Close please

Avrael · September 2019

Ive read about this in a lot of threads already, and ofc i myself am using animation canceling in game, because everyone does it, or at least everyone should do it, you have to if you want to do more dps for basically free, in PvE and especially in PvP.

But the question still remains, should it be in the game or be removed?
Is it really an intendet mechanic, or a bug/glitch that became normal over 5 years, or even too useful to the game to remove?

I personally am convinced, that it wasnt an intentional thing they developed for the game, it probably just came to be because it was possible, and the devs at release either didnt realize it was a thing, or didnt think it was a big deal.

And just let me say, im NOT AGAINST animation canceling, if they would patch and update the game around it, no problem. But they obviously dont, they treat everything, especially abilitys, in the game like animation canceling doesnt exist. They 100% know by now that its a thing, but they probably dont expect most people to use it, or even know about it. Everyone that played the game for more then 2 weeks knows about it.

My way of thinking is, if canceling wouldnt be a thing, it would probably be easier for the devs to balance the game. Thats obviously a BIG problem for them, still, since 5 years. Theyre making changed to the entire combat system that some other developers dont even need to do in betas, because they know where their game is going. Esos devs still dont know that, it shows with every patch. All 3 months we have to learn the entire game from the beginning, builds are completley destroyed, sets are worthless, many players become frustrated and leave. EVERY patch!

What im trying to say is, to my knowledge (which could be wrong) they never account for animation canceling, in any change they ever made, but they should. Either work with the animation canceling, or remove it, but you cant just let it be its own thing and dont do anything for or against it. Its one of the only things in combat that stays the same in every patch, because it doesnt get touched, and its not polished at all. Its not easy to use yet so detremental to the game atm. Also a question for everyone, would you think combat would be more fluid with or without canceling?

So what are your thoughts? Should the devs embrace it and make changes around it, that its more fluid, less dependent on ping and fps, and more balanced between stamina and magicka builds (in stamina builds, weaving is much faster, because melee light and heavy attacks come out faster then on staves, and also are more easily and reliable canceled)?
Or should they remove it completley, so that they REALLY can play around with animation speeds and cast times, maybe make skills generally faster, and that every player, especially new ones, have the same foundation of combat?
Ofc, this would remove a big part of "Skill" required to do good in the game... BUT, this game isnt based around skill, so im really unsure if that would be a bad or a good thing.

Again, i personally am not really for or against it. Its just a thing right now thats in the game but doesnt get much attention from the devs. Please let me know your positive or negative thoughts about it.

VaranisArano · September 2019

Game mechanic.

Block, barswap, and bash cancelling are all integral parts of combat fluidity so we aren't locked into skills for the full animation.

Light Attack Weaving is now explicitly taught in the Level Up Advisor tips and supported by a number of sets. ZOS buffed it in Summerset and now its a substantial portion of DPS.

Heavy Attack Weaving have been necessary since the Morrowind patch when ZOS nerfed all other sustain.

So whatever we think ZOS ought to do, animation cancelling is undoubtedly intended and encouraged.

mairwen85 · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

Avrael wrote: »

Ive read about this in a lot of threads already,

You obviously haven't read enough or you'd know why this topic doesn't warrant yet another poll. Literally all there is to say has been said.

Also, your poll doesn't address the question you pose with your thread title.

I vote:

VaranisArano wrote: »

Game mechanic.

Avrael · September 2019

mairwen85 wrote: »

Avrael wrote: »

Ive read about this in a lot of threads already,

You obviously haven't read enough or you'd know why this topic doesn't warrant yet another poll. Literally all there is to say has been said.

Also, your poll doesn't address the question you pose with your thread title.

Hmm, seems like i havent...

MrGarlic · September 2019

Other

Can it even be removed? Is it so far embedded in the game engine that it would require a serious rewrite? Would it have a detrimental affect on game play?

I don't know.

Casterial · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

At this point its a feature. Why? Because its apart of the skill cap in this game. We have skill floors, but this is one of the ways to hit the cap.

It can be bad, it can be good. But it works and is a good feeling. Imagine how slow this game would be if we had to wait for these long ass animations to play.

SydneyGrey · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

The developers have already said that it's not an exploit.

Jeremy · September 2019

Other

Avrael wrote: »

Ive read about this in a lot of threads already, and ofc i myself am using animation canceling in game, because everyone does it, or at least everyone should do it, you have to if you want to do more dps for basically free, in PvE and especially in PvP.

But the question still remains, should it be in the game or be removed?
Is it really an intendet mechanic, or a bug/glitch that became normal over 5 years, or even too useful to the game to remove?

I personally am convinced, that it wasnt an intentional thing they developed for the game, it probably just came to be because it was possible, and the devs at release either didnt realize it was a thing, or didnt think it was a big deal.

And just let me say, im NOT AGAINST animation canceling, if they would patch and update the game around it, no problem. But they obviously dont, they treat everything, especially abilitys, in the game like animation canceling doesnt exist. They 100% know by now that its a thing, but they probably dont expect most people to use it, or even know about it. Everyone that played the game for more then 2 weeks knows about it.

My way of thinking is, if canceling wouldnt be a thing, it would probably be easier for the devs to balance the game. Thats obviously a BIG problem for them, still, since 5 years. Theyre making changed to the entire combat system that some other developers dont even need to do in betas, because they know where their game is going. Esos devs still dont know that, it shows with every patch. All 3 months we have to learn the entire game from the beginning, builds are completley destroyed, sets are worthless, many players become frustrated and leave. EVERY patch!

What im trying to say is, to my knowledge (which could be wrong) they never account for animation canceling, in any change they ever made, but they should. Either work with the animation canceling, or remove it, but you cant just let it be its own thing and dont do anything for or against it. Its one of the only things in combat that stays the same in every patch, because it doesnt get touched, and its not polished at all. Its not easy to use yet so detremental to the game atm. Also a question for everyone, would you think combat would be more fluid with or without canceling?

So what are your thoughts? Should the devs embrace it and make changes around it, that its more fluid, less dependent on ping and fps, and more balanced between stamina and magicka builds (in stamina builds, weaving is much faster, because melee light and heavy attacks come out faster then on staves, and also are more easily and reliable canceled)?
Or should they remove it completley, so that they REALLY can play around with animation speeds and cast times, maybe make skills generally faster, and that every player, especially new ones, have the same foundation of combat?
Ofc, this would remove a big part of "Skill" required to do good in the game... BUT, this game isnt based around skill, so im really unsure if that would be a bad or a good thing.

Again, i personally am not really for or against it. Its just a thing right now thats in the game but doesnt get much attention from the devs. Please let me know your positive or negative thoughts about it.

Animation canceling is necessary if you are going to have reactive blocking and dodging. So I believe that part was intended. The part where people use it to intentionally skip combat animations to increase their damage.... probably not so much.

Weaving specifically was intended and adds to the gameplay. So I like that aspect of the game's combat. It's hard to know what people mean when they say "animation canceling" because it seems everyone has their own definition of it.

Avrael · September 2019

Ye, they would have to make animations faster and more fluid then... just removing it without changing the game wouldnt be an option.

Also, i dont know if they could even remove it, just a thought here. And i didnt know so far that they specifically said its not an exploit, now i learned something.

But even if this is the 500st thread about this topic, i cant find a lot atm under all the PTS-Spam atm, have to dig deeper i guess. Also more threads about a topic arent a bad thing in my eyes. As you can see on my example, not everyone finds every thread about a topic even if there are a lot already.
That said, i still wouldnt have made this thread if i found enough other threads already beforehand, i dont want to just spam the forum out of malice, believe me or not.

Ackwalan · September 2019

It went from bug to unintended mechanic to feature.

starkerealm · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

SydneyGrey wrote: »

The developers have already said that it's not an exploit.

In fairness, it wasn't originally intended. There was a huge discussion back in the day on the subject, that set the direction for the game.

mairwen85 · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

Avrael wrote: »

Ye, they would have to make animations faster and more fluid then... just removing it without changing the game wouldnt be an option.

Also, i dont know if they could even remove it, just a thought here. And i didnt know so far that they specifically said its not an exploit, now i learned something.

But even if this is the 500st thread about this topic, i cant find a lot atm under all the PTS-Spam atm, have to dig deeper i guess. Also more threads about a topic arent a bad thing in my eyes. As you can see on my example, not everyone finds every thread about a topic even if there are a lot already.
That said, i still wouldnt have made this thread if i found enough other threads already beforehand, i dont want to just spam the forum out of malice, believe me or not.

Here you go:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/search?Search=Animation+cancel

Kel · September 2019

Keep animation canceling but change/update some things about it

I'm fine with animation canceling. It does make combat flow and keeps it fast paced. And it keeps a element of skillful play to do it well. I personally like it and get better at it every day.

That said...

It would go miles toward Zos's stated goal to raise the floor and lower the ceiling to do away with it.
Instead of these fantastic drastic dramatic
buff/nerf cycles we all seem to love so much.
Instead of nerfing skills to Oblivion, they could just fix animation canceling...but that ship has long left the harbor.

Nerf/buff cycles forever...

Sylvermynx · September 2019

Other

I don't really have an opinion. I just now got around to sort of figuring out LA weaving and ani canceling, now that I have satellite that's a LOT better than what I had when I first started playing ESO.

I may have an opinion in another year. Time will tell.

Jayroo · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

I dont think it's an exploit more than something they dont mind people doing. For me personally though it would be a good trade off removing animation canceling and nerfing light attacks instead of nerfing every dot/aoe in the game

SipofMaim · September 2019

They can't remove it. Like it or not, this is the game.

Why they've been buffing it for a year is beyond me. Twenty percent of damage from LA weaves is ridiculous, and it'll be higher again next patch.

More clicking = more fun

susmitds · September 2019

Keep animation canceling but change/update some things about it

They have updated things around it. Crushing Weapon spammable requires it to work. They updated cast time spammable skills to properly animation cancel. Skills like Grim Focus and the new sorc Bound Armaments is balanced around it.

Rungar · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

it requires a light attack not an animation cancellled light attack.

i.e it will still work animation cancelled or not.

El_Borracho · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

Its a mechanic. They tell you how to do it during load screens

ZeroXFF · September 2019

Keep animation canceling but change/update some things about it

Keep animation cancelling, just put light attacks on the same cooldown as skills. Everything else is necessary to make the combat feel fluid.

LadyNalcarya · September 2019

Keep animation canceling but change/update some things about it

It's a mechanic, and it's actually not unique to ESO.
However it would be nice if they would update animations so they look smoother and less clunky.

Deathlord92 · September 2019

It’s apart of the game and shows how good you are with skill rotation.

Dusk_Coven · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

The animation cancellation part is like you starting to pull your gun out of the holster, deciding not to draw, but firing off a bullet anyway. If your shot goes anywhere at all it should be into your foot.

MrGarlic wrote: »

Can it even be removed? Is it so far embedded in the game engine that it would require a serious rewrite? Would it have a detrimental affect on game play?

My suspicion is that they can't remove it properly.
If I remember the twitch stream about Update 24, they said that some things were left in-game until they were able to fix it. And I suspect this is one of them. AND if they ever got around to it, it'll be like Mount Speed -- been there too long that there'll be uproar when you try to take it away.
If they ever did admit they couldn't do something properly they'd be laughed off the industry though.

It'd be interesting to see the dev parses and whether they do Light Attack animation cancelling.
If they really wanted Light Attacks woven around everything, they could just code it into all the skills and when you target something you automatically Light Attack it until you use a skill.
If they don't want Light Attacks to output so much damage, for a start they could make it not trigger Glyphs and Poisons.

When bland Light Attacks do more net damage than your skills, I'd say something is wrong with the combat as designed. A basic skill should be what you are left with when you exhaust your reserves.

oddbasket · September 2019

Remove animation canceling

There are no sure things in ESO life, it may go the way of mount stamina anytime.

jcm2606 · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

I do think it needs to be changed, but not by much, so this option is the closest to my opinion. Animation cancelling at its core absolutely was intended, because it's necessary to have an active combat system be responsive and enjoyable. If you want proof of that, look at how Path of Exile had to implement animation cancelling in their own combat system, to have melee playstyles be usable if you didn't build for insane attack speed.

What wasn't intended was the intentional use of it by the players to maximise damage, and this is what I feel needs to be changed. I do think proper use of animation cancelling should give players an advantage over other players, as that's what drives the skill gap, but I don't think the gap should be as large as it is.

I honestly just think they need to revert the light attack buffs they did during Summerset, and it'd be fine. Prior to that, proper weaving gave players a bit of an edge, but there were viable playstyles that didn't include weaving, that dealt a bit less damage while being friendlier towards those players who didn't want to weave. Go back to that, and it'd be fine, IMO.

Aside from that, I'd maybe also rewrite the animation system and reauthor animations to make animation cancelling a little more appealing to the eye. As I've said before, moving over to an IK rigging system for full character animations (the same rigging system used for foot placement with IK feet animations turned on) would make blending between animations much better, as well as making it easier on the animators to do their jobs. A bit of work to move the game over, and the game might get a little slower on low end systems (FPS-wise, not ping-wise, and there are ways to optimise IK rigging systems for lower end systems), but it'd go a long way in a lot of ways.

Red_Feather · September 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Game mechanic.

Block, barswap, and bash cancelling are all integral parts of combat fluidity so we aren't locked into skills for the full animation.

Light Attack Weaving is now explicitly taught in the Level Up Advisor tips and supported by a number of sets. ZOS buffed it in Summerset and now its a substantial portion of DPS.

Heavy Attack Weaving have been necessary since the Morrowind patch when ZOS nerfed all other sustain.

So whatever we think ZOS ought to do, animation cancelling is undoubtedly intended and encouraged.

What is heavy attack weaving. I am trying to find tutorial on it. A video that appeared in google result was 10 minutes of no help at all for heavy attack weaving despite the title claiming it did.

crazywolfpusher · September 2019

Keep animation canceling but change/update some things about it

The only aspect i dont like about animation cancelling is weaving. When your light attacks do 20% of your overall dps... it is over performing and need a NERF

BrianLovesLisa · September 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Game mechanic.

Block, barswap, and bash cancelling are all integral parts of combat fluidity so we aren't locked into skills for the full animation.

Light Attack Weaving is substantial portion of DPS.

Remove it then instead of nerfing skills, if DPS is "so over the top and out of control" Also remove animation cancel for the same reason. Seems like it would fix the Huge out of control DPS issue.

Somewhere · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

Why are we still talking about this? Poll after poll people introduce show that most of us, at least on the forums, are okay with it. ZOS knew about the issue 5 years ago, and chose not to "fix" it because they found it was too difficult to fix while maintaining the gameplay desired.

If the people who worked on the game originally 5 years ago didn't bother changing it, it certainly not going to get changed now, so it's kind of a moot point.

Regardless if it would be healthy for the game, that's a huge change to make 5 years and would be distinctly polarizing. Best to leave it alone. ZOS is doing a great job of making major gameplay changes with skill balancing alone, let alone animation canceling.

Mr_Walker · September 2019

It's a glitch that disadvantages high latency players.

Vhozek · September 2019

Keep animation canceling and dont change it

Vanquish every bit of depth this game has to offer.
Imagine if Melee patched out wavedash.
Oh, they did. It's called "every other Smash game" but somehow Melee still alive.

Some things are better left alone.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Close please

Close please 468 votes