SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

That’s just your opinion and it will never happen major and minor buffs are always 30% and minor 8% why would that change for this buff only.

Wow. Where do you get your information? That's not even close to being true.

My bad lol I was thinking major/minor vitality the other one people complains the most about while writing this xD

Still before that potatoes couldn't kill someone trough damage shields now it's major protection...

Instead of adding a purge to each class you could just add a purge (or a spell with a purge mechanic) to Mages Guild. I believe the guild line only has 4 actives and an ultimate where all others have 5 actives. This would make it a little easier for PvE'ers to get a purge if they don't want to go into PvP.

@Glory thanks for the info, appreciate the class reps hard work.

@Glory @Quantum_V
somthing to help dk class identity would be a rework of standard it should bring a buff to group not really a defile like major heroism to allies inside the banner and shifting should be play based aoe.
the engulfing change to scale of spell dmg is nerf because you want have 100% uptime on that much spell dmg and a lot of pvp builds especially non-cp builds want get that much. another idea should be done to make magdks bring something to the group. which major heroism would do that from idea above.
something else for dk identity would be to make dks stronger the longer they fight. like the molten whip spell dmg stacks could be a passive and stack up to 5 or 10 and granting 250 to 350 weapon and spell dmg. maybe only to ardent flame abilities.
Wings are complete trash now not from this patch but from when they removed the reflect they aren't worth the slot not even for the snare removal. you get better survivability from either harness magicka or resto staff HoT. they could of added a fatigue like with dodge rolls and bolt escape.
molten armaments heavy attack increase is not good anymore especially for magdk with how long destroy staff heavy takes even though they are melee. if y'all don't plan on making a magick melee weapon skill line make molten armaments turn melee light and heavy attacks deal fire or poison dmg based on higher stats and return resourced based on highest resource so magicka would get magicka back and stam would still get stam back would give identity to both specs.
For dk healers I think they should be about mitigation would thing that would help would be to make fragmented shield scale of max magicka should give about a 6k shield to group. remove major mending and give it a more unique buff a HoT to should or maybe a healer when shield is popped.
cinder could remove the snare from it and give minor evasion to it so would give dk healers something bring to group
cauterize could tick more often or give it two balls that go off at same time and it should only heal group member not random people but only can get hit with one ball not two if you go that route. and please change the animation on it its a red inner light

Revokus wrote: »

Darsaga wrote: »

Only things I want additional emphasis on:

1. Major Protection: A fair percent to not eliminate the buff would be 15%.

2. Minor Protection: Reduce to 5%. Most people using this buff solely will not notice the 3% decrease. Additionally it would then have a grand total of 20% mitigation when paired with major, which is what is plaguing and terribly slowing the flow of PvP combat.

The combination of these two buffs plus sets that just give flat additional mitigation or absolutely ludicrous. PvE doesn’t need it and neither does PvP.

3. Please don’t mess with NBs they are finally performing like most normal classes. Now you death stroke, fear, bow, vs fear, death stroke, bow. The results are the same. A good player it will be hard to land on a bad player dies. You bring the stun back it’s just something free for no reason, and from stealth cause very delayed or even perma CC scenarios.

Also if you do start bringing power back to NBs the real problem needs to be fixed and that is cloaks uptime. It should be an exponential cost like dodge roll or streak. Magblades if used properly have the mag pool to sustain it, and Stam blades cant abuse it. All the old things could be given back as far as I’m concerned as long as the fight can’t be reset every 6 seconds.

There are more things but I’m typing on my tablet and cant be bothered. Those are my additional concerns.
Thank you so much for the time and effort you all put into this.

That’s just your opinion and it will never happen major and minor buffs are always 30% and minor 8% why would that change for this buff only.

Me I’m happy to have an alternative and finally gave up on damage shields with my magnecro. Magicka classes that don’t have access to damage shields absolutely need major/minor protection in PvP.

All major and minor buffs 30% and 8%? You are so wrong my friend. Just so I don’t have to type them all out here is a link.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs

Also it may be an opinion but it is also a fact that major protection is a problem.

There is one thing I'm still trying to understand:

We want all classes to have: Spamable, self purge, aoe, class synergies, CC, access to major defensive buffs, mele options, range options, Stamina option, Magicka options, we want all of them to be able to fit in the meta we have made in any role and at the same time having unique feeling and identity.

Especially we don't want this identity to be just a cosmetic thing...

All of it in PVP and PVE with only 5 skills per skill tree and 3 skill trees per class.

hahahaha, This is interesting, what an amazing way to challenge dev's creativity. I like it, I really do ^^

Let's see if they are capable of such a challenge.

Thanks @Glory for making this post, and the other class reps for helping develop it and providing further comments in this thread. It is good to see a summary of a lot of the feedback from the forums, and I doubt that it is easy to do given the diverse range of (often conflicting) feedback and suggestions we as players give.

Just two things I would like to touch on.

1)

[*] DoT change to 1.25x too much (1.8x?)

I would be concerned that a simple re-buff of all dots would simply send us back to a DoT meta of U23, as we would then have numerous DoTs that all outclass spammables again. Your later point

[*] Class DoTs could have a different, higher power budget compared to weapon/non-class DoTs which would alleviate the pain point of DoT-centric classes such as Dragonknights for Dragonhold.

May be a better way of addressing this. Alternatively, its not that class DoTs need a higher power budget (which could lead to imbalance), but they could instead get away with having more of their power budget spent on damage and less on utility or have a tradeoff from the standard (like increased cost or a conditional damage increase) to compensate for the increased damage. Where as some of the weapon/non class DoTs could have less of their power budget used on damage but get more of it on utility to further differentiate them (from class DoTs and each other).

2)
Necro Colossus ult is problematic as it provides group utility in a different way to all the other classes. ie: It is tied to a one specific skill and provides the utility buff for a short duration with low uptime from an individual, whereas all other classes provide their utility buffs through passives and provide high uptime from one individual.
I am yet to see a proposed change to this skill to this that doesn't simply trade one issue for another.
ie:

Perhaps a cooldown to Major Vulnerability like Off-Balance immunity would be more of an appropriate change

could cause the case where you can "waste" the ultimate if you use it while it is on cooldown from someone else, so could still have a negative effect on less organised groups and pvp. Also such a cool down seems out of place as no other major/minor buffs/debuffs have it.

toning down the value and re-lengthening the duration

could make it too much like minor vulnerability and doesn't actually fix the issue of stacking necros, it just means you have to stack less.
The only way I see this being resolved in a balanced way is through a major change where either:
a) Necro colossus ult loses major Vulnerability (and gets something else to compensate)and instead Necros get a new group utility minor buff from a passive like all the other classes. But this would need a new minor buff to be created.
b) Other classes gain a different short term high effect group utility buff from a skill to compete with Necro for stacking - like others have already suggested in this thread regarding Sorcs Atro synergy. But even in this case you would only get stacking of the classes that get such a buff, so it would likely need to happen to all classes.
I recognise though that both these options would require significantly more thought and work though so are less likely to occur.
Sidenote: This problem is only going to repeat if/when ZOS add another new class unless new minor/major buffs get created. So in some ways creating a few new minor buffs/debuffs and using one for necro and saving the others for future classes would help avoid this issue in future.

Thanks so much for the write up and transparency. Looks great, and I appreciate your efforts.

(Minor note that I'm not in agreement about giving every class a purge. I like to switch between toons for different playstyles based on varied strengths/weaknesses. But I don't pvp, so my perspective is limited.)

eso_lags wrote: »

Nefas wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

The only thing this lacks is anything about pvp performance. This is the problem with have no console class reps, and im not sure about pvp main class reps. But I'd bet anything that if there was a class rep, pvp main, here on xbox that played in the 30 day campaign, they would bring it up at every meeting. Not to badger them, just to remind them that people are pretty much unable to play. Because thats what it is.

Cab is a class rep from console.

So he is, thanks. Not sure how many class reps there have been but this is definitely a good start.

After watching a few videos I cant tell if he pvps or not, the ones I saw were mainly pve focused but I didnt watch all of them. Plus im not sure how pvp is on PS4, but I really wouldn't be surprised if its just bad as xbox..

I did see a video that was helpful though. Apparently @CAB_Life is now, or will be, playing on xbox. So thats good to hear, but like I said im not sure if he pvps so I dont know if he will experience the issues that we do on xbox. Either way I hope someday we get a console class rep who pvps on a regular basis, if thats not what cab does.. And if it is then great. The game and classes are so different in pvp vs pve, as well as on console vs on PC.

But really the point of what I said was that if there were a console class rep that was a main pvper, that played the main campaign on xbox on a regular basis, Im sure they would be bringing this issue up whenever they could. Because its unplayable. Maybe when cab gets some gear and CP he can hop into the 30 day on xbox and try to experience pvp. Class doesnt matter when you cant use skills and certain skills function completely different on console compared to PC. Some of that is minor but some of it, because of the performance difference, is major, such as cast time skills.

At the moment, I am essentially a PVP main. I’ve cleared all the Vet Trials and PVE content in the game and due to how grouping is structured in this game (poorly), I no longer do that content regularly as it’s time-consuming to organize (not to mention the performance issues and bugs on all platforms). My routine is as follows: log in on eight toons, do writs, log onto my main (atm I’m slogging it out with necro and have been since the last Chapter), do a daily random vet—doesn’t matter which or who, I’ll pug the hardest content if it pops as that’s the fun and challenge. Afterward, I do BGs, Cyrodiil and IC depending on my mood and until my play session ends. I’ll have more to share on my overall impressions with necro soon, particularly in PVP content, and I do ask console specific questions and community concerns during the meetings—I can’t quite discuss the results of more recent discussions just yet, but will as soon as that info is vetted.

About half of my ESO content is actually PVP focused except for “Fun with Pugs”, which focuses on the “fun” (lol) of random grouping and encounters. In PVE, I really do enjoy hammering through stuff with newbs and/ or super skilled players. That’s the joy of the roulette. You never know what you’re gonna get!

If you’d ever like to do BGs, Cyro or duel on PS4 (Xbox account still very much a baby, but getting there), feel free to add me to PSN. It sounds as if you’re primarily on Xbox, though, and having both platforms now I can tell you that the performance and woes are shared between platforms. The ‘enhanced’ consoles certainly alleviate the worst of the crashes and bugs, and the Xbox One X graphical tweaks make it the shiniest of the pack. Still, the developers have a lot to do with regards to performance and hopefully we’ll see the fruits of that labor soon.

Glory wrote: »

[*] Class DoTs could have a different, higher power budget compared to weapon/non-class DoTs which would alleviate the pain point of DoT-centric classes such as Dragonknights for Dragonhold.

I don't think it's necessary to establish a different standard for Class DoTs themselves. This might be best solved through improving related class passives like Searing Heat in the case of DKs.

Class passives in general are a great source for identity, making certain skill choices more preferable than others so there is not one BIS skill set for every class. Your suggestion for "More crit damage to chilled enemies" as a Warden passive is a great example.

In general, passives didn't seem to get addressed much this patch. Wasn't that on the agenda?

Glory wrote: »

Second note: ESO is a large community and thus you may not agree with all of this feedback.

Summary of Negatives

[*] DoT change to 1.25x too much (1.8x?)
[*] DoT flavor for classes that rely on DoT playstyle (mDK, sDK) will be important if they are
reduced overall.

There are some points I don't agree with. Mostly it's about DoTs. They need to bring DoTs to where they were before the massive buff, before soul trap, entropy and poison injection hit that hard. Solo No CP PvP is unplayable because of the buffs.

The DoT meta is unhealthy for PvE and PvP because it is too easy to keep DoTs up and they simply hit too hard. Patches before achievments like IR were difficult to get, now you simply place 5 DoTs on the main boss and on minis and you will deal 40k+ dps..

I agree that DoT classes like DK need some love tho.

Glory wrote: »

Summary of Positives

• Bound Armaments looks cool.
• 3 Piece Changes are AWESOME
  

I've read every single sorcerer/ bound armaments thread in the PTS and I can't recall more than a handfull of people who found the animation (or sound) of BA to look fitting or even good. Vast majority called it "sticking like antlers to your ears" etc.

Also, while most of the 3p sets are good now, Agility and Willpower look a bit underwhelming, while Endurance got a really, really big health regen boni. I don't know if 42 effective weapon/ spell damage more will be a reason to now use it more. But I guess it's because of set boni budget standards.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

If you go to ZOS like this, we'll have a nerfed BoL and a bad Streak next patch.

Yep, sometimes I wonder what this is all about. Did Streak needed that change? It was okay how it was. BoL should stun at the starting position to make it an escape tool only.

Change fatigue on a lot of the playerbase.

This is the most important point, I think. Thank you for bringing it up.

What's the process for submitted feedback to class reps?
When you guys receive this feedback; how do you determine what goes forward in your summary?

In general, I'm curious about the process you all use to interact with the rest of the user base?