Why ESO is Failing

MehrunesFlagon

Deathlord92 wrote: »

It’s as I said in another thread I haven’t enjoyed eso since they butchered stamblade.

My Stamcro replaced my Stmablade.

kirgeo

I agree with some of your points. It does feel like the ESO world/gameplay is shallow. Not sure how to if it can be fixed.
FFXIV has some good points, the crafting feels better than ESO. Combat in ESO is much better than FFXIV of WoW but its a MMO so not sure how much depth can be added to it if the engine will even allow it.

Vapirko

Whatever any of us feel about this game and it’s changes, I really don’t think it’s failing. In terms of generating money and overall population it seems fine.

As much as we want it to be different, upper tier, skill based PvPers and serious endgame PvErs are a small subset of ESO. I really disagree with lowering the ceiling but most people don’t. Most PvPers want to run around in big groups and feel powerful without investing hours into learning how to really play their class. And most PvErs don’t want to perfect their rotations and think that people who can hit those upper tier numbers are lying or cheating.

It’s not failing, it’s appealing to the largest segment of its user base who aren’t affected by most of the things discussed on this forum.

SosRuvaak

theyve become corrupt, however i dont remember zenimax ever listening well to their community, and when they did it was never the way the community wants, but a 'zenitwist'.
ignorance always makes things crumble in the worst ways.

Taloros

@KillingUGirl
Great post. And I feel for you. Feel hugged - all the best for you.

Aixy

@KillingUGirl

Great post but i´m not sure about "eso is failing"... check steamcharts website and find The Elder Scrolls Online... yes from June 2019 - September 2019 they are losing players BUT check what is happening since 2014 - 2019.-

O: !!!!

They have more players than ever !!

IwakuraLain42

Jeremy wrote: »

Final Fantasy 14 has no depth. Every class plays basically the same as each other. There is no variety in abilities, no player customization, no room for experimentation or player creation. The depth of my White Mage when soloing consist of using Dia then spamming Glare. You could barely even describe that game has having classes at all - whether you are just bland cogs on some wheel meant to perform a single programmed function. That game has literally the least depth of any MMO I have ever played. This isn't even to mention the total lack of interesting gear options and over reliance on dodging red shapes on the ground, which basically describes nearly every fight on that game. The crafting on that game has a 100x more depth the combat system does.

That is simply not true, or are you really trying to tell me that my Bard plays the same way that my Black Mage or Dragoon plays ? Just because they changed the dps aspect of the healers this patch doesn't make it so for everyone else.
Yes, the classes are fixed and change only every 2 years, but I (and a lot of players) actually enjoy playing (new) content without having to regear/relearn our classes every 3 months because the developer changes them do drastically ?

Jeremy wrote: »

The housing system is as well abysmal. If you take a break from the game you literally lose your house. How stupid is that? I've lost millions on that game due to that nonsense. Character progression also dries up very quickly and I was out of things to do after a month or two aside from grinding the same 3 dungeons over and over for what ever new tome stone they released so I could afford unimpressive and slight gear upgrades. ESO has so much more depth than Final Fantasy 14 they aren't even comparable.

The housing system in FF14 is worse then the one in ESO, agreed, but the rest ? If you are only gearing via tomestones with the 1-2 new dungeons every patch then you are ignoring the rest of the content like trials, raids, treasure dungeons, Eureka, etc. Comparing to the content Zos releases (reskinned Chapter every year with a trial that on vet virtually noone can clear, 2 Dungons every half year that are also virtually unclearable by the majority of the playerbase om vet) the game has a lot more depth.

DaNnYtHePcFrEaK

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

tuxon wrote: »

Because of Crownstore

You have nothing else to say?
The only thing zos do well is crown store.
ZoS is "failing" because the lack of comunication with the comunity.
Like zero....

I agree, nearly 3 years playing and all I see is "closed for non constructive comments" it's like they are socially awkward kids not a multi million dollar team

Vajrak

I wish I was "failing" as hard as ESO is. My wallet would be thrilled. With that said, I'd like to address your points, from my perspective of course, just as your post is from yours.

KillingUGirl wrote: »

I’ve been playing ESO since a month after its release. I fell in love with it and spent thousands of hours adventuring through all of Tamriel. I have been very ill the last 5 years and have mostly been confined to a bed or chair so I unfortunately have a lot of time on my hands and playing ESO really helped pass a lot of that time. Over the years though I have watched as the game really started to go down hill. I think ESO suffers from many pitfalls just like other gaming developers seem susceptible to. There is whining and there is constructive feedback, I am just trying to present feedback that might actually help improve the game. Sorry if this sounds like a rant that is not my intention just sad to see this game being driven into the ground by dumb decisions.

Useless Nerfs/Gear/Builds - First, the game has way too many changes and useless additions. Again catering to those that have been here forever they constantly need to come out with new stuff and make constant changes to keep people interested. This is fine to a certain extent but enough is enough. Eventually you just give up and go play something else.
Just when you finally get your build and gear right it becomes irrelevant and you have to start all over, delete or rework characters, buy more slots, change races, sacrifice your first born to Stendar etc. The game quickly becomes about chasing gear and not about actually playing and enjoying the game anymore. But yet new sets are always popping up, and nerfs and balances are constantly happening. At a normal job if you can’t get it right after a few months your fired, you would think eventually they would at least come close to getting the balance right but they don’t. Maybe we should fire them. But in reality I believe all of that is intended, in some sick, perverse way I think they think it actually keeps people interested in the game, or maybe it just drives them to spend. Or maybe the devs are just sick sadistic SOB’s that enjoy tormenting their player base.
Then a new class will emerge and everyone will love it because it actually starts to have the game playability that everyone is looking for and then they will nerf it into the ground for the next 6 months until it is dead. People will eventually become disheartened and overwhelmed with trying to keep up. The game should be actually enjoyable. You should be able to play the content, experience it and have fun and not constantly have to change your build, your gear and your character, etc. It’s just not fun. ESO isn’t about enjoying the content, it’s about chasing gear and adjusting builds, sad. A lot of people I know put a lot of time and effort into perfecting their builds only to have them torn apart the moment they are finished. I can’t tell you how many players I know that have been faithful ESO Plus members eventually just get so disheartened after dealing with this for years that they leave because they can’t even enjoy the ESO they fell in love with. This zaps the life right out of the game.

Toxicity - Second of all I’ve seen this happen a dozen times at least with games. Eventually all the main players become maxed, they become bored, then they start roving around like thuggish gangs harassing and trolling everyone. ESO has been no exception here. And unfortunately most devs start dictating their decision to appease this player group, when in reality for the health of their game they should just let them go. They are like a cancer, cut it off so the the rest can survive. But all too often they do not and eventually these thugs start driving everyone away, especially new players. And of course not every high level player fits this bill and there are plenty of low level trolls as well but overall, there is a distinct group of 810’s that are just bored, hostile and mean and if you don’t fit into their clique they will harass, bully and drive you away.

Greed - So many Devs go wrong here. Their games have been out for years and they start to feel the pressure to have new content etc or they will start to lose people. Unfortunately most games then self destruct with solutions that always involve people having to spend more money. Until eventually, people just leave. In reality most devs actually drive players away and destroy their own games with stupid decisions meant to save their games and make more money. Along those lines, the items in the crown store are just plain stupid as far as pricing goes. If you are an ESO plus member they are already getting a considerable amount of money for you every year, plus the amount you paid for the game itself. A lot of the items in crown store should be a fraction of the cost. So many devs want more money but go about it all wrong. Look at Fortnite, one of the most successful and prosperous games to date, period. You never get the feeling playing it that they have you over a barrel, or you have to spend a ridiculous amount of money to make the game easier, or to advance. In fact you don’t mind spending in Fortnite at all. And if you don’t want to spend, then don’t. It’s a great business model that is wildly successful but others go the route like ESO where you feel this constant pull on you, squeezing you and shaking you down for every last cent. This may work for a short while but eventually people move away.

Listen to your community - most devs miss this one or just listen to a certain group of players. In fact, sometimes you get the impression that a lot of devs are purposely driving away the majority of their players, which tells me there is a serious disconnect between the two parties. If you are constantly doing the opposite of what the majority of your community is saying, that tells me either your not listening, don’t care or are wanting to drive them away. Zenimax is famous for this as well as Bethesda in their other games. Or they cater the majority of their decisions to the veteran squeaky wheel who whines the most. Huge mistake.

Depth - this is the number one game killer. Without depth, developers are forced to do basically what ESO does, sell expensive crown store content. Depth sustains a game giving it long life, ESO in a lot of ways however is very shallow. Hence we must have a new area or a harder area, or a new mount or a new this or a new that, this is ok, but unfortunately the new content is a dull, boring, lifeless re-skinned version of all the other content we’ve already seen. I’ve said for years that ESO is like a dumbed down arcade version of Final Fantasy online. I love ESO but for the most part this is true. FF has extreme depth whereas ESO only scratches the surface. This however may be an unsolvable issue at this point since it’s the foundation the game is built upon. If you have no depth, people get bored, if people get bored you have to offer them new items to buy in crown store...maybe this is by design.

RNG - most players I know like to have hard work rewarded. That’s why gamers are such good grinders, they are going towards a goal, working towards something they want to attain. In ESO however, RNG rules. While there are things you can just grind out which are fantastic. For the most part however RNG has way to big of a role. For instance I played for 8 straight months doing nothing but looting (dedicated looting didn’t do any other content) everything possible spot in the game at least 10 hours a day. Then I spent another 3 months doing nothing but pickpocketing every known hotspot, routes etc., this coupled with the fact that I played for over three years looting every single container I ever came across in a dungeon delve, bank, house etc. and doing writs on my maxed crafters daily. At the end of all this time I had a
a handful of purple recipes, and 2 psijic parts, and three throne praxis, and one master writ worth doing. That’s it. Nothing else valuable to speak of. Then my friend who had been playing 2 months loots 2 full book gold motifs, after a few attempts. This is a perfect example of things needing to be addressed. I get RNG has a role but people should also be rewarded for hard work. There should be a way that your RNG becomes higher as you level and progress. After you have put a ton of effort your chances must increase. Otherwise it just becomes disheartening again. I mean who wants to play the game for that long without reward to show for it. The things that you can grind out are great. Like the Indrik mounts people whine about, at least you can put a ton of effort into and get it. Even the welkynar motifs as ridiculous as that whole setup is at least if you put a lot of extra effort and time, eventually there will be a reward. After three years plus of looting, I’m like “What’s the point?” Games are more successful when people can grind out a goal period. Even if it’s a ridiculous grind. The RNG in this game need a rework or at least a progression increase of your chances the longer you play.

Housing - we all waited a long time for housing and ever since it’s release it has been quite lackluster. Again this is an area where ESO could learn a ton from games like Final Fantasy online. Their housing setup is outstanding and highly customizable for everyone In the guild since everyone has an option to buy their own instanced room which they can decorate however. Furnishings aren’t ridiculous like ESO to acquire or craft either. It’s an enjoyable experience, but again FF has extreme depth whereas ESO does not hence the current housing situation. Housing is a chore and way to tedious and convoluted. They keep coming out with new houses but they just miss the mark and the furnishings and building system really needs an overhaul and some depth added to it to make things much more customizable in an easier but more expansive

There are of course plenty of other reasons but this post is long enough for now.

Useless Nerfs/Gear/Builds - This is blatantly false in what you describe. I've used the same primary set in the game for, very literally, years. My secondary set has changed a few times (Crafted, trials, overland, now trials again, which not seeing much new on the immediate horizon). Crafted to Overland/Trials is...1 step. I've had to chase gear once. I've incidentally acquired many other sets in that time, and yet the core of my build hasn't changed, through all the nerfs, buffs, and meta changes. How can that be? Because I don't play the meta, I play my chosen character, and optimize it for what I want it to do, which means unless something is absolute god-mode new gear, I have no reason to chase it -- and if it IS absolute god-mode new gear, I know better than to chase it, because it will be hit with the hammer-of-nerf soon enough.

Are there useless sets? Eh, I don't know about useless, but extremely niche definitely. Martial Knowledge needs another glance, because the current iteration makes it only useful for PvP, and even there limited use. Para Bellum could use a definite death-stare. But most of the other sets have some reasoning behind them, as they are nice niche things to use while leveling if you opt not to just speed-grind to 50 and then complain that you have nothing to do (because you opted to skip the game).

What you are describing is more a symptom of meta-chase players (and also in my experience, there really aren't that many, as soon as they are made aware there are alternatives to the meta, they have generally enjoyed the game much more. Example: I recently helped guildmates creates a 40k+ dps Nightblade Heavy Attack build, and a 50k+ dps Sorc Archer build. Not the only ones, but the easiest to quantify for others, as displaying tank and healer is a bit harder to show).

Toxicity - Report. Block. Move on. Every game has idiots, there are a lot fewer here than on other games.


Greed - You spend for....Expansions and DLC, and cosmetics...what else? A plus account if you choose, but that is entirely optional. This is another idea here that is just blatantly wrong. Nothing in the crown store is required to advance, nothing in the crown store is required to do so in a reasonable amount of time either.

Listen to your community They have been. Just because they don't jump to the immediate thing the community asks for doesn't mean it isn't progressing towards it. What they, thankfully, don't listen to are the vocal whining minority, at least not generally. And the gameplay has been steady and generally clean because of that.

Depth is extreme in ESO. The lore and little bits here and there are far beyond anything I've seen in other games, so what you are describing isn't a lack of depth, it is a lack of players engaging in the depth because they want to rush to the endgame and measure their e-peen. I'm not talking about the main quest either, I'm talking about the side quests -- the history of the Asha'bah. The origin of the Lamae Bal line of Vampires. The Werewolf Curse of Glenumbra. The Star Gazers. The relationship with the Hist of the Argonians, the wild nature of the Bosmer, hell the awkward love relationship between Lady Laurent and her devoted "I've been captured again!" servant...Every zone has a huge overarching plot, and a lot of small plots with in, which can alter the game world for you just by playing them. Or did you not know you can actually clear MOST of Sentinel from the Ra-Netu? Can clear out several towns/villages from hostile to friendly, or at least passive. Can save, or damn, an entire village to eternal rest or eternal undeath. If by depth you are going by the main quest/dlc main quests only, you've missed a lot of Elder Scrolls, and may want to try playing it again, not just "oh I have to go kill this" but read/listen to the reasons different NPC's have you doing things, and how it effects their world.

RNG in your specific example, months of looting, your reward, if not rare recipes...should have been a healthy amount of gold. Nearly 2 million, in fact. 1 Master Writ "worth doing" --- yeah, Master Writs can have a bit of variance, but at the worst that is something you could have sold. By your own reasoning -- grinding to see something for all your hard work -- you saw something from it, just not what you wanted to see. Hate to break it to you, but that happens. You still got something in the form of gold payouts in general if not a single high value item, and if you need help putting perspective on that, there are people who get 3-4 of those high value motif's and recipes in the same time you spent grinding---and have made no more gold than you did just by looting, because no one is buying it, or by the time it gets bought they are broke again.

Housing is a chore TO YOU. There are entire guilds dedicated to decorating. There are players who engage in the game JUST so that they can get a new house and decorate it. I'm not a member of one of those guilds, but when I do mess with the housing a bit, I enjoy the hell out of it -- maybe because I set a theme for each of my houses and then have to go through multiple steps sometimes to get the things that I want in it.

The TL;DR of your post comes down to "Players who skip the content don't enjoy the game". And that much is true. The rest of this...is tripe.

Sennecca

Aixy wrote: »

@KillingUGirl

Great post but i´m not sure about "eso is failing"... check steamcharts website and find The Elder Scrolls Online... yes from June 2019 - September 2019 they are losing players BUT check what is happening since 2014 - 2019.-

O: !!!!

They have more players than ever !!

What i see on a one year chart is a current avg of 15k players. At this time last year they were averaging 21k players. There has been a steady decline since spring of this year when all of the buff/debuff/change functions of skills/cost of skills down/cost of skills up/ rebuff/then debuff again started.many of the people on my friends lists that were regulars have not logged in for months and i just deleted quite a few that have not logged in in over 5-12 months.

Spear Shards: Increased the damage done by this ability and the Luminous Shards morph by approximately 67%.
Increased the initial hit damage of this ability and its morphs by approximately 36%.
Increased the DoT of this ability and the Luminous Shards morph by approximately 5%.
Increased the base cost to 4950, up from 3024.
Reduced the damage per tick of the Damage over Time portion of this ability and the Luminous Shards morph by approximately 53%
Blazing spear (morph): Increased the initial hit damage of this ability by 10%, but decreased the damage over time by approximately 59% per tick.

When you put all of this together into one big paragraph, it looks like the person who put it together has mood swings and it's just ONE example of what has gone on since the end of last year. Searing strikes went from 1350 cost to 2160 to 2970 in one year increased the dot, then decreased the dot.

I am finding myself playing other games more. I'm tired of all of the 33-60% changes. I only hope that they listen to the players more and test things out more before they release it to live version and more ppl get change fatigue. I post because i really do have a soft spot for the game and hope that the devs will realize that it's not just a few people who are getting worn out by the drastic swings, the loss of class identity in trying to homogenize damage, and the fact that some classes have a toolkit that could almost buff a whole trial, while other classes have next to nothing. I would feel better if they would just hire a bunch of ppl to test the changes and release a finished product rather than introducing drastic swings every 3 months.

Jaimeh

The game has really evolved, we have so many QoL features that we take for granted now, that we could only dream of before, and there's so much content to go through. However, I feel that for older and more experienced players, the issues the combat team has with balancing the classes, and thus making big changes patch after patch, is very tiring and frustrating, and at some point their interest and/or patience will fizz out. I think the game would do so much better if they balanced PvP and PvE separately...

DaveMoeDee

Stratti wrote: »

When you say toxic this is what I hear -

I get told off in 4 mans because my dps is so low/ heals so bad that it makes life difficult.

I expect to be carried and take it to heart when someone points out that your build isnt working well.

I doubt there are many people who expect to be "carried." The less experienced players expect that it will be a challenge. The disconnect with some is that some players enter the dungeon expecting a speed run with no challenge.

It is ironic that we have curmudgeons complaining that bad players are seeking carries while the less experienced players are complaining about quick clears where they feel they aren't given a chance to take part.

And, yes, there are people who can't accept build suggestions. But there are also many players who have no ability to communicate in a constructive manner. They go straight to insults when they don't like someone's weak build. The toxicity isn't from build suggestions. It is from the toxic way of communicating the suggestions/criticisms.

I mean, what kind of person "tells someone off" because their dps/heals are low? Do they not know how to regulate their emotions?

Runkorko

"Why ESO is Failing"

Gravitation?

DaveMoeDee

Vapirko wrote: »

Whatever any of us feel about this game and it’s changes, I really don’t think it’s failing. In terms of generating money and overall population it seems fine.

As much as we want it to be different, upper tier, skill based PvPers and serious endgame PvErs are a small subset of ESO. I really disagree with lowering the ceiling but most people don’t. Most PvPers want to run around in big groups and feel powerful without investing hours into learning how to really play their class. And most PvErs don’t want to perfect their rotations and think that people who can hit those upper tier numbers are lying or cheating.

It’s not failing, it’s appealing to the largest segment of its user base who aren’t affected by most of the things discussed on this forum.

A lot of PvPers are just there for the social aspect. When I have run with PvP guilds. it was all highly social and no one cared much about mano a mano fights. People were more concerned with enjoying each other's company and group accomplishments than they were feeling powerful. If you think about it, you probably don't want people in the military worrying about their personal accomplishments during an engagement.

Rain_Greyraven

Why is it that only idiotic threads hang around for days...

Runkorko

Rain_Greyraven wrote: »

Why is it that only idiotic threads hang around for days...

troll food