What the hell is up with dps?

Tigerseye · October 2019

fierackas wrote: »

Another consideration is time - a lot of people log in for an hour or two to play - if harder content is now going to take twice as long that content becomes unavailable for those more casual players - they will soon lose interest in that case and look elsewhere.

Well, that is kind of a separate issue, isn't it?

Maybe hard content is too hard for the average player?

If almost everyone has felt forced to roll a certain (OP) class and build, just so they could burn down a boss (rather than observing mechanics), maybe this stuff is just too hard for what it is?

I certainly don't see much of a learning curve, personally.

Sebar80 · October 2019

Tigerseye wrote: »

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Hey @mongoLC

Forgetting the DPS for a moment, what did you feel about the fight?

Was it more engaging having to deal with the mechanics? Do you feel better/worse when you defeated the boss?

I know I have had battles where everyone’s dps has been lower than usual, we’ve had to work harder and the sense of elation at the end when we won was so much better than if we’d simply burnt the boss.

And if you completed the dungeon does DPS actually matter?

Your boss will be happy to know how easy is for you to transform to live with a half wage into a satisfiying challenge.
THe guy feels frustrated and stoled.
Go to an hospital to tell the amputated how happy they must be facing the new chalenges of a disabled life...

Don't think of it as having been "amputated" - you have just had your DPS rationalised, along with everyone else.

Numbers don't matter in an MMO - what matters is balance and how your numbers and performance compare to everyone else's.

You're not alone - everyone, who had OP DPS previously, is in the same boat.

Sustain, on the other hand, matters.

Try enchanting for sustain.

If you find you still have issues, after doing that, then I think you would have every right to come back and complain.

Porky pies or you have no idea what are you talking about.
Tell it to every progression group trying to clear their first CR, AS, MoL or whatever or anyone trying to push first MA. Numbers doesn't matter just enjoy all your progress being thrown out of the window and start again, eveyting they have learned over the last 6 months is worth zero, time to enchant for sustain.

With more dps and good sustain for last 6 months more people were able to complete content they wanted now they were rationalised to buy more carry runs in the future if they want this silver skin from AS.

This is not a problem of people with OP dps, its a middle that is crushed the most.

Casuals running normals or picking flowers will hardly notice the difference. Top end will either adopt or leave game the middle would be pushed to the bottom with little hope to progress.

Finally if i was able to run old dungeon in 10 minutes, i dont see the reason to now spend 20 minutes now, i chose not to run it at all

fierackas · October 2019

Tigerseye wrote: »

fierackas wrote: »

Another consideration is time - a lot of people log in for an hour or two to play - if harder content is now going to take twice as long that content becomes unavailable for those more casual players - they will soon lose interest in that case and look elsewhere.

Well, that is kind of a separate issue, isn't it?

Maybe hard content is too hard for the average player?

If almost everyone has felt forced to roll a certain (OP) class and build, just so they could burn down a boss (rather than observing mechanics), maybe this stuff is just too hard for what it is?

I certainly don't see much of a learning curve, personally.

That's not what I'm saying. If the nerfs result in all combat taking a lot longer then ergo most content will take longer. If you only have a couple of hours to play and say a DLC dungeon will now take 3 hours instead of 2 you won't be doing it.

chrightt · October 2019

Maybe stop trying to spam the AoE skills that were nerfed and use single target ability rotations when you’re fighting a single boss. Last patch was DPS overload for DPS.

Vahrokh · October 2019

chrightt wrote: »

Maybe stop trying to spam the AoE skills that were nerfed and use single target ability rotations when you’re fighting a single boss. Last patch was DPS overload for DPS.

There are classes whole flavour goes hand in hand with AoE. I play a lightning spec magsorc. I expect to be "master of AoE" (because that's what we have always been and what "mages" are in every game) and master of pets.

One of our last standing class defining abilities used to be Liquid Lightning, which happens to be the one ability to give Alkosh bonus. It's AoE and it's just allright that it did good damage. The remaining abilities for a lightning sorc don't do good single target damage at all, that spell at least made us somewhat viable.
Now it does half of the damage it should and costs 30% more than it should.
It's equivalent to removing it from the game.

Sure, I slotted another, impersonal, bland, general other ability in place of that. It's still AoE (so the problem is NOT fixed), does more damage and costs less.

So what has achieved emasculating one of our last class abilities, again?

Commancho · October 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

Maybe stop trying to spam the AoE skills that were nerfed and use single target ability rotations when you’re fighting a single boss. Last patch was DPS overload for DPS.

There are classes whole flavour goes hand in hand with AoE. I play a lightning spec magsorc. I expect to be "master of AoE" (because that's what we have always been and what "mages" are in every game) and master of pets.

ZoS says you have to be inferno staff single target master weaver on every magic class.

Kagukan · October 2019

Lost a little DPS and the game is trash. So glade I don't use any kind of DPS tracking. It sucks the fun out of a game.

Loves_guars · October 2019

Galarthor wrote: »

mongoLC wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Even with the nerfs Necro should still pull good numbers, i would recommend refining your rotation.

Yeah i'm sure I could do better on my mage nightblade or stam sorc but man this is going to ruin newer players. I never had a super great rotation on my mage necro but I could usually always pull good numbers you should be able to on any class with any gear when your 1641cp.

No it is not. People cleared those dungeons way before we had that insane upwards spiral for DPS in recent updates. You know, when DPS were around 30k to 40k instead of 100k to 110k. Dungeons never changed, but DPS tripled. That nerf was overdue, especially after the insane DoT dps we had with the previous update.

You are right I remember around the Imperial City DLC people saying you needed 20k dps to complete them and they even nerfed those dungeons recently. Bosses had mecanics, you can't even see them today.
On the other hand, it's a bummer when you are used to killing certain boss in 30 secs and suddenly takes triple time so I understand the frustration. Zos should've been more careful.

Veinblood1965 · October 2019

logarifmik wrote: »

Can I have your stuff?

Freaking beat me to it!

Gundug · October 2019

I’ve been playing this game since Orsinium came out, and watching the forums blow up every single patch without fail. The game has been killed and made unplayable by the developers for years now, apparently, yet with each successive patch, players despair that the game is changing from how the last, largely despised patch changed the game.

The game will continue changing as long as it exists. What works best now will not work as well, or maybe at all, in the future. Those who enjoy the game will adapt, and if the pattern of progression remains as it has, will become stronger and more effective than previously.

Nevasca · October 2019

mongoLC wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Hey @mongoLC

Forgetting the DPS for a moment, what did you feel about the fight?

Was it more engaging having to deal with the mechanics? Do you feel better/worse when you defeated the boss?

I know I have had battles where everyone’s dps has been lower than usual, we’ve had to work harder and the sense of elation at the end when we won was so much better than if we’d simply burnt the boss.

And if you completed the dungeon does DPS actually matter?

I didn't enjoy running out of resources even when I switched from Artaeum Pickled Fish Bowl to Witchmother’s Potent Brew. I'm not willing to run 4k regen and have 1.5 spell damage if that. My character is a breton figure I am just going to sit this *** show out. Login today reset all my skill points for free and not logon till next dlc and only if sustain is fixed.
Like a lot of other people I have had enough.

DPS loss and less resources. Sounds like your healer wasn't using ele drain.

Sebar80 · October 2019

chrightt wrote: »

Maybe stop trying to spam the AoE skills that were nerfed and use single target ability rotations when you’re fighting a single boss. Last patch was DPS overload for DPS.

Sure lets just agree to have 10 skills for everyone in total, maybe have slightly different visuals for each class in the name of class identity and call it a day.

Aoe skills were nerfed and their sustain were gutted to the level when these skills are just pure unmitigated garbage. Why to pretend let just remove all of them.

DaNnYtHePcFrEaK · October 2019

I lost a total of 18.5k dps.... [snip] this game!!!

[Edit for minor profanity]

leepalmer95 · October 2019

Get a better rotation and you should have better dps.

It's weird people are complaining about succefully doing content.

Shantu · October 2019

It's not rocket science. When the continued trend is to take things away, people will become dissatisfied.The broadly applied nerf hammer is just a sign of a lack of creative design. Apart from this ill-advised skill audit, we get overland content that is boring and easy, or dungeons so difficult that only a small percentage of people even try. Apart from the art department (which is consistently outstanding), game play has some creative challenges. Pointing to DPS as the issue, is just lazy.

DR4GONFL1 · October 2019

and this is the result of PvP calling for nerfs on this and on that...

leepalmer95 · October 2019

DR4GONFL1 wrote: »

and this is the result of PvP calling for nerfs on this and on that...

Yes blame pvp and the not the fact zos obviously overbuffed dots and people could easy hit 40k dps with lot tier gear and just stacking them.

The Uninvited · October 2019

Balance = Communism!

DaNnYtHePcFrEaK · October 2019

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Get a better rotation and you should have better dps.

It's weird people are complaining about succefully doing content.

I was pulling 97k last patch....

DaNnYtHePcFrEaK · October 2019

I have a rotation in mind and I hope it will take over from alcasts crappy blastbone every 2 skills

Sebar80 · October 2019

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Get a better rotation and you should have better dps.

It's weird people are complaining about succefully doing content.

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

I guess people also leaving since april due to successfully doing content

Please post legit pre and post patch parses where you have higher dps.

250k ingame gold awaits

FearlessOne_2014 · October 2019

Alcast so called Dragonhold builds don't even have the skills updated in them. Am I supposed to take his guides seriously. His builds are a sharp DPS decrease from custom made builds. Honestly guys all you all need to do is look at some of the damage procing sets. You all are welcome!

Trust in Procs, Not Alcast

Goregrinder · October 2019

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Alcast so called Dragonhold builds don't even have the skills updated in them. Am I supposed to take his guides seriously. His builds are a sharp DPS decrease from custom made builds. Honestly guys all you all need to do is look at some of the damage procing sets. You all are welcome!

Trust in Procs, Not Alcast

We shouldn't trust Alcast's advice, but we should trust yours? Who are you again?

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2019

FierceSam wrote: »

xeha_arwen11 wrote: »

hasi wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

mongoLC wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Even with the nerfs Necro should still pull good numbers, i would recommend refining your rotation.

Yeah i'm sure I could do better on my mage nightblade or stam sorc but man this is going to ruin newer players. I never had a super great rotation on my mage necro but I could usually always pull good numbers you should be able to on any class with any gear when your 1641cp.

No it is not. People cleared those dungeons way before we had that insane upwards spiral for DPS in recent updates. You know, when DPS were around 30k to 40k instead of 100k to 110k. Dungeons never changed, but DPS tripled. That nerf was overdue, especially after the insane DoT dps we had with the previous update.

You are making a bad Comparison. Those old Dps Numbers, that you are pulling out of your pocket are very likely done on a 3 Million Dummy, all selfbuffed.

The 100/110k are done on the Raid Dummy, which describes a perfect Trialing Situation with Healer, Tank Buffs etc.

Someone, who pulls 100/110k on the Iron Atronarch, will probably do 50-60k Selfbuffed. So it's a far lesser DPS increase than you claim it to be.

This. What in the world are people talking about? It's this misinformation that is destroying this game. No one is getting 100k on a freaking regular dummy SELF BUFFED or 4-person dungeon group buffed. They would only pull those numbers on a trial dummy or with 11 others helping buff them and debuffing the enemy.

So why in the WORLD would ZOS nerf everyone so that they can't do veteran dungeons anymore? Dungeons aren't 12-person teams with every optimal condition. Dungeon groups can't get you trial conditions, ESPECIALLY pug dungeon groups which are what a lot of people do since guilds are waning so hard. So nerfing dps everywhere because some idiots bragged about their 100k on a trial dummy for TRIALS or nerfing everything because huge liars said they got 100k on a regular dummy but they failed to mention they had a small army buffing them and debuffing the dummy is literally ruining the game for 95 percent of people. There is no logic here anymore.

Just give a dps cap for trials or make a "super hard mode" for trials if people are complaining about dps being too high. Destroying everyone's dps that they worked hard to get so that a lot of people can't even do vet dungeons is disgusting and a great way to shut down this game.

DPS, or lack of it, isn’t what prevents me or anyone doing vet dungeon or trials content in the most case*

The thing that prevents me most often is a failure to adequately deal with the mechanics. Dungeons I once found hard have become progressively easier for me as I became more familiar with their workings. I can now do the same dungeons on much lower level, less well equipped characters because I know how they work and my skills have improved.

Yes, it is easier (and very satisfying tbh) if I have 100k DPS and I can avoid the mechanics altogether. And the last patch I was pulling down stupidly big numbers. But I can still defeat the bosses without it.

With DLC vet dungeon content you can add teamwork into the success mix. We’ve all been with the lower DPS group who know the dungeon and have no issues, just as we’ve all been with the high DPS group who just can’t cope and don’t work together.

I would rather have a game that rewards my actual skill rather than one that props me up with stupidly big numbers.

*There are rare notable DPS checks in some cases eg Domihaus where the pillars force you to defeat him in a specific time, or the final Mage phase in Aetherian Archive, where group DPS above a certain level is necessary. But these are very limited and the DPS levels are low in comparison to some of the individual DPS we’re talking about now.

The game isnt propping you up with stupidly high numbers. The vast majority of actual DPS is coming from your rotations and the buffing/debuffing coming from others. You have to actually be skilled at this game to be pulling 100k in trials. The absolute vast majority of players are not pulling those even buffed/enemy debuffed.

starkerealm · October 2019

Goregrinder wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Alcast so called Dragonhold builds don't even have the skills updated in them. Am I supposed to take his guides seriously. His builds are a sharp DPS decrease from custom made builds. Honestly guys all you all need to do is look at some of the damage procing sets. You all are welcome!

Trust in Procs, Not Alcast

We shouldn't trust Alcast's advice, but we should trust yours? Who are you again?

I mean, they're fearless, clearly... beyond that... uh... not sure. I thought they were with you?

leepalmer95 · October 2019

Sebar80 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Get a better rotation and you should have better dps.

It's weird people are complaining about succefully doing content.

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

I guess people also leaving since april due to successfully doing content

Please post legit pre and post patch parses where you have higher dps.

250k ingame gold awaits

Did i say it was higher? No.

But people spoiled last patch, the overtuned dots boosted dps by so much it was insane. People got a huge dps boost by doing nothing.

All these complaints are people crying that they can't hit numbers they shouldnt be hitting with their rotations in the first place.

If they're that mad about the loss of dps then go farm the optimal setup and learn the optimal build and their dps will still be very high.

FearlessOne_2014 · October 2019

Goregrinder wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Alcast so called Dragonhold builds don't even have the skills updated in them. Am I supposed to take his guides seriously. His builds are a sharp DPS decrease from custom made builds. Honestly guys all you all need to do is look at some of the damage procing sets. You all are welcome!

Trust in Procs, Not Alcast

We shouldn't trust Alcast's advice, but we should trust yours? Who are you again?

I mean I personally would not trust let along buy something expired as they are trying to sell as new or updated. I mean if you do. Than enjoy the fall.

Sheeple these days are highly amusing. They'll bindly follow any icon. Regardless if the icon is right or wrong. Or in this case giving off expired information as updated or new.

leepalmer95 · October 2019

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Alcast so called Dragonhold builds don't even have the skills updated in them. Am I supposed to take his guides seriously. His builds are a sharp DPS decrease from custom made builds. Honestly guys all you all need to do is look at some of the damage procing sets. You all are welcome!

Trust in Procs, Not Alcast

We shouldn't trust Alcast's advice, but we should trust yours? Who are you again?

I mean I personally would not trust let along buy something expired as they are trying to sell as new or updated. I mean if you do. Than enjoy the fall.

Sheeple these days are highly amusing. They'll bindly follow any icon. Regardless if the icon is right or wrong. Or in this case giving off expired information as updated or new.

You call people sheepies yet all you do is sit on this forum complaining about stamina being OP all day.

Try playing more the 1 type of character first. The patch has been out for a day, chill.

But i'm sure you are a higher tier pve'er than Alcast, can you show me your god title?

FearlessOne_2014 · October 2019

leepalmer95 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Alcast so called Dragonhold builds don't even have the skills updated in them. Am I supposed to take his guides seriously. His builds are a sharp DPS decrease from custom made builds. Honestly guys all you all need to do is look at some of the damage procing sets. You all are welcome!

Trust in Procs, Not Alcast

We shouldn't trust Alcast's advice, but we should trust yours? Who are you again?

I mean I personally would not trust let along buy something expired as they are trying to sell as new or updated. I mean if you do. Than enjoy the fall.

Sheeple these days are highly amusing. They'll bindly follow any icon. Regardless if the icon is right or wrong. Or in this case giving off expired information as updated or new.

You call people sheepies yet all you do is sit on this forum complaining about stamina being OP all day.

Try playing more the 1 type of character first. The patch has been out for a day, chill.

But i'm sure you are a higher tier pve'er than Alcast, can you show me your god title?

What does me having a God title have anything to do with people, more than likely yourself. Worshiping expired and outdated information. The skills on that sites are readouts from LAST PATCH! HAHAHAHAHAHA. But be my guess and continue your Strawman against me.

leepalmer95 · October 2019

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Alcast so called Dragonhold builds don't even have the skills updated in them. Am I supposed to take his guides seriously. His builds are a sharp DPS decrease from custom made builds. Honestly guys all you all need to do is look at some of the damage procing sets. You all are welcome!

Trust in Procs, Not Alcast

We shouldn't trust Alcast's advice, but we should trust yours? Who are you again?

I mean I personally would not trust let along buy something expired as they are trying to sell as new or updated. I mean if you do. Than enjoy the fall.

Sheeple these days are highly amusing. They'll bindly follow any icon. Regardless if the icon is right or wrong. Or in this case giving off expired information as updated or new.

You call people sheepies yet all you do is sit on this forum complaining about stamina being OP all day.

Try playing more the 1 type of character first. The patch has been out for a day, chill.

But i'm sure you are a higher tier pve'er than Alcast, can you show me your god title?

What does me having a God title have anything to do with people, more than likely yourself. Worshiping expired and outdated information. The skills on that sites are readouts from LAST PATCH! HAHAHAHAHAHA. But be my guess and continue your Strawman against me.

But again the patch has been out a day. Go watch a recent video?

That title is basically achieveable by doing the highest form of pve in the game. People who have that title know what they are doing. I'm guessing you dont.

But i'm sure you're 'custom' (lmao) made builds are BIS. Not sure what you mean by custom either, when alcasts makes a build are they not custom for him?