Anyone else think that the prologue boss fight was challenging?

AndyMac · October 2019

AndyMac wrote: »

Lol - I picked up a pledge group during the quest - just outside the lair door - when I finished the dungeon I got dumped back to Eastmarch.

I couldn’t find how to get back to the lair - so I abandoned the quest hoping I’d have a way to restart.

But nope - can’t find one. So I’ve got no idea what the fight is like lol.

At least I’ve got a dragon banner.

Update - you can port to a guildie in the Valley of Blades and restart the second quest.

redlink1979 · October 2019

It has the difficulty of overland content, so... No.

Dusk_Coven · October 2019

AndyMac wrote: »

AndyMac wrote: »

Lol - I picked up a pledge group during the quest - just outside the lair door - when I finished the dungeon I got dumped back to Eastmarch.

I couldn’t find how to get back to the lair - so I abandoned the quest hoping I’d have a way to restart.

But nope - can’t find one. So I’ve got no idea what the fight is like lol.

At least I’ve got a dragon banner.

Update - you can port to a guildie in the Valley of Blades and restart the second quest.

Once you're at that stage in the Dragonhold prologue, is there not a horse next to Hinzuur?

Ye_Olde_Crowe · October 2019

Um, the dragon was pretty easy I think, but my main is sort of a self-sustain tank, and this special dragon did not attempt to sit on him as some of the Elsweyr dragons do.

pdblake · October 2019

Once Sai blew that horn I melted the dragon with Overload. It took me longer to get to him through all those kwama than it did to kill him.

Alienoutlaw · October 2019

not really, whole thing was like playing Zelda with a hook shot was expecting a plant to attack instead of the dragon

Vulsahdaal · October 2019

I was actually surprised how easy it really was. The ironic thing is that I found it easy for the same reason the OP found it difficult- mechanics (or perhaps I should say the lack of them).

OK, I did do it with one of my top DD characters who is accustomed to soloing dungeons, so I expected a fairly quick victory. But I also expected some more mechanics would be involved.

As soon as I entered the area and realized 'Ok, this is where we fight the dragon boss', I started scanning the rocks and structures on the outskirts for poles.

I really thought since we were given this new toy, the grapple bow, we would put it to use.

In such an enclosed area, I figured the dragon would do some sort of insta-death AOE that would be impossible to dodge or run from, and the only way to avoid it would be to grapple upward until it was safe to return to the ground and resume the fight.

Its not unheard of (I guess thats why I expected it lol). We saw similar mechanics in Cloudrest underground where synergies bring us up and out of harms way, and in Murkmire I remember a fight where we used vines atop tall columns to pull us to safety from the insta-death AOE below.

I was really surprised this mechanic wasnt put in, and instead it was just an overly simple 'dont stand in red and kill whatever is in front of you' type of fight that seemed to be over much too quickly.

Asardes · October 2019

No. I have a tank character with some basic DD gear on pulling 15-20K and killed the dragon very fast. Even with under 10K it would have died easily. You only have to knock a few hundred thousands of the dragon's health, the horn does the rest.

tinythinker · October 2019

Depends on how you define the average player. I never beat vMA and don't run DLC dungeons on veteran, so not sure where the places me on the scale. The fight wasn't hard for me but I did it on my Templar and am over the cap for CP; does that really answer the question?

My more meaningful assessment:

If you had no AoE slotted at all and your damage output was really low you it might take a while on the kwama. The dragon itself was just motionless target when it could be targeted and horn did nearly all of the damage to it. The dragon actually gave some challenge with the blossoming circle AoEs of fire, but if you are used to multiple AoEs spreading and kept moving that was fine. If you aren't used to it/don't have muscle memory for that kind of movement or reaction it would have been hard.

So, again, depending on how we define "average player" it could be a range from "kept me on my toes at the end" to "wow that got rough".

Cundu_Ertur · October 2019

Haenk wrote: »

with 2 pets & atronarch the dragon was quite busy and hardly ever attacked me, the adds went easily down with AOE - and I spent a lot of my CPs into non-fighting skill - every Pet Sorc should win this fight easily.

However the story plot it stupid - SPOILER - why would you let the enemy grab the ultimate weapon, the only weapon being able to kill you, when you could have easily killed the enemy before? That makes no sense.

Bow before the power of PLOT! Mwuh-hahahahaha! (Mine is an evil laugh.)

AndyMac · October 2019

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Once you're at that stage in the Dragonhold prologue, is there not a horse next to Hinzuur?

idk - I looked where I could remember to look and even googled but couldn't find any way to get back to the quest givers when I abandoned the second quest.

I tried porting to a guildie in the Valley of Blades - that worked and then I could get the last quest again.

Best advice I can give is that if you are doing the quests, its best just to complete them before doing anything else.

The dragon fight is a faceroll, too.

Jeremy · October 2019

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I have a brother I tried to talk into playing this game (a new player) but he quit because he said the landscape monsters were too easy and boring.

1000 quests (or even 100 or 10) later he'd have just wanted to get things done and move things along.
The Dragonhold Prologue was made to be potentially a starter quest for a new player and it's always hard to have newb adventurers alongside hero-figures like Sai, and still make the encounter FEEL heroic. This is not a new problem. Fantasy novels and the first RPGs encountered this. Often the hero will overshadow the player's new toon and that's not a good experience. But yet somehow the encounter must still be passable.
That is the challenge of One Tamriel, which lets people jump into the game at various points of its expansions, rather than lock them behind levelled areas so it takes forever to get to the latest story. Unlike a lot of levelled-area games, we don't have a strictly linear story anymore. The Elsweyr story arc is sufficiently separate from all the stories that went before, same as Murkmire.

1000 quests later and I still want more of a challenge on the landscape. So I'm not sure your analysis is correct. It certainly isn't where it concerns myself.

In any case: an optional veteran mode for players who want a more difficult landscape would not interfere with players like you who just want to get things done as fast as possible. A lot of us like to enjoy our games and prefer an interesting challenge while questing. We don't want to just mindlessly bulldoze through it asap.

FakeFox · October 2019

It was exciting until I realized that you don't even fight him, as the horn does like 99% of the damage.

Elwendryll · October 2019

I was sad the Ballista took so much of its life, and that the total damage you have to do is like 500k?

I would have liked to just dummy parse him in like 8-10 minutes xD

Dusk_Coven · October 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

1000 quests later and I still want more of a challenge on the landscape. So I'm not sure your analysis is correct. It certainly isn't where it concerns myself.

I think most people don't even bother reading the quest text or listening to the NPC dialog because they are doing it on alts for the skill points. And a lot of people are on the maps just to collect resources and nothing else. Even in Craglorn you don't see people messing around with the portals or wandering around just to wander around and have "challenge on the landscape".
In any case, you can state your case at this discussion https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497096/discussion-and-poll-about-veteran-zones-and-difficulty-adjusments

WillhelmBlack · October 2019

It was laughably easy. Had to do it for the Horn tho which imo is the best thing ever in ESO for years.

D0PAMINE · October 2019

I had to port in a few times to help guildies who were having issues.

Katahdin · October 2019

I did not find it difficult on my main with max cp, gold meta gear, ton of skill points etc.

Might have been more so on a non maxed character but haven't run it on one yet.

Jhalin · October 2019

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

1000 quests later and I still want more of a challenge on the landscape. So I'm not sure your analysis is correct. It certainly isn't where it concerns myself.

I think most people don't even bother reading the quest text or listening to the NPC dialog because they are doing it on alts for the skill points. And a lot of people are on the maps just to collect resources and nothing else. Even in Craglorn you don't see people messing around with the portals or wandering around just to wander around and have "challenge on the landscape".
In any case, you can state your case at this discussion https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497096/discussion-and-poll-about-veteran-zones-and-difficulty-adjusments

Crag is a bad example, because there’s no incentives to go there besides Nirn. The loot sucks, the actual questing is still stupidly easy. Those portals don’t drop anything but the trash sets no one uses, not even at a decent quality on top of taking too long to spawn all the mobs.

There’s a medium between brainless tedium, and not worth the effort for crap rewards. If those portals dropped Nirncrux, people would farm them. If the bosses had actual good odds of dropping the motifs people would fight them. If gear had a chance to drop in gold, people would be bustling there for mats. But, it doesn’t have usable rewards, so it’s just a place to dance on wayshrines while waiting for groups to fill.

lucky_Sage · October 2019

I mean if you are a new player with no cp or don’t know about head you could have I guess I did have to do it with a beginner guild mate bexuase he could not do it but he played a stamblade with no heals

Imryll · October 2019

I survived beta era Doshia, but it's good to remember that One Tamriel changed how overland balance works. Previously if you couldn't kill a boss you leveled a bit and tried again. With One Tamriel outleveling an encounter is no longer an option.

D0PAMINE · October 2019

Imryll wrote: »

I survived beta era Doshia, but it's good to remember that One Tamriel changed how overland balance works. Previously if you couldn't kill a boss you leveled a bit and tried again. With One Tamriel outleveling an encounter is no longer an option.

Thats why I love One Tam. There is a reason to go back to zones and killing the boss requires more than a bash or light attack.

SeaGtGruff · October 2019

It was a bit tougher on my EU main, because it was harder for him to dodge and withstand the fireballs while also picking off the kwama one by one.

Dusk_Coven · October 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

1000 quests later and I still want more of a challenge on the landscape. So I'm not sure your analysis is correct. It certainly isn't where it concerns myself.

I think most people don't even bother reading the quest text or listening to the NPC dialog because they are doing it on alts for the skill points. And a lot of people are on the maps just to collect resources and nothing else. Even in Craglorn you don't see people messing around with the portals or wandering around just to wander around and have "challenge on the landscape".
In any case, you can state your case at this discussion https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/497096/discussion-and-poll-about-veteran-zones-and-difficulty-adjusments

Crag is a bad example, because there’s no incentives to go there besides Nirn. The loot sucks, the actual questing is still stupidly easy. Those portals don’t drop anything but the trash sets no one uses, not even at a decent quality on top of taking too long to spawn all the mobs.

There’s a medium between brainless tedium, and not worth the effort for crap rewards. If those portals dropped Nirncrux, people would farm them. If the bosses had actual good odds of dropping the motifs people would fight them. If gear had a chance to drop in gold, people would be bustling there for mats. But, it doesn’t have usable rewards, so it’s just a place to dance on wayshrines while waiting for groups to fill.

And this is why Craglorn is a great example. As soon as there's a tipping point for loot or XP, people will go but only go for that. You still see people XP grinding in some spots, but probably because they got bored of Alik'r or can't get a hit in there.
Until something has that incentive, the zone is dead.
BUT once there IS incentive, people will over-farm it.

This is why all the "harder content" and "harder fights" people want are in dungeons and trials. So you get the challenge but it's structured so you can't overfarm it with a horde of 20 people like Alik'r.
The overland is bad for incentivizing because ZOS can't really control how many people are there. If they wanted to... well, then it's just like a dungeon or trial.