Maintenance for the week of September 15:
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
What the hell is up with dps?
-
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No noticeable changes to DPS here, because my DPS has always been sucky.
I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!15 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Even with the nerfs Necro should still pull good numbers, i would recommend refining your rotation.
Yeah i'm sure I could do better on my mage nightblade or stam sorc but man this is going to ruin newer players. I never had a super great rotation on my mage necro but I could usually always pull good numbers you should be able to on any class with any gear when your 1641cp.
No it is not. People cleared those dungeons way before we had that insane upwards spiral for DPS in recent updates. You know, when DPS were around 30k to 40k instead of 100k to 110k. Dungeons never changed, but DPS tripled. That nerf was overdue, especially after the insane DoT dps we had with the previous update.
You are making a bad Comparison. Those old Dps Numbers, that you are pulling out of your pocket are very likely done on a 3 Million Dummy, all selfbuffed.
The 100/110k are done on the Raid Dummy, which describes a perfect Trialing Situation with Healer, Tank Buffs etc.
Someone, who pulls 100/110k on the Iron Atronarch, will probably do 50-60k Selfbuffed. So it's a far lesser DPS increase than you claim it to be.17 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If I win, do I care how I won?
Is it a good thing that a boss fight feels more difficult or is it bad that I can’t simply drop a 100k DPS on its head and nuke it?
Is PvP more or less fun when players can’t simply instakill one another?
Taking the numbers out of it, isn’t what we want challenging battles irrespective of the DPS?
What’s your best fight memory in ESO? I bet it’s not the moment you blitzed a boss with a one-shot. I’d bet it’s that slightly longer fight you had where your game skills helped you win.
DPS ain’t nothing but a number baby9 -
TirantLoBlanch✭✭✭
Yeah because those two examples are so relevant & comparable to a character you play on a damn game apparently losing a bit of dps.
Ffs. [/quote]
It´s jut an amplification of your bad argument.
To achieve things you was not able , this is a valuable experience.
To lose your achievements is´nt.
And all the frakking arttempts to be "positive" here are laughable...5 -
xeha_arwen11✭✭✭✭Even with the nerfs Necro should still pull good numbers, i would recommend refining your rotation.
Yeah i'm sure I could do better on my mage nightblade or stam sorc but man this is going to ruin newer players. I never had a super great rotation on my mage necro but I could usually always pull good numbers you should be able to on any class with any gear when your 1641cp.
No it is not. People cleared those dungeons way before we had that insane upwards spiral for DPS in recent updates. You know, when DPS were around 30k to 40k instead of 100k to 110k. Dungeons never changed, but DPS tripled. That nerf was overdue, especially after the insane DoT dps we had with the previous update.
You are making a bad Comparison. Those old Dps Numbers, that you are pulling out of your pocket are very likely done on a 3 Million Dummy, all selfbuffed.
The 100/110k are done on the Raid Dummy, which describes a perfect Trialing Situation with Healer, Tank Buffs etc.
Someone, who pulls 100/110k on the Iron Atronarch, will probably do 50-60k Selfbuffed. So it's a far lesser DPS increase than you claim it to be.
This. What in the world are people talking about? It's this misinformation that is destroying this game. No one is getting 100k on a freaking regular dummy SELF BUFFED or 4-person dungeon group buffed. They would only pull those numbers on a trial dummy or with 11 others helping buff them and debuffing the enemy.
So why in the WORLD would ZOS nerf everyone so that they can't do veteran dungeons anymore? Dungeons aren't 12-person teams with every optimal condition. Dungeon groups can't get you trial conditions, ESPECIALLY pug dungeon groups which are what a lot of people do since guilds are waning so hard. So nerfing dps everywhere because some idiots bragged about their 100k on a trial dummy for TRIALS or nerfing everything because huge liars said they got 100k on a regular dummy but they failed to mention they had a small army buffing them and debuffing the dummy is literally ruining the game for 95 percent of people. There is no logic here anymore.
Just give a dps cap for trials or make a "super hard mode" for trials if people are complaining about dps being too high. Destroying everyone's dps that they worked hard to get so that a lot of people can't even do vet dungeons is disgusting and a great way to shut down this game.
28 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭If I win, do I care how I won?
Is it a good thing that a boss fight feels more difficult or is it bad that I can’t simply drop a 100k DPS on its head and nuke it?
Is PvP more or less fun when players can’t simply instakill one another?
Taking the numbers out of it, isn’t what we want challenging battles irrespective of the DPS?
What’s your best fight memory in ESO? I bet it’s not the moment you blitzed a boss with a one-shot. I’d bet it’s that slightly longer fight you had where your game skills helped you win.
DPS ain’t nothing but a number baby
PREACH!
1 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭Even with the nerfs Necro should still pull good numbers, i would recommend refining your rotation.
Yeah i'm sure I could do better on my mage nightblade or stam sorc but man this is going to ruin newer players. I never had a super great rotation on my mage necro but I could usually always pull good numbers you should be able to on any class with any gear when your 1641cp.
No it is not. People cleared those dungeons way before we had that insane upwards spiral for DPS in recent updates. You know, when DPS were around 30k to 40k instead of 100k to 110k. Dungeons never changed, but DPS tripled. That nerf was overdue, especially after the insane DoT dps we had with the previous update.
If the old content was too easy, then ZoS should buff old content instead of nerfing DPS, because new content will be too hard now if you want to get top achievements granting you cool stuff such as skins or mounts. Old content was granting you nothing so I see no reason why it has to be challanging. Fun fact is that top players are still pulling insanse DPS numbers and the only group this nerf has hitted is a vast majority of casual players and non-meta builds (because screw you variety).3 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭xeha_arwen11 wrote: »Even with the nerfs Necro should still pull good numbers, i would recommend refining your rotation.
Yeah i'm sure I could do better on my mage nightblade or stam sorc but man this is going to ruin newer players. I never had a super great rotation on my mage necro but I could usually always pull good numbers you should be able to on any class with any gear when your 1641cp.
No it is not. People cleared those dungeons way before we had that insane upwards spiral for DPS in recent updates. You know, when DPS were around 30k to 40k instead of 100k to 110k. Dungeons never changed, but DPS tripled. That nerf was overdue, especially after the insane DoT dps we had with the previous update.
You are making a bad Comparison. Those old Dps Numbers, that you are pulling out of your pocket are very likely done on a 3 Million Dummy, all selfbuffed.
The 100/110k are done on the Raid Dummy, which describes a perfect Trialing Situation with Healer, Tank Buffs etc.
Someone, who pulls 100/110k on the Iron Atronarch, will probably do 50-60k Selfbuffed. So it's a far lesser DPS increase than you claim it to be.
This. What in the world are people talking about? It's this misinformation that is destroying this game. No one is getting 100k on a freaking regular dummy SELF BUFFED or 4-person dungeon group buffed. They would only pull those numbers on a trial dummy or with 11 others helping buff them and debuffing the enemy.
So why in the WORLD would ZOS nerf everyone so that they can't do veteran dungeons anymore? Dungeons aren't 12-person teams with every optimal condition. Dungeon groups can't get you trial conditions, ESPECIALLY pug dungeon groups which are what a lot of people do since guilds are waning so hard. So nerfing dps everywhere because some idiots bragged about their 100k on a trial dummy for TRIALS or nerfing everything because huge liars said they got 100k on a regular dummy but they failed to mention they had a small army buffing them and debuffing the dummy is literally ruining the game for 95 percent of people. There is no logic here anymore.
Just give a dps cap for trials or make a "super hard mode" for trials if people are complaining about dps being too high. Destroying everyone's dps that they worked hard to get so that a lot of people can't even do vet dungeons is disgusting and a great way to shut down this game.
DPS, or lack of it, isn’t what prevents me or anyone doing vet dungeon or trials content in the most case*
The thing that prevents me most often is a failure to adequately deal with the mechanics. Dungeons I once found hard have become progressively easier for me as I became more familiar with their workings. I can now do the same dungeons on much lower level, less well equipped characters because I know how they work and my skills have improved.
Yes, it is easier (and very satisfying tbh) if I have 100k DPS and I can avoid the mechanics altogether. And the last patch I was pulling down stupidly big numbers. But I can still defeat the bosses without it.
With DLC vet dungeon content you can add teamwork into the success mix. We’ve all been with the lower DPS group who know the dungeon and have no issues, just as we’ve all been with the high DPS group who just can’t cope and don’t work together.
I would rather have a game that rewards my actual skill rather than one that props me up with stupidly big numbers.
*There are rare notable DPS checks in some cases eg Domihaus where the pillars force you to defeat him in a specific time, or the final Mage phase in Aetherian Archive, where group DPS above a certain level is necessary. But these are very limited and the DPS levels are low in comparison to some of the individual DPS we’re talking about now.4 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭[removed quote]
You know all those people who brag about doing 1000k dps, skipping veteran hard mode mechanics, and whine about the game being too easy?
Thank them for these kinds of nerfs.Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 23, 2019 12:57PM13 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭xeha_arwen11 wrote: »Even with the nerfs Necro should still pull good numbers, i would recommend refining your rotation.
Yeah i'm sure I could do better on my mage nightblade or stam sorc but man this is going to ruin newer players. I never had a super great rotation on my mage necro but I could usually always pull good numbers you should be able to on any class with any gear when your 1641cp.
No it is not. People cleared those dungeons way before we had that insane upwards spiral for DPS in recent updates. You know, when DPS were around 30k to 40k instead of 100k to 110k. Dungeons never changed, but DPS tripled. That nerf was overdue, especially after the insane DoT dps we had with the previous update.
You are making a bad Comparison. Those old Dps Numbers, that you are pulling out of your pocket are very likely done on a 3 Million Dummy, all selfbuffed.
The 100/110k are done on the Raid Dummy, which describes a perfect Trialing Situation with Healer, Tank Buffs etc.
Someone, who pulls 100/110k on the Iron Atronarch, will probably do 50-60k Selfbuffed. So it's a far lesser DPS increase than you claim it to be.
This. What in the world are people talking about? It's this misinformation that is destroying this game. No one is getting 100k on a freaking regular dummy SELF BUFFED or 4-person dungeon group buffed. They would only pull those numbers on a trial dummy or with 11 others helping buff them and debuffing the enemy.
So why in the WORLD would ZOS nerf everyone so that they can't do veteran dungeons anymore? Dungeons aren't 12-person teams with every optimal condition. Dungeon groups can't get you trial conditions, ESPECIALLY pug dungeon groups which are what a lot of people do since guilds are waning so hard. So nerfing dps everywhere because some idiots bragged about their 100k on a trial dummy for TRIALS or nerfing everything because huge liars said they got 100k on a regular dummy but they failed to mention they had a small army buffing them and debuffing the dummy is literally ruining the game for 95 percent of people. There is no logic here anymore.
Just give a dps cap for trials or make a "super hard mode" for trials if people are complaining about dps being too high. Destroying everyone's dps that they worked hard to get so that a lot of people can't even do vet dungeons is disgusting and a great way to shut down this game.
DPS, or lack of it, isn’t what prevents me or anyone doing vet dungeon or trials content in the most case*
The thing that prevents me most often is a failure to adequately deal with the mechanics. Dungeons I once found hard have become progressively easier for me as I became more familiar with their workings. I can now do the same dungeons on much lower level, less well equipped characters because I know how they work and my skills have improved.
Yes, it is easier (and very satisfying tbh) if I have 100k DPS and I can avoid the mechanics altogether. And the last patch I was pulling down stupidly big numbers. But I can still defeat the bosses without it.
With DLC vet dungeon content you can add teamwork into the success mix. We’ve all been with the lower DPS group who know the dungeon and have no issues, just as we’ve all been with the high DPS group who just can’t cope and don’t work together.
I would rather have a game that rewards my actual skill rather than one that props me up with stupidly big numbers.
*There are rare notable DPS checks in some cases eg Domihaus where the pillars force you to defeat him in a specific time, or the final Mage phase in Aetherian Archive, where group DPS above a certain level is necessary. But these are very limited and the DPS levels are low in comparison to some of the individual DPS we’re talking about now.
And because people could blow through content with ease they would do just that and thus make it less enjoyable/ no fun for those who cant do the numbers or who haven't ran the dungeon 12 million times. So now if it means things slow down and you need to work together and pay attention..thats a win/win!
Reminds me of an old joke.....
2 Bulls standing up on hill, one young one old, looking down on all the heifers below. Young Bull says "Hey! Lets run down there and have sex with one of them Heifers!" Old Bull replies, "nah, lets walk down there and have sex with them ALL!"3 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nerfweyr working as intented..."Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2360 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2190 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2345 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2090 CP
1 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭And because people could blow through content with ease they would do just that and thus make it less enjoyable/ no fun for those who cant do the numbers or who haven't ran the dungeon 12 million times. So now if it means things slow down and you need to work together and pay attention..thats a win/win!
No, it means that you have to get DLCs / ESO+, chapter and then equip DLC sets & stamcro and you can still burn through content... However if you have a vanilla version of the game then FU
0 -
Frostystuff✭✭Trials and dlc dungeons are all easy once you are fully equiped with the equipment those same instances drop. I mean who doesnt have there full sets of siroria/PFGD or loke/ reli1
-
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DPS is back to around where it was pre-Scalebreaker.Edited by MLGProPlayer on October 23, 2019 11:35AM0 -
fierackas✭✭✭✭✭Another consideration is time - a lot of people log in for an hour or two to play - if harder content is now going to take twice as long that content becomes unavailable for those more casual players - they will soon lose interest in that case and look elsewhere.11
-
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭
Like I have said - no meta builds & DLC sets = no fun. They have killed the variety and non meta builds.Frostystuff wrote: »Trials and dlc dungeons are all easy once you are fully equiped with the equipment those same instances drop. I mean who doesnt have there full sets of siroria/PFGD or loke/ reli
Now either you are meta or you have pathetic DPS / can't sustain. How about nerf Loki? 6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is just insane. I mean 32k was just average dps i am running ZAN, burning spellweave, mothers sorrow, vma backbar this build basically.
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-necromancer-build-pve/
Is less than 20k dps now the new average?
That's a L2P issue. DPS has essentially been scaled back to pre-Scalebreaker levels. If you could complete vet dungeons then, you can still do so now. If you're struggling now, you would have struggled before too.
ZOS made a mistake overbuffing everyone last patch, then taking that power away. Players don't like that. This is why they need to do a better job testing changes/listening to feedback. If the Scalebreaker patch didn't happen, nobody would be complaining right now about "feeling weaker".Edited by MLGProPlayer on October 23, 2019 11:44AM6 -
Rittings✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think what makes it frustrating is when you have a bunch of players who aren't as "abled" as others - and they work just as hard to get some decent numbers. They usually get good enough numbers for vet trials and end game content at the exact point of a nerf from ZoS...
I know I've lost countless guild mates over the years because of this. They feel like they are trying hard and making progress, only to have the rug pulled from under them... time and time and time again.12 -
oddbasket✭✭✭✭✭
✭I ran a stam warden through vet pledges today which had the same gear, skills and cp setup pre-dragonhold. While in general pve, things die too fast to be much different, in the dungeon, my dps on trash actually increased, but the main issue is sustain during a boss fight. Sustain has gone down and really affected the flow of dpsing, I had to work in heavy attacks and spam stam pots. Some boss fights I'd managed over 30k when I get a healer with synergies and resource regen that I can use, if not it drops to around 20k. So my dps is more dependent on the healer now, but in pugs not all healers provide synergies as we all know 2 out of 3 roles are for fast queues.0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »This is just insane. I mean 32k was just average dps i am running ZAN, burning spellweave, mothers sorrow, vma backbar this build basically.
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-necromancer-build-pve/
Is less than 20k dps now the new average?
That's a L2P issue. DPS has essentially been scaled back to pre-Scalebreaker levels. If you could complete vet dungeons then, you can still do so now. If you're struggling now, you would have struggled before too.
ZOS made a mistake overbuffing everyone last patch, then taking that power away. Players don't like that. This is why they need to do a better job testing changes/listening to feedback. If the Scalebreaker patch didn't happen, nobody would be complaining right now about "feeling weaker".
While I agree with your 2nd half.
I disagree with your 1st half and here is why. Before Scalebreaker I was pulling around 33k to 37k on 6 mil dummy with my Magplar. And 34k dps on my MagSorc. Currently my Magplar struggles to pull 26k on 6 mill. And my Magsorc pulls 30k dps on 6mil dummy. Why you ask? It's because at least for magicka, our abilities now cost nearly double and do half the damage. This is way worst then pre Scalebreaker.
These changes only served to widen the gap between already oppressive Stamina and underwhelming Magicka. I guess ZOS vision for the game is Magicka Casters are for PvE and PvP supports and Stamina Warriors and Assassins are for Damage for self sufficency in PvE and PvP. At this point Stamina eclipse Magicka in all areas of this game, except group Healing. As of now that is. Knowing ZOS they may even make Stamina Healers like Warden or Necromancer better than Magicka specs. Leaving Magicka Specs to be nothing more than eye candy fluff with no relevance in ESO content. At least ZOS has been on the steady track to make my last statement a reality.12 -
Niaver✭✭✭✭I'm crap at DPSing, as my main has always been a tank. My very unoptimal stamden without meta gear still makes around 30k without me even knowing how to press buttons.
Anyway, even if my and everyones DPS would drop by 50%, what's wrong about it? Most of the content is stupidly easy anyway.PC EU - Daggerfall Covenant - @Niaver
Erazar (main) - Khajit DK tank
Proud owner of Maelstrom Sharpened Bow2 -
Sebar80✭✭✭I'm crap at DPSing, as my main has always been a tank. My very unoptimal stamden without meta gear still makes around 30k without me even knowing how to press buttons.
Anyway, even if my and everyones DPS would drop by 50%, what's wrong about it? Most of the content is stupidly easy anyway.
Lets cut your sallary in half, if you have one, most things are cheap anyway so what would be wrong about it??PC EU
PVE
Tanks all classes15 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hey @mongoLC
Forgetting the DPS for a moment, what did you feel about the fight?
Was it more engaging having to deal with the mechanics? Do you feel better/worse when you defeated the boss?
I know I have had battles where everyone’s dps has been lower than usual, we’ve had to work harder and the sense of elation at the end when we won was so much better than if we’d simply burnt the boss.
And if you completed the dungeon does DPS actually matter?
Mechanics <> heavy attack spam forever.
Mechanics wise, for the little time the server could allow us to run trials, I found no difference.
The big difference is how annoying is to heavy attack spam.
I say this as multi-year heavy attack build sorceress. I ALWAYS run heavy attack builds (since Morrowind), however this time they outdid themselves and now some times I have to double heavy attack in one rotation.
No challenge. No fun. Just boring AF.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO7 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭[removed quote]
No, it's time to enchant for sustain.Edited by ZOS_JesC on October 23, 2019 1:07PM0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TirantLoBlanch wrote: »Hey @mongoLC
Forgetting the DPS for a moment, what did you feel about the fight?
Was it more engaging having to deal with the mechanics? Do you feel better/worse when you defeated the boss?
I know I have had battles where everyone’s dps has been lower than usual, we’ve had to work harder and the sense of elation at the end when we won was so much better than if we’d simply burnt the boss.
And if you completed the dungeon does DPS actually matter?
Your boss will be happy to know how easy is for you to transform to live with a half wage into a satisfiying challenge.
THe guy feels frustrated and stoled.
Go to an hospital to tell the amputated how happy they must be facing the new chalenges of a disabled life...
Don't think of it as having been "amputated" - you have just had your DPS rationalised, along with everyone else.
Numbers don't matter in an MMO - what matters is balance and how your numbers and performance compare to everyone else's.
You're not alone - everyone, who had OP DPS previously, is in the same boat.
Sustain, on the other hand, matters.
Try enchanting for sustain.
If you find you still have issues, after doing that, then I think you would have every right to come back and complain.1 -
solasub✭✭✭✭✭Numbers don't matter in an MMO
Have you ever run things like portals on vSS HM to write such a thing? Where if number is not enough, it's a full group wipe?Tick Tock Tormentor• Gryphon Heart • Immortal Redeemer • Extinguisher of Flames • Dro-m'Athra Destroyer • Shiel of the North
PVP Alpha Squad
PVE : Alpha Crew Guild leader / Easy Peasy Officer14 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm crap at DPSing, as my main has always been a tank. My very unoptimal stamden without meta gear still makes around 30k without me even knowing how to press buttons.
Anyway, even if my and everyones DPS would drop by 50%, what's wrong about it? Most of the content is stupidly easy anyway.
Lets cut your sallary in half, if you have one, most things are cheap anyway so what would be wrong about it??
It's not a salary, though, is it?
It's DPS numbers in a multiplayer game.
Unless your DPS is lower than other players, you are not at a disadvantage, compared with them.
How would you feel if they had not nerfed numbers, or automatic sustain, but had instead raised everyone else's DPS to match yours and had boosted NPC HP to reflect that?
If you would be happier, that means you're too wrapped up in the numbers (which are meaningless, in isolation), rather than the outcomes.
2 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They overbuffed DoTs in Scalebreaker. They were repeatedly informed of this but went live, anyway. Then they had to walk it all back in this patch. Now they have overnerfed sustain in Dragonhold. They were repeatedly informed of this but went live, anyway. They will almost certainly walk it all back in next patch. But enjoy 3 months of Breton + False God + Absorb Glyph and still being out of resources.10 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »They overbuffed DoTs in Scalebreaker. They were repeatedly informed of this but went live, anyway. Then they had to walk it all back in this patch. Now they have overnerfed sustain in Dragonhold. They were repeatedly informed of this but went live, anyway. They will almost certainly walk it all back in next patch. But enjoy 3 months of Breton + False God + Absorb Glyph and still being out of resources.
On the other hand. Stamina is still doing wonders. I swear Magicka specs are the Red Headed Stepchild of ZOS.1