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actually nerfing the weakest class and buffing the strongest class
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Sirona_Starr✭✭✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »Necro was the weakest by a mile and now we are now even in the same galaxy. I'll trade my necro for just about anything else right now.
LOL Necro is SOOO weak players keep forgetting it's a class!!!
Entirely predictable. It is very similar to what they did to wardens. Especially magwardens. This is precisely why I didn't do a necromancer yet. Learned my lesson the first time around. (Necro was worse actually, with the broken skills from the get go).Edited by Sirona_Starr on September 17, 2019 12:23AM4 -
Bluestin✭✭✭Entropy nerf applies to all mag classes. Stamplar is unaffected by this.
Stamplar can still use onslaught jabs.
Living Dark was WAY overtuned. Getting a nerf doesn't make them weak.
Javelin? whatever. 90% of magplars don't even run javelin cause toppling is already a stun+off balance. Stamplars have a reason to run them now that dizzying is dead.
I'm not sure how useful off balance will be to stam/mag templar with the changes to Jabs/Sweeps. With that skill now being considered direct damage and thus scaling off Master-At-Arms, putting CP into Thaumaturge (75 cp for Exploiter) seems extremely sub-optimal.
I do think PoTL/PL being able to crit is excessive though; the skill already dealt a pretty reasonably large amount of unblockable damage in PvP. I feel like it would be prudent to see what kind of damage Purifying Light can do following all of the other damage reductions before adding in the ability for the skill to critically hit.
Edited by Bluestin on September 17, 2019 12:33AM0 -
alexyin2✭My main Stamblade seeing this path note: speechless.
Me: Just wear the jailbreaker set and start grinding crafting materials1 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭Topic starter, you must be a comedian. Cause i'm laughing.It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverPaws wrote: »Zenimax said that they want to give stamdk's some "class identity" and they nerf our dots which weren't op in first place and increase they're cost on top... So where is this stamdk identity ???
stamdk identity = trashcan
Along with almost everyone elseBeta tester November 20133 -
KingExecration✭✭✭✭I wouldn’t say stam sorc is weakest now but all I got was nerfs and a stam pet. Wut2
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverPaws wrote: »Zenimax said that they want to give stamdk's some "class identity" and they nerf our dots which weren't op in first place and increase they're cost on top... So where is this stamdk identity ???
You all asked for the ooga booga stonefist spamable and you got your wish. Enjoy throwing rocks at people.0 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »So you are completely buffing OP templars even more and nerf DK's (weakest class scalebreaker) for what reason?
I don't even wanna talk about Nightblade nerfs. Who is behind all of these changes? Do they PvP at all or where do they get their feedback even?
I think that Magblades win for weakest SB class. Even worse now. And my stamblade... lolcry
Necro has to be the weakest. Magblade isn't great but at least there are reasons to play magblade.
Mine makes a really good lazy pickpocketer...
Crouch behind victim -> cloak cloak cloak til the pickpocket chance meter turns green -> doesn't matter who's around, pickpocket anyway -> obtain bounty -> cloak cloak cloak -> repeat until bored, log off of magblade for the night so bounty goes away.0 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭Aedric Spear
Piercing Javelin:
Reduced the range from this ability and its morphs to 22 meters, down from 28, to ensure they follow the function of other abilities such as Scatter Shot or Fiery Grip.
These abilities will now ignore the target’s Physical or Spell Resistance to ensure they have a unique auxiliary effect.
This^^ This could get quite abusive in BG/Cyrodiil for a potential group/zerg spam on targets.1 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am talking about STAMDK.
either way it doesn't matter who is weakest at this point be it NB or DK
templars were OP and now they will be even more OP. Why do you give them snare now instead of immobolize? Why guaranteed crits on OP damage skills?
Where does this templar bias come from?
pretty sure the lead class dev mains a templar, so that's where it comes from. i think at this point jabs/sweep should out damage almost every ability in the game besides a select few, including all single target dots. ritual will still do like 10 different things with a single cast. lol.
tooltips on pts:
puncturing sweep - 9,492
soul trap - 7,638
entropy - 7,638
destructive touch - 7,442
luminous shards - 8,064
unstable wall of elements - 12,346
vampire's bane - 10,776, but this is a 16 second dot.
sweep also will also presumably no longer be reduced by major evasion, making it even better than before.
when your spammable does more damage than dots lmao.
edit: also, purifying light wasn't hit with the nerf bat for some weird reason and has a total tooltip of 21,624, which is huge compared to everything else that was just nerfed into the ground.
basically sweep is now so much better than everything else that i'd imagine there won't be much to do on a templar besides applying purifying light and spamming sweep.Edited by ecru on September 17, 2019 6:22AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer3 -
juhislihis19✭✭✭✭DK was not the weakest class but Templar is definitely the strongest, and they didn't do any effort to balance this. The Templar "nerfs" are no nerfs at all.
They nerfed all DOTs, and but remembered to change Puncturing Strikes to Direct Damage so the nerf wouldn't affect it.2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭juhislihis19 wrote: »DK was not the weakest class but Templar is definitely the strongest, and they didn't do any effort to balance this. The Templar "nerfs" are no nerfs at all.
They nerfed all DOTs, and but remembered to change Puncturing Strikes to Direct Damage so the nerf wouldn't affect it.
Dude come on. Don’t be thick. I mean for *** real? This is how we get classes ruined. Yes jabs is damage over time (or was) but it’s also a channel, you can’t just cast it and go about your business. It’s entirely different from other single target dots like twin slashes or entropy. FFS. At least try to learn about the game before posting. Magplars are now balanced and Stamplars won’t be able to dizzy onslaught jabs that everyone complained about.Edited by Vapirko on September 17, 2019 7:08AM2 -
juhislihis19✭✭✭✭juhislihis19 wrote: »DK was not the weakest class but Templar is definitely the strongest, and they didn't do any effort to balance this. The Templar "nerfs" are no nerfs at all.
They nerfed all DOTs, and but remembered to change Puncturing Strikes to Direct Damage so the nerf wouldn't affect it.
Dude come on. Don’t be thick. I mean for *** real? This is how we get classes ruined. Yes jabs is damage over time (or was) but it’s also a channel, you can’t just cast it and go about your business. It’s entirely different from other single target dots like twin slashes or entropy. FFS. At least try to learn about the game before posting. Magplars are now balanced and Stamplars won’t be able to dizzy onslaught jabs that everyone complained about.
You are right, it's entirely different from other DOTs. When other DOTs deal 7-8k damage in 8-10 seconds, Puncturing hits the same damage in a second.
I guarantee you 100% that Magplars are not balanced now. Guaranteed. The fact that you can't see anything 'wrong' with current state of Templars vs other classes, makes you extremely biased and I know none of this will go through your skull. I know you are having fun playing your Templar, and no one was asking to nerf Templar to oblivion, no one.
What I and many others asked for, was an intelligent nerf for Templar OR even to check if there was any bugs affecting ie. CP's that made Templars so strong. This was one of the reasons that made PetSorcs so strong at first.
And what did we get? All the other classes got nerfed, heavily.
Example of an intelligent nerf:
Dizzying Swing - reduced the damage by 10-20%
Onslaught - reduced the duration to 8 seconds
Not an intelligent nerf:
NERFED ALL DOTS BY 50%!!!2 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »So you are completely buffing OP templars even more and nerf DK's (weakest class scalebreaker) for what reason?
I don't even wanna talk about Nightblade nerfs. Who is behind all of these changes? Do they PvP at all or where do they get their feedback even?
I think that Magblades win for weakest SB class. Even worse now. And my stamblade... lolcry
Necro has to be the weakest. Magblade isn't great but at least there are reasons to play magblade.
Actually I fought one good necro on my magblade which ended in a draw, we couldn't kill eachother. He was very good at using totem as his safe house. In the end both classes seems to be on very bottom of PvP food chain. DKs are not even close to the poor state of magcro and magblade - which are nerefed even more OUTSIDE of DoTs nerfs!I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »Zenimax said that they want to give stamdk's some "class identity" and they nerf our dots which weren't op in first place and increase they're cost on top... So where is this stamdk identity ???
You all asked for the ooga booga stonefist spamable and you got your wish. Enjoy throwing rocks at people.
LOL I never asked for stonefist to be our spammable.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭juhislihis19 wrote: »juhislihis19 wrote: »DK was not the weakest class but Templar is definitely the strongest, and they didn't do any effort to balance this. The Templar "nerfs" are no nerfs at all.
They nerfed all DOTs, and but remembered to change Puncturing Strikes to Direct Damage so the nerf wouldn't affect it.
Dude come on. Don’t be thick. I mean for *** real? This is how we get classes ruined. Yes jabs is damage over time (or was) but it’s also a channel, you can’t just cast it and go about your business. It’s entirely different from other single target dots like twin slashes or entropy. FFS. At least try to learn about the game before posting. Magplars are now balanced and Stamplars won’t be able to dizzy onslaught jabs that everyone complained about.
You are right, it's entirely different from other DOTs. When other DOTs deal 7-8k damage in 8-10 seconds, Puncturing hits the same damage in a second.
I guarantee you 100% that Magplars are not balanced now. Guaranteed. The fact that you can't see anything 'wrong' with current state of Templars vs other classes, makes you extremely biased and I know none of this will go through your skull. I know you are having fun playing your Templar, and no one was asking to nerf Templar to oblivion, no one.
What I and many others asked for, was an intelligent nerf for Templar OR even to check if there was any bugs affecting ie. CP's that made Templars so strong. This was one of the reasons that made PetSorcs so strong at first.
And what did we get? All the other classes got nerfed, heavily.
Example of an intelligent nerf:
Dizzying Swing - reduced the damage by 10-20%
Onslaught - reduced the duration to 8 seconds
Not an intelligent nerf:
NERFED ALL DOTS BY 50%!!!
So now what? You’re just doubling down on the fact that you’re wrong? And then what? You’re calling the dot nerfs unintelligent then asking that jabs not only be treated the same but also receive the same nerf even though it’s a spammable and not a single darget sticky dot? I think I understand why you’re bitching about templars still. You’re bad and you don’t understand this game. Even a powerful jabs tooltip might hit for 16k unlike rending slashes or entropy which go to 20-28k. Not only that but it’s a channel which leaves you open while casting. It’s also a melee skill and it requires you to stay focused on your target through the duration. But go ahead respond to this post with even more tantrums and incorrect info. Keep calling for everything to be nerfed. *** moron.Edited by Vapirko on September 17, 2019 10:51AM1 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭juhislihis19 wrote: »juhislihis19 wrote: »DK was not the weakest class but Templar is definitely the strongest, and they didn't do any effort to balance this. The Templar "nerfs" are no nerfs at all.
They nerfed all DOTs, and but remembered to change Puncturing Strikes to Direct Damage so the nerf wouldn't affect it.
Dude come on. Don’t be thick. I mean for *** real? This is how we get classes ruined. Yes jabs is damage over time (or was) but it’s also a channel, you can’t just cast it and go about your business. It’s entirely different from other single target dots like twin slashes or entropy. FFS. At least try to learn about the game before posting. Magplars are now balanced and Stamplars won’t be able to dizzy onslaught jabs that everyone complained about.
You are right, it's entirely different from other DOTs. When other DOTs deal 7-8k damage in 8-10 seconds, Puncturing hits the same damage in a second.
I guarantee you 100% that Magplars are not balanced now. Guaranteed. The fact that you can't see anything 'wrong' with current state of Templars vs other classes, makes you extremely biased and I know none of this will go through your skull. I know you are having fun playing your Templar, and no one was asking to nerf Templar to oblivion, no one.
What I and many others asked for, was an intelligent nerf for Templar OR even to check if there was any bugs affecting ie. CP's that made Templars so strong. This was one of the reasons that made PetSorcs so strong at first.
And what did we get? All the other classes got nerfed, heavily.
Example of an intelligent nerf:
Dizzying Swing - reduced the damage by 10-20%
Onslaught - reduced the duration to 8 seconds
Not an intelligent nerf:
NERFED ALL DOTS BY 50%!!!
So now what? You’re just doubling down on the fact that you’re wrong? And then what? You’re calling the dot nerfs unintelligent then asking that jabs not only be treated the same but also receive the same nerf even though it’s a spammable and not a single darget sticky dot? I think I understand why you’re bitching about templars still. You’re bad and you don’t understand this game. Even a powerful jabs tooltip might hit for 16k unlike rending slashes or entropy which go to 20-28k. Not only that but it’s a channel which leaves you open while casting. It’s also a melee skill and it requires you to stay focused on your target through the duration. But go ahead respond to this post with even more tantrums and incorrect info. Keep calling for everything to be nerfed. *** moron.
he's not wrong. jabs probably does about 60% more damage than wrecking blow now, and potentially 90-100% more than the new stamdk spammable. i posted tooltips above showing that sweep now does more damage than every dot besides the 16 second duration vampire's bane.
stamdk had basically every source of it's class damage nerfed to a pretty extreme degree, while stamplar retained the damage from jabs and potl.Edited by ecru on September 17, 2019 11:09AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer1 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sirona_Starr wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »Necro was the weakest by a mile and now we are now even in the same galaxy. I'll trade my necro for just about anything else right now.
LOL Necro is SOOO weak players keep forgetting it's a class!!!
Entirely predictable. It is very similar to what they did to wardens. Especially magwardens. This is precisely why I didn't do a necromancer yet. Learned my lesson the first time around. (Necro was worse actually, with the broken skills from the get go).
Yeah and what burns me the most about it all is I had a Warden at Morrowind launch so I know too how horrible they hit and promised I wouldn't do that again. Now here Necro comes and I am so bored of the 4 original classes so I make one and like it... I made it my main and now... I am paying for it. Luckily I can just turn it into a quester to get most of the pve content done and pvp on my Warden.0 -
juhislihis19✭✭✭✭juhislihis19 wrote: »juhislihis19 wrote: »DK was not the weakest class but Templar is definitely the strongest, and they didn't do any effort to balance this. The Templar "nerfs" are no nerfs at all.
They nerfed all DOTs, and but remembered to change Puncturing Strikes to Direct Damage so the nerf wouldn't affect it.
Dude come on. Don’t be thick. I mean for *** real? This is how we get classes ruined. Yes jabs is damage over time (or was) but it’s also a channel, you can’t just cast it and go about your business. It’s entirely different from other single target dots like twin slashes or entropy. FFS. At least try to learn about the game before posting. Magplars are now balanced and Stamplars won’t be able to dizzy onslaught jabs that everyone complained about.
You are right, it's entirely different from other DOTs. When other DOTs deal 7-8k damage in 8-10 seconds, Puncturing hits the same damage in a second.
I guarantee you 100% that Magplars are not balanced now. Guaranteed. The fact that you can't see anything 'wrong' with current state of Templars vs other classes, makes you extremely biased and I know none of this will go through your skull. I know you are having fun playing your Templar, and no one was asking to nerf Templar to oblivion, no one.
What I and many others asked for, was an intelligent nerf for Templar OR even to check if there was any bugs affecting ie. CP's that made Templars so strong. This was one of the reasons that made PetSorcs so strong at first.
And what did we get? All the other classes got nerfed, heavily.
Example of an intelligent nerf:
Dizzying Swing - reduced the damage by 10-20%
Onslaught - reduced the duration to 8 seconds
Not an intelligent nerf:
NERFED ALL DOTS BY 50%!!!
So now what? You’re just doubling down on the fact that you’re wrong? And then what? You’re calling the dot nerfs unintelligent then asking that jabs not only be treated the same but also receive the same nerf even though it’s a spammable and not a single darget sticky dot? I think I understand why you’re bitching about templars still. You’re bad and you don’t understand this game. Even a powerful jabs tooltip might hit for 16k unlike rending slashes or entropy which go to 20-28k. Not only that but it’s a channel which leaves you open while casting. It’s also a melee skill and it requires you to stay focused on your target through the duration. But go ahead respond to this post with even more tantrums and incorrect info. Keep calling for everything to be nerfed. *** moron.
Everything to be nerfed? I didnt want that? You spew so much garbage in that post you could be working for ZOS! That is if you would actually go to work lol.
I don't get why you get your panties up in a bunch so easily. But I guess this is the insecure reaction you get when someone questions the balance of your main class. There is a reason PVP got filled with Templars after the last patch you know. And I wanted an answer for that. And I was also pissed with the nerfs.
Please get back at the discussion when you're through your seemingly rough puberty.1 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭One of the problems with this thread is most of you are talking PvP, possibly even no CP PVP, possibly even BG's or, god help you duelling: all without saying so.
This means you are completely ignoring the fact that only 3 groups have completed the hardest PvE content in game (vSS no death hardmode speedrun) by necromancer stacking. And they only just achieved the 30 minute achievement with 3 minutes to spare. That's only 36 people across all servers. So the elite PvE guilds have issues with getting the hardest stuff done even stacking the best class for that content. (FYI, Necros in PvE pull the highest damage of all classes (100k dummy parses are not uncommon) and they benefit by stacking with each other. )
The very same class some people here are calling weak. So when people in this thread say necros are weak, most players will scoff.
In addition overland and old dungeon trials are a joke on normal now because of insane DPS creep on all classes. So nerfing damage to make sure that mechanics, even in vet trials cannot be bipassed completely, is inevitable. The dot meta was an attempt to avoid the insane burst available to a lot of classes. Now they are trying something else.I am not a fan of the pendulum swinging back and forth but I do understand the reasons for reducing DPS overall. ^ edit: unfortunately the new vet trials are tuned to insane necro stacking dps and the content most PvEers do is tuned to 15k average....so neither the light attack from the back 5kdpsers, nor the progression trials guilds, nor the .01% elite players are happy.
Then we look at PvP in all its varieties and of course the classes perform completely differently.
MagDKs are still super viable in CP PvP despite the OP's lament about being the weakest class (LOL). I do understand some concerns about the dot changes affecting them but haven't seen anything in the notes that makes them specifically singled out to be worst class in PvP.
Meanwhile wardens (I play those too) have got some changes that will make them viable in PvE and wicked in CP PVP. Dive dive dive FTW. I guess the magden's time in PvP has come
Sorc's look like they will be viable healers again, which is great for us healers...PvP stam sorcs won't have their 3 button combo being as deadly with the changes to dizzying swing but will still be able to do great damage with bound armaments....a class skill. The new Streak looks cool if it works.
As for templars being 'OP'. Personally, having PvPed on a magplar in CP campaigns for a long while, I was enjoying being really viable instead of relegated to support. Templars were nerfed over and over for 3 years and it badly affected us both in PvP and PvE. No one took a Templar to dps in hard PvE content and they were slow and clunky with irrelevant passives in PvP. The last 2 patches changed that thanks to considered feedback, great class reps and a lot of maths and testing on PTS. I agree they perform well in PvP now because they synergised well with the experimental dot meta, they had a bunch of under-performing skills balanced and got some buffs, all in one pass. However, since the dot meta has changed, so will Templar performance. Particularly in CP campaigns...
My point is this: when commenting on the first iteration of these changes please
1. test them out rather than leap on one patch note and scream the sky is falling.
2. provide feedback identifying under what circumstances you tested them on what class ie- PvP or PvE.
- Solo or Group.
- Cp or no CP.
- Tooltip 'warrioring' or actual playing.
Edited by aetherial_heavenn on September 17, 2019 12:12PMQuoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos3 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »All classes were insanely nerfed, stop being a snowflake
What a deplorable insult.Edited by ChunkyCat on September 17, 2019 12:29PM0 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So you are completely buffing OP templars even more and nerf DK's (weakest class scalebreaker) for what reason?
I don't even wanna talk about Nightblade nerfs. Who is behind all of these changes? Do they PvP at all or where do they get their feedback even?
Dk's are not the weakest class in Scalebreaker by a longshot. That's on you if yours is not properly theory crafted and not played right. You can just destroy people easily.
Zos just needs to tweak rather then destroy things. We need class identity back for all the classes, not this garbage that is going on now. They all need to be favorites.
Edited by Girl_Number8 on September 17, 2019 1:01PM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverPaws wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »Zenimax said that they want to give stamdk's some "class identity" and they nerf our dots which weren't op in first place and increase they're cost on top... So where is this stamdk identity ???
You all asked for the ooga booga stonefist spamable and you got your wish. Enjoy throwing rocks at people.
LOL I never asked for stonefist to be our spammable.
I mean I was making a generalization, a lot of people, including some class reps actually did push for this change without even thinking a second about how good a stonefist spammable would be in reality. The skill looks , feels and performs HORRIBLE, it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the DK class or attrition based combat. I would have accepted this if it was a melee CC that did double damage if it does stun the target, but spamming a ranged attack 6 times to get a stun?
This is the best meme I've seen since this game's launch. Its so good that it makes the stamina whip meme look bad.0
