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PTS Update 23 - Feedback Thread for Jewelry Crafting Master Writ Improvements

  • GarnetFire17
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    1 plating per upgrade would be the best solution. And then also adjust the writ amount based on the rarity of the trait like the do with ninrcrux or only let the writs drop in certain traits like robust, arcane, and healthy.
    Edited by GarnetFire17 on August 5, 2019 4:17PM
  • Dusk_Coven
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    baratron wrote: »
    For Tier 5, here are our results formatted like @tmbrinks' above:
    E1oYd.png

    Including @tmbrinks' data:
    E1oYn.png

    I'm still against any proposed solution that encourages alt-farming. But... if they insist on going this route, AND the results stabilize into something like the above, then
    (1) looks like they want us to do Superior writs -- would those become too easy?
    (2) if Zircon drops <= Chromium drops, all Epic writs are trash because you won't have enough for Legendary writs
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on August 5, 2019 6:01PM
  • tmbrinks
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    baratron wrote: »
    For Tier 5, here are our results formatted like @tmbrinks' above:
    E1oYd.png

    Including @tmbrinks' data:
    E1oYn.png

    I'm still against any proposed solution that encourages alt-farming. But... if they insist on going this route, AND the results stabilize into something like the above, then
    (1) looks like they want us to do Superior writs -- would those become too easy?
    (2) if Zircon drops <= Chromium drops, all Epic writs are trash because you won't have enough for Legendary writs

    For part (2). The drop rate of Legendary Master Writs is going to be "very, very rare", which in ZoS means <<1% of the writs that drop are that quality.

    Thus, Even assuming the drop rates are 75% blue, 20% purple and 5% gold (which I believe to be substantially better than what we'll see once there's lots of data), you are getting 4x as many purple as gold master writs. I'd estimate that it'll be closer to a 10x difference in reality.

    The legendary master writs are not really an issue, they are going to be super rare, so the usage of zircon there is not really a thing.

    Secondly, it is WAY, WAY, WAAAAAAAY easier to get purple jewelry drops, as it drops from almost all vet content, whereas gold jewelry to decon ONLY drops from vet trials (and leaderboards), so the deconstruction of the purple jewelry will most assuredly produce enough Zircon to "overcome" the additional use you need to do your legendary master writs, especially if the drop rates from doing writs is approximately the same between zircon and chromium grains, as the data indicates they are reasonably close.

    For those looking at my data, the "effective drop rate" for Iridium is skewed by the fact that I have gotten one plating from that, which in itself is a rare event, so it's an outlier at this point.

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  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Secondly, it is WAY, WAY, WAAAAAAAY easier to get purple jewelry drops, as it drops from almost all vet content, whereas gold jewelry to decon ONLY drops from vet trials (and leaderboards), so the deconstruction of the purple jewelry will most assuredly produce enough Zircon to "overcome" the additional use you need to do your legendary master writs, especially if the drop rates from doing writs is approximately the same between zircon and chromium grains, as the data indicates they are reasonably close.

    If it's so easy why do people complain about Zircon now? Go farm it.
    But assuming that people don't want to farm it by running a vet dungeon maybe 10x to maybe get 1 plate, the current stats show writs are dropping Zircon around the same rate as Chromium.
    In earlier threads people talk about Chromium NOT being a problem -- probably because they're sitting on it whenever it drops from daily writs. It's stockpiling now and it'll stockpile under the PTS system.

    If you use Zircon for your epic writs, every time you do so you are falling behind while stockpiling your supply of chromium. And from your assumption that epic writs are going to drop more often than legendary writs, then you are eroding your supply of zircon even more quickly (IF writs are going to be worth doing; which isn't clear yet).

    If you're saying that by the time you get one legendary writ you'll still have both mats available -- that's possible, assuming we are still dumping some writs because they are still not useful to do.
    And this assumes you actually have enough zircon to do any epic writ that comes your way that you actually want to do. If you feel you don't, then you are better off waiting for a legendary writ for the higher payout for an equal investment in zircon. To do otherwise would be to pass not just on the opportunity of the higher pay from the legendary writ but incur an ongoing opportunity cost of your chromium sitting around.
    If you are getting enough zircon for all the epic writs you want to do, you'll end up with an excess of Chromium because you're not doing legendary writs at the same rate as epic writs.

    So they could lower the Chromium drop rate a bit and up the Zircon a bit.
    Edited by Dusk_Coven on August 5, 2019 8:41PM
  • tmbrinks
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    tmbrinks wrote: »
    Secondly, it is WAY, WAY, WAAAAAAAY easier to get purple jewelry drops, as it drops from almost all vet content, whereas gold jewelry to decon ONLY drops from vet trials (and leaderboards), so the deconstruction of the purple jewelry will most assuredly produce enough Zircon to "overcome" the additional use you need to do your legendary master writs, especially if the drop rates from doing writs is approximately the same between zircon and chromium grains, as the data indicates they are reasonably close.

    If it's so easy why do people complain about Zircon now? Go farm it.
    But assuming that people don't want to farm it by running a vet dungeon maybe 10x to maybe get 1 plate, the current stats show writs are dropping Zircon around the same rate as Chromium.
    In earlier threads people talk about Chromium NOT being a problem -- probably because they're sitting on it whenever it drops from daily writs. It's stockpiling now and it'll stockpile under the PTS system.

    If you use Zircon for your epic writs, every time you do so you are falling behind while stockpiling your supply of chromium. And from your assumption that epic writs are going to drop more often than legendary writs, then you are eroding your supply of zircon even more quickly (IF writs are going to be worth doing; which isn't clear yet).

    If you're saying that by the time you get one legendary writ you'll still have both mats available -- that's possible, assuming we are still dumping some writs because they are still not useful to do.
    And this assumes you actually have enough zircon to do any epic writ that comes your way that you actually want to do. If you feel you don't, then you are better off waiting for a legendary writ for the higher payout for an equal investment in zircon. To do otherwise would be to pass not just on the opportunity of the higher pay from the legendary writ but incur an ongoing opportunity cost of your chromium sitting around.
    If you are getting enough zircon for all the epic writs you want to do, you'll end up with an excess of Chromium because you're not doing legendary writs at the same rate as epic writs.

    So they could lower the Chromium drop rate a bit and up the Zircon a bit.

    You are conflating the current situation, with what will be the new situation. Yes, currently it sucks to get Zircon. This change alone is going to make a HUGE difference is supply that is only ADDED to the current supplies. They took nothing away from zircon sources and added a huge one.

    Zircon drops 50% more often from refining. (0.75% vs 0.5%)

    There is probably 100x as many purple jewelry pieces deconned for every gold jewelry piece deconned. (It is probably 20:1 for me, but I raid a lot, and I know a lot of people dont even step foot into trials, let alone vet trials, and certainly not vet-HM). This is an educated guess on the amount. Some people may literally NEVER get a gold jewelry drop, but everybody has chances at a Dolmen.

    The drops from writs appear to be even at this point.

    Thus, you will have plenty of Zircon once the patch hits.

    Calm down, let the dust settle, before you change a system that hasnt even been instituted on a large scale yet.

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  • Jayne_Doe
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    baratron wrote: »
    I checked the Patch Notes and only saw mention of occasional complete platings - nothing about getting complete trait stones.

    I got a whole unit of Zinc on the LIVE server today doing Tier 5. Maybe they snuck that in on one of the earlier patches.

    Huh...interesting. I admit that when opening the JC writ coffers, I only pay attention if there is a grain, a swift research piece, or a survey. Never really looked at the other rewards, except, of course, for the useless master writs.

    I'm really bad that way what with Dolgubon's opening the boxes for me while I'm turning in another writ...

    I'm bad that way since I have to open all my boxes (on console), so I just quickly scan before taking all. I did notice over the weekend, since I decided to pay more attention, that I got a full cobalt trait stone.
    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    f047ys3v3n wrote: »
    Not a chance, but maybe they will be worth 2k gold instead of 25 gold and will be worth selling at least.

    So someone feels they are currently worth doing because they are actually buying writs? O.O

    Yeah...some players are doing them. But I'm on console, so we don't have add-ons that tell us the cost of doing these writs, so players I think are just doing them if they have the mats and/or are desperate for vouchers. I sell all my purple writs and I just recently sold all my gold writs that I was still holding onto (triune and swift). I sold them for really cheap, like 20g per voucher or less, and they all sold pretty quickly.

    But to my mind, they generally aren't worth doing - at least the purple ones aren't, as I'd rather save my zircon for a higher payout gold writ. I've only done one of those, a swift one, as it was by far the highest value I'd seen, even with the 20 voucher cost of the stone. I've got another swift one I haven't sold yet, as I'm debating whether I want that high payout to add to my stash for the upcoming RNG documents for Alinor and CW plans.
  • Dusk_Coven
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    We're almost at Update 24 now.
    So did ZOS achieve the objectives for Jewelry Crafting Master Writ Improvements as outlined in Update 23?
  • goldenarcher1
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    We're almost at Update 24 now.
    So did ZOS achieve the objectives for Jewelry Crafting Master Writ Improvements as outlined in Update 23?


    Well,the legendary Master Writs are no longer a problem as they are as rare as hens teeth now.

    The blue master writs were worth doing for the first few weeks but Iridium plating prices have more than doubled,so pretty much the same problem now with the blue writs as there was with pre-update 23 writs in that they are not profitable to complete.
  • Shantu
    Shantu
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    Geez, you'd think this was rocket science. Mat costs and rarity are simply too high. So unless you want a RL job farming platinum dust for others, if it's not blue in a common trait, it's generally not worth doing.
  • Dusk_Coven
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    If the additional tempers dropping from Daily Writs are now merely being sold instead of being used to complete Master Jewelry Writs (the intended usage), should that change be reverted in Daily Writs?

    State platform to provide context when commenting.
  • Major_Lag
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    PC-EU here:
    Do you feel these writs are worth completing?
    No. A complete waste of time, is what they are.
    Do you anticipate doing these once the update goes live?
    No. Never have done a single JC writ, ever - and not doing any until Hell freezes over.
    Do you have any other general feedback?
    JC writs are a waste of precious upgrade mats and a waste of precious bank space.
    As such, there is only one thing to be done with them... as any Dalek would say: EXTERMINATE!

    After well over 1000 hours of varied (PvE and PvP) gameplay, I only have enough JC mats to gold out 2 sets... what a joke.

    Not that I would actually USE the gold mats to gold out any jewelry anyway, what with the actually useful sets getting randomly destroyed every single patch by the misguided "balance" changes.
    I already got burned with transmuting a whole set of jewelry to Protective... only several days before the Protective nerf was announced on the PTS. FFS.


    EDIT:
    To further prove my point - since the update which made blue JC writs begin to drop, I've accumulated about 40 of those with the intent of inspecting them en masse before destroying them all.

    The blue JC writs work out to an average materials cost of ~500 gold per voucher; most writs are in the mid-400s, but there are also a few outliers with per-voucher cost as high as >1k.

    For comparison, the non-JC equipment writs work out to average mat cost in the 200-350 range, depending on quality and type.

    I won't even bother comparing JC writs to consumable writs, because those have such a low average mat cost that it might as well be completely free to craft them. (except for some gold consumable writs; those can be as expensive as ~350 gold per voucher)
    Edited by Major_Lag on October 22, 2019 3:50AM
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