HaruKamui wrote: »

To be fair PVE has become too easy nowadays, right?

Old content, sure. But with power creep comes content creep. Each new dungeon and trial has higher and higher DPS requirements. Yes, the high DPS of 2019 has made 2016 content easy. But you kinda need it for the 2019 content...

HaruKamui wrote: »

To be fair PVE has become too easy nowadays, right?

Eye of the beholder, for you, too easy, okay. For some others, too. But not for everyone, not everyone playing the game finds everything easy that's often forum-stated to be easy.

code65536 wrote: »

Old content, sure. But with power creep comes content creep. Each new dungeon and trial has higher and higher DPS requirements. Yes, the high DPS of 2019 has made 2016 content easy. But you kinda need it for the 2019 content...

Well, I've not done any of the newer DLC dungeons, so I can't say. Once, I tried one of the recently released dungeons about a year ago, that was a real pain compared to the original dungeons, for sure. The originals can be a breeze with all four pulling their weight, this is true.

Brian Wheeler said this, from here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492415/update-24-combat-preview/p1

"In Update 24, we will be pulling back on the power of Damage over Time abilities, but not Heal over Time abilities. This will reign in some of the damage we’re seeing in PVP, but should not inhibit the completion of trials, dungeons, and arenas."

What odds it could, in fact, be quite inhibiting regarding especially the newer dungeons and trials?

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Adjusting stuff is fine, but drops of 50% and 63%? are they intentionally making people quit the game? PvE will be so much harder now with half the effective dps. Trials and DLC dungeons will return to be for elites only.

Well I just decided to come back to ESO after months of quitting, seems like I'll be leaving again. Shame I was actually starting to get hooked again.

My partner and i who have been playing since launch, have had enough. He was upset today, this was the final straw for him.
We actually started googling for new games to try. Eso has been our second home for 5 yrs plus. It's so sad to see this level of brutality and savagery aimed at our beloved characters. What have we done to deserve this callous treatment.
Yes i take it personally because I have supported this game as have other paying customers and we get handed a brand new rubbish product which we did not sign up nor pay for. Hate this patch. You broke our eso zos.

For zos this will will meanthousands of dollars lost from our 2 accounts.For us it means money we happily invested money into eso because we loved the product but it is turning into a different entity one we will no longer recognise and which we refuse to support.
We are both looking for a fantasy rpgmmo that we can enjoy together but if we cant find anythingbwe like then we'll have to try a different genre sadly. If anyone reading this have any suggestions please let me know. Thanks in advance.

The gorgeous housing sadly does not make up for the constant ongoing frustrations of the nerf fest.

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

What is the difference in damage between single target direct damage abilities and DoTs on PTS right now? Because if DoTs are not at lest 1.5x more powerfull than single target direct damage abilities it may be better to slot only enhancement buffs from now on and use primarily only one skill for damage.

1.25x.

CipherNine wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

To be fair PVE has become too easy nowadays, right?

Eye of the beholder, for you, too easy, okay. For some others, too. But not for everyone, not everyone playing the game finds everything easy that's often forum-stated to be easy.

code65536 wrote: »

Old content, sure. But with power creep comes content creep. Each new dungeon and trial has higher and higher DPS requirements. Yes, the high DPS of 2019 has made 2016 content easy. But you kinda need it for the 2019 content...

Well, I've not done any of the newer DLC dungeons, so I can't say. Once, I tried one of the recently released dungeons about a year ago, that was a real pain compared to the original dungeons, for sure. The originals can be a breeze with all four pulling their weight, this is true.

Brian Wheeler said this, from here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492415/update-24-combat-preview/p1

"In Update 24, we will be pulling back on the power of Damage over Time abilities, but not Heal over Time abilities. This will reign in some of the damage we’re seeing in PVP, but should not inhibit the completion of trials, dungeons, and arenas."

What odds it could, in fact, be quite inhibiting regarding especially the newer dungeons and trials?

That right there proves that Brian Wheeler doesn't give a damn about PvE. All he cares about is PvP and whatever happens in PvE, who cares they will just have to deal with it.

that statement shouldn't be "should not inhibit the completion of trials, dungeons and arenas"

it should be "WILL NOT inhibit the completion of trials, dungeons, and arenas"
As the combat lead of this game. He should be 100% sure. there should be no doubt.

A design lead *must* consider both modes, no-one should be the lead if they are so anti-one mode or the other. To say nothing of which, balancing a game around only PvP is terrifically unfair to *most* of the playerbase, no?

I've heard people talk about how empty Cyrodiil is...

LiquidPony wrote: »

Hey, it's OK, the 3 top groups in the game got God Slayer.

No one else ever will LOL!

They will have to nerf the time limit for god slayer... its just not worth to keep practicing it right now

HaruKamui wrote: »

To be fair PVE has become too easy nowadays, right?

Usually people mean overland PvE content when they complain about the lacking difficulty in content. Group content is fine difficulty-wise.

And overland, where you just need to spam light attacks, won't be affected at all by these nerfs. It will still be as easy as ever.

sentientomega wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

PvE was as hard as it should be, the trials were already very elite and the dlc dungeons were hard till people got the hang of mechanics which is what it should be like.

The game was faceroll for the elite top 5% not for the whole playerbase, the other 95% should have to suffer for that

For the much of the player base that have a decently leveled character, the vast majority of PvE content is a faceroll. Normal difficulty dungeons—even DLC ones—are a faceroll. Non-DLC veteran dungeons are mostly a faceroll. Public dungeons are a faceroll that any competent person can solo with their eyes closed (which sort of goes against the concept of what public dungeons are supposed to be). Delves and dolmens are absurdly easy. There’s really only a very small sliver of the PvE content in this game right now that has any difficulty whatsoever. And, for me at least, that makes me not even want to bother doing much of the PvE content for the first time—because I don’t really find it super fun to faceroll everything with no difficulty whatsoever. If you can destroy everything in a second without really needing to understand any mechanics or even have a remotely well made character, then there’s no sense of progression or achievement. IMO, the PvE content should be structured in a way that you actually have a lot of content (including solo content) that you need to get better at the game and get a good build in order to complete. Otherwise it becomes boring fast.

No thanks, please try to remember that no single player has a monopoly on interpreting game difficulty. I'd much rather be inclusive of players, not exclusive toward them. Last time I looked, in fact, this game's title wasn't Dark Souls.

I tend to agree with both... partially ofc .. Thing is, you would expect that certain dungeons or delves to pose some challenge, let's say after you leave your starting zone. Right now, even at lower level if you know your class, the content is very easy, and does not make you try to find counters or consider your stats, abilities, gear, etc. I am talking about normal dif. content.

If you have a 810cp char, you don't need to know how to play at all, it is just faceroll (again on normal). The veteran content starts to pose some challenge, but even if you are a noob, if you get in an OK-ish group, you will be carried by the rest. You will not feel it is hard, unless you do vMA and are still learning. Normal trials are also moderately easy, and people do not need to focus much, most stuff is tank and spank, that is why you can play a lot and still learn very little about your class or how to play the game.

I dislike comparing to WoW (I played a lot many years ago), but one thing that was good about old WoW (vanilla and BC) was that difficulty wasn't so easy, and you had to make the best of your abilities or resources. It taught you how to play the hard way. In 2019, I don't enjoy this philosophy, but I still feel the need of a bit more (not to much like Dark Souls of vMA) challenge when doing content. I think this extra bit of challenge helps to create a more passionate and competent player base, and will keep things interesting. I remember world bosses in WoW that could wipe out a capital city, they took many many players to kill, the fights were memorable for many years.

One more example... if during a vet dungeon there is a wipe at one boss, almost every time someone will leave right away. Same happened during the IC event in groups going for Molag Bal. At the first wipe half of the group just left. This is because most players are used to get things very easy, they are not used to work a bit for their rewards. This is how the current CP system spoiled most of the player base. This is so hard to find a PUG or to finish anything meaningful with a PUG. People expect to be carried because most the content (with just a few exceptions) is easy.

Aiphaton wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

To be fair PVE has become too easy nowadays, right?

Yeah thats why so many People clear vet Trials I guess? How many godslayers do we have again? 36 in the whole world?

those guilds are getting godslayer with almost 5 minutes to spare. I am sure you will be fine.

Hodor was 27:08 and MC was 27:11. Unchained Animals was like 26:30. About 3 minutes to spare, not 5.

The fact remains that literally only 3 groups have the title despite many, many other groups relentlessly progressing that content for 5 months or whatever now.

I honestly doubt God Slayer is achievable with the state of the game in 5.2.0. Maybe MC/Hodor/UA will be able to push it, but the groups who are already in that progression struggle are going to take a giant step backwards (and in many cases, that giant step will probably just be to another game entirely).

How are the 3 dd´s supposed to kill the "Mage" in VSS-Hardmode ?
I mean Dots have no Dmg and spamming only Snipe uff

kind_hero wrote: »

sentientomega wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

PvE was as hard as it should be, the trials were already very elite and the dlc dungeons were hard till people got the hang of mechanics which is what it should be like.

The game was faceroll for the elite top 5% not for the whole playerbase, the other 95% should have to suffer for that

For the much of the player base that have a decently leveled character, the vast majority of PvE content is a faceroll. Normal difficulty dungeons—even DLC ones—are a faceroll. Non-DLC veteran dungeons are mostly a faceroll. Public dungeons are a faceroll that any competent person can solo with their eyes closed (which sort of goes against the concept of what public dungeons are supposed to be). Delves and dolmens are absurdly easy. There’s really only a very small sliver of the PvE content in this game right now that has any difficulty whatsoever. And, for me at least, that makes me not even want to bother doing much of the PvE content for the first time—because I don’t really find it super fun to faceroll everything with no difficulty whatsoever. If you can destroy everything in a second without really needing to understand any mechanics or even have a remotely well made character, then there’s no sense of progression or achievement. IMO, the PvE content should be structured in a way that you actually have a lot of content (including solo content) that you need to get better at the game and get a good build in order to complete. Otherwise it becomes boring fast.

No thanks, please try to remember that no single player has a monopoly on interpreting game difficulty. I'd much rather be inclusive of players, not exclusive toward them. Last time I looked, in fact, this game's title wasn't Dark Souls.

I tend to agree with both... partially ofc .. Thing is, you would expect that certain dungeons or delves to pose some challenge, let's say after you leave your starting zone. Right now, even at lower level if you know your class, the content is very easy, and does not make you try to find counters or consider your stats, abilities, gear, etc. I am talking about normal dif. content.

If you have a 810cp char, you don't need to know how to play at all, it is just faceroll (again on normal). The veteran content starts to pose some challenge, but even if you are a noob, if you get in an OK-ish group, you will be carried by the rest. You will not feel it is hard, unless you do vMA and are still learning. Normal trials are also moderately easy, and people do not need to focus much, most stuff is tank and spank, that is why you can play a lot and still learn very little about your class or how to play the game.

I dislike comparing to WoW (I played a lot many years ago), but one thing that was good about old WoW (vanilla and BC) was that difficulty wasn't so easy, and you had to make the best of your abilities or resources. It taught you how to play the hard way. In 2019, I don't enjoy this philosophy, but I still feel the need of a bit more (not to much like Dark Souls of vMA) challenge when doing content. I think this extra bit of challenge helps to create a more passionate and competent player base, and will keep things interesting. I remember world bosses in WoW that could wipe out a capital city, they took many many players to kill, the fights were memorable for many years.

One more example... if during a vet dungeon there is a wipe at one boss, almost every time someone will leave right away. Same happened during the IC event in groups going for Molag Bal. At the first wipe half of the group just left. This is because most players are used to get things very easy, they are not used to work a bit for their rewards. This is how the current CP system spoiled most of the player base. This is so hard to find a PUG or to finish anything meaningful with a PUG. People expect to be carried because most the content (with just a few exceptions) is easy.

It's still a matter of opinion, though. I am certainly loathe to have top-drawer gamers dictating the difficulty of *all* content, and casuals like me squeezed out as a result. Inclusive, not exclusive. I, for one, do not want a return to the bad old days. For sure, seeing you and those espousing similar views write, your dream is certainly my nightmare, and probably vice versa. There should be options, extra difficulty options, so that the people who don't want it easy can get the challenge and extra learning experience they want. Like my player-oriented difficulty sliders, which would be available outside of PvP areas. Then people like me would be safe, and others could relive those DAoC days.

Above all, do not force challenge. If I wanted a challenge, I would *not* be seeking it in a game. I will endeavour to live with the level of challenge that exists in a game, though, like the Division, For Honour (I only PvE), but I will always kick up a stink over any efforts to attract the challenge-hungry over the casual. You people, please stop attacking us, please stop judging our playstyles and criticising us for not wanting to play the way you lot do. You do you, let us do us.

luizpaulom17 wrote: »

What U lads are talking about... U can do VSS with 35k dps... only need to play a bit safe and have good tanks... Godslayer will be harder indeed, much harder and they should therefore increase the speedrun time... but the Trial itself is easy
I like it that old content will be fun again... I wish they would increase bosses HP and all but they are lazy so dps lost it is then!

Hardmode is literally unclearable with 35k dps, like an actual 0% Chance that you will ever finish last boss even if you do everything flawlessly 10000 times, so you might want to educate yourself on that.