PSA - STOP THE WEREWOLF/VAMPIRE GRIEIFING - Want to be a were/vamp? Think again!

UniscornScarebear · April 2014

Midgardian wrote: »

They should just implement special quest lines that allow you to become a vampire or werewolf, hence solving this problem.

^This^

WraithAzraiel · April 2014

I'm sorry but I'm of the mind that if you want to get something for nothing - IE have a player bite you instead of hunting for and investing a little time in getting the bite for yourself - then a little compensation isn't that much to ask.

It's one thing when people are general d-bags and try to screw one another out of their part of the bargain but when it's a non-shady business transaction all's well.

It comes down to convenience - people pay for things to be convenient in every facet of life - why are people selling the bite automatically scammers? I've heard just as many stories of people agreeing to pay - getting bitten then logging out without paying the person they got it from

It's not any one group of people that are at fault for things like this, people as a whole generally suck - especially when they were raised as spoiled little *** who got everything they wanted and were rewarded for mediocrity and stupidity.

I blame the parents

JasonConstantine · April 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We are continuing to monitor vampire and werewolf spawn availability. We have a few suggestions that may help those of you who are on the hunt (some of which are mentioned in this thread.)
There are multiple spawn points at any given time during the availability period for each. We encourage seeking them out, especially if you see that one is being camped.

Some people are giving away bites for free. Keep an eye out for those opportunities, and if you are able, consider paying it forward for the next person. The more the community comes together to combat those who are griefing, the less viable the griefing and price gouging will be.

Join a guild that provides free vampire and werewolf bites to its members.

If you're in an instance that is very crowded during the availability period, try relogging to be placed in a different instance.

Jessica we asked specific questions regarding the spawns multiple times and we have been ignored. We are trying to put rumors and BS to rest that is causing more in-game tension.

Specifically we have asked if the Phases of the moon truly exist and affect spawns.

If the spawns are truly random in the zone, or if they are specific spots only we are not asking you to tell us where, just if they are random all over zone or specific areas they can spawn within each zone.

What we are going to do about balance, there are MANY MAY MANY more WW spawns then Bloodfiends, and its very frustrating especially when the WW's are out killing spawns.

Thanks

Gelston · April 2014

I don't think they should tell you any of that stuff. Game secrets are fun, and it is a lot better when we figure it out as a community. I'm surprised she said as much as she did about the spawns.

liquid_wolf · April 2014

I paid 10K for my werewolf from a friend.

He only wanted 5K, and I saw people going as high as 15K... so I split the difference because I liked him.

I'll be selling mine in a few days for 3K... and I'll encourage others to sell for cheaper too.

Until it is so easy and cheap to get... it won't matter.

satyqub17_ESO · April 2014

How about - if you've killed a werewolf or vampire, you phase out from anyone who has not for a predetermined amount of time (putting the ones who have done it recently on a different phase from those who have not).

Wolfster · April 2014

This is essentially a PvP issue - one group of players being able to adversely affect the gameplay of other players by applying what would seem to be a legitimate game system.

It isn't however - as the system is designed on the whole to be co-operative (as with loot rights and kill credit being shared). In this instance one party can kill the required spawn with impunity, and there's simply no counter to that behaviour within the mechanics. It doesn't matter if you camp the spawns in order to try and get bitten, the other campers can and will also camp them and kill the spawn before you achieve your goal.

Were this another game such as, say, EVE Online, you would be provided with the tools to fight back (with a game such as EVE you can actually fight the other player - success is another matter) - in ESO the people seeking to get access to the vampire and werewolf skill lines can only passively watch - they are unable to take any preventative action whatsoever. You can't even ensure a single infection, as it's quite easy to stun lock an enemy from the moment it spawns until it dies if you really want to do so.

So this *is* griefing, it is not a competitive scenario or adversarial economic behaviour - it is wholly one-sided, essentially a monopoly. The sad fact is that it's entirely the result of obscenely poor game design in this particular situation.

Selling infections (that phrase is so, so wrong) also falls outside of the game's secure trading mechanics which while not an exploit, is certainly extremely risky for the sums of gold involved (trading them for real money is bannable afaik). Until there are prominent and trustworthy player-run escrow services (which will never be wholly secure) then it doesn't seem worth the risk to me.

The bottom line is that these are supposed to be rare, but achievable. They are currently rare and achievable but less achievable due to griefing. The game design should be improved to make this experience less frustrating by dealing with the players that get their jollies from annoying other paying customers, allowing those players that care enough to put the effort in to get their rewards.

Trouvo · April 2014

JasonConstantine wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We are continuing to monitor vampire and werewolf spawn availability. We have a few suggestions that may help those of you who are on the hunt (some of which are mentioned in this thread.)
There are multiple spawn points at any given time during the availability period for each. We encourage seeking them out, especially if you see that one is being camped.

Some people are giving away bites for free. Keep an eye out for those opportunities, and if you are able, consider paying it forward for the next person. The more the community comes together to combat those who are griefing, the less viable the griefing and price gouging will be.

Join a guild that provides free vampire and werewolf bites to its members.

If you're in an instance that is very crowded during the availability period, try relogging to be placed in a different instance.

Jessica we asked specific questions regarding the spawns multiple times and we have been ignored. We are trying to put rumors and BS to rest that is causing more in-game tension.

Specifically we have asked if the Phases of the moon truly exist and affect spawns.

If the spawns are truly random in the zone, or if they are specific spots only we are not asking you to tell us where, just if they are random all over zone or specific areas they can spawn within each zone.

What we are going to do about balance, there are MANY MAY MANY more WW spawns then Bloodfiends, and its very frustrating especially when the WW's are out killing spawns.

Thanks

"There are multiple spawn points at any given time during the availability period for each."
she kinda answered your question right there, they do have an availability period which is based on the moon phase, hence why you will see so many WWs at one time vs another.
They changed where they spawn and it is more random now this was in a previous dev post as a way to help with the campers until a better solution is created/found.

WraithAzraiel · April 2014

STOP ASKING FOR EVERYTHING TO BE HANDED TO YOU

By all things good and holy, you wanna help your fellow gamer out? Awesome, that's the decent human thing to do. But constantly whining that the Powers that Be aren't giving you all the information you need to succeed? That's just lazy

You don't get handed everything you need to succeed in life, noooo and if you do you should slap the hell out of whoever gave it to you, you need to work for it - appreciate it, respect it and be thankful for it.

I'm tired of all this participation trophy winning, non-score keeping sport playing, everybody's a winner having, you're all special cuz mommy says so knuckleheads moaning and crying sooooooo damned much that everything gets broken down Barney-style and is achievable with an infantile amount of effort

Stop bastardizing my fun

/rantoff

Wolfster · April 2014

satyqub17_ESO wrote: »

How about - if you've killed a werewolf or vampire, you phase out from anyone who has not for a predetermined amount of time (putting the ones who have done it recently on a different phase from those who have not).

The other suggestion I've seen was to make werewolves or vampires of the correct type friendly once you're infected.

Neither approach works, it's a simple matter to use an uninfected alt to conduct your camping, and you can't legitimately prevent people from getting the infections on their alts if they so wish, with no way to discern the griefer from the hunter.

They honestly need to go back to the drawing board and redesign the vampire and werewolf infection mechanics.

WraithAzraiel · April 2014

If they redesigned them it'd take less than a day for some knucklehead to figure out how to grief it, prove me wrong

Moon-and-Star · April 2014

They should make it like it was in Skyrim, when fighting any were/vamp there is a very small chance of being infected with the disease. It will make it fair for everyone, instead of making everyone stand around hoping a were/vamp will appear only to have others kill it.

accursed1 · April 2014

I'm sure that there would be less people like myself hunting werewolves (provided you are not an avid Fighters Guild person) if they made the spawns (a lot) fewer and in random locations throughout the spawn regions. It is supposed to be a "rare" mob making it feel like an achievement when you actually get it. If everyone is a vamp or a wolf, the rarity and value of this optional line goes down. They should make it something that you have to put time and effort into to get, buying bites is for the lazy people who don't want to do the leg work, or for lvl 15's (good lvl to attempt the quest line) who want to get this line early to lvl up while they are still generating ultimate for attacks/hits; and should be costly. It's like a convenience store, you pay for the convenience of not having to hunt down a rare spawn or randomly run into it. You can't feel good about an achievement if you didn't work hard to earn it.

Wolfster · April 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

If they redesigned them it'd take less than a day for some knucklehead to figure out how to grief it, prove me wrong

You realise it's impossible to prove a negative?

They might not get it right, but they certainly could do a lot better than they currently have done. The system is currently fundamentally abuseable - there are virtually no comparable flaws anywhere else in gameplay.

Even though the same problem mechanic is resultant in boss camping, bosses themselves are on a regular respawn and more importantly you only have to score a hit on them (the opposite of the infection mechanic, which is far harder to prevent) or heal a player that does (which is nearly impossible to prevent). Therefore the same frustrating inability to address the issue doesn't apply.

Werewolves and blood fiends are on an extremely slow and limited respawn, in set locations that can be learned. Your available time online might not even coincide with a relevant in-game nightfall for a period of weeks. It's just an abysmal example of game design in this instance.

Aci · April 2014

Players shouldnt be able to bite others. End of griefing and such, no matter how hard it is to get the bite from the npcs. Could be even much harder then.

Publius_Scipio · April 2014

Good people of ESO I implore you! GIVE YOUR BITE TO OTHERS FOR FREE! When you see someone in chat say they are willing to buy a bite, fly in and whisper that person and say you will give it to them for free.

This type of virtual business (bites for gold) is not one that has returning customers. Once bit you have what you want. If enough of you give out bites for free the players that are doing what they are doing will not get the gold coming in.

FIGHT BACK!

Ryvyr · April 2014

Seems asinine how a minority can ruin so much for so many, in this case of griefing and attempting to rig prices (for something that should not be a market in my opinion after 15 years of MMOs, seeing pros and cons objectively).

BlessedBySanguine · April 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

I'm sorry but I'm of the mind that if you want to get something for nothing - IE have a player bite you instead of hunting for and investing a little time in getting the bite for yourself - then a little compensation isn't that much to ask.

It's one thing when people are general d-bags and try to screw one another out of their part of the bargain but when it's a non-shady business transaction all's well.

It comes down to convenience - people pay for things to be convenient in every facet of life - why are people selling the bite automatically scammers? I've heard just as many stories of people agreeing to pay - getting bitten then logging out without paying the person they got it from

It's not any one group of people that are at fault for things like this, people as a whole generally suck - especially when they were raised as spoiled little *** who got everything they wanted and were rewarded for mediocrity and stupidity.

I blame the parents

In that case I agree. However, the issue is when groups are camping where the vampires or werewolves spawn and thus those trying to do it the old fashioned way have to try and beat them to the mob (if possible) or pay to have access to the mob and hope to be bitten.

Gelston · April 2014

Aci wrote: »

Players shouldnt be able to bite others. End of griefing and such, no matter how hard it is to get the bite from the npcs. Could be even much harder then.

I disagree. I like the ability to create a homegrown Vampire/Werewolf guild. Might be too RPy for some folks, but the ability shouldn't be taken away.

Embercraft · April 2014

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

Hello guys - wanted to drop a line at ya real quick about some despicable shiz I just heard.

Apparently there are guilds forming now, that will camp Werewolf/Vampire spawn sites, killing off the beasts ONLY to prevent other players from getting bit.

They keep the mobs for themselves so when a player wants to become one, they can EXPLOIT the player for inordinate amounts of money. I've seen bites sell for 20k all the way up to 40k... there is even talk of these guilds using paypal accounts for people to pay them.

DON'T DO THIS - THEY WILL SCAM YOU
I REPEAT IT IS A SCAM

Selling bites is NOT ILLEGAL in the game, but there is no system to ensure you will be bitten.

ZENIMAX - Stop these low-life griefers - I am NOT paying $15 a month to pay a scammer in game to exploit a skill tree that should be open FOR ALL PLAYERS.

Any thoughts?

First off...don't lump everyone into one basket. Just because someone is selling their bite doesn't in any way mean that they did anything unjust to get bitten.

I did all the legwork necessary to become a Werewolf, its open for all players...what the hell are you asking for here? To have your hand held? Give me a break. Grow up. Google it. I did it, and I did it by myself, all alone. Even while dodging the griefers.

I've also sold my bite...after I had to fight my way through a high level zone, relog several times to get an instance without griefers...get bit, do the quest...and then grind out 6 long-assed levels of Werewolf in order to have the ability to bite one person per week. It was an even exchange, I provided a short-cut convenient way for the buyer to get what he wanted and I was fairly compensated for my time and effort into assisting the buyer.

Having said this I do see the room for abuse by individuals who don't ever intend to do the biting, or pay for the bite they agreed to pay for....so to this end I offer a solution:

Convert the "bite" ability on vamps and wolves into the creation of one unique (one per inventory) token that can be traded, or sold to another player to use at their convenience. Scamming problem: solved. Not able to infect other characters on your account: solved. Sharing with others freely, guild banks, etc...:solved.

After a player's bite token ability has been used for that week, the timer resets 7 days later for that ability. Saturation problem: solved.

For Immersion:
For people who want the authentic "bite" experience...create a scenario where the user gains passage to a solo instance via said token, and must fight their way through a dungeon full of werewolves/vampires to get bitten....or make it a showdown with the alpha of the species...or you could just put a quest giver at the shrines and when a token is handed to them a werewolf/vamp spawns and bites them.

Saibot · April 2014

Guilds trying to control who does and doesn't get to be a vampire or WW is unacceptable. That being said, I wish the spawns were truly rare and random so being a vampire or WW was a big deal. I'm sure in another month or so everyone and their grandmother will be a V or WW.

SoulScream · April 2014

"or you could just put a quest giver at the shrines and when a token is handed to them a werewolf/vamp spawns and bites them."

Even better would have it randomly jump you while you're questing and give you a good scare lol

I had a mob jump out of the shadows in a dungeon the other night and I bit my tongue I startled so bad!

Emily · April 2014

I've been giving my vampire bites away for free, with the added condition that everyone I bite has to bite others for free as well. I really don't like how people are gouging this one, this kind of thing particularly disgusts me.

To the above poster: Literal *guilds* are camping the spawns. Camping it yourself is unreasonable. It has nothing to do with them being "better" than you, that's such a cop out, not everyone can be as "skilled" as you or match arrogance.

WraithAzraiel · April 2014

Negative, positive - doesn't make my point any less valid - if they can build it, some jackass can find a way to break it.

Shuk · April 2014

First, It shouldn't be easy to become a werewolf or vampire. A bit of a challenge for special bells and whistles in MMOs would be nice once in awhile.

Secondly, this isn't an exploit. Killing werewolves and vamps en masse is not only totally normal procedure for adventurers, especially from an RP standpoint - it is also expected. Hell, it would be proper to make player vampires and werewolves when in wolf form killable by other players anywhere - but MMOs have become so wussified by all this whining over the years, now ya'll can play Twilight with each other and decide who can be more broody without a silver bolt in your back as it should be.

Banditry is also entirely within the Roleplaying Game context, and if people more powerful than you have found a way to charge you for that shiny bauble that you absolutely must have RIGHT NOW, then good on them. Especially when that shiny bauble is a disease which turns you into a blood drinking undead monster.

Part of the fun of MMOs is having to deal with other people, both the good and the BAD. It is what makes them challenging, and unique, and impossible to emulate as a single-player experience. Overcoming the challenges posed entirely within the legitimate confines of the game's mechanics - such as a vampire quarantine put on by players - is something you should view as a challenge to overcome (and really, it's not that hard to overcome, I mean really).

Santiago · April 2014

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Not be an jerk about it, but you know that part right next to the M-Rate that says Online experiences may change? Yeah that covers them for the jerk offs. You are always going to get these type of *** in games like this.

People say well just don't pay them..that's never going to happen and we all know it. ZOS won't do anything about it, other than well be there before they get their for the day.

You also read the part about harassment of other players and it being bannable right? This is harassment and if reported they can be banned. Everyone who encounters these people should write down their names and report them. It's a pain but they will be dealt with.

Santiago · April 2014

Paske wrote: »

Its an MMO.

People found a way to monetize a nieche.

Its not a problem, its brilliant !
You want to be better then them ? Camp the NPCs your self, get biten, do the same for profit.

Putting some effort into a goal makes that goal worth while.

No one is "stealing from you". They are simply better at this game then you

Fact that we have all payed for the game doesn't mean you can simply log in, get stuff, because you paid and are entitled to get whatever you want.

Dictionary definition of idiocy.

Utildai · April 2014

I agree, this needs to be addressed!

Gunavar · April 2014

Johnny_NO_skillz wrote: »

Hello guys - wanted to drop a line at ya real quick about some despicable shiz I just heard.

Apparently there are guilds forming now, that will camp Werewolf/Vampire spawn sites, killing off the beasts ONLY to prevent other players from getting bit.

They keep the mobs for themselves so when a player wants to become one, they can EXPLOIT the player for inordinate amounts of money. I've seen bites sell for 20k all the way up to 40k... there is even talk of these guilds using paypal accounts for people to pay them.

DON'T DO THIS - THEY WILL SCAM YOU
I REPEAT IT IS A SCAM

Selling bites is NOT ILLEGAL in the game, but there is no system to ensure you will be bitten.

ZENIMAX - Stop these low-life griefers - I am NOT paying $15 a month to pay a scammer in game to exploit a skill tree that should be open FOR ALL PLAYERS.

Any thoughts?

Hello guys - wanted to drop a line at ya real quick about some despicable shiz I just heard.

Apparently there are guilds forming now, that will sell racial motif Khajiit, and are camping the drawer spawns to get every book they can.

They keep the books for themselves instead of distributing them to the playerbase at large so when a player wants to make Khajiit items, they can EXPLOIT the player for inordinate amounts of money. I've seen books sell for 750 all the way up to 5k... there is even talk of these guilds using paypal accounts for people to pay them.

DON'T DO THIS - THEY WILL SCAM YOU
I REPEAT IT IS A SCAM

Selling books is NOT ILLEGAL in the game, but there is no system to ensure they will give you the book.

ZENIMAX - Stop these low-life griefers - these nightstand and dresser mafiosos - I am NOT paying $15 a month to pay a scammer in game to exploit a racial motif that should be open FOR ALL PLAYERS.

Any thoughts?

Shuk · April 2014

Emily wrote: »

To the above poster: Literal *guilds* are camping the spawns. Camping it yourself is unreasonable. It has nothing to do with them being "better" than you, that's such a cop out, not everyone can be as "skilled" as you or match arrogance.

If PVP were open, your guild could take on that guild and truly figure out who is 'better'.....

But unfortunately, MMOers have whined themselves right into a corner on that one. Now they can't kill other players nor can they become Edward and sparkle as soon as they want to.