ESO Balance - Stop Bashing - Balance Concepts Explained

GhostofDatthaw · September 2019

RavenSworn wrote: »

While i do agree with your points, sometimes it's hard to see if zos is really listening to the feedback of the players in the pts.

This, however I will generalize it a little more, it's hard to see if they listen to players at all.

As magnb I have defended my class from nerfs for the last few patches. I also calmly and rationally explained why shadow image needed to be fixed (at the time it had been broken for like a year). What happened? I got no responses and nothing but silence from the devs and thier team. Finally after months of silence I start being a little more up front, what happens? They banned my old forum account.

I lost faith at that point

Rungar · September 2019

not buying it. They went full raid mode the last couple of years and it was a disaster. Now they have turned 180 and are going back to pvp mode as per the original design.

i believe its a good move for a game getting ready to go into quasi maintenance as they work on their new game.

Kel · September 2019

Casterial wrote: »

stuartx13 wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Sorry, I just can't take it seriously when one patch a skill needs to be buffed because it was allegedly underperforming, and then needs to be buffed worse than original because it's now allegedly overperforming.

Well, play PTS. Back yourself up on your theories. Help them. The PTS always has like 10 - 20 players, not nearly enough compared to forums.

Ok you are just wrong.How can we keep doing PTS when feedback is just blow off.

I'm saying just do our best, I personally don't see flaming/spamming the forums as a solution.

You'd be wrong.

When Rune Cage was overperfoming, and locking down players with no counter, it was reported on PTS with no outcome. What got the change to happen was the forum.

Conversely, when cast times on shields was going to happen, it wasn't PTS that got the change to go through. What got the change to happen was the forum.

These are two examples. I could point to many more changes the forums caused...Pirate Skeleton, Earthgore...the list is long.
Not even touching on bugs and exploits that make it to live.

Point being the PTS isn't treated as many other games treat PTS. You're literally giving feedback to a brick wall here.
History has shown PTS is a waste of time and complaining on the forum causes real change.
If this was any other game, I'd fully agree with you. This is Zos, however. So, what you call "bashing" I call players learning that to be heard and enact change, they have to speak up on the forum. Players have "adapted" to this behavior because it's been shown to be effective. That's squarely on Zos and how they value PTS feedback.

Edit: Even though I choose to play console, I do test on my PC. I do report and do my part. It's been a sore spot that feedback goes unheard for a long time, especially since it's something I have to do off my native chosen platform.

Reverb · September 2019

Your points are well reasoned and well presented, but do not resonate with me. It’s clear that zeni’s balance strategy is huge sweeping adjustments in short order. We were so optimistic when a new combat team was handed the reins, but they’ve treated the game like a wild pendulum for too long now.

It’s no surprise that the next update is the last straw for many people.

My personal opinion, unless a specific skill is broken, adjustments should be limited to 20% or less from their initial values. Monitor and make incremental tweaks as needed. Stop toying with people.

Numerikuu · September 2019

Casterial wrote: »

stuartx13 wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Sorry, I just can't take it seriously when one patch a skill needs to be buffed because it was allegedly underperforming, and then needs to be buffed worse than original because it's now allegedly overperforming.

Well, play PTS. Back yourself up on your theories. Help them. The PTS always has like 10 - 20 players, not nearly enough compared to forums.

Ok you are just wrong.How can we keep doing PTS when feedback is just blow off.

I'm saying just do our best, I personally don't see flaming/spamming the forums as a solution.

It's amounted to that in the end because pages upon pages upon pages upon pages upon pages of feedback both from testers and reps were ignored or disregarded. I gave up with the PTS because of this. The only reason they did a reverse on cast times for shields was because we flamed and spammed the forums and elsewhere, and pulled our subs and gave negative scores.

When you're constantly ignored and treated like none of your feedback matters, what else is there left to do? You either quit like many of us have, or you flame and spam. Personally I've gone with the former, as have all my friends, my friends friends, and the majority of the people in the guilds I'm in. I no longer recommend this game to anyone that asks and tell them to avoid it like the plague, where once it was the opposite.

VaranisArano · September 2019

lordrichter wrote: »

stuartx13 wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Well, play PTS. Back yourself up on your theories. Help them. The PTS always has like 10 - 20 players, not nearly enough compared to forums.

Ok you are just wrong.How can we keep doing PTS when feedback is just blow off.

Most of the feedback that I read here on the forums is crap. I see a lot of feedback based on "patch notes analysis", not to mention those that just rephrase someone else's "patch notes analysis". It's crap. Plain and simple. ZOS sees it, but there is not a lot for them to act upon. That is why they don't "listen".

As suggested by the OP, people who feel strongly that this is the wrong direction need to get on PTS and show them. That is going to take time. It means more than just a few minutes standing in front of a target dummy. Oh, look, my DPS is lower.

ZOS monitors the players as they play the game, both on Live and PTS. They have said so, repeatedly. If people get on PTS and test out the changes, ZOS can compare what they see on PTS with both Live and what they are expecting from Update 24.

Someone was talking about "back and forth" decisions. That can easily happen if they don't get enough data from PTS and the Live data, after the Update is released, has to be used. After release, the players on Live are still being monitored. Any data that they do not get from PTS, they get from Live.

As I pointed out above, one thing to keep in mind is there are some aspects of the PTS that you can only predict, not actually test.

For example, you can test some PVP changes with duels, maybe BGs, and maybe small group combat in Cyrodiil. We, and therefore the Devs, can't test the impact of changes on zerg v zerg, or raid v zerg types of battles that are common in Cyrodiil due to lack of players on PTS.

Arguably, we see this cause issues for ZOS when they are trying to dial in on the "tank meta" in Cyrodiil or 1vXing. That's another playstyle that doesn't see much testing on PTS due to lack of opponents. We also saw it with Siege damage flip-flopping in the past, and to some extent with certain sets in PVP. We warned them that Sloads was OP, but they can't test it until they see the impact on Live with a whole bunch of players.

PVE changes tend to get tested by groups as they practice the new content. Many aspects of PVP just can't be properly tested due to lack of players. That's why some of the PVP predictions are just that - predictions.

That's a problem for ZOS, too. If they have a vision for combat in Cyrodiil, its a problem that they don't ever get to test how that vision performs until it hits the Live server. If they don't like the impact in Cyrodiil, they won't know about it until the Live Patch.

Saril_Durzam · September 2019

Its very hard to balance skills to the start, because each have synergies, added bonuses either from passives or the skill itself... to be honest, i feel devs are going wrong, they should try to balance classes, not skills. This way we could get more class identity and variety. It´s very hard to balance skills like cloak, for example.

Darkenarlol · September 2019

do they have some general line or strategy?

probably

do playerbase enjoys ZOS' plan milestones?

i can answer only for myself - i don't care anymore

because too many drastic changes in short periods

of time (yep 3 months is like...nothing) leads only to apathy

i've allready lost 4 statics in last year due to people

leaving this turn-everything-by-180-degrees every patch

so...let's hope for good crownstore showcase next month

sindalstar · September 2019

I'm generally more forgiving as a person.
Because the way the game is modeled currently I domt believe there ever can be balance. The "play as you want" model with multiple skill lines that everyone can get, specifically. Too many open variables to juggle. But they cant take that away now. Its literally the selling point of the game in theory.

So I just watch the patches, wait for it to actually get to week 5 after the initial hit lands because alot of changes happen in that time, allow the people who actually are on the ptr to give responses and then when the patch comes out I check which skill I need to slot now to be competitively average or above average. I'm not a award chasing gamer, though I understand many people are.

I like the direction they take with things.
The ideas are usually good in principle . Like hey, atleast the stam sorcs got some more stuff. Wardens got a snazzy permanent vulnerability . Dk have a theoretical stamina spamable now wish is nice for them. Little steps in process.

The actual numbers behind them is usually the problem. And yes, the pvp and over crowds having different needs doesnt help.

I dont envy their job. To know that you can put stuff out and people will still be unhappy ain't fun. But good luck to em, for all it's worth.

StabbityDoom · September 2019

To OP

1 -I think you missed the fact that ZOS got 11 pages of legit complaints about something (not just "we like" or "don't like" but "this is a problem because...") on PTS, and went ahead and did it anyway. Cue EU multibid explosion.
2 - they wrote in their Q&A that they are removing some AOEs because their servers can't handle it and to improve performance. Seriously?
3 - they have had addon data throttled now for what, months? And sellers on PC are suffering.
4 - PVP - especially on EU. I need say no more.

My point on 2-4 is, seriously? We have terrible performance and you're worried about nerfing the heck out of things? Why would you do that when things more important need to be worked on and when people are at their lowest satisfaction with the game due to that performance?

Why not wait til you get the game WORKING before you take the nerf bat to fun?

Casterial · September 2019

StabbityDoom wrote: »

To OP

1 -I think you missed the fact that ZOS got 11 pages of legit complaints about something (not just "we like" or "don't like" but "this is a problem because...") on PTS, and went ahead and did it anyway. Cue EU multibid explosion.
2 - they wrote in their Q&A that they are removing some AOEs because their servers can't handle it and to improve performance. Seriously?
3 - they have had addon data throttled now for what, months? And sellers on PC are suffering.
4 - PVP - especially on EU. I need say no more.

My point on 2-4 is, seriously? We have terrible performance and you're worried about nerfing the heck out of things? Why would you do that when things more important need to be worked on and when people are at their lowest satisfaction with the game due to that performance?

Why not wait til you get the game WORKING before you take the nerf bat to fun?

Games had far worse performance than this. It took some classes a year or two to actually even work.

Fps use to be god awful. Skills use to not register or do what they said.

Performance is being worked on. You can't say " they trashed stamina. But who cares performance is the issue." On PTS right now my stamplar is actually near useless going from top % to low % because I don't have the pressure to even fight rapids.

Performance issues have been around a lot longer than most players, they're getting better. Also to talk about removing AOE, good. You can tell the server could never handle it, why support it? ESO is one of the first games to use megaservers, it was a new concept. We all didn't know what to exactly expect.

And to talk about add-on data, it sounded like you're talking mm and TTC, both of which have always caused latency issues due to poor data calls.

Casterial · September 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Its very hard to balance skills to the start, because each have synergies, added bonuses either from passives or the skill itself... to be honest, i feel devs are going wrong, they should try to balance classes, not skills. This way we could get more class identity and variety. It´s very hard to balance skills like cloak, for example.

I semi agree, the issue is ESO is about zerg mentality in PVP and PVE. The game revolves around group synergy and group buffs rather than mechanics, group mechanicsel etc.

ZOS probably determined what they'll balance around and kept at it.

StabbityDoom · September 2019

Casterial wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

To OP

1 -I think you missed the fact that ZOS got 11 pages of legit complaints about something (not just "we like" or "don't like" but "this is a problem because...") on PTS, and went ahead and did it anyway. Cue EU multibid explosion.
2 - they wrote in their Q&A that they are removing some AOEs because their servers can't handle it and to improve performance. Seriously?
3 - they have had addon data throttled now for what, months? And sellers on PC are suffering.
4 - PVP - especially on EU. I need say no more.

My point on 2-4 is, seriously? We have terrible performance and you're worried about nerfing the heck out of things? Why would you do that when things more important need to be worked on and when people are at their lowest satisfaction with the game due to that performance?

Why not wait til you get the game WORKING before you take the nerf bat to fun?

Games had far worse performance than this. It took some classes a year or two to actually even work.

Fps use to be god awful. Skills use to not register or do what they said.

Performance is being worked on. You can't say " they trashed stamina. But who cares performance is the issue." On PTS right now my stamplar is actually near useless going from top % to low % because I don't have the pressure to even fight rapids.

Performance issues have been around a lot longer than most players, they're getting better. Also to talk about removing AOE, good. You can tell the server could never handle it, why support it? ESO is one of the first games to use megaservers, it was a new concept. We all didn't know what to exactly expect.

And to talk about add-on data, it sounded like you're talking mm and TTC, both of which have always caused latency issues due to poor data calls.

MM and TTC are not to blame. The underlying code could not respond without causing latency. I ask @sylviermoone to explain more. But stop demonizing addons for doing just what they are intended to do.

Here's your white knight tabard, wear it with pride.

Sounds like you have an excuse for everything.

Casterial · September 2019

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

To OP

1 -I think you missed the fact that ZOS got 11 pages of legit complaints about something (not just "we like" or "don't like" but "this is a problem because...") on PTS, and went ahead and did it anyway. Cue EU multibid explosion.
2 - they wrote in their Q&A that they are removing some AOEs because their servers can't handle it and to improve performance. Seriously?
3 - they have had addon data throttled now for what, months? And sellers on PC are suffering.
4 - PVP - especially on EU. I need say no more.

My point on 2-4 is, seriously? We have terrible performance and you're worried about nerfing the heck out of things? Why would you do that when things more important need to be worked on and when people are at their lowest satisfaction with the game due to that performance?

Why not wait til you get the game WORKING before you take the nerf bat to fun?

Games had far worse performance than this. It took some classes a year or two to actually even work.

Fps use to be god awful. Skills use to not register or do what they said.

Performance is being worked on. You can't say " they trashed stamina. But who cares performance is the issue." On PTS right now my stamplar is actually near useless going from top % to low % because I don't have the pressure to even fight rapids.

Performance issues have been around a lot longer than most players, they're getting better. Also to talk about removing AOE, good. You can tell the server could never handle it, why support it? ESO is one of the first games to use megaservers, it was a new concept. We all didn't know what to exactly expect.

And to talk about add-on data, it sounded like you're talking mm and TTC, both of which have always caused latency issues due to poor data calls.

MM and TTC are not to blame. The underlying code could not respond without causing latency. I ask @sylviermoone to explain more. But stop demonizing addons for doing just what they are intended to do.

Here's your white knight tabard, wear it with pride.

Sounds like you have an excuse for everything.

I write add-ons for ESO. Pulling data constantly every second isn't a good thing, especially on a game with already poor Network code.

I'm not demonizing them, I'm saying with our poor server the add-ons just add to the issue.

It's interesting to see you turn to insults, rather than logic. I'm not too sure how often MM or TTC pull data, but from my experience you want to minimize the pulling amount on anything. Why? Pulling data every second, even minutes can causes stability issues you're pinging the game, a website, and your client.

The add-ons are good, I use them. But even I know to turn them off when not trading because my ping will sit at 120ish with them on, but 90-100 with them off.

Add-ons use ZOS calls so ZOS is mostly to blame for the stability.

Now this post is about balance. If you want to complain about performance make your own post.

Trust me to, add-ons have been hit pretty hard while they rework a lot of game engine code. Working with their functions provided and then seeing them deprecated rather fast is interesting sometimes.

gepe87 · September 2019

Agree.
Change is good. We survived Morrowind, Murkmire and Scalebreaker, so it's ok.

Casterial · September 2019

gepe87 wrote: »

Agree.
Change is good. We survived Morrowind, Murkmire and Scalebreaker, so it's ok.

We survived VR -> CP when CP had no cap and would turn bad people into an immortal God.

We survived 1.4-> 1.6 when every item and skill and stat in the game was multiplied by 9.8.

We're fine, those that survive these just adapt

Casterial · September 2019

Rungar wrote: »

not buying it. They went full raid mode the last couple of years and it was a disaster. Now they have turned 180 and are going back to pvp mode as per the original design.

i believe its a good move for a game getting ready to go into quasi maintenance as they work on their new game.

This is actually one of the core issues. They have to balance around PVE and PVP. They honestly just need to give every class a different buff/debuff battle spirit in PVP and adjust the stats through this so that PVE isn't hit by PVP changes and PVP isn't hit by PVE changes as badly

Casterial · September 2019

Reverb wrote: »

Your points are well reasoned and well presented, but do not resonate with me. It’s clear that zeni’s balance strategy is huge sweeping adjustments in short order. We were so optimistic when a new combat team was handed the reins, but they’ve treated the game like a wild pendulum for too long now.

It’s no surprise that the next update is the last straw for many people.

My personal opinion, unless a specific skill is broken, adjustments should be limited to 20% or less from their initial values. Monitor and make incremental tweaks as needed. Stop toying with people.

I agree, if I went to my point lead and said " I want to nerf it by 63%" they'd say... "63%?! Holy crap that's a lot, find a solid number first." 15-20% already does change a lot

StabbityDoom · September 2019

Casterial wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

To OP

1 -I think you missed the fact that ZOS got 11 pages of legit complaints about something (not just "we like" or "don't like" but "this is a problem because...") on PTS, and went ahead and did it anyway. Cue EU multibid explosion.
2 - they wrote in their Q&A that they are removing some AOEs because their servers can't handle it and to improve performance. Seriously?
3 - they have had addon data throttled now for what, months? And sellers on PC are suffering.
4 - PVP - especially on EU. I need say no more.

My point on 2-4 is, seriously? We have terrible performance and you're worried about nerfing the heck out of things? Why would you do that when things more important need to be worked on and when people are at their lowest satisfaction with the game due to that performance?

Why not wait til you get the game WORKING before you take the nerf bat to fun?

Games had far worse performance than this. It took some classes a year or two to actually even work.

Fps use to be god awful. Skills use to not register or do what they said.

Performance is being worked on. You can't say " they trashed stamina. But who cares performance is the issue." On PTS right now my stamplar is actually near useless going from top % to low % because I don't have the pressure to even fight rapids.

Performance issues have been around a lot longer than most players, they're getting better. Also to talk about removing AOE, good. You can tell the server could never handle it, why support it? ESO is one of the first games to use megaservers, it was a new concept. We all didn't know what to exactly expect.

And to talk about add-on data, it sounded like you're talking mm and TTC, both of which have always caused latency issues due to poor data calls.

MM and TTC are not to blame. The underlying code could not respond without causing latency. I ask @sylviermoone to explain more. But stop demonizing addons for doing just what they are intended to do.

Here's your white knight tabard, wear it with pride.

Sounds like you have an excuse for everything.

I write add-ons for ESO. Pulling data constantly every second isn't a good thing, especially on a game with already poor Network code.

I'm not demonizing them, I'm saying with our poor server the add-ons just add to the issue.

It's interesting to see you turn to insults, rather than logic. I'm not too sure how often MM or TTC pull data, but from my experience you want to minimize the pulling amount on anything. Why? Pulling data every second, even minutes can causes stability issues you're pinging the game, a website, and your client.

The add-ons are good, I use them. But even I know to turn them off when not trading because my ping will sit at 120ish with them on, but 90-100 with them off.

Add-ons use ZOS calls so ZOS is mostly to blame for the stability.

Now this post is about balance. If you want to complain about performance make your own post.

Trust me to, add-ons have been hit pretty hard while they rework a lot of game engine code. Working with their functions provided and then seeing them deprecated rather fast is interesting sometimes.

As far as I know, TTC doesn't make API calls, it works with its offline data collected through the .exe. As for MM, I'm letting Sylvie answer your allegations, but again, I disagree.

I think you're projecting when you say *I'm* minimizing. I believe YOU are minimizing. You are minimizing the fault of ZOS and their negative choices. And that is why I called you a white knight, which is trying to get you to realize what you are doing.

I am saying worrying about balance - especially when you are removing things under the guise of "Balance" when it's all about your poor performance design - when there's bigger fish to fry is just driving people away, which is absolutely on topic to your post. Saying "we didn't know what to expect" is NOT an answer, it's an excuse and frankly not even relevant. AOEs are standard to these kinds of games, and the fact their servers can't handle it is not a reason to remove them, it's a reason to fix or change the server situation and/or their spaghetti code. Yes yes, they are working on it, and I am waiting to see just how they do that - because SO FAR "working on it" has meant removing things, not fixing things.

Anyway, you want me out of your thread, fine.

I said my part. Performance before nerfs, period.

Casterial · September 2019

Numerikuu wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

stuartx13 wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Sorry, I just can't take it seriously when one patch a skill needs to be buffed because it was allegedly underperforming, and then needs to be buffed worse than original because it's now allegedly overperforming.

Well, play PTS. Back yourself up on your theories. Help them. The PTS always has like 10 - 20 players, not nearly enough compared to forums.

Ok you are just wrong.How can we keep doing PTS when feedback is just blow off.

I'm saying just do our best, I personally don't see flaming/spamming the forums as a solution.

It's amounted to that in the end because pages upon pages upon pages upon pages upon pages of feedback both from testers and reps were ignored or disregarded. I gave up with the PTS because of this. The only reason they did a reverse on cast times for shields was because we flamed and spammed the forums and elsewhere, and pulled out subs and gave negative scores.

When you're constantly ignored and treated like none of your feedback matters, what else is there left to do? You either quit like many of us have, or you flame and spam. Personally I've gone with the former, as have all my friends, my friends friends, and the majority of the people in the guilds I'm in. I no longer recommend this game to anyone that asks and tell them to avoid it like the plague, where once it was the opposite.

While I generally do agree, they seem to disregard or not listen. ( See my former old Post on PTS) I reported several bugs and issues and they all hit live despite me showing steps to repo weeks in advance.

I do still recommend this game because imo MMO are almost all bad now, but this game I suggest more to PVE crowd for story than actual combat / PVP.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · September 2019

Soz but am not going to stop bashing the changes my dk build i took to pts , live with heavy attacks 65k down to 47k pts, they nerfed the dk to hard

Lylith · September 2019

stuartx13 wrote: »

It's the only way for them to Hear us.

they might hear, but i don't think they listen much.

Casterial · September 2019

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

To OP

1 -I think you missed the fact that ZOS got 11 pages of legit complaints about something (not just "we like" or "don't like" but "this is a problem because...") on PTS, and went ahead and did it anyway. Cue EU multibid explosion.
2 - they wrote in their Q&A that they are removing some AOEs because their servers can't handle it and to improve performance. Seriously?
3 - they have had addon data throttled now for what, months? And sellers on PC are suffering.
4 - PVP - especially on EU. I need say no more.

My point on 2-4 is, seriously? We have terrible performance and you're worried about nerfing the heck out of things? Why would you do that when things more important need to be worked on and when people are at their lowest satisfaction with the game due to that performance?

Why not wait til you get the game WORKING before you take the nerf bat to fun?

Games had far worse performance than this. It took some classes a year or two to actually even work.

Fps use to be god awful. Skills use to not register or do what they said.

Performance is being worked on. You can't say " they trashed stamina. But who cares performance is the issue." On PTS right now my stamplar is actually near useless going from top % to low % because I don't have the pressure to even fight rapids.

Performance issues have been around a lot longer than most players, they're getting better. Also to talk about removing AOE, good. You can tell the server could never handle it, why support it? ESO is one of the first games to use megaservers, it was a new concept. We all didn't know what to exactly expect.

And to talk about add-on data, it sounded like you're talking mm and TTC, both of which have always caused latency issues due to poor data calls.

MM and TTC are not to blame. The underlying code could not respond without causing latency. I ask @sylviermoone to explain more. But stop demonizing addons for doing just what they are intended to do.

Here's your white knight tabard, wear it with pride.

Sounds like you have an excuse for everything.

I write add-ons for ESO. Pulling data constantly every second isn't a good thing, especially on a game with already poor Network code.

I'm not demonizing them, I'm saying with our poor server the add-ons just add to the issue.

It's interesting to see you turn to insults, rather than logic. I'm not too sure how often MM or TTC pull data, but from my experience you want to minimize the pulling amount on anything. Why? Pulling data every second, even minutes can causes stability issues you're pinging the game, a website, and your client.

The add-ons are good, I use them. But even I know to turn them off when not trading because my ping will sit at 120ish with them on, but 90-100 with them off.

Add-ons use ZOS calls so ZOS is mostly to blame for the stability.

Now this post is about balance. If you want to complain about performance make your own post.

Trust me to, add-ons have been hit pretty hard while they rework a lot of game engine code. Working with their functions provided and then seeing them deprecated rather fast is interesting sometimes.

As far as I know, TTC doesn't make API calls, it works with its offline data collected through the .exe. As for MM, I'm letting Sylvie answer your allegations, but again, I disagree.

I think you're projecting when you say *I'm* minimizing. I believe YOU are minimizing. You are minimizing the fault of ZOS and their negative choices. And that is why I called you a white knight, which is trying to get you to realize what you are doing.

I am saying worrying about balance - especially when you are removing things under the guise of "Balance" when it's all about your poor performance design - when there's bigger fish to fry is just driving people away, which is absolutely on topic to your post. Saying "we didn't know what to expect" is NOT an answer, it's an excuse and frankly not even relevant. AOEs are standard to these kinds of games, and the fact their servers can't handle it is not a reason to remove them, it's a reason to fix or change the server situation and/or their spaghetti code. Yes yes, they are working on it, and I am waiting to see just how they do that - because SO FAR "working on it" has meant removing things, not fixing things.

Anyway, you want me out of your thread, fine.

I said my part. Performance before nerfs, period.

You're crying wolf here. Performance has been an issue, it's down to the core of the game. Game engine code on a customized game engine, server architecture and code that was done and the person who did it doesn't work there. Etc. You want performance to be solid you'll need ask to hire the best, or to start ESO2.

There's too many core problems at the root. And again, I'm not flaming add-ons. I'm just saying they don't help with how bad ZOS is doing with them. I support add-ons.

If you think I'm disregarding anything you're wrong. I've been here. A lot longer than most with over 4,500 hours played. The game performance is improving, but after 1.5 it has been downhill.

We use to not lag, we use to have 500v500v500 then 1.6 hit, the entire game design changes from soft caps systems to min/max, then lighting patch hit, then aoe caps hit and bam ping started spiking, PVP pop started to drop more and more. We went from 500v500v50 with fps issues (duh ofc fps would be bad in these fights) with no lag to 120v120v120 with slight fps issues and major ping issues.

They have piled crap onto the server and client architecture so bad that it'll probably take a year or two focusing on performance to fix it. Which fyi, this year is performance so just pray.

Casterial · September 2019

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Soz but am not going to stop bashing the changes my dk build i took to pts , live with heavy attacks 65k down to 47k pts, they nerfed the dk to hard

No they did, you're not wrong. All of my Stam friends abandon Stam on PTS we can't get it to work in PVP

Casterial · September 2019

Lylith wrote: »

stuartx13 wrote: »

It's the only way for them to Hear us.

they might hear, but i don't think they listen much.

Aye, I don't know who they actually listen to, but it's always worth trying I wish @ZOS_BrianWheeler could enlighten us on how he balances the game and what his future goal was, and does PTS actually matter if we play or not and provide feedback.

If you answer any of it sweet!

Canned_Apples · September 2019

@ZOS_BrianWheeler his vision is to introduce class identity- It's why he over buffed all non-class abilities.
#devlogic

Casterial · September 2019

Canned_Apples wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler his vision is to introduce class identity- It's why he over buffed all non-class abilities.
#devlogic

Well it did buff a lot of class skills as well. It's just now a lot of classes are losing that. My Templar for example has a blank empty slot on bars now haha

adree · September 2019

Casterial wrote: »

Hello ESO...bla bla bla you should love zos and be thankful...
-Casterial, Kill Counter developer

unfortunately all this text can impress casual newbie who has no idea how to use game tool and all u wrote turnes into a just trashtalking like many seams zos account posts because of one simple thing: ppl played pts sent feedback and this grp of ppl called zos ignored them all at least most important and ignoring bugs. so thx you but its hypocrisy to create post like this

Casterial · September 2019

adree wrote: »

Casterial wrote: »

Hello ESO...bla bla bla you should love zos and be thankful...
-Casterial, Kill Counter developer

unfortunately all this text can impress casual newbie...

Sorry? Who are you? Okay, majority of these players just went straight to forums. The day the patch notes dropped hundreds of post dropped.

If you think I love them you're mistaken. I'm saying prove how bad it is. People say sorc shield cast time didn't go live because of forum bashing, nah it was throughly tested on pts and had supporting evidence of how bad / slow it was.

This text wasn't meant to impress anyone, just tell them how it usually works in games in terms of ESO Wheeler will need to clarify

Nice job just reading the general post about how balance works and disregarding my replies that literally are not for ZOS at all.

karekiz · September 2019

I remember back when Woeler was in charge the general thought was ZoS balanced with a sledge hammer and needed an ice pick instead.

Hes out.

Now we balance with a nuke instead.