use it better.

The main thing that I like from your suggestions is the changes to spear shards. Templars just need a better aoe control spell for tanking.

Thanks for taking the time to read and discuss on this. Sun Shield is a great tool for soloing and tanking, yes. However, the idea behind removing Sun Shield was to increase DPS capability in the Aedric Skill line and is reworked in to the Restoring Skill line to still provide both tanking and solo play on a Magicka and Stamina platform.

Remove Skill Completely – Replaced by new version of Sun Shield and renamed.
4. Restoring Aura - Champion the cause of divine glory to apply Minor Magickasteal to all enemies around you for 15 seconds, causing you and your allies to restore 300 Magicka every 1 second when damaging them. While slotted, you gain Minor Fortitude, Minor Endurance, and Minor Intellect, increasing Health, Stamina, and Magicka Recovery by 10%.
Light Shield - Surround yourself with light rays, granting a damage shield that absorbs 175 Damage for 6 seconds. Damage shield strength capped at 40% of your Max Health. Base for damage mitigation
Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength by 4%. Cost = 3240 Magicka, 6 second duration, 5m Radius.
Radiant Aura (Morph) - Increases the radius
Radiant Ward (Morph) - Each nearby enemy increases the shield's strength on caster by 6%.
Provides additional shield to closest nearby Ally. Cost = 3240 Magicka, 6 second duration, 5m Radius.
Magicka variant for damage mitigation on self and allies
Repentance (Morph) - Consecrate the souls of the fallen, healing you and your allies for 2702 Health and restoring 2702 Stamina to you each corpse in the area. No Longer applies Minor Magickasteal on activation, instead, you consume corpses to restore Health and Stamina.
Blazing Shield (Morph) – CONVERTS TO STAMINA ABILITY. Each nearby enemy reduces incoming damage by 4% when the shield is activated. When the shield expires it explodes outward, dealing 50% of the damage absorbed to nearby enemies as Physical Damage. Cost=3240 Stamina, 6 second duration, 5m Radius.
Stamina version for damage return

technohic

I'd have to agree with others here. You are touching on things that do not need touched and things like adding block cost reduction to the dawns wrath which is mostly an offensive skill line. Actually should be going the other way and changing the 1 fire ability to magicka while you are suggesting the opposite. And you are asking for a miss chance ability that was considered OP before they even started to get rid of other miss chance abilities that were far less.

You are trying to completely redesign a class that really does not need it right now and maybe just a small tweak here and there is all that is needed

Jabbs_Giggity

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Strong no to about 90% of these changes. I don't have the time right now to go through all of them, so I'll just list the worst for me.

Shards: This is one of the largest parts of support build Templars. Removing the synergy would be complete gut to us.

Rushed Ceremony: One of the defining skills for Templar healers. Currently both morphs serve a purpose, and are very well ballanced. This change would remove the choice from healers.

Sacred Ground: We need to reduce snares not make them stronger. The snare needs to be removed from this passive, and replaced with something else.

If half of your changes went through it would be single largest gut to effectiveness, and build diversity healers have ever seen.

It's not all apples to apples, I agree. Also, thank you for taking the time to read and comment.

In regards to your comment about Shards. I do agree and went back and forth on the synergy. Personally, I do not see this Skill being used in any other aspec of ESO gameplay other than Healer roles. Perhaps retaining the Synergy on the Magicka-based Morph while dropping the Synergy on the Stamina-based Morph to favor the Snare to be better utilized for DPS and/or Tanking - the Snare would be great for a Templar Tank.

My initial thoughts for Rushed Ceremony (and Morphs) were two-fold.
1. PVP Solo play where arguments are made in abundance that the targeting system on Honor the Dead are atrocious. Often you are trying to self-heal near death, but end up healing a low health ally where you die instead.
2. PVE and Healer roles would prioritize the allies the healer is meant to heal, secondary to themselves.

If you have been following the community and play multiple classes you will notice a couple things:
1. Snares are prominent in ESO more now than ever to be a counter to faster-paced gameplay and mobility. Both of which Templars struggle with.
2. During Wrobel's time here, the thought of moving the Templar Class out of the "House Design" was appalling and never going to happen. To this statement I used emphasis on "If I lay down a house, it's to keep you out or punish you from coming in!"

I don't see how any of these changes would gut "effectiveness". Maybe I'm missing something that you're seeing, can you explain a little more? Most of these changes would bring an abundance of diversity to Templar Healers, perhaps it would overperform against other Class Healers, yes.

Jabbs_Giggity

JadonSky wrote: »

Feels like you are trying to make templar even worse.

Just to reiterate, I am not trying to make anything anything. I was simply providing alternatives to the current design, which revolved around a "stationary" class design that did not get updated with the current direction ZOS has taken ESO.

Thank you, though, for taking the time to read!

Jabbs_Giggity

technohic wrote: »

I'd have to agree with others here. You are touching on things that do not need touched and things like adding block cost reduction to the dawns wrath which is mostly an offensive skill line. Actually should be going the other way and changing the 1 fire ability to magicka while you are suggesting the opposite. And you are asking for a miss chance ability that was considered OP before they even started to get rid of other miss chance abilities that were far less.

You are trying to completely redesign a class that really does not need it right now and maybe just a small tweak here and there is all that is needed

Thanks @technohic . People are always going to bash new ideas, same as they do to ZOS for all their "new" ideas and changes. However, a very common argument on Templars is their lack of ability to properly Tank because of how ZOS has gutten core skills of the Templar.

Dawn's Wrath explicitly state's in its description "This Skill Line focuses primarily on dealing Fire Damage and the Passive Skills in the Line increase your effectiveness with these Skills as well as reduce the cost of abilities"

The idea behind the changes was to give Aedric a Magick/melee focus, Dawn's a Fire/range focus and retain Restoring to Healing/Buffing/Damage Mitigation.

Block Chance was OP. However, now you - in a PVP perspective - have classes that can cloak where attacks Miss, reflect all ranged skills, set opponents off balance or lock them down with CC's, or move at incredible speeds to avoid targeting altogether!

The Class does need an overhaul, it's been on the agenda of the community since One Tamriel.

md3788

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Strong no to about 90% of these changes. I don't have the time right now to go through all of them, so I'll just list the worst for me.

Shards: This is one of the largest parts of support build Templars. Removing the synergy would be complete gut to us.

Rushed Ceremony: One of the defining skills for Templar healers. Currently both morphs serve a purpose, and are very well ballanced. This change would remove the choice from healers.

Sacred Ground: We need to reduce snares not make them stronger. The snare needs to be removed from this passive, and replaced with something else.

If half of your changes went through it would be single largest gut to effectiveness, and build diversity healers have ever seen.

It's not all apples to apples, I agree. Also, thank you for taking the time to read and comment.

In regards to your comment about Shards. I do agree and went back and forth on the synergy. Personally, I do not see this Skill being used in any other aspec of ESO gameplay other than Healer roles. Perhaps retaining the Synergy on the Magicka-based Morph while dropping the Synergy on the Stamina-based Morph to favor the Snare to be better utilized for DPS and/or Tanking - the Snare would be great for a Templar Tank.

My initial thoughts for Rushed Ceremony (and Morphs) were two-fold.
1. PVP Solo play where arguments are made in abundance that the targeting system on Honor the Dead are atrocious. Often you are trying to self-heal near death, but end up healing a low health ally where you die instead.
2. PVE and Healer roles would prioritize the allies the healer is meant to heal, secondary to themselves.

If you have been following the community and play multiple classes you will notice a couple things:
1. Snares are prominent in ESO more now than ever to be a counter to faster-paced gameplay and mobility. Both of which Templars struggle with.
2. During Wrobel's time here, the thought of moving the Templar Class out of the "House Design" was appalling and never going to happen. To this statement I used emphasis on "If I lay down a house, it's to keep you out or punish you from coming in!"

I don't see how any of these changes would gut "effectiveness". Maybe I'm missing something that you're seeing, can you explain a little more? Most of these changes would bring an abundance of diversity to Templar Healers, perhaps it would overperform against other Class Healers, yes.

This is just inaccurate. Blazing Spear is used by Magicka damage dealers and it is just as strong, if not stronger than Wall of Elements. Converting this to a stamina ability and forcing them to use Luminous Shards would be a straight nerf for Magplars

jhall03

I didn't read the wall of text but kudos for the effort. Thing is Templar got a lot of love over the past year and is in a good spot, in my opinion. I doubt the devs are going to focus hard on the class for a while.

Also, there is a class feedback thread in the combat and character mechanics subforum. If you haven't, I would post all of this in that because the class reps are good about responding to that thread.

Jabbs_Giggity

jhall03 wrote: »

Also, there is a class feedback thread in the combat and character mechanics subforum. If you haven't, I would post all of this in that because the class reps are good about responding to that thread.

Thanks, it is mentioned in the opening of my thread that a link was posted to the Templar feedback thread. I posted it here because of a comment that @ZOS_GinaBruno posted requesting feedback of this "type" be posted in it's own thread, reserving the feedback threads as discussing the topics of Pain Points only for the Reps to take in to consideration during their meetings on what Classes are finding difficult to play with their respective classes.

Minno

some of these contradict themselves and some offer too much power when most templars agree that they are in a balanced spot. We just need passives reworked and bug fixes/skill adjustments.

Here are my edits, based on that intent:


Aedric Spear Skill Line:
1. Radial Sweep - increase range to match jabs/sweeps, solar barrage, etc. Otherwise fine.

2. Puncturing Strikes - Ability is fine. Also it should be immune to major evasion; it's fake AOE that has close single target mechanic reduced by easily available buff. Otherwise skills are fine. Drop snare down to 40% instead of 70% to make room for other buffs/changes. They made changes to sets like overwhelming surge which functions the same way but not jabs/reflective light.

3. Piercing Javelin - drop cost so it's cheaper than draining shot for stam toons, and cheaper than master destro reach for mag. Otherwise serves a purpose for some builds and competes with total dark/unstable core/destro reach.

4. Focused Charge -Increase the speed at which gap is closed; skill is too clunky and easy to see coming. Reduce the minimum distance from 3.5m to 1m. Explosive charge to pull enemies out of stealth around the initial target (currently bugged in that is doesn't). This is the only change they should do.

5. Spear Shards - is fine as is.

6. Sun Shield - blazing to become max mag scaled. Radiant ward to remain health scaled for tanks. Otherwise we need to test new bug fixes they added on PTS in live situations before suggesting any other changes to this ability.

Aedric Spear Passives:
1. Piercing Spear - fine as is. Ditch blocked dmg buff if needed for other changes.
2. Spear Wall - buff to 2/4 seconds because minor buffs are supposed to be higher uptime than major.
3. Burning Light - make effect unblocked/undodged as it's applied to your target and has a set cooldown/proc chance. Otherwise fine as is.
4. Balanced Warrior - fine as is.


Dawn’s Wrath Skill Line:
1. Nova - Fine as is. Group ultimate.

2. Sun Fire - crit buff proc off activation not hit and reflective light should not be reduced by major evasion. Otherwise fine.

3. Solar Flare – Dark flare to become similar to solar barrage. Renamed Dark Barrage; scales off stamina stats.

4. eclipse needs rework. Heres how:
- fix ability so that Total Dark's heal is buffed to 67% to account for the cooldown adjustment they made in clockwork city (dmg was increased to compensate but not the heal).
- Then make cc immunity ONLY applied when break free is used; cleansed or expired eclipses should be exempt. If current cc mechanic is to exist, then bubble should be be removed by any means.
- Unstable Core needs major rework. Here is Cinbri's suggestion:

Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

4. Backlash - fine as is. Group burst tool and designed as such.

5. Radiant Destruction – Fine as is. They fixed and buffed it.

Dawn’s Wrath Passives:
1. Enduring Rays - passive reworked. Move sun fire/solar barrage/eclipse 2 second duration increased to base abilities. Then add "increases the duration of your major/minor buffs by 1/3 seconds while an enduring ray passive is slotted."
2. Prism - fine as is.
3. Illuminate - fine as is.
4. Restoring Spirit - fine as is.

Restoring Light Skill Line: Lots of changes to skills and animations.
1. Right of Passage - fine as is with change due to light weaver below. Both morphs grant major protection with slight difference to how it functions in group play. Make one morph increase duration of channel while adding armor to you (much like remembrance works on live). Other morph grants major protection while channeling to allies healed but no extra armor to you.

2. Rushed Ceremony - no change. Fine as is.

3. Healing Ritual - Just drop the cost down on to be like 3 or 4k. One morph grants a HOT to an ally outside the radius. Then other has minor expedition for 6 seconds. Basically no change, just different heal mechanic than bol/htd.

4. Restoring Aura - Radiant Aura to be changed to grant Major Sorcery on application for 20 seconds. Then when enemies hit you, you apply minor mag steal on them for 5 seconds. Competes with ele drain; do you want major breach + single target minor mag steal or major sorcery+wizard reposte style proc chance off the minor mag steal?

5. Cleansing Ritual - rework to remove 1 or 2 debuffs but grant 1 or 2s of snare/root immunity. Change will only work if root/snare immunity removes the snares/immunity first then debuffs; otherwise no change needed.

6. Rune Focus - Fine as is.

Restoring Light Passives:
2. Mending - Drop to 5% instead of 15% extra healing to account for some of these changes. Also bring minor mending to this passive so it matches the name.
3. Sacred Ground - Remove snare mechanic to compensate for buffs/changes above and move minor mending to Mending passive. Then add, new effect. "Increase potency of heals made inside healing circles by 3/5%."
4. Light Weaver - Remove weird buff to skills. Instead make global heals on your self when cast on low health. "While healing at 50% Health or below, grant minor vitality and 2975 Physical and Spell Resistance for 8 seconds. " Also activating a synergy grants you 7/14 ultimate.
5. Master Ritualist - keep as is. Useless passive justified since buffs to other passives above.

Those are my changes. I think that version of templar has more soul compared to live. Updates useless passives, gives stamplar another morph+some much needed healing back, and updates some abilities that are otherwise useless/underused.

fullheartcontainer

in an attempt to be constructive, as a magplar/stamplar duo main, *everything* here sounds pretty bad

Jabbs_Giggity

md3788 wrote: »

This is just inaccurate. Blazing Spear is used by Magicka damage dealers and it is just as strong, if not stronger than Wall of Elements. Converting this to a stamina ability and forcing them to use Luminous Shards would be a straight nerf for Magplars

Thanks! Despite the nearly all argumentative comments against all the suggestions, I love that people are getting involved and sharing their personal experiences with the Class. As I have stated in the opening, I am PVP exclusive in my playstyle since One Tamriel.

Blazing Spear is a great DPS skill for Magicka Templars and I never said otherwise. I mentioned my personal experience playing and theory crafting with other Templars that most do not slot this as a DPS skill, unless in PVE/Dungeons/Trials. Many of the changes suggested would absolutely allow alternative DPS skills to be slotted at better efficiency for MagPlars, while giving some Tanking options to Tanks.

Jabbs_Giggity

Minno wrote: »

some of these contradict themselves and some offer too much power when most templars agree that they are in a balanced spot. We just need passives reworked and bug fixes/skill adjustments.

Here are my edits, based on that intent:


Aedric Spear Skill Line:
1. Radial Sweep - increase range to match jabs/sweeps, solar barrage, etc. Otherwise fine.

2. Puncturing Strikes - Ability is fine. Also it should be immune to major evasion; it's fake AOE that has close single target mechanic reduced by easily available buff. Otherwise skills are fine. Drop snare down to 40% instead of 70% to make room for other buffs/changes. They made changes to sets like overwhelming surge which functions the same way but not jabs/reflective light.

3. Piercing Javelin - drop cost so it's cheaper than draining shot for stam toons, and cheaper than master destro reach for mag. Otherwise serves a purpose for some builds and competes with total dark/unstable core/destro reach.

4. Focused Charge -Increase the speed at which gap is closed; skill is too clunky and easy to see coming. Reduce the minimum distance from 3.5m to 1m. Explosive charge to pull enemies out of stealth around the initial target (currently bugged in that is doesn't). This is the only change they should do.

5. Spear Shards - is fine as is.

6. Sun Shield - blazing to become max mag scaled. Radiant ward to remain health scaled for tanks. Otherwise we need to test new bug fixes they added on PTS in live situations before suggesting any other changes to this ability.

Aedric Spear Passives:
1. Piercing Spear - fine as is. Ditch blocked dmg buff if needed for other changes.
2. Spear Wall - buff to 2/4 seconds because minor buffs are supposed to be higher uptime than major.
3. Burning Light - make effect unblocked/undodged as it's applied to your target and has a set cooldown/proc chance. Otherwise fine as is.
4. Balanced Warrior - fine as is.


Dawn’s Wrath Skill Line:
1. Nova - Fine as is. Group ultimate.

2. Sun Fire - crit buff proc off activation not hit and reflective light should not be reduced by major evasion. Otherwise fine.

3. Solar Flare – Dark flare to become similar to solar barrage. Renamed Dark Barrage; scales off stamina stats.

4. eclipse needs rework. Heres how:
- fix ability so that Total Dark's heal is buffed to 67% to account for the cooldown adjustment they made in clockwork city (dmg was increased to compensate but not the heal).
- Then make cc immunity ONLY applied when break free is used; cleansed or expired eclipses should be exempt. If current cc mechanic is to exist, then bubble should be be removed by any means.
- Unstable Core needs major rework. Here is Cinbri's suggestion:

Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

4. Backlash - fine as is. Group burst tool and designed as such.

5. Radiant Destruction – Fine as is. They fixed and buffed it.

Dawn’s Wrath Passives:
1. Enduring Rays - passive reworked. Move sun fire/solar barrage/eclipse 2 second duration increased to base abilities. Then add "increases the duration of your major/minor buffs by 1/3 seconds while an enduring ray passive is slotted."
2. Prism - fine as is.
3. Illuminate - fine as is.
4. Restoring Spirit - fine as is.

Restoring Light Skill Line: Lots of changes to skills and animations.
1. Right of Passage - fine as is with change due to light weaver below. Both morphs grant major protection with slight difference to how it functions in group play. Make one morph increase duration of channel while adding armor to you (much like remembrance works on live). Other morph grants major protection while channeling to allies healed but no extra armor to you.

2. Rushed Ceremony - no change. Fine as is.

3. Healing Ritual - Just drop the cost down on to be like 3 or 4k. One morph grants a HOT to an ally outside the radius. Then other has minor expedition for 6 seconds. Basically no change, just different heal mechanic than bol/htd.

4. Restoring Aura - Radiant Aura to be changed to grant Major Sorcery on application for 20 seconds. Then when enemies hit you, you apply minor mag steal on them for 5 seconds. Competes with ele drain; do you want major breach + single target minor mag steal or major sorcery+wizard reposte style proc chance off the minor mag steal?

5. Cleansing Ritual - rework to remove 1 or 2 debuffs but grant 1 or 2s of snare/root immunity. Change will only work if root/snare immunity removes the snares/immunity first then debuffs; otherwise no change needed.

6. Rune Focus - Fine as is.

Restoring Light Passives:
2. Mending - Drop to 5% instead of 15% extra healing to account for some of these changes. Also bring minor mending to this passive so it matches the name.
3. Sacred Ground - Remove snare mechanic to compensate for buffs/changes above and move minor mending to Mending passive. Then add, new effect. "Increase potency of heals made inside healing circles by 3/5%."
4. Light Weaver - Remove weird buff to skills. Instead make global heals on your self when cast on low health. "While healing at 50% Health or below, grant minor vitality and 2975 Physical and Spell Resistance for 8 seconds. " Also activating a synergy grants you 7/14 ultimate.
5. Master Ritualist - keep as is. Useless passive justified since buffs to other passives above.

Those are my changes. I think that version of templar has more soul compared to live. Updates useless passives, gives stamplar another morph+some much needed healing back, and updates some abilities that are otherwise useless/underused.

I like a lot of your suggestions. Wouldn't be fair to have a skill give Major Sorcery, but not Brutality option. I am about to walk in to daughter's Vball practice so can't comment on more. However I love the feedback.

Minno

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

some of these contradict themselves and some offer too much power when most templars agree that they are in a balanced spot. We just need passives reworked and bug fixes/skill adjustments.

Here are my edits, based on that intent:


Aedric Spear Skill Line:
1. Radial Sweep - increase range to match jabs/sweeps, solar barrage, etc. Otherwise fine.

2. Puncturing Strikes - Ability is fine. Also it should be immune to major evasion; it's fake AOE that has close single target mechanic reduced by easily available buff. Otherwise skills are fine. Drop snare down to 40% instead of 70% to make room for other buffs/changes. They made changes to sets like overwhelming surge which functions the same way but not jabs/reflective light.

3. Piercing Javelin - drop cost so it's cheaper than draining shot for stam toons, and cheaper than master destro reach for mag. Otherwise serves a purpose for some builds and competes with total dark/unstable core/destro reach.

4. Focused Charge -Increase the speed at which gap is closed; skill is too clunky and easy to see coming. Reduce the minimum distance from 3.5m to 1m. Explosive charge to pull enemies out of stealth around the initial target (currently bugged in that is doesn't). This is the only change they should do.

5. Spear Shards - is fine as is.

6. Sun Shield - blazing to become max mag scaled. Radiant ward to remain health scaled for tanks. Otherwise we need to test new bug fixes they added on PTS in live situations before suggesting any other changes to this ability.

Aedric Spear Passives:
1. Piercing Spear - fine as is. Ditch blocked dmg buff if needed for other changes.
2. Spear Wall - buff to 2/4 seconds because minor buffs are supposed to be higher uptime than major.
3. Burning Light - make effect unblocked/undodged as it's applied to your target and has a set cooldown/proc chance. Otherwise fine as is.
4. Balanced Warrior - fine as is.


Dawn’s Wrath Skill Line:
1. Nova - Fine as is. Group ultimate.

2. Sun Fire - crit buff proc off activation not hit and reflective light should not be reduced by major evasion. Otherwise fine.

3. Solar Flare – Dark flare to become similar to solar barrage. Renamed Dark Barrage; scales off stamina stats.

4. eclipse needs rework. Heres how:
- fix ability so that Total Dark's heal is buffed to 67% to account for the cooldown adjustment they made in clockwork city (dmg was increased to compensate but not the heal).
- Then make cc immunity ONLY applied when break free is used; cleansed or expired eclipses should be exempt. If current cc mechanic is to exist, then bubble should be be removed by any means.
- Unstable Core needs major rework. Here is Cinbri's suggestion:

Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

4. Backlash - fine as is. Group burst tool and designed as such.

5. Radiant Destruction – Fine as is. They fixed and buffed it.

Dawn’s Wrath Passives:
1. Enduring Rays - passive reworked. Move sun fire/solar barrage/eclipse 2 second duration increased to base abilities. Then add "increases the duration of your major/minor buffs by 1/3 seconds while an enduring ray passive is slotted."
2. Prism - fine as is.
3. Illuminate - fine as is.
4. Restoring Spirit - fine as is.

Restoring Light Skill Line: Lots of changes to skills and animations.
1. Right of Passage - fine as is with change due to light weaver below. Both morphs grant major protection with slight difference to how it functions in group play. Make one morph increase duration of channel while adding armor to you (much like remembrance works on live). Other morph grants major protection while channeling to allies healed but no extra armor to you.

2. Rushed Ceremony - no change. Fine as is.

3. Healing Ritual - Just drop the cost down on to be like 3 or 4k. One morph grants a HOT to an ally outside the radius. Then other has minor expedition for 6 seconds. Basically no change, just different heal mechanic than bol/htd.

4. Restoring Aura - Radiant Aura to be changed to grant Major Sorcery on application for 20 seconds. Then when enemies hit you, you apply minor mag steal on them for 5 seconds. Competes with ele drain; do you want major breach + single target minor mag steal or major sorcery+wizard reposte style proc chance off the minor mag steal?

5. Cleansing Ritual - rework to remove 1 or 2 debuffs but grant 1 or 2s of snare/root immunity. Change will only work if root/snare immunity removes the snares/immunity first then debuffs; otherwise no change needed.

6. Rune Focus - Fine as is.

Restoring Light Passives:
2. Mending - Drop to 5% instead of 15% extra healing to account for some of these changes. Also bring minor mending to this passive so it matches the name.
3. Sacred Ground - Remove snare mechanic to compensate for buffs/changes above and move minor mending to Mending passive. Then add, new effect. "Increase potency of heals made inside healing circles by 3/5%."
4. Light Weaver - Remove weird buff to skills. Instead make global heals on your self when cast on low health. "While healing at 50% Health or below, grant minor vitality and 2975 Physical and Spell Resistance for 8 seconds. " Also activating a synergy grants you 7/14 ultimate.
5. Master Ritualist - keep as is. Useless passive justified since buffs to other passives above.

Those are my changes. I think that version of templar has more soul compared to live. Updates useless passives, gives stamplar another morph+some much needed healing back, and updates some abilities that are otherwise useless/underused.

I like a lot of your suggestions. Wouldn't be fair to have a skill give Major Sorcery, but not Brutality option. I am about to walk in to daughter's Vball practice so can't comment on more. However I love the feedback.

remember stamina has access to rally. That skill is a better version than what magplars have access to, and removing access to a weapon line makes stamplar feel less martial which should be avoided.

Jabbs_Giggity

Minno wrote: »

remember stamina has access to rally. That skill is a better version than what magplars have access to, and removing access to a weapon line makes stamplar feel less martial which should be avoided.

Yes, but this restricts you to being forced to slot 2H no matter what. I would love the option to play DW/Bow or SnB effectively. Every class has access to Sorcery and Brutality. Templar has neither.

technohic

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

some of these contradict themselves and some offer too much power when most templars agree that they are in a balanced spot. We just need passives reworked and bug fixes/skill adjustments.

Here are my edits, based on that intent:


Aedric Spear Skill Line:
1. Radial Sweep - increase range to match jabs/sweeps, solar barrage, etc. Otherwise fine.

2. Puncturing Strikes - Ability is fine. Also it should be immune to major evasion; it's fake AOE that has close single target mechanic reduced by easily available buff. Otherwise skills are fine. Drop snare down to 40% instead of 70% to make room for other buffs/changes. They made changes to sets like overwhelming surge which functions the same way but not jabs/reflective light.

3. Piercing Javelin - drop cost so it's cheaper than draining shot for stam toons, and cheaper than master destro reach for mag. Otherwise serves a purpose for some builds and competes with total dark/unstable core/destro reach.

4. Focused Charge -Increase the speed at which gap is closed; skill is too clunky and easy to see coming. Reduce the minimum distance from 3.5m to 1m. Explosive charge to pull enemies out of stealth around the initial target (currently bugged in that is doesn't). This is the only change they should do.

5. Spear Shards - is fine as is.

6. Sun Shield - blazing to become max mag scaled. Radiant ward to remain health scaled for tanks. Otherwise we need to test new bug fixes they added on PTS in live situations before suggesting any other changes to this ability.

Aedric Spear Passives:
1. Piercing Spear - fine as is. Ditch blocked dmg buff if needed for other changes.
2. Spear Wall - buff to 2/4 seconds because minor buffs are supposed to be higher uptime than major.
3. Burning Light - make effect unblocked/undodged as it's applied to your target and has a set cooldown/proc chance. Otherwise fine as is.
4. Balanced Warrior - fine as is.


Dawn’s Wrath Skill Line:
1. Nova - Fine as is. Group ultimate.

2. Sun Fire - crit buff proc off activation not hit and reflective light should not be reduced by major evasion. Otherwise fine.

3. Solar Flare – Dark flare to become similar to solar barrage. Renamed Dark Barrage; scales off stamina stats.

4. eclipse needs rework. Heres how:
- fix ability so that Total Dark's heal is buffed to 67% to account for the cooldown adjustment they made in clockwork city (dmg was increased to compensate but not the heal).
- Then make cc immunity ONLY applied when break free is used; cleansed or expired eclipses should be exempt. If current cc mechanic is to exist, then bubble should be be removed by any means.
- Unstable Core needs major rework. Here is Cinbri's suggestion:

Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

4. Backlash - fine as is. Group burst tool and designed as such.

5. Radiant Destruction – Fine as is. They fixed and buffed it.

Dawn’s Wrath Passives:
1. Enduring Rays - passive reworked. Move sun fire/solar barrage/eclipse 2 second duration increased to base abilities. Then add "increases the duration of your major/minor buffs by 1/3 seconds while an enduring ray passive is slotted."
2. Prism - fine as is.
3. Illuminate - fine as is.
4. Restoring Spirit - fine as is.

Restoring Light Skill Line: Lots of changes to skills and animations.
1. Right of Passage - fine as is with change due to light weaver below. Both morphs grant major protection with slight difference to how it functions in group play. Make one morph increase duration of channel while adding armor to you (much like remembrance works on live). Other morph grants major protection while channeling to allies healed but no extra armor to you.

2. Rushed Ceremony - no change. Fine as is.

3. Healing Ritual - Just drop the cost down on to be like 3 or 4k. One morph grants a HOT to an ally outside the radius. Then other has minor expedition for 6 seconds. Basically no change, just different heal mechanic than bol/htd.

4. Restoring Aura - Radiant Aura to be changed to grant Major Sorcery on application for 20 seconds. Then when enemies hit you, you apply minor mag steal on them for 5 seconds. Competes with ele drain; do you want major breach + single target minor mag steal or major sorcery+wizard reposte style proc chance off the minor mag steal?

5. Cleansing Ritual - rework to remove 1 or 2 debuffs but grant 1 or 2s of snare/root immunity. Change will only work if root/snare immunity removes the snares/immunity first then debuffs; otherwise no change needed.

6. Rune Focus - Fine as is.

Restoring Light Passives:
2. Mending - Drop to 5% instead of 15% extra healing to account for some of these changes. Also bring minor mending to this passive so it matches the name.
3. Sacred Ground - Remove snare mechanic to compensate for buffs/changes above and move minor mending to Mending passive. Then add, new effect. "Increase potency of heals made inside healing circles by 3/5%."
4. Light Weaver - Remove weird buff to skills. Instead make global heals on your self when cast on low health. "While healing at 50% Health or below, grant minor vitality and 2975 Physical and Spell Resistance for 8 seconds. " Also activating a synergy grants you 7/14 ultimate.
5. Master Ritualist - keep as is. Useless passive justified since buffs to other passives above.

Those are my changes. I think that version of templar has more soul compared to live. Updates useless passives, gives stamplar another morph+some much needed healing back, and updates some abilities that are otherwise useless/underused.

I like a lot of your suggestions. Wouldn't be fair to have a skill give Major Sorcery, but not Brutality option. I am about to walk in to daughter's Vball practice so can't comment on more. However I love the feedback.

Theres so many sources for major brutality though. But maybe repentance could be redesigned. It tends to give the stam/health when you no longer are desperate for it.

Jabbs_Giggity

technohic wrote: »

Theres so many sources for major brutality though. But maybe repentance could be redesigned. It tends to give the stam/health when you no longer are desperate for it.

The only options for a Stamplar to get Brutality are 2H, Pots or Set that no one uses. Unless you have a dedicated DK running their group Brutality skill every time you play. Correct me if my information is incomplete?

FrancisCrawford

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

In regards to your comment about Shards. I do agree and went back and forth on the synergy. Personally, I do not see this Skill being used in any other aspec of ESO gameplay other than Healer roles.

I hope this doesn't shock you: Some people believe that having a strong, unique skill for healing is important and fun.

kringled_1

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Theres so many sources for major brutality though. But maybe repentance could be redesigned. It tends to give the stam/health when you no longer are desperate for it.

The only options for a Stamplar to get Brutality are 2H, Pots or Set that no one uses. Unless you have a dedicated DK running their group Brutality skill every time you play. Correct me if my information is incomplete?

DW, hidden blade and morphs give major brutality.

Jabbs_Giggity

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

In regards to your comment about Shards. I do agree and went back and forth on the synergy. Personally, I do not see this Skill being used in any other aspec of ESO gameplay other than Healer roles.

I hope this doesn't shock you: Some people believe that having a strong, unique skill for healing is important and fun.

Not sure what you're implying...the whole magicka version of the skill is geared towards healers and DPS.

Jabbs_Giggity

kringled_1 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Theres so many sources for major brutality though. But maybe repentance could be redesigned. It tends to give the stam/health when you no longer are desperate for it.

The only options for a Stamplar to get Brutality are 2H, Pots or Set that no one uses. Unless you have a dedicated DK running their group Brutality skill every time you play. Correct me if my information is incomplete?

DW, hidden blade and morphs give major brutality.

Thank you! Forgot about Hidden Blade. Tried it and more often than not very hard to target with in PVP due to how ZOS changed mobility options. Also, its damage seemed very weak and insufficient to suggest slotting.

Stx

Templars should have a class option to gain major sorcery...

cpuScientist

Well like the devs have said. Provide solid reasoning for why you think any of this is needed more than just 'I feel' like show specifically where it underperforms.

But on a whole I mean I have played magPlar alot and the class is finally back in PvE they have good sustain high damage and ease of rotation. In PvP they are amazing Missing perhaps a snare immunity or escape option and have to rely on vampirism more than most. But even still are very strong usually placing high or winning duel championships. And doing very well open world nowadays. MagPlar is in a very solid spot right now.

StamPlar would in pve is usually brought for potl and does competitive DPS however stamBlades have an execute and easy access to minor berserk so are usually used over every class if they can. StamPlar PvP are good not the best or worst.

MagPlar and stamPlar got the things they needed most respectively fixed. Radiant deals good damage again and stamPlars can sustain and repent.

Minor tweaks are warranted like maybe making jabs more responsive giving it the radiant oppression treatment of lower channel time lower cost tad lower damage to allow more weaving. Giving a range increase on crescent. (I don't know many stamPlars using their new morph either)

But this complete overhaul is way too much. You need to show and give real examples of why it's underperforming and in need of change.

You say you are mainly PvP now alot of what you suggested would wreck PvE so you need to keep that in mind. BUT if you had to change 1 thing only about each magPlar and stamPlar for PvP what would it be? For me what this class feels like it lacks is a mobility option as in something that facilities some movement out of snares roots and the like. Purging them doesn't really help and this class this has to rely far too much on mist form. But what is the one thing you think needs to change. This just reads like (you know what would be cool!)

md3788

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

This is just inaccurate. Blazing Spear is used by Magicka damage dealers and it is just as strong, if not stronger than Wall of Elements. Converting this to a stamina ability and forcing them to use Luminous Shards would be a straight nerf for Magplars

Thanks! Despite the nearly all argumentative comments against all the suggestions, I love that people are getting involved and sharing their personal experiences with the Class. As I have stated in the opening, I am PVP exclusive in my playstyle since One Tamriel.

Blazing Spear is a great DPS skill for Magicka Templars and I never said otherwise. I mentioned my personal experience playing and theory crafting with other Templars that most do not slot this as a DPS skill, unless in PVE/Dungeons/Trials. Many of the changes suggested would absolutely allow alternative DPS skills to be slotted at better efficiency for MagPlars, while giving some Tanking options to Tanks.

You just hit on the biggest problem with balancing in ESO. Balancing for PvP affects PvE, and vise versa. While no one in PvP may use blazing, all Magplars in PvE do. There isn't another AOE dot that can replace it.

cpuScientist

md3788 wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

This is just inaccurate. Blazing Spear is used by Magicka damage dealers and it is just as strong, if not stronger than Wall of Elements. Converting this to a stamina ability and forcing them to use Luminous Shards would be a straight nerf for Magplars

Thanks! Despite the nearly all argumentative comments against all the suggestions, I love that people are getting involved and sharing their personal experiences with the Class. As I have stated in the opening, I am PVP exclusive in my playstyle since One Tamriel.

Blazing Spear is a great DPS skill for Magicka Templars and I never said otherwise. I mentioned my personal experience playing and theory crafting with other Templars that most do not slot this as a DPS skill, unless in PVE/Dungeons/Trials. Many of the changes suggested would absolutely allow alternative DPS skills to be slotted at better efficiency for MagPlars, while giving some Tanking options to Tanks.

You just hit on the biggest problem with balancing in ESO. Balancing for PvP affects PvE, and vise versa. While no one in PvP may use blazing, all Magplars in PvE do. There isn't another AOE dot that can replace it.

Ice wall has seen plenty of use. And blazing isn't the best more for PvP I'd say luminous is and that's ok, all morphs of all skills are not best for all situations. But luminous is used alot in PvP by healers or more support oriented DPS. I mean liquid lightning isn't used not I'd lightning flood except for niche harmony bullshittery. All classes don't use all skills in PvP and PvE and there are better morphs in certain contents but luminous and even blazing has a nice use in PvP for more support oriented builds. For just pure damage builds there are far better skills. And in the weapon lines there options like a 60% snare ice wall that roots!

Elsterchen

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Theres so many sources for major brutality though. But maybe repentance could be redesigned. It tends to give the stam/health when you no longer are desperate for it.

The only options for a Stamplar to get Brutality are 2H, Pots or Set that no one uses. Unless you have a dedicated DK running their group Brutality skill every time you play. Correct me if my information is incomplete?

Hidden blade (and morphs)

Its not perfect but once you get used to it, it works like a charm.

Imo the range reduction made it even harder to play (in PVP), you need to be close up now, and willing to push - or its not an option anymore

edit: I came back to DW/DW ... I just don#t like the slow swing of 2H and Bows are comfy, but ... well... I don#t get them to hit for good dmg.