Battlegrounds DM is currently more boring than ever!

WreckfulAbandon · October 2019

Don't worry, this will all be addressed next patch when damage is further nerfed and healing is buffed in some areas. Thanks for playing

Bashev · October 2019

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Don't worry, this will all be addressed next patch when damage is further nerfed and healing is buffed in some areas. Thanks for playing

Actually it could be better because more ppl will use burst skills and will be able to kill players. Now ppl use dots and have a lot of damage but that damage is sustained and not bursted.

Calboy · October 2019

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

Bashev · October 2019

Calboy wrote: »

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

I agree with you but I think ppl who complain use burst builds that cannot play in such games because they die even with the extra healing.

Qbiken · October 2019

Bashev wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

I agree with you but I think ppl who complain use burst builds that cannot play in such games because they die even with the extra healing.

Running around fighting mini ballgroups in a large cluster of AoE and undodgable/range damage (add at least 4-5 Blackrose restoration staffs/game and 2,5 healers in each team) isn't my definition of fun. People rarely die because healing and "tankiness" is so insanely overtuned (you listed a few good reasons earlier in the thread), and I've been in DM'd where not a single team reaches above 100 points. The current state of battlegrounds (other game modes are starting to look similar as well) is just horrible

Small disclaimer:
Sure I duo queue most of the times and depending on what game mode I get I change build accordingly (due to achievement hunting), but the current state of thing are simple not enjoyable for me or the people I play with in majority of games.

Bashev · October 2019

Calboy wrote: »

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

I agree with you but I think ppl who complain use burst builds that cannot play in such games because they die even with the extra healing.

Qbiken wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

I agree with you but I think ppl who complain use burst builds that cannot play in such games because they die even with the extra healing.

Running around fighting mini ballgroups in a large cluster of AoE and undodgable/range damage (add at least 4-5 Blackrose restoration staffs/game and 2,5 healers in each team) isn't my definition of fun. People rarely die because healing and "tankiness" is so insanely overtuned (you listed a few good reasons earlier in the thread), and I've been in DM'd where not a single team reaches above 100 points. The current state of battlegrounds (other game modes are starting to look similar as well) is just horrible

Small disclaimer:
Sure I duo queue most of the times and depending on what game mode I get I change build accordingly (due to achievement hunting), but the current state of thing are simple not enjoyable for me or the people I play with in majority of games.

The only problem is when there are 2 healers in a group. ZoS should prevent that somehow.

MurderMostFoul · October 2019

I've had a number of games where both opposing teams have vastly more healing than my team, but due to their lack of offense, my team comes up with the victory.

Loads of healing and tankiness can make you hard to kill, but it won't win you the game unless your team can score the most kills as well.

magictucktuck · October 2019

Calboy wrote: »

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

I play the tank meta out of necessity, well stacking protections, its just not fun playing this way is the problem. but you literally cannot play any other way without getting stomped unless you luck out and get all three groups who are pugs and all refused to play the meta or just came back from a hiatus and don't know any better in high mmr.

people should be able to play tanks, but I would rather kill people. killing people is why I pvp. heavy attacks and healing and executing poor saps who build with out every defensive buff in the game is not fun for me

Chelo · October 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I said it from the beginning and I will said it again... BGs are bad designed, make it Team vs Team, only 2 teams fighting each other and not 3.

Believe me, it will fix everything...

ZO$ seems to have no clue on how to develop a correctly PvP mode.

2 teams fighting each other is bad pvp design. One team will just end up spawn camping the other team every match.

That's what MMR and Ranks are for...

Team vs Team and make it competitive. Nothing new, same system as any Moba out there...

Bashev · October 2019

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I said it from the beginning and I will said it again... BGs are bad designed, make it Team vs Team, only 2 teams fighting each other and not 3.

Believe me, it will fix everything...

ZO$ seems to have no clue on how to develop a correctly PvP mode.

2 teams fighting each other is bad pvp design. One team will just end up spawn camping the other team every match.

That's what MMR and Ranks are for...

Team vs Team and make it competitive. Nothing new, same system as any Moba out there...

And devs should spawn us naked and no skills and we punch to death.

Game without CD with so many sets and builds, it will be a nightmare to be balanced.

Chelo · October 2019

Bashev wrote: »

DarkGottbeard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I said it from the beginning and I will said it again... BGs are bad designed, make it Team vs Team, only 2 teams fighting each other and not 3.

Believe me, it will fix everything...

ZO$ seems to have no clue on how to develop a correctly PvP mode.

2 teams fighting each other is bad pvp design. One team will just end up spawn camping the other team every match.

That is easily fixed through multiple base exits. Or debuff areas near your base. Its not even a textbook spawn camp. You can attack from your base.

Spawn camp isnt even the correct term. You aren't holding on their spawn and immediately rekilling them the moment they spawn. They have a defensive ledge to catch their breath for as long as they want before jumping down and multiple ways to leave the respawn on some maps.

2 teams isnt bad pvp design. Its pvp. Its better team wins.

2 teams will not work in ESO or at least it will not be fun. Everyone will build up tanky builds and just try to make a few team kills.

I will never understand why people in this game, insist in going the opposite way of everything that is already tested and it's proved to be working through the years.

2 Teams has been the standard of competitive PvP for years... I repeat this is Nothing New... It's been like this forever.

Same argument happens in this game with the Global Auction House. Every damn MMO of the last 25 years had a global auction house. Why this one have to be the one trying to reinvent the wheel? And look, we still have a mess of a trading system.

Make it 2 teams, make is competitive with real Ranks and MMR, call it a day...

Love this game but I really wish it was develop from a traditional and more experienced company...

Iskiab · October 2019

Bashev wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

I agree with you but I think ppl who complain use burst builds that cannot play in such games because they die even with the extra healing.

There are a lot of players like that yes, but it wouldn’t be a full time death match if it was.

Bashev · October 2019

Chelo wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

DarkGottbeard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I said it from the beginning and I will said it again... BGs are bad designed, make it Team vs Team, only 2 teams fighting each other and not 3.

Believe me, it will fix everything...

ZO$ seems to have no clue on how to develop a correctly PvP mode.

2 teams fighting each other is bad pvp design. One team will just end up spawn camping the other team every match.

That is easily fixed through multiple base exits. Or debuff areas near your base. Its not even a textbook spawn camp. You can attack from your base.

Spawn camp isnt even the correct term. You aren't holding on their spawn and immediately rekilling them the moment they spawn. They have a defensive ledge to catch their breath for as long as they want before jumping down and multiple ways to leave the respawn on some maps.

2 teams isnt bad pvp design. Its pvp. Its better team wins.

2 teams will not work in ESO or at least it will not be fun. Everyone will build up tanky builds and just try to make a few team kills.

I will never understand why people in this game, insist in going the opposite way of everything that is already tested and it's proved to be working through the years.

2 Teams has been the standard of competitive PvP for years... I repeat this is Nothing New... It's been like this forever.

Same argument happens in this game with the Global Auction House. Every damn MMO of the last 25 years had a global auction house. Why this one have to be the one trying to reinvent the wheel? And look, we still have a mess of a trading system.

Make it 2 teams, make is competitive with real Ranks and MMR, call it a day...

Love this game but I really wish it was develop from a traditional and more experienced company...

I guess you have no idea about the ESO combat. I will be curious if devs introduce 2 teams BGs and I will be looking forward to play them but if you think that now ppl complain about premade and extremely OP setups, then it will be three or four times worse.

My opinion is that the combat is not suited for 2 teams not that the model is not good.

kalunte · October 2019

@magictucktuck
- "squishy" builds work. they are not optimal, but all way of playing are viable somehow.

@Chelo
-mate, if this game was like all other game with team1 vs team2 pvp, 1global action house and so on this would just not be this game.

those things make the game different and very enjoyable.

Juhasow · October 2019

Calboy wrote: »

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

Because it's kinda boring when 4 people playing in coordinated way and focusing same targets with timed burst combos cant kill anyone because 1 person in enemy team is spamming 1-2 buttons.

Juhasow · October 2019

Bashev wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Don't worry, this will all be addressed next patch when damage is further nerfed and healing is buffed in some areas. Thanks for playing

Actually it could be better because more ppl will use burst skills and will be able to kill players. Now ppl use dots and have a lot of damage but that damage is sustained and not bursted.

Problem is even right now when You apply DoTs plus keeping direct dmg burst pressure on enemy it's sometimes hard to kill anyone if there is healer around. That issue will be just bigger next update. ZoS made some adjustments to offensive power of healers by reducing the effectiveness of warden ult or templar puryfying light but those changes are like putting small patch on broken bone sticking from the body.

Iskiab · October 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Don't worry, this will all be addressed next patch when damage is further nerfed and healing is buffed in some areas. Thanks for playing

Actually it could be better because more ppl will use burst skills and will be able to kill players. Now ppl use dots and have a lot of damage but that damage is sustained and not bursted.

Problem is even right now when You apply DoTs plus keeping direct dmg burst pressure on enemy it's sometimes hard to kill anyone if there is healer around. That issue will be just bigger next update. ZoS made some adjustments to offensive power of healers by reducing the effectiveness of warden ult or templar puryfying light but those changes are like putting small patch on broken bone sticking from the body.

You need to change hard to impossible for dot specs to kill anyone with a healer. Ever feel like people are playing different games?

You have two sets of opinions here:
1. Average player who gets farmed hard as soon as they get to the middle BG tiers in pvp. Still believes we’re in a dot meta and can’t kill anyone in battlegrounds.
2. People in higher MMR who have healer’s around using cleanse. Dots are irrelevant and used to heal team mates, do more harm than good to your team by relying on them. Still using burst combos and not having issues.

There are games that go to full time yea, but I’d put them at less than half and it depends on who you’re fighting. Sometimes you have matches against a NB team who hide delaying the inevitable.

You might not always have a healer around in a BG, but when there is one it’s purely dot specs that are the issue, they’re horrible. It’s also been changed on PTS already with the cleanse nerf so things will go back to being how they were pre-last patch, dots are bad if you don’t follow them up with burst.

Epicasballs · October 2019

Healing is stronger than damage. I had 2.1 mil damage with 7 kills in a TDM. Good healers can go a match without a death even when 6 DDs are going ham on them. Prepare yourself for next update when damage gets nerfed while heals stay the same. High MMR matches might see 1 or 2 deaths total. Fun stuff. Can't wait.

iCaliban · October 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

I agree with you but I think ppl who complain use burst builds that cannot play in such games because they die even with the extra healing.

Running around fighting mini ballgroups in a large cluster of AoE and undodgable/range damage (add at least 4-5 Blackrose restoration staffs/game and 2,5 healers in each team) isn't my definition of fun. People rarely die because healing and "tankiness" is so insanely overtuned (you listed a few good reasons earlier in the thread), and I've been in DM'd where not a single team reaches above 100 points. The current state of battlegrounds (other game modes are starting to look similar as well) is just horrible

Small disclaimer:
Sure I duo queue most of the times and depending on what game mode I get I change build accordingly (due to achievement hunting), but the current state of thing are simple not enjoyable for me or the people I play with in majority of games.

People build tanky because damage is so high, that to build any other way requires a very difficult playstyle. In bgs specifically. Any player not running at least 1 defensive set in light or medium, is liable to be disintegrated.

For reference, my new stamplar, with brp DW, brass, can get deleted even with major protection and vigor up. Thats how high damage is.

Stibbons · October 2019

Oh my god my tank is so tanky that it is not even fun. So are all the other people too. Tank meta just exploded.

Drdeath20 · October 2019

Capture the relic is worst BG mode.

Qbiken · October 2019

iCaliban wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

I don't understand why people are complaining about this. Even if the time limit is hit you will probably get a winner. Its just like any sport. Sometimes it's a high scoring affair, other times the game might end 0-0.

I agree with you but I think ppl who complain use burst builds that cannot play in such games because they die even with the extra healing.

Running around fighting mini ballgroups in a large cluster of AoE and undodgable/range damage (add at least 4-5 Blackrose restoration staffs/game and 2,5 healers in each team) isn't my definition of fun. People rarely die because healing and "tankiness" is so insanely overtuned (you listed a few good reasons earlier in the thread), and I've been in DM'd where not a single team reaches above 100 points. The current state of battlegrounds (other game modes are starting to look similar as well) is just horrible

Small disclaimer:
Sure I duo queue most of the times and depending on what game mode I get I change build accordingly (due to achievement hunting), but the current state of thing are simple not enjoyable for me or the people I play with in majority of games.

People build tanky because damage is so high, that to build any other way requires a very difficult playstyle. In bgs specifically. Any player not running at least 1 defensive set in light or medium, is liable to be disintegrated.

For reference, my new stamplar, with brp DW, brass, can get deleted even with major protection and vigor up. Thats how high damage is.

If survivability came from good positioning and tactics (like pre-kiting or 3rd party an enemy team) then I'd be all for it. But when majority of players survive due to 2-3 specific sets and/or numerous pocket healers, then something needs adjustments. People can make one mistake after the other and it doesn't matter because you know that your pocket healer with a brp resto staff will bring you back to full hp.

Lokey0024 · October 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Maybe the issue is your playstyle. 1.5 million damage should be enough damage to kill someone 30 times over so 5 deaths seems low.

Are you by chance spamming dots and expecting it to be able to kill people?

Daemonai wrote: »

Blackrose Prison Dual Wield + Blackrose Prison Restoration Staff

Keep it on the hush, though.

BRP DW isn’t the issue, he did a lot of damage so I doubt outgoing damage is the issue? If the issue was major protection he wouldn’t have done 1.5 million.

More time alive=more damage done.

Chelo · October 2019

Bashev wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

DarkGottbeard wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I said it from the beginning and I will said it again... BGs are bad designed, make it Team vs Team, only 2 teams fighting each other and not 3.

Believe me, it will fix everything...

ZO$ seems to have no clue on how to develop a correctly PvP mode.

2 teams fighting each other is bad pvp design. One team will just end up spawn camping the other team every match.

That is easily fixed through multiple base exits. Or debuff areas near your base. Its not even a textbook spawn camp. You can attack from your base.

Spawn camp isnt even the correct term. You aren't holding on their spawn and immediately rekilling them the moment they spawn. They have a defensive ledge to catch their breath for as long as they want before jumping down and multiple ways to leave the respawn on some maps.

2 teams isnt bad pvp design. Its pvp. Its better team wins.

2 teams will not work in ESO or at least it will not be fun. Everyone will build up tanky builds and just try to make a few team kills.

I will never understand why people in this game, insist in going the opposite way of everything that is already tested and it's proved to be working through the years.

2 Teams has been the standard of competitive PvP for years... I repeat this is Nothing New... It's been like this forever.

Same argument happens in this game with the Global Auction House. Every damn MMO of the last 25 years had a global auction house. Why this one have to be the one trying to reinvent the wheel? And look, we still have a mess of a trading system.

Make it 2 teams, make is competitive with real Ranks and MMR, call it a day...

Love this game but I really wish it was develop from a traditional and more experienced company...

I guess you have no idea about the ESO combat. I will be curious if devs introduce 2 teams BGs and I will be looking forward to play them but if you think that now ppl complain about premade and extremely OP setups, then it will be three or four times worse.

My opinion is that the combat is not suited for 2 teams not that the model is not good.

Been playing MMOs from almost 20 years, believe me when I say ESO it's not that "special snowflake"...

The problem here are 2 things. First, ZO$ has no real experience developing MMOs, this is their first one, and they decided to "experiment" with ESO, instead of actually using every concept that already work in the genre, they are trying to reinvent everything from zero... When they should rather try to improve existing concepts instead of trying to reinvent their own (guild trading and 5 guilds just to trade, will always be a mess).

Second problem, the community here is very very new to this genre too. Most of the people here came from Skyrim (a solo RPG) and they were expecting Skyrim 2 coop mode. So most of the players here have no real criteria to give their opinion about what works and what not.

This clearly isn't a good MMO to start in this genre because this is lacking of a lot of things.

And I feel sorry for people who didn't play MMOs during the golden age of the genre and start with this one.

Jesus, we got "dueling" almost 2 years after release and we required a whole new expansion just to get BGs. That kind of stuff is BASIC for any MMO at launch or at least in the first year...

And now they are changing the combat and experimenting with it every 3 months... If you thing this kind of stuff is normal for an almost 6 year old MMO, you clearly have no experience with this genre at all...

I remembered playing WoW Arenas for hours back in the day. And I still waiting for Arenas in this game. Arenas are the real small scale PvP and imo the best way to PvP in MMOs with Ranks and Rewards, it's how people actually show their skill in PvP. (2v2, 3v3 and 5v5).

Team vs Team vs Team, is a total mess. Not a single real life Sport or eSport plays like that. There's always going to be one Guy vs another Guy or one Team vs another Team (unless it is "free for all" or a Battle Royal like PUBG or Fortnite).

The point is competitive PvP will always revolves around 2 variables (2 Teams or 2 guys) but introducing a 3rd variable will make a total mess...

Iskiab · October 2019

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Maybe the issue is your playstyle. 1.5 million damage should be enough damage to kill someone 30 times over so 5 deaths seems low.

Are you by chance spamming dots and expecting it to be able to kill people?

Daemonai wrote: »

Blackrose Prison Dual Wield + Blackrose Prison Restoration Staff

Keep it on the hush, though.

BRP DW isn’t the issue, he did a lot of damage so I doubt outgoing damage is the issue? If the issue was major protection he wouldn’t have done 1.5 million.

More time alive=more damage done.

Yea that’s true.

I think one issue people are massively missing is people build tanky because it’s more fun for them. High damage and low defense promotes ranged cat and mouse games which are not fun.

All these requests for nerfs to be able to brawl will just force people to become more and more tanky.

Everyone has it backwards - the more you nerf tankiness the less you need to spec for damage to kill people. If anything the pendulum has swung way too far in favour of damage over defense so some classes can’t even brawl anymore and teams of tanks can kill people. Swing it back the other way so tank’s can’t kill anyone and you’ll have people spec like dps.

The game would actually be better right now if battle spirit cut damage and healing down to 25% from 50%.

InvictusApollo · October 2019

kolegator wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

kolegator wrote: »

Seriously, I can't remember when was the last time I had over 10 matches in a day that had to end with a time limit because everyone seems to be indestructible, teams just spamming at each other with little or no result for 15 minutes with scores barely moving until the time limit hits.

It just seems ridiculous that I did 1.2, 1.5 and even 1.7 mil damage in a match and killed like 5 people in total, the rest just got absorbed and healed or whatever and nothing happened, nor did they do much more except survive and barely got a few kills in 15 minutes. And it's like that game after game after game. Death-matches with everything except deaths.

Is everyone playing full heavy + max health and regen now because something is broken or what?

I really hope someone takes that into consideration and suggests what can be done because i doubt other participants in those matches had much of a blast too, and most of them are really good players and regulars in EU BG DM.

Let me explain what happened to you. You climbed into a higher MMR bracket thjat is populated with people who prefer to survive and skillfully burn their targets down instead of oneshotting and being oneshotted. Oneshotting might be an overstatement but you know what I mean. Soon you will adapt to this and start killing more and more. You will climb higher and higher untill you reach the bracket with mini ballgroups and decide to drop BGs totally. At least that's what I did.

Oof, now you really explained it to me...

But why not just directly call me a noob instead of just insinuate it like this?

Dude, I'm not new to this game so pls before you decide to condescend to someone like this try to get some facts first.

I haven't based this post on 100 hours of playtime q-ing with people i've never heard of or played with. You can even read where you quoted me that i've mentioned really good and regular players on EU BG DM that I usually play with/against so I pretty much know how higher MMR bracket works in BGs and that's why I posted this in the first place, because I've seen many of those players, including me, complain about boring matches because of some imbalance in higher MMR brackets.

I'm not used to "oneshotting" people but I'm also not used to people being scared of engagements and instead hiding behind a wall of healers and heavy armours waiting for a time limit to hit so they can profit from a mere of 3 kills they manged to dish out. That is not what death-match is supposed to be. In any game.

Sorry. I actually tried being nice

Chelo · October 2019

kalunte wrote: »

@magictucktuck
- "squishy" builds work. they are not optimal, but all way of playing are viable somehow.

@Chelo
-mate, if this game was like all other game with team1 vs team2 pvp, 1global action house and so on this would just not be this game.

those things make the game different and very enjoyable.

Not enjoyable, it actually make the game a mess... I'm a traditional MMO player. I like the combat of this game with no CDs and maintaining resources (also active blocking and dodging), but I don't give a damn about making the game "original".

I think "action combat", like this game, is the future of MMOs, but only the gameplay. All the other traditional concepts of MMOs need to stay wrote in stone for good. They work and have been working from almost 25 years....