Combat changes destroyed end-game population.

daedalusAI · September 2019

ziaodix wrote: »

They're just following the old mantra, "You have to break it before you can fix." Granted they've been "breaking" it for quite some time now and we're all still wondering when the "fix" it phase begins, but I digress.

That requires a proper scope/goal to work towards, which ZOS clearly doesn't have after 5+ years as you can see just by comparing the scope of U23 with U24 and the constant 180° in terms of direction.

I mean even a half-decent software company would have a somewhat stable software base after 5+ years, but not this small indie company called ZOS.

Inklings · September 2019

ziaodix wrote: »

They're just following the old mantra, "You have to break it before you can fix." Granted they've been "breaking" it for quite some time now and we're all still wondering when the "fix" it phase begins, but I digress.

They should be breaking it and rebuilding it behind the scenes. The fact that they are using paying customers as ginni pigs for a whole year or more to figure this out while leaving the game in the state it is hurts me as a loyal customer more then the changes themselves.

SeaUnicorn · September 2019

Then again old content got too easy with power creep, but new content is DESIGNED to high DPS markers. Take Godslayer and Griffin Heart pre-reqs. Instead of nerfing everyone and enraging player base ZOS could just revisit old content.
Or nerf DPS but the scale back new content so we can actually complete it.
In addition to that current approach nerfs skills, which were not a culprit of power creep and weighs set damage (relequen) and flawed animation canceling system much more in the dps output making difference between floor and ceiling that much higher, hence we will have that much harder time finding good players to fill trial rosters.
Who didn't struggle to understand why arrow barrage animations "sticks", transfers on bar-swap and eats a light attack after? And why in the hell do i need to light attack before bar swap in order for arrow barrage to animate correctly? Who doesn't click LA 2-4 times before the skill to ensure that server does not "miss" it? That's just wrong and needed fixing for such a long time. ZOS is not worried about it, they just take this flawed animation canceling side effect of game design and bank on it.
Either fix animation canceling so it doesn't have hidden mechanics that are not easy to understand for a new player, make LAs go trhough properly and then make LA damage prevalent in the game or raise the DPS of skill and lower the dps of LAs.

Vahrokh · September 2019

ziaodix wrote: »

They're just following the old mantra, "You have to break it before you can fix." Granted they've been "breaking" it for quite some time now and we're all still wondering when the "fix" it phase begins, but I digress.

There's also another mantra: "don't fix what's not broken".

ESO at release had 70% of it's entire content and gameplay done right. That's what made it so successful, after years and years of half failed MMOs.

Had ZOS focused on polishing and rewriting the bad 30%, today we'd have "Classic ESO", not this "BFA ESO" we have today.

p00tx · September 2019

code65536 wrote: »

When a game feels more exhausting than fun, when people dread patch notes instead of looking forward to them, you know it's time to get a new combat team.

This 100%.

When a key member of your combat team publicly admits that all they've done in the game is play some BGs, you have to know they're not going to have the first clue how to properly balance the game. Almost every single one of these changes reeks of a small-scale PvPer's perspective (I know this because it's where I spent most of my gaming time). There was ZERO consideration for how these changes would negatively impact the PvE side of the game. The last group was just as bad, but on the opposite side of that. Zero love for PvP left us floundering and without developer support.

Zos needs to stop bringing in niche players who only know about one aspect of the game, and bring in people who actually love and play the game, and who actually play more than one, small, niche aspect of it.

To those of you who keep saying "good riddance" to the end game community, shame on you. Seriously. You don't throw members of your greater community under the bus just because you aren't personally being affected by negative changes. You stand up with them and act like a decent human being. I know many of you are roleplayers and vanilla gamers, but if Zos stood up one day and said "hey, we're going to massively f*%k with the lore and swap everything around. Almalexia will become a half mortal, half Maormer, druid cat-priestess from Narnia" or whatever would make you guys freak out, I'd absolutely stand with you guys and shout them down for being so blindly stupid. I'd never say "I don't care. I can go on with my game with these changes, so why can't you? Just adjust or get going". We're not even really playing the same game (so why would your ability to adjust set a bench mark for acceptability?), but we're still in this together, so quit being a bunch of turds and help us out.

SeaUnicorn · September 2019

I guess this topic gained enough of feedback on a general direction of the game to warrant the tag
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Jaraal · September 2019

JAwtunes wrote: »

Maybe they are hoping experienced players are skilled enough to adapt

Not enough skilled players to replace the income from all the casual players who are leaving because they can’t adapt.

SeaUnicorn · September 2019

Jaraal wrote: »

JAwtunes wrote: »

Maybe they are hoping experienced players are skilled enough to adapt

Not enough skilled players to replace the income from all the casual players who are leaving because they can’t adapt.

Definitely. I have a member of core team who just finally learned all dot rotation last Wednesday and was able to bring it to the trial and be comfortable with it. In 4 weeks they will have to re-learn all over again and their progress will be set back by a month or two again.

daedalusAI · September 2019

p00tx wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

When a game feels more exhausting than fun, when people dread patch notes instead of looking forward to them, you know it's time to get a new combat team.

This 100%.

When a key member of your combat team publicly admits that all they've done in the game is play some BGs, you have to know they're not going to have the first clue how to properly balance the game. Almost every single one of these changes reeks of a small-scale PvPer's perspective (I know this because it's where I spent most of my gaming time). There was ZERO consideration for how these changes would negatively impact the PvE side of the game. The last group was just as bad, but on the opposite side of that. Zero love for PvP left us floundering and without developer support.

Zos needs to stop bringing in niche players who only know about one aspect of the game, and bring in people who actually love and play the game, and who actually play more than one, small, niche aspect of it.

To those of you who keep saying "good riddance" to the end game community, shame on you. Seriously. You don't throw members of your greater community under the bus just because you aren't personally being affected by negative changes. You stand up with them and act like a decent human being. I know many of you are roleplayers and vanilla gamers, but if Zos stood up one day and said "hey, we're going to massively f*%k with the lore and swap everything around. Almalexia will become a half mortal, half Maormer, druid cat-priestess from Narnia" or whatever would make you guys freak out, I'd absolutely stand with you guys and shout them down for being so blindly stupid. I'd never say "I don't care. I can go on with my game with these changes, so why can't you? Just adjust or get going". We're not even really playing the same game (so why would your ability to adjust set a bench mark for acceptability?), but we're still in this together, so quit being a bunch of turds and help us out.

Nobody can help us customers, as ZOS doesn't care about feedback during PTS, they just outsource QA to the players.

If ZOS would care U23 with its 2.5x DoT scaling would've never hit life server in its state, but it did - and that should tell you about everything there is to know about ZOS and their "capabilities" and integrity as a software company.

In essence: don't waste your time arguing with them, providing evidence, alternative solutions etc. - they have an undefined goal in mind, if any goal at all, so your customer feedback is just white noise to them.

jecks33 · September 2019

daedalusAI wrote: »

they have an undefined goal in mind, if any goal at all, so your customer feedback is just white noise to them.

i like to think that they have a definied goal in mind, i just want them to tell us the details, where this game is going and how much time/patches we must wait

Major_Lag · September 2019

jecks33 wrote: »

i like to think that they have a definied goal in mind, i just want them to tell us the details, where this game is going and how much time/patches we must wait

There isn't any.

If there were ANY sort of goal, any at all, they wouldn't be buffing abilities by ~100% one patch and then nerfing the very same abilities by ~66% next patch.

LadyNalcarya · September 2019

Calm_Fury wrote: »

slofwnd wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

It’s almost as if the “endgame” “community” hasn’t yet figured out how to engage these very challenging endgame encounters the way the devs actually designed/intended them and instead obsessively focus on attaining and then “requiring” absurdly high DPS numbers that sidestep that design/intention.

I’m reminded of how, for instance, vMOL HM was beaten way back in the day when 30k DPS was considered godly...but now the “endgame” “community” insists you “can’t” beat that HM with less than 50k (or whatever ridiculously inflated number gets pulled out of someone’s nether regions this week).

...when since the trial was released, nothing has actually changed.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The problem though is that often the mechanic is DPS. In a lot of ESO content, if your DPS is above "X" (and that number can vary from Trial to Trial and boss to boss), the content is fairly easy. If your DPS is blow "X", you wipe. It is a very black and white approach to mechanics. If the loss of DPS made people say, "Oh geez, killing boss A is gonna take 20 minutes now instead of 10 minutes," or, "Oh geez, we are gonna see that mechanic 5 times now instead of 3, which gives us 2 extra times to mess it up," I think there would be less outrage. But people see these changes and are like, "Oh geez, if our guild's average in-Trial DPS drops from 35k to 28k, it is not gonna take us longer to get a clear, or require us to handle more or new mechanics, it is going to be impossible."

The DPS obsession in this game is because there are so many bright-line DPS walls. It is rare that content is harder because of lowered DPS. Content becomes impossible. This is no fun for high-end groups, either! This whip-sawing back and forth between easy and impossible based on hard DPS checks all over the content is why there is such a disconnect between some forum goers saying "game too easy" and others saying, "my guild is collapsing because game is impossible."

Absolutely agree. Take vMOL HM. My group is currently progressing through it. 5 pad burn is alright, on 6th pad it turns into horrendous cancer of tether prog, ppl are dying like flies. Se we opted to bring as many stamcros as possible because we just can't deal with the mechs after 5th pad...

I agree with the DPS nerfs, but this is what kills population when nerfs happen.

I remember vividly my beginner guild progressing Crag Trials HM and speed runs before Morrowind. We were all really close, getting to 15-10% and 1-2 minutes before wiping. Then the patch hit and we felt like we went back 4-5 weeks in time.

This might be needed, but it is demoralizing all the same.

I think ZOS themselves have NO IDEA whatsoever of what DPS ceiling they want.

They should have an internal goal, something like "The max DPS a player can hit in a trial dummy should be 75k". And then, instead of letting players hit 110k and then nerfing, they should always, with every patch and set, make sure that ceiling is not broken.

Yeah, updates should not set people back. Balance is important, but so is progression, and these buffs/nerfs ruin any sense of progression.
They should introduce new goals and update older content instead of doing this. Otherwise they're just wasting players time without offering anything new or interesting.

Slimebrow · September 2019

What you moaning about. I though level 1 was endgame. I didn't think they would actually complete building their game.

Jodynn · September 2019

I got over the changes in U23 although AOE dots were fine where they were damage wise, although the change for unstable was welcome, the ST DoTs were too powerful and overshadowing, but a 50% nerf is stupid and makes them useless again.

U24 : My rotation is too easy now, and it's boring, and there is little variance, and someone slamming their head against their keyboard could get close to the same. That will be the final nail in the coffin.

People can't complain about power creep without looking at the power creep of the trials and dungeons as well, if you are going to nerf one you have to nerf the other, just equalize it but this is just lazy, horrendous combat design.

Slimebrow · September 2019

The game didn't have any decent/functional combat to begin with.

CipherNine · September 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

slofwnd wrote: »

General direction, or better to say lack of direction where combat is going during Scalebreaker and Dragonhold destroyed end-game pve population.
It's increasingly hard to find trial groups and guolds lately due to the fact that players just left the game and do not want to play anymore.
Scalebreaker healer and geiund dots nerfs were padded by single target dot buffs, so we were able to keep up the dps in trial groups. Once 5.2 patch notes were released I can't fill a trial roster in the last active trial guild I had.
Is that what developers want the game to be? Drive away players who were loyal to the game for years?

I honestly don't care if the salty veterans outright leave the game. Some of them are really nice but most?

They're all like grumpy old farts that have a problem with everything, all cynical doomsayers that refuse to adjust and man up to the changes. All that while also being hypocrites for they're the ones I heard the most calling for new refreshing changes to keep the game interesting.

Now they all cry and try to treathen ZOS that they'll leave just because they won't be able to hit ridiculous DPS numbers anymore that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Let them go, they will be replaced by new players eventually.

I've been around for many years myself and I love the changes cause it forces me to switch up, experiment, find something new and re-learn the game that was already getting boring. If I can do it why not them?

people like you really *** me off. the "salty veterans" are not the problem its people like you. with that dumb flawed logic you have.

I absolutely HATE PvP. but guess what? I wouldn't want them getting rid of it or have the PvP players quitting the game. You know why? because that is less players here to support the game, less players here to support ZOS to keep it going. Even though its not a aspect of the game I enjoy. It's a part of the revenue stream ZOS gets therefore more resources for aspects of the game I enjoy to play.

So when people like you are always saying "leave the game then. who cares no one will miss you" well you are flat out stupid for thinking that. PvPer's need us and PvEers need them too. We both keep the game going for both sides

NBrookus · September 2019

I strongly feel that about 90% of the anger is the combat yoyo. Does anyone buy the "our standards can change" excuse when we are talking about numbers like 60%? A 60% nerf 3 months after a huge buff isn't a changing standard, it's throwing numbers up against a wall to see if they stick. Especially when the PTS feedback for U23 was very clear the dot buff was a mistake.

If this were a beta developing combat from scratch, or if we were getting paid to field test scenarios, it would be a different story. We are paying Zenimax to produce a playable, enjoyable game. A non-stop yoyo of nerfs/buffs isn't enjoyable for anyone, PVE, PVP, hardcore, or casual.

Rehdaun · September 2019

NBrookus wrote: »

I strongly feel that about 90% of the anger is the combat yoyo. Does anyone buy the "our standards can change" excuse when we are talking about numbers like 60%? A 60% nerf 3 months after a huge buff isn't a changing standard, it's throwing numbers up against a wall to see if they stick. Especially when the PTS feedback for U23 was very clear the dot buff was a mistake.

If this were a beta developing combat from scratch, or if we were getting paid to field test scenarios, it would be a different story. We are paying Zenimax to produce a playable, enjoyable game. A non-stop yoyo of nerfs/buffs isn't enjoyable for anyone, PVE, PVP, hardcore, or casual.

Very well said!!!!

colossalvoids · September 2019

Something is really wrong when people are not looking forward to the next patches but wonder if they just want to f with their playerbase even more.
People want to have fun in both pve and pvp, meanwhile the only fun you can get are communities like guilds and ingame friends it's not enough, people are seriously just fleeing and everybody can see that.

The thing is not in just reducing damage, it's fine if done in correct way, but it's 360 every patch and people are burning out with adapting while having real lives or playstyles they developed through years being destroyed. Classes stripped out of identity and feeling like reskins while they talking about reinforcing it.

And after looking at some changes like ulti cast times, netch while having sets like steadfast you can clearly see how serious they take all the other ''tweaks''.

Edit: meanwhile we're not playing f2p game in some alpha state, all this with dlc's priced almost as solid triple A titles.

SilverPaws · September 2019

p00tx wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

When a game feels more exhausting than fun, when people dread patch notes instead of looking forward to them, you know it's time to get a new combat team.

This 100%.

When a key member of your combat team publicly admits that all they've done in the game is play some BGs, you have to know they're not going to have the first clue how to properly balance the game. Almost every single one of these changes reeks of a small-scale PvPer's perspective (I know this because it's where I spent most of my gaming time). There was ZERO consideration for how these changes would negatively impact the PvE side of the game. The last group was just as bad, but on the opposite side of that. Zero love for PvP left us floundering and without developer support.

Zos needs to stop bringing in niche players who only know about one aspect of the game, and bring in people who actually love and play the game, and who actually play more than one, small, niche aspect of it.

To those of you who keep saying "good riddance" to the end game community, shame on you. Seriously. You don't throw members of your greater community under the bus just because you aren't personally being affected by negative changes. You stand up with them and act like a decent human being. I know many of you are roleplayers and vanilla gamers, but if Zos stood up one day and said "hey, we're going to massively f*%k with the lore and swap everything around. Almalexia will become a half mortal, half Maormer, druid cat-priestess from Narnia" or whatever would make you guys freak out, I'd absolutely stand with you guys and shout them down for being so blindly stupid. I'd never say "I don't care. I can go on with my game with these changes, so why can't you? Just adjust or get going". We're not even really playing the same game (so why would your ability to adjust set a bench mark for acceptability?), but we're still in this together, so quit being a bunch of turds and help us out.

What are you talking about ??? This hurts pvp a lot as well and definitely the changes are not done from small-scale perspective lmao.

Zatox · September 2019

Not a big deal.
"You can cut down our pack, but more will follow"

starkerealm · September 2019

Drako_Ei wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

It’s almost as if the “endgame” “community” hasn’t yet figured out how to engage these very challenging endgame encounters the way the devs actually designed/intended them and instead obsessively focus on attaining and then “requiring” absurdly high DPS numbers that sidestep that design/intention.

I’m reminded of how, for instance, vMOL HM was beaten way back in the day when 30k DPS was considered godly...but now the “endgame” “community” insists you “can’t” beat that HM with less than 50k (or whatever ridiculously inflated number gets pulled out of someone’s nether regions this week).

...when since the trial was released, nothing has actually changed.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Good luck doing godslayer with 30k dps

Didn't know you earned Godslayer in vMoL... oh, wait, that's right, it's because you don't.

If you're trying to earn Godslayer in vMoL, that might be why you're having such a hard time getting it.

Jaraal · September 2019

colossalvoids wrote: »

The thing is not in just reducing damage, it's fine if done in correct way, but it's 360 every patch and people are burning out with adapting while having real lives or playstyles they developed through years being destroyed. Classes stripped out of identity and feeling like reskins while they talking about reinforcing it.

Don't forget how they butchered racials as well, removing core values that races have had for over 20 years in TES world. And they couldn't even see far enough ahead that that would make a lot of the NPC and quest dialogue look stupid and out of place, or that people who were attracted to the game in the first place because they wanted to play stealthy elves would have years of character tuning destroyed with the release of a single patch.

One could say a mistake or two were made along the way, but a clear and persistent pattern of incompetence says otherwise.

p00tx · September 2019

SilverPaws wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

When a game feels more exhausting than fun, when people dread patch notes instead of looking forward to them, you know it's time to get a new combat team.

This 100%.

When a key member of your combat team publicly admits that all they've done in the game is play some BGs, you have to know they're not going to have the first clue how to properly balance the game. Almost every single one of these changes reeks of a small-scale PvPer's perspective (I know this because it's where I spent most of my gaming time). There was ZERO consideration for how these changes would negatively impact the PvE side of the game. The last group was just as bad, but on the opposite side of that. Zero love for PvP left us floundering and without developer support.

Zos needs to stop bringing in niche players who only know about one aspect of the game, and bring in people who actually love and play the game, and who actually play more than one, small, niche aspect of it.

To those of you who keep saying "good riddance" to the end game community, shame on you. Seriously. You don't throw members of your greater community under the bus just because you aren't personally being affected by negative changes. You stand up with them and act like a decent human being. I know many of you are roleplayers and vanilla gamers, but if Zos stood up one day and said "hey, we're going to massively f*%k with the lore and swap everything around. Almalexia will become a half mortal, half Maormer, druid cat-priestess from Narnia" or whatever would make you guys freak out, I'd absolutely stand with you guys and shout them down for being so blindly stupid. I'd never say "I don't care. I can go on with my game with these changes, so why can't you? Just adjust or get going". We're not even really playing the same game (so why would your ability to adjust set a bench mark for acceptability?), but we're still in this together, so quit being a bunch of turds and help us out.

What are you talking about ??? This hurts pvp a lot as well and definitely the changes are not done from small-scale perspective lmao.

Small scalers were freaking out about the dot meta in PvP. The single target dots are back to being useless again, like they wanted. Onslaught is still overpowered and untouched. Magplars are back to being irrelevant again, unless they can figure out a way to rack up enough burst dmg to make the changes to Purifying Light useful. Magcros are back to being irrelevant. Stam still looks good, if a little subdued. Sorcs are still...sorcs. If anything, this could be good for the health of PvP because with less burst potential, people can go back to playing like real PvPers and stop trying to play World of Tanks with swords and staffs. Maybe they'll let go of their heavy armor crutches and learn how to actually fight.

Yes, certain abilities got a bit crushed, but overall, it's what needed to happen.

Rungar · September 2019

Epicasballs wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

Perhaps that's the goal. It actually makes sense because trials guilds folk are extremely resistant and vocal to any changes that challenges the exclusivity. Perhaps its not worth it anymore for zos.

This game would of been so much better without trials and im not knocking those that like them. Im just old school daoc.

Wait...

An MMO with no group content... go back to skyrim then. What's the point of an MMO with no group content?

Even dungeons that get released have had there rewards removed. I dont now anyone who has done speed/no death/hm since Moonhunter because the rewards are gone in newly released dungeons.

Now you want them to remove trials... what would be left? Once you clear quests you just play something else. MMOs are about community and working together towards a goal. Sadly the rewards for doing such are being stripped from the game. That new skin in the crown store should been earned in game. ZOS is selling their game short. Selling us short.

Earning skins and personalities from trials and dungeons gives a sense of accomplishment. It also forms bonds among players. You need others to help you earn those things strengthening community ties. You want to end that?... sadly dungeons have already lost these rewards. All we have left are trials.

daoc didnt have any trials and it was an awesome game UNTIL they added trials and then it tanked hard. Saddest part is that the devs who made this game also made that one and didn't learn from it. Trials and pvp dont mix. one will suffer the other.

TheGreatBlackBear · September 2019

After this update endgame will just be logging on to the forums and raging. It probably already is tbh

Sanguinor2 · September 2019

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

After this update endgame will just be logging on to the forums and raging. It probably already is tbh

Endgame still Needs to get Achievements done Prior to the patch hitting tho^^

CipherNine · September 2019

Rungar wrote: »

Epicasballs wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

Perhaps that's the goal. It actually makes sense because trials guilds folk are extremely resistant and vocal to any changes that challenges the exclusivity. Perhaps its not worth it anymore for zos.

This game would of been so much better without trials and im not knocking those that like them. Im just old school daoc.

Wait...

An MMO with no group content... go back to skyrim then. What's the point of an MMO with no group content?

Even dungeons that get released have had there rewards removed. I dont now anyone who has done speed/no death/hm since Moonhunter because the rewards are gone in newly released dungeons.

Now you want them to remove trials... what would be left? Once you clear quests you just play something else. MMOs are about community and working together towards a goal. Sadly the rewards for doing such are being stripped from the game. That new skin in the crown store should been earned in game. ZOS is selling their game short. Selling us short.

Earning skins and personalities from trials and dungeons gives a sense of accomplishment. It also forms bonds among players. You need others to help you earn those things strengthening community ties. You want to end that?... sadly dungeons have already lost these rewards. All we have left are trials.

daoc didnt have any trials and it was an awesome game UNTIL they added trials and then it tanked hard. Saddest part is that the devs who made this game also made that one and didn't learn from it. Trials and pvp dont mix. one will suffer the other.

lol yeah okay, lets just ignore all the other mmo's that have group content along with pvp that are very successful..but those games separate pvp and pve, they are balanced separately.

LadyNalcarya · September 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

Drako_Ei wrote: »

mikemacon wrote: »

It’s almost as if the “endgame” “community” hasn’t yet figured out how to engage these very challenging endgame encounters the way the devs actually designed/intended them and instead obsessively focus on attaining and then “requiring” absurdly high DPS numbers that sidestep that design/intention.

I’m reminded of how, for instance, vMOL HM was beaten way back in the day when 30k DPS was considered godly...but now the “endgame” “community” insists you “can’t” beat that HM with less than 50k (or whatever ridiculously inflated number gets pulled out of someone’s nether regions this week).

...when since the trial was released, nothing has actually changed.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Good luck doing godslayer with 30k dps

Didn't know you earned Godslayer in vMoL... oh, wait, that's right, it's because you don't.

If you're trying to earn Godslayer in vMoL, that might be why you're having such a hard time getting it.

Why do people keep bringing up vMoL and Craglorn trials? It doesn't prove anything, it's old content. In many other mmos old content often becomes obsolete. vMoL and Craglorn are not completely useless at least.
Can we talk about more relevant stuff like vCR and vSS?

BlueRaven · September 2019

p00tx wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

When a game feels more exhausting than fun, when people dread patch notes instead of looking forward to them, you know it's time to get a new combat team.

This 100%.

When a key member of your combat team publicly admits that all they've done in the game is play some BGs, you have to know they're not going to have the first clue how to properly balance the game. Almost every single one of these changes reeks of a small-scale PvPer's perspective (I know this because it's where I spent most of my gaming time). There was ZERO consideration for how these changes would negatively impact the PvE side of the game. The last group was just as bad, but on the opposite side of that. Zero love for PvP left us floundering and without developer support.

Zos needs to stop bringing in niche players who only know about one aspect of the game, and bring in people who actually love and play the game, and who actually play more than one, small, niche aspect of it.

To those of you who keep saying "good riddance" to the end game community, shame on you. Seriously. You don't throw members of your greater community under the bus just because you aren't personally being affected by negative changes. You stand up with them and act like a decent human being. I know many of you are roleplayers and vanilla gamers, but if Zos stood up one day and said "hey, we're going to massively f*%k with the lore and swap everything around. Almalexia will become a half mortal, half Maormer, druid cat-priestess from Narnia" or whatever would make you guys freak out, I'd absolutely stand with you guys and shout them down for being so blindly stupid. I'd never say "I don't care. I can go on with my game with these changes, so why can't you? Just adjust or get going". We're not even really playing the same game (so why would your ability to adjust set a bench mark for acceptability?), but we're still in this together, so quit being a bunch of turds and help us out.

They already have messed up the lore. Did you see the race changes they just passed? What they did to wood elves and other races?