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Why ESO is Failing

  • tuxon
    tuxon
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    Because of Crownstore
    Resdayniil kan tarcel
  • Idinuse
    Idinuse
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    I’ve been playing ESO since a month after its release. I fell in love with it and spent thousands of hours adventuring through all of Tamriel. I have been very ill the last 5 years and have mostly been confined to a bed or chair so I unfortunately have a lot of time on my hands and playing ESO really helped pass a lot of that time. Over the years though I have watched as the game really started to go down hill. I think ESO suffers from many pitfalls just like other gaming developers seem susceptible to. There is whining and there is constructive feedback, I am just trying to present feedback that might actually help improve the game. Sorry if this sounds like a rant that is not my intention just sad to see this game being driven into the ground by dumb decisions.

    Useless Nerfs/Gear/Builds - First, the game has way too many changes and useless additions. Again catering to those that have been here forever they constantly need to come out with new stuff and make constant changes to keep people interested. This is fine to a certain extent but enough is enough. Eventually you just give up and go play something else.
    Just when you finally get your build and gear right it becomes irrelevant and you have to start all over, delete or rework characters, buy more slots, change races, sacrifice your first born to Stendar etc. The game quickly becomes about chasing gear and not about actually playing and enjoying the game anymore. But yet new sets are always popping up, and nerfs and balances are constantly happening. At a normal job if you can’t get it right after a few months your fired, you would think eventually they would at least come close to getting the balance right but they don’t. Maybe we should fire them. But in reality I believe all of that is intended, in some sick, perverse way I think they think it actually keeps people interested in the game, or maybe it just drives them to spend. Or maybe the devs are just sick sadistic SOB’s that enjoy tormenting their player base.
    Then a new class will emerge and everyone will love it because it actually starts to have the game playability that everyone is looking for and then they will nerf it into the ground for the next 6 months until it is dead. People will eventually become disheartened and overwhelmed with trying to keep up. The game should be actually enjoyable. You should be able to play the content, experience it and have fun and not constantly have to change your build, your gear and your character, etc. It’s just not fun. ESO isn’t about enjoying the content, it’s about chasing gear and adjusting builds, sad. A lot of people I know put a lot of time and effort into perfecting their builds only to have them torn apart the moment they are finished. I can’t tell you how many players I know that have been faithful ESO Plus members eventually just get so disheartened after dealing with this for years that they leave because they can’t even enjoy the ESO they fell in love with. This zaps the life right out of the game.

    Toxicity - Second of all I’ve seen this happen a dozen times at least with games. Eventually all the main players become maxed, they become bored, then they start roving around like thuggish gangs harassing and trolling everyone. ESO has been no exception here. And unfortunately most devs start dictating their decision to appease this player group, when in reality for the health of their game they should just let them go. They are like a cancer, cut it off so the the rest can survive. But all too often they do not and eventually these thugs start driving everyone away, especially new players. And of course not every high level player fits this bill and there are plenty of low level trolls as well but overall, there is a distinct group of 810’s that are just bored, hostile and mean and if you don’t fit into their clique they will harass, bully and drive you away.

    Greed - So many Devs go wrong here. Their games have been out for years and they start to feel the pressure to have new content etc or they will start to lose people. Unfortunately most games then self destruct with solutions that always involve people having to spend more money. Until eventually, people just leave. In reality most devs actually drive players away and destroy their own games with stupid decisions meant to save their games and make more money. Along those lines, the items in the crown store are just plain stupid as far as pricing goes. If you are an ESO plus member they are already getting a considerable amount of money for you every year, plus the amount you paid for the game itself. A lot of the items in crown store should be a fraction of the cost. So many devs want more money but go about it all wrong. Look at Fortnite, one of the most successful and prosperous games to date, period. You never get the feeling playing it that they have you over a barrel, or you have to spend a ridiculous amount of money to make the game easier, or to advance. In fact you don’t mind spending in Fortnite at all. And if you don’t want to spend, then don’t. It’s a great business model that is wildly successful but others go the route like ESO where you feel this constant pull on you, squeezing you and shaking you down for every last cent. This may work for a short while but eventually people move away.

    Listen to your community - most devs miss this one or just listen to a certain group of players. In fact, sometimes you get the impression that a lot of devs are purposely driving away the majority of their players, which tells me there is a serious disconnect between the two parties. If you are constantly doing the opposite of what the majority of your community is saying, that tells me either your not listening, don’t care or are wanting to drive them away. Zenimax is famous for this as well as Bethesda in their other games. Or they cater the majority of their decisions to the veteran squeaky wheel who whines the most. Huge mistake.

    Depth - this is the number one game killer. Without depth, developers are forced to do basically what ESO does, sell expensive crown store content. Depth sustains a game giving it long life, ESO in a lot of ways however is very shallow. Hence we must have a new area or a harder area, or a new mount or a new this or a new that, this is ok, but unfortunately the new content is a dull, boring, lifeless re-skinned version of all the other content we’ve already seen. I’ve said for years that ESO is like a dumbed down arcade version of Final Fantasy online. I love ESO but for the most part this is true. FF has extreme depth whereas ESO only scratches the surface. This however may be an unsolvable issue at this point since it’s the foundation the game is built upon. If you have no depth, people get bored, if people get bored you have to offer them new items to buy in crown store...maybe this is by design.

    RNG - most players I know like to have hard work rewarded. That’s why gamers are such good grinders, they are going towards a goal, working towards something they want to attain. In ESO however, RNG rules. While there are things you can just grind out which are fantastic. For the most part however RNG has way to big of a role. For instance I played for 8 straight months doing nothing but looting (dedicated looting didn’t do any other content) everything possible spot in the game at least 10 hours a day. Then I spent another 3 months doing nothing but pickpocketing every known hotspot, routes etc., this coupled with the fact that I played for over three years looting every single container I ever came across in a dungeon delve, bank, house etc. and doing writs on my maxed crafters daily. At the end of all this time I had a
    a handful of purple recipes, and 2 psijic parts, and three throne praxis, and one master writ worth doing. That’s it. Nothing else valuable to speak of. Then my friend who had been playing 2 months loots 2 full book gold motifs, after a few attempts. This is a perfect example of things needing to be addressed. I get RNG has a role but people should also be rewarded for hard work. There should be a way that your RNG becomes higher as you level and progress. After you have put a ton of effort your chances must increase. Otherwise it just becomes disheartening again. I mean who wants to play the game for that long without reward to show for it. The things that you can grind out are great. Like the Indrik mounts people whine about, at least you can put a ton of effort into and get it. Even the welkynar motifs as ridiculous as that whole setup is at least if you put a lot of extra effort and time, eventually there will be a reward. After three years plus of looting, I’m like “What’s the point?” Games are more successful when people can grind out a goal period. Even if it’s a ridiculous grind. The RNG in this game need a rework or at least a progression increase of your chances the longer you play.

    Housing - we all waited a long time for housing and ever since it’s release it has been quite lackluster. Again this is an area where ESO could learn a ton from games like Final Fantasy online. Their housing setup is outstanding and highly customizable for everyone In the guild since everyone has an option to buy their own instanced room which they can decorate however. Furnishings aren’t ridiculous like ESO to acquire or craft either. It’s an enjoyable experience, but again FF has extreme depth whereas ESO does not hence the current housing situation. Housing is a chore and way to tedious and convoluted. They keep coming out with new houses but they just miss the mark and the furnishings and building system really needs an overhaul and some depth added to it to make things much more customizable in an easier but more expansive

    There are of course plenty of other reasons but this post is long enough for now.

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  • gatekeeper13
    gatekeeper13
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    Useless nerfs/gear/builds: You have a point here, although I dont think nerfs are unecessary. As another member here wrote, dps is truly out of control in this game. Was doing vetWGT for tickets the other day and Molag Kena was dead in less than 1 min. What's enjoyable or challenging in this? Nothing. 70% (or more) of sets are useless trash for decon. Why? Because the game does not let you "play as you want" but as zos wants. And forces you to be formulaic in order to complete anything, because the majority of the pve content of the game is badly designed. As for the builds, my Templar tank already has a resource sustain issue and the issue will become even worse. Just saw in the patch notes that Wall of Elements will see its Magicka cost almost doubled (4950 from 3024!!!!)

    Toxicity: That's indeed an issue. There is a lot of toxic trash in ESO and unfortunately, zos does nothing about it. And you cant do anything from your side either. There are people who roam the zones and dungeons and harass people and never get banned. The only thing zos allows you to do, is first add them to ignore list and only if they continue to do it and report them for a second time, they will check the report. What's the result? You ignore them, they cant harass you anymore but they will have the total freedom to do it on other players. Wont forget the first time I did vDoM. Because I am red color blind, I couldnt see the aoe of Weeping Woman (default aoe color red) on the ground and died for 2-3 times in a row. Hadnt realized it was my color blindness that led me to death and when I did, I changed aoe to white and passed the boss easily. But till then and the end of the dungeon, I had one trash healer insulting me with the worst thing you can say to people (cant even write it here), he told me to get cancer, he dissed my family and he wouldnt stop till we finished the dungeon (thank God there was a pretty cool guy who kept me in group and advised me in the whole dungeon). And that piece of trash keeps on playing the game till the time I write this post. I personally did not care much but trash like that, may lead other people to quit playing.

    RNG: The worst designed part of the game. Some months ago, decided to make Alqast Templar Tank build and so I started farming the Brands of Imperium s/b and jewelry. Believe it or not, it took me around 50 runs to get an 1-handed weapon and shield. As for the sword itself, It dropped almost recently, after 100+ runs (including the pledges that followed). During the Orsinium event, I once extracted 700 platinium dust and got only 1 chromium and 600 rudebite ore for 2 alloys. Spent 50 keys on Dragon Bones chests to get heavy Thurvokun and got 4 light and 6 medium. Not saying that we should have a 50% chance drop but the current rate is insanely low.
    Edited by gatekeeper13 on September 17, 2019 11:56AM
  • Runkorko
    Runkorko
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    tuxon wrote: »
    Because of Crownstore

    You have nothing else to say?
    The only thing zos do well is crown store.
    ZoS is "failing" because the lack of comunication with the comunity.
    Like zero....
  • nafensoriel
    nafensoriel
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    Casterial wrote: »
    In their eyes its not, for us old players it is. Why? The game 13 million players! We're like the last 1%, ZOS doesn't really care about us as much, its more about newer players, and new experiences. Gotta market around 99% not 1%

    13 million accounts, not active players. Those are probably less than a million.

    Well, it's known monthly users worldwide is close to 3 million so your bias is showing.

    For everyone else... It's really easy to live in an echo chamber of friends and assume the majority thinks as your small circle thinks. Reality is never the same though for well, anything.
  • psychotrip
    psychotrip
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    I’ve been playing ESO since a month after its release. I fell in love with it and spent thousands of hours adventuring through all of Tamriel. I have been very ill the last 5 years and have mostly been confined to a bed or chair so I unfortunately have a lot of time on my hands and playing ESO really helped pass a lot of that time. Over the years though I have watched as the game really started to go down hill. I think ESO suffers from many pitfalls just like other gaming developers seem susceptible to. There is whining and there is constructive feedback, I am just trying to present feedback that might actually help improve the game. Sorry if this sounds like a rant that is not my intention just sad to see this game being driven into the ground by dumb decisions.

    Useless Nerfs/Gear/Builds - First, the game has way too many changes and useless additions. Again catering to those that have been here forever they constantly need to come out with new stuff and make constant changes to keep people interested. This is fine to a certain extent but enough is enough. Eventually you just give up and go play something else.
    Just when you finally get your build and gear right it becomes irrelevant and you have to start all over, delete or rework characters, buy more slots, change races, sacrifice your first born to Stendar etc. The game quickly becomes about chasing gear and not about actually playing and enjoying the game anymore. But yet new sets are always popping up, and nerfs and balances are constantly happening. At a normal job if you can’t get it right after a few months your fired, you would think eventually they would at least come close to getting the balance right but they don’t. Maybe we should fire them. But in reality I believe all of that is intended, in some sick, perverse way I think they think it actually keeps people interested in the game, or maybe it just drives them to spend. Or maybe the devs are just sick sadistic SOB’s that enjoy tormenting their player base.
    Then a new class will emerge and everyone will love it because it actually starts to have the game playability that everyone is looking for and then they will nerf it into the ground for the next 6 months until it is dead. People will eventually become disheartened and overwhelmed with trying to keep up. The game should be actually enjoyable. You should be able to play the content, experience it and have fun and not constantly have to change your build, your gear and your character, etc. It’s just not fun. ESO isn’t about enjoying the content, it’s about chasing gear and adjusting builds, sad. A lot of people I know put a lot of time and effort into perfecting their builds only to have them torn apart the moment they are finished. I can’t tell you how many players I know that have been faithful ESO Plus members eventually just get so disheartened after dealing with this for years that they leave because they can’t even enjoy the ESO they fell in love with. This zaps the life right out of the game.

    Toxicity - Second of all I’ve seen this happen a dozen times at least with games. Eventually all the main players become maxed, they become bored, then they start roving around like thuggish gangs harassing and trolling everyone. ESO has been no exception here. And unfortunately most devs start dictating their decision to appease this player group, when in reality for the health of their game they should just let them go. They are like a cancer, cut it off so the the rest can survive. But all too often they do not and eventually these thugs start driving everyone away, especially new players. And of course not every high level player fits this bill and there are plenty of low level trolls as well but overall, there is a distinct group of 810’s that are just bored, hostile and mean and if you don’t fit into their clique they will harass, bully and drive you away.

    Greed - So many Devs go wrong here. Their games have been out for years and they start to feel the pressure to have new content etc or they will start to lose people. Unfortunately most games then self destruct with solutions that always involve people having to spend more money. Until eventually, people just leave. In reality most devs actually drive players away and destroy their own games with stupid decisions meant to save their games and make more money. Along those lines, the items in the crown store are just plain stupid as far as pricing goes. If you are an ESO plus member they are already getting a considerable amount of money for you every year, plus the amount you paid for the game itself. A lot of the items in crown store should be a fraction of the cost. So many devs want more money but go about it all wrong. Look at Fortnite, one of the most successful and prosperous games to date, period. You never get the feeling playing it that they have you over a barrel, or you have to spend a ridiculous amount of money to make the game easier, or to advance. In fact you don’t mind spending in Fortnite at all. And if you don’t want to spend, then don’t. It’s a great business model that is wildly successful but others go the route like ESO where you feel this constant pull on you, squeezing you and shaking you down for every last cent. This may work for a short while but eventually people move away.

    Listen to your community - most devs miss this one or just listen to a certain group of players. In fact, sometimes you get the impression that a lot of devs are purposely driving away the majority of their players, which tells me there is a serious disconnect between the two parties. If you are constantly doing the opposite of what the majority of your community is saying, that tells me either your not listening, don’t care or are wanting to drive them away. Zenimax is famous for this as well as Bethesda in their other games. Or they cater the majority of their decisions to the veteran squeaky wheel who whines the most. Huge mistake.

    Depth - this is the number one game killer. Without depth, developers are forced to do basically what ESO does, sell expensive crown store content. Depth sustains a game giving it long life, ESO in a lot of ways however is very shallow. Hence we must have a new area or a harder area, or a new mount or a new this or a new that, this is ok, but unfortunately the new content is a dull, boring, lifeless re-skinned version of all the other content we’ve already seen. I’ve said for years that ESO is like a dumbed down arcade version of Final Fantasy online. I love ESO but for the most part this is true. FF has extreme depth whereas ESO only scratches the surface. This however may be an unsolvable issue at this point since it’s the foundation the game is built upon. If you have no depth, people get bored, if people get bored you have to offer them new items to buy in crown store...maybe this is by design.

    RNG - most players I know like to have hard work rewarded. That’s why gamers are such good grinders, they are going towards a goal, working towards something they want to attain. In ESO however, RNG rules. While there are things you can just grind out which are fantastic. For the most part however RNG has way to big of a role. For instance I played for 8 straight months doing nothing but looting (dedicated looting didn’t do any other content) everything possible spot in the game at least 10 hours a day. Then I spent another 3 months doing nothing but pickpocketing every known hotspot, routes etc., this coupled with the fact that I played for over three years looting every single container I ever came across in a dungeon delve, bank, house etc. and doing writs on my maxed crafters daily. At the end of all this time I had a
    a handful of purple recipes, and 2 psijic parts, and three throne praxis, and one master writ worth doing. That’s it. Nothing else valuable to speak of. Then my friend who had been playing 2 months loots 2 full book gold motifs, after a few attempts. This is a perfect example of things needing to be addressed. I get RNG has a role but people should also be rewarded for hard work. There should be a way that your RNG becomes higher as you level and progress. After you have put a ton of effort your chances must increase. Otherwise it just becomes disheartening again. I mean who wants to play the game for that long without reward to show for it. The things that you can grind out are great. Like the Indrik mounts people whine about, at least you can put a ton of effort into and get it. Even the welkynar motifs as ridiculous as that whole setup is at least if you put a lot of extra effort and time, eventually there will be a reward. After three years plus of looting, I’m like “What’s the point?” Games are more successful when people can grind out a goal period. Even if it’s a ridiculous grind. The RNG in this game need a rework or at least a progression increase of your chances the longer you play.

    Housing - we all waited a long time for housing and ever since it’s release it has been quite lackluster. Again this is an area where ESO could learn a ton from games like Final Fantasy online. Their housing setup is outstanding and highly customizable for everyone In the guild since everyone has an option to buy their own instanced room which they can decorate however. Furnishings aren’t ridiculous like ESO to acquire or craft either. It’s an enjoyable experience, but again FF has extreme depth whereas ESO does not hence the current housing situation. Housing is a chore and way to tedious and convoluted. They keep coming out with new houses but they just miss the mark and the furnishings and building system really needs an overhaul and some depth added to it to make things much more customizable in an easier but more expansive

    There are of course plenty of other reasons but this post is long enough for now.

    Can you talk more about what depth means to you? This was a great post by the way.

    Also, is ESO actually failing? Last I heard it was quite popular.
    Edited by psychotrip on September 17, 2019 12:40PM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • TelvanniWizard
    TelvanniWizard
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    Casterial wrote: »
    In their eyes its not, for us old players it is. Why? The game 13 million players! We're like the last 1%, ZOS doesn't really care about us as much, its more about newer players, and new experiences. Gotta market around 99% not 1%

    13 million accounts, not active players. Those are probably less than a million.

    Well, it's known monthly users worldwide is close to 3 million so your bias is showing.

    For everyone else... It's really easy to live in an echo chamber of friends and assume the majority thinks as your small circle thinks. Reality is never the same though for well, anything.

    Where did you get those numbers?
  • Ozazz
    Ozazz
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    lol eso is failing because they've encroached on the pvp community too much with their cater to casual business approach! those are the hard fact's and player population through the years, how it's regressed, would validate it!
  • Runkorko
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  • nafensoriel
    nafensoriel
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    Casterial wrote: »
    In their eyes its not, for us old players it is. Why? The game 13 million players! We're like the last 1%, ZOS doesn't really care about us as much, its more about newer players, and new experiences. Gotta market around 99% not 1%

    13 million accounts, not active players. Those are probably less than a million.

    Well, it's known monthly users worldwide is close to 3 million so your bias is showing.

    For everyone else... It's really easy to live in an echo chamber of friends and assume the majority thinks as your small circle thinks. Reality is never the same though for well, anything.

    Where did you get those numbers?

    The president of the company. 2017 interview stated 2.5m/m. Public statements at events in 2018 stated 3m/m.
    It's been talked about on these very forums for a while in dozens upon dozens of threads. People still think the game has a 100k population because it serves their bias.

    Don't worry. It's ok to not believe the numbers. It's the vogue thing to do now anyway to discard anything that doesn't support the predetermined hypothesis.
  • Stratti
    Stratti
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    When you say toxic this is what I hear -

    I get told off in 4 mans because my dps is so low/ heals so bad that it makes life difficult.

    I expect to be carried and take it to heart when someone points out that your build isnt working well.
  • Inaya
    Inaya
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    Vanos444 wrote: »
    I started playing about 3 months ago with three of my friends. Before we knew it, there were about 8 of us altogether!

    Some of us play more than others, but we all love it. There's so much to do, you can't possibly do it all. At first I focussed on doing 4-man dungeons as a healer, and levelling all of the crafting professions to 50. But lately I've been doing the zone quests, which are actually really good. Way better than WoW quests. And I've been trading a lot on the guild traders, so that I have about 1 million gold now.

    But my brother, who spends almost as much time online as I do, does none of that. He just does delves and dolmens, and then furnishes his house. The fact that we can both spend so much time on the game while doing none of the same content is testament to how rich this game is.

    Anyway, we love it. I haven't been this excited about a game since vanilla WoW, and I think I can say the same for my friends. It's not all bad!

    The funny thing is that you can do it in other mmorpg as well, the same thing you and your brother coulld, for free like for example housing. FFXIV is one the games that allows you to do housing in an advance level. It's a pure PvE game, that's known for it's Quality instead of it's quantity. By which players are happy with the FFXIV devs for their motivation, dedication and inspiration to the game.

    Nope not funny at all. If they wanted to try FFXIV they would.

    It's good that you're enjoying TESO at present but it's also bad for not trying other games for what it offers, as they might bring more to the table by which you would rejoice with happiness. Well, it's up to you to decide whether try those games instead of being stuck in a game that offers less for its worth, very soon you will realize it.

    What? So because you have a gripe it's bad that those of us that are having a great time with ESO are enjoying ourselves? IWho are you to decide?

    To me TESO, was my first mmorpg that I took seriously back in 2015 but slowly it's diminishing in Quality. So, I know it will diminish further because the idea itself is a flop. The devs are forced to make content the restricts their creative idea because of the TES lore. It's like TESO shouldn't have been an MMORPG in the first place like it's initial launch and with time it's proved to be just that....

    They said they are happy aned excited about the game, as am I. Why can't you just leave it at that?

    My first MMO was FFXI. I've also played EQ2, FFXIV and WOW from vanilla up until about a year ago so it appears that I have a little more experience with MMO's than you. LOL. I know what's out there. I know I can choose to play whatever I want. Right now I'm loving ESO and I don't need you to tell me it's bad or treat me like I'm oblivious to what the MMO world has to offer.
    Edited by Inaya on September 17, 2019 1:29PM
  • chrightt
    chrightt
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    When I read the trash that is FF14 has a lot of what not yata yata .... has extreme depth?! Holy &;&($/@;$;&/ what am I reading lmao. I’m not sure you’re using the right word or even know what you’re talking about. ESO’s gear selection is not only more varied, even the skill choices as it is are. The gameplay has a higher ceiling especially in PVP. FF14 is a freaking joke of a game. If you’re talking about higher end dungeons, sure ESO can be more friendly, but there are still quite a few difficult trials. Depth is not how much different levels of difficulty a game can throw at you.

    ESO also thrives at providing a much better pvp than FF14 hands down. I’m guessing I should just stop here because you either don’t pvp or don’t care about it seeing how your points would only make more sense if you’re talking strictly about pve. As someone said, you must really like FF14 lmao, just go back and play the game that is infamous for its horrible leveling process so much so that they milk players for directly buying a max level char.
  • Runkorko
    Runkorko
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    Casterial wrote: »
    In their eyes its not, for us old players it is. Why? The game 13 million players! We're like the last 1%, ZOS doesn't really care about us as much, its more about newer players, and new experiences. Gotta market around 99% not 1%

    13 million accounts, not active players. Those are probably less than a million.

    Well, it's known monthly users worldwide is close to 3 million so your bias is showing.

    For everyone else... It's really easy to live in an echo chamber of friends and assume the majority thinks as your small circle thinks. Reality is never the same though for well, anything.

    Where did you get those numbers?

    The president of the company. 2017 interview stated 2.5m/m. Public statements at events in 2018 stated 3m/m.
    It's been talked about on these very forums for a while in dozens upon dozens of threads. People still think the game has a 100k population because it serves their bias.

    Don't worry. It's ok to not believe the numbers. It's the vogue thing to do now anyway to discard anything that doesn't support the predetermined hypothesis.

    https://imgur.com/a/bSpwvc4
    what hypothesis you mumble about ?
    i dont say the game is bad. i`m here because i like it.
    but numbers are not great
    Edited by Runkorko on September 17, 2019 1:31PM
  • TelvanniWizard
    TelvanniWizard
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    Casterial wrote: »
    In their eyes its not, for us old players it is. Why? The game 13 million players! We're like the last 1%, ZOS doesn't really care about us as much, its more about newer players, and new experiences. Gotta market around 99% not 1%

    13 million accounts, not active players. Those are probably less than a million.

    Well, it's known monthly users worldwide is close to 3 million so your bias is showing.

    For everyone else... It's really easy to live in an echo chamber of friends and assume the majority thinks as your small circle thinks. Reality is never the same though for well, anything.

    Where did you get those numbers?

    The president of the company. 2017 interview stated 2.5m/m. Public statements at events in 2018 stated 3m/m.
    It's been talked about on these very forums for a while in dozens upon dozens of threads. People still think the game has a 100k population because it serves their bias.

    Don't worry. It's ok to not believe the numbers. It's the vogue thing to do now anyway to discard anything that doesn't support the predetermined hypothesis.

    Do you realize that playercount during events is higher than normal? Also, drop that condescendig tone, man.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/491621/13-million-players-and-counting#latest
  • nafensoriel
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    Do you realize that playercount during events is higher than normal? Also, drop that condescendig tone, man.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/491621/13-million-players-and-counting#latest

    It's not condescension its exasperation. It doesn't matter how often or detailed you explain how MMO player numbers work every single MMO has 100k people and is dying according to their forums. It's a misconception of how individuals see crowds and honestly just basic psychology. Monthly users are traditionally averaged. If it's 3m/m it's over more than one month. It's an accurate representation of active players. There is exactly ZERO reasons for a company president to lie about such figures. If they did SOMEONE with beef in the company would out them for it. It's human nature.

    I ain't going to do the whole post thing again but point-blank reality facts. If a ZONE in ESO has between 25 and 800 people in it PER HOUR(which they all do) the game will EASILY hit 500k per platform/nationality(6 total servers remember?).

    It's biased to think the game is dying because you, the player, can NEVER SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE. No matter how many friends you have or how much you play you will never at any point in time see more than a fraction of the total players. Server instancing and different platforms explicitly prohibit you from ever being able to eyeball a census.

    It's also why posts like the OP occur. People live in a biased small fraction community and assume because everyone they known thinks like they do that suddenly everyone they don't talk to shares the same opinion. Even our conversation on the forums suffer the same exact echo chamber issues. Forums, historically, only account for 5-20% of a video games population at best.

    This is why contrary to what the forums say regularly, the game is continuing to grow, the sky is not falling, and people will adapt.
  • nafensoriel
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    https://imgur.com/a/bSpwvc4
    what hypothesis you mumble about ?
    i dont say the game is bad. i`m here because i like it.
    but numbers are not great
    Since forums account for tiny fractions of the population as a whole the fact that over 150k people are on these forums should be a clue.

  • tallenn
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    I don't see how ESO is failing at all. I see other players literally everywhere I go. I just started playing again about a month ago, and I don't believe I've found anywhere is this absolutely massive game world without other players in it. Doesn't matter how far out of the way- I run into other people.

    If the game is dying, it's certainly not due to lack of players.
  • Rave the Histborn
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    Hotel6 wrote: »
    Arent they actually have more players than ever?

    There will always more players then ever, that happens every time someone buys the game and creates a toon. You want more active players.
  • Sennecca
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    Kaunas wrote: »
    As a somewhat new player i dont see what the fuss is about.. honestly. Yeah the devs do some questionable choises and sometimes ignore the communities concerns from what ive noticed, but the "base game" stands strong for what it is. Dunno am having fun yano

    Because you are a newer player perhaps, you may not have experienced the slew of buff a skill, debuff the same skill you buffed last patch. change the function of a skill one patch, then change it to something else the next patch. Farm gear so u can take advantage of the new patch direction to have all that gear, time spent farming it and gold upgrading it burned for nothing. let alone putting together a build, a rotation to have to do that all over again in 3 months.

    just as an example from a few patches ago:

    Ash cloud: 5.0Ash Cloud: Increased healing of this ability by approximately 15%.

    5.1 decreased the healing of this ability by 30% increased the cost to 5670 from 4590
    5.0 Drain Power: Increased the damage of this ability and the Sap Essence morph by 25% to adhere it to our PBAoE damage standards. Ability and Sap Essence now grant Major Sorcery, rather than Brutality, to better represent the scaling mechanisms the skills use.
    Power Extraction (morph): Increased the damage of this ability by 20%. This ability continues to grant Major Brutality.

    5.1Power Extraction (morph): This morph no longer increases the damage dealt of the attack, but instead reduces the Weapon Damage of enemies hit by 300 Weapon Damage for 8 seconds.
    5.0 Razor Caltrops (morph):
    This morph no longer snares enemies hit upon the initial hit. Instead, the initial hit deals as much damage as an instant cast AoE spammable ability (approximately 350% damage increase for the initial hit).
    Adjusted this ability to follow our standardized Damage over Time ruleset. Added a 1 second delay between then initial hit and the first tick, and increased the damage per tick by approximately 8% to make up for the loss of the first tick.

    5.1 Reduced the base cost to 2984 from 3510.
    Increased the snare potency to 50% from 30%.
    Reduced the damage per tick by approximately 60%, and decreased the duration to 10 seconds from 12 seconds. These changes apply to all morphs.
    Caltrops now ranks up in 1.1% damage per rank, rather than reducing in cost.

    Razor Caltrops (morph): This ability no longer deals initial hit damage, but instead applies Major Fracture to enemies hit by the DoT, up to 4 seconds at Rank IV.

    Now we have the latest set of skills buffed/debuffed/changed/made useless/made overpowered. Example this patch. Dk's are a dot class. almost all of their abilities are dots. and the cost goes up. this patch hits them very hard. Wardens who perhaps have one of the broadest set of skills to add to group play get yet another. A small pebble is thrown to sorcerors who have the least group utility in the game with hardly a buff or debuff by giving them back what they took away from mag sorcs and making one of their MUST have useless ability spots they had to have on their bar to do damage a function. Onslaught is extremely overpowered and they nerfed dizzying swing.

    Edited to add: this has been going on for over a year now. not just once or twice. Some of the same skills have been hit with buffs/debuffs/change functions/change costs for one year or more and that doesn't include the ppl who made a class with racial passives in mind who got hit with a complete change to those passives and got 3 free race change tokens after the patch which they put towards the 3 characters they played the most. if they played more, they had to buy tokens or live with a class that didn't have the passives they made the toon for.
    Edited by Sennecca on September 17, 2019 2:59PM
  • Enemy-of-Coldharbour
    Enemy-of-Coldharbour
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    But,
    bjQ8Tzp.png
    Silivren (Silly) Thalionwen | Altmer Templar | Magicka | 9-Trait Master Crafter/Jeweler | Master Angler | PVE Main - Killed by U35
    Jahsul at-Sahan | Redguard Sorcerer | Stamina | Werewolf - Free Bites | PVP Main
    Derrok Gunnolf | Redguard Dragonknight | Stamina | Werewolf - Free Bites
    Liliana Littleleaf | 9-Trait Grand Master Crafter/Jeweler (non-combat)
    Amber Emberheart | Breton Dragonknight | Stamina | Master Angler
    Vlos Anon | Dunmer Nightblade | Magicka | Vampire - Free Bites
    Kalina Valos | Dunmer Warden | Magicka | Vampire - Free Bites
    Swiftpaws-Moonshadow | Khajiit Nightblade | Stamina
    Morgul Vardar | Altmer Necromancer | Magicka
    Tithin Geil | Altmer Sorceress | Magicka
    Dhryk | Imperial Dragonknight | Stamina

    Guild Master - ESO Traders Union
    PC/NA - CP 2480+
  • Davor
    Davor
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    I hope @KillingUGirl you are doing better now.
    Not my quote but I love this saying

    "I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    Its not failing.
    CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • Dinokstrun
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    I can't really see ESO being on deaths door but you cannot deny that the game is in a state of despair. The majority seem to bemoan everything these days because ZoS constantly subvert the player base expectations every seasonal update with out of control wild changes. Hardcore players are concern with the direction the game is heading and they're right to do so.
  • khajiitNPC
    khajiitNPC
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    Talk about blinders. Maybe try hanging out with people outside your comfort zone. In a majority of the guilds I belong to we’ve seen a large influx of new players. Sure some oldies leave from time to time but they typically come back.

    A lot of new games have come out lately, school just got back in, look for posts around this time last year and you’ll see the same trend.
  • Pheefs
    Pheefs
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    Bleakrock/Kenarthi/Stros still seem kinda busy... just sayin

    B)
    { Forums are Weird........................ Nerfy nerfing nerf nerfers, buff you b'netches!....................... Popcorn popcorn! }
  • Rungar
    Rungar
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    i don't think eso on the whole is failing in any way. I do feel though that they have failed to improve on their base game dungeons and also failed to provide a generally fair combat system.

    if they would bother to properly evaluate the sources of these two grievous wounds the game would be improved tremendously.
  • p00tx
    p00tx
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    Casterial wrote: »
    In their eyes its not, for us old players it is. Why? The game 13 million players! We're like the last 1%, ZOS doesn't really care about us as much, its more about newer players, and new experiences. Gotta market around 99% not 1%

    But that’s just it there really isn’t a place for new players in this game. They should be marketing them Bringing in fresh blood absolutely. But they are failing miserably at that and have created an environment that actually drives new players away. I try to grab as many new players as I can in my guild and help them out best I can but it’s tough for them. The game isn’t being catered to new players it’s being catered to the old crabby worn out players who need to move on.

    I think you're both half correct. They're not marketing this game to new players who have been gaming a long time (old gamers). They're developing it for the casual new player who is wowed by sparkley new stuff and simple parlor tricks in games and basically survives and thrives on the dopamine release brought on by achieving just "one more level" or getting that apex mount out of one of their 300 crown crates. Serious gamers require serious commitment to proper game design, and it's far cheaper and more efficient to just get rid of that demographic and cater to the Candy Crush crowd. The share holders ultimately make the rules, and they don't care whether or not we like the game or whether it really works, as long as the money keeps flowing in with a quarterly increase gained by any means possible, including duping end-gamers into buying skill lines for a new class that will be rendered completely useless for serious content within a couple of months. Whoops.
    Edited by p00tx on September 17, 2019 10:12PM
    PC/Xbox NA
    Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero
  • max_only
    max_only
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    Eso isn’t failing. They are continuing the Year of the Cat and have record sales. Nothing you have to say can be heard over the internet’s obsession with cats.
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • Jeremy
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    I’ve been playing ESO since a month after its release. I fell in love with it and spent thousands of hours adventuring through all of Tamriel. I have been very ill the last 5 years and have mostly been confined to a bed or chair so I unfortunately have a lot of time on my hands and playing ESO really helped pass a lot of that time. Over the years though I have watched as the game really started to go down hill. I think ESO suffers from many pitfalls just like other gaming developers seem susceptible to. There is whining and there is constructive feedback, I am just trying to present feedback that might actually help improve the game. Sorry if this sounds like a rant that is not my intention just sad to see this game being driven into the ground by dumb decisions.

    Useless Nerfs/Gear/Builds - First, the game has way too many changes and useless additions. Again catering to those that have been here forever they constantly need to come out with new stuff and make constant changes to keep people interested. This is fine to a certain extent but enough is enough. Eventually you just give up and go play something else.
    Just when you finally get your build and gear right it becomes irrelevant and you have to start all over, delete or rework characters, buy more slots, change races, sacrifice your first born to Stendar etc. The game quickly becomes about chasing gear and not about actually playing and enjoying the game anymore. But yet new sets are always popping up, and nerfs and balances are constantly happening. At a normal job if you can’t get it right after a few months your fired, you would think eventually they would at least come close to getting the balance right but they don’t. Maybe we should fire them. But in reality I believe all of that is intended, in some sick, perverse way I think they think it actually keeps people interested in the game, or maybe it just drives them to spend. Or maybe the devs are just sick sadistic SOB’s that enjoy tormenting their player base.
    Then a new class will emerge and everyone will love it because it actually starts to have the game playability that everyone is looking for and then they will nerf it into the ground for the next 6 months until it is dead. People will eventually become disheartened and overwhelmed with trying to keep up. The game should be actually enjoyable. You should be able to play the content, experience it and have fun and not constantly have to change your build, your gear and your character, etc. It’s just not fun. ESO isn’t about enjoying the content, it’s about chasing gear and adjusting builds, sad. A lot of people I know put a lot of time and effort into perfecting their builds only to have them torn apart the moment they are finished. I can’t tell you how many players I know that have been faithful ESO Plus members eventually just get so disheartened after dealing with this for years that they leave because they can’t even enjoy the ESO they fell in love with. This zaps the life right out of the game.

    Toxicity - Second of all I’ve seen this happen a dozen times at least with games. Eventually all the main players become maxed, they become bored, then they start roving around like thuggish gangs harassing and trolling everyone. ESO has been no exception here. And unfortunately most devs start dictating their decision to appease this player group, when in reality for the health of their game they should just let them go. They are like a cancer, cut it off so the the rest can survive. But all too often they do not and eventually these thugs start driving everyone away, especially new players. And of course not every high level player fits this bill and there are plenty of low level trolls as well but overall, there is a distinct group of 810’s that are just bored, hostile and mean and if you don’t fit into their clique they will harass, bully and drive you away.

    Greed - So many Devs go wrong here. Their games have been out for years and they start to feel the pressure to have new content etc or they will start to lose people. Unfortunately most games then self destruct with solutions that always involve people having to spend more money. Until eventually, people just leave. In reality most devs actually drive players away and destroy their own games with stupid decisions meant to save their games and make more money. Along those lines, the items in the crown store are just plain stupid as far as pricing goes. If you are an ESO plus member they are already getting a considerable amount of money for you every year, plus the amount you paid for the game itself. A lot of the items in crown store should be a fraction of the cost. So many devs want more money but go about it all wrong. Look at Fortnite, one of the most successful and prosperous games to date, period. You never get the feeling playing it that they have you over a barrel, or you have to spend a ridiculous amount of money to make the game easier, or to advance. In fact you don’t mind spending in Fortnite at all. And if you don’t want to spend, then don’t. It’s a great business model that is wildly successful but others go the route like ESO where you feel this constant pull on you, squeezing you and shaking you down for every last cent. This may work for a short while but eventually people move away.

    Listen to your community - most devs miss this one or just listen to a certain group of players. In fact, sometimes you get the impression that a lot of devs are purposely driving away the majority of their players, which tells me there is a serious disconnect between the two parties. If you are constantly doing the opposite of what the majority of your community is saying, that tells me either your not listening, don’t care or are wanting to drive them away. Zenimax is famous for this as well as Bethesda in their other games. Or they cater the majority of their decisions to the veteran squeaky wheel who whines the most. Huge mistake.

    Depth - this is the number one game killer. Without depth, developers are forced to do basically what ESO does, sell expensive crown store content. Depth sustains a game giving it long life, ESO in a lot of ways however is very shallow. Hence we must have a new area or a harder area, or a new mount or a new this or a new that, this is ok, but unfortunately the new content is a dull, boring, lifeless re-skinned version of all the other content we’ve already seen. I’ve said for years that ESO is like a dumbed down arcade version of Final Fantasy online. I love ESO but for the most part this is true. FF has extreme depth whereas ESO only scratches the surface. This however may be an unsolvable issue at this point since it’s the foundation the game is built upon. If you have no depth, people get bored, if people get bored you have to offer them new items to buy in crown store...maybe this is by design.

    RNG - most players I know like to have hard work rewarded. That’s why gamers are such good grinders, they are going towards a goal, working towards something they want to attain. In ESO however, RNG rules. While there are things you can just grind out which are fantastic. For the most part however RNG has way to big of a role. For instance I played for 8 straight months doing nothing but looting (dedicated looting didn’t do any other content) everything possible spot in the game at least 10 hours a day. Then I spent another 3 months doing nothing but pickpocketing every known hotspot, routes etc., this coupled with the fact that I played for over three years looting every single container I ever came across in a dungeon delve, bank, house etc. and doing writs on my maxed crafters daily. At the end of all this time I had a
    a handful of purple recipes, and 2 psijic parts, and three throne praxis, and one master writ worth doing. That’s it. Nothing else valuable to speak of. Then my friend who had been playing 2 months loots 2 full book gold motifs, after a few attempts. This is a perfect example of things needing to be addressed. I get RNG has a role but people should also be rewarded for hard work. There should be a way that your RNG becomes higher as you level and progress. After you have put a ton of effort your chances must increase. Otherwise it just becomes disheartening again. I mean who wants to play the game for that long without reward to show for it. The things that you can grind out are great. Like the Indrik mounts people whine about, at least you can put a ton of effort into and get it. Even the welkynar motifs as ridiculous as that whole setup is at least if you put a lot of extra effort and time, eventually there will be a reward. After three years plus of looting, I’m like “What’s the point?” Games are more successful when people can grind out a goal period. Even if it’s a ridiculous grind. The RNG in this game need a rework or at least a progression increase of your chances the longer you play.

    Housing - we all waited a long time for housing and ever since it’s release it has been quite lackluster. Again this is an area where ESO could learn a ton from games like Final Fantasy online. Their housing setup is outstanding and highly customizable for everyone In the guild since everyone has an option to buy their own instanced room which they can decorate however. Furnishings aren’t ridiculous like ESO to acquire or craft either. It’s an enjoyable experience, but again FF has extreme depth whereas ESO does not hence the current housing situation. Housing is a chore and way to tedious and convoluted. They keep coming out with new houses but they just miss the mark and the furnishings and building system really needs an overhaul and some depth added to it to make things much more customizable in an easier but more expansive

    There are of course plenty of other reasons but this post is long enough for now.

    Final Fantasy 14 has no depth. Every class plays basically the same as each other. There is no variety in abilities, no player customization, no room for experimentation or player creation. The depth of my White Mage when soloing consist of using Dia then spamming Glare. You could barely even describe that game has having classes at all - whether you are just bland cogs on some wheel meant to perform a single programmed function. That game has literally the least depth of any MMO I have ever played. This isn't even to mention the total lack of interesting gear options and over reliance on dodging red shapes on the ground, which basically describes nearly every fight on that game. The crafting on that game has a 100x more depth the combat system does.

    The housing system is as well abysmal. If you take a break from the game you literally lose your house. How stupid is that? I've lost millions on that game due to that nonsense. Character progression also dries up very quickly and I was out of things to do after a month or two aside from grinding the same 3 dungeons over and over for what ever new tome stone they released so I could afford unimpressive and slight gear upgrades. ESO has so much more depth than Final Fantasy 14 they aren't even comparable.

    Now the game does have good graphics, animation - and runs very well. It also has a decent story and some cool characters. So Final Fantasy 14 is not without its strengths. But "depth" is certainly not among them. The game is about as shallow as they come.
    Edited by Jeremy on September 17, 2019 10:35PM
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