InvictusApollo wrote: »Players: Single target DOTs are doing far too much damage in PvP.
ZOS: We hear you. Lets increase AOE dots damage as well.
I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
It is a bad step into the wrong direction. It is a cleary step back to Zerg Gameplay.
The did not say ground AoE dots, do you have more info on this not available in the combat update? Also there’s negative feedback every patch.
Waffennacht wrote: »Instead of constantly calling for adjustments; how about telling us where they should be?
Like should AoE DoTs be 50% less damage than single target DoTs?
Should the totality of a single DoT compare to the totality of a spammable in a single cast?
I keep seeing people being unhappy; but I have no idea where happy would be.
Waffennacht wrote: »Instead of constantly calling for adjustments; how about telling us where they should be?
Like should AoE DoTs be 50% less damage than single target DoTs?
Should the totality of a single DoT compare to the totality of a spammable in a single cast?
I keep seeing people being unhappy; but I have no idea where happy would be.
I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
Your numbers on Entropy-vs-Rending Slashes are off, going by all of the actual in-combat data I've seen since Scalebreaker released. There have been many cases where I've seen Rending Slashes do >= 150% the typical damage of Entropy (which, again, is usually somewhere around 900 - 1.1k/tick in no-CP BGs). Is that only due to certain sets and/or weapons? Perhaps, but that doesn't make it a non-issue, since there aren't any comparable things available to buff up Entropy in the same way.I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
Your numbers on Entropy-vs-Rending Slashes are off, going by all of the actual in-combat data I've seen since Scalebreaker released. There have been many cases where I've seen Rending Slashes do >= 150% the typical damage of Entropy (which, again, is usually somewhere around 900 - 1.1k/tick in no-CP BGs). Is that only due to certain sets and/or weapons? Perhaps, but that doesn't make it a non-issue, since there aren't any comparable things available to buff up Entropy in the same way.I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
That "theme" is consistent across the board when it comes to DOTs, by the way: Stamina DOTs do more damage than their magicka counterparts (even when comparing Soul Trap against itself, since it's possible for Stam builds to get weapon damage numbers that are so much higher). The only exception to this rule is every-other-cast of a Magicka Warden's Fetcher Infection, which can indeed reach some really big damage numbers...50% of the time. 'Course, I see that DOT far less often than I do pretty much any of the rest, including class-specific things like Venomous Claw (which, again, I've seen reach ~150% of Entropy's damage).
It's also worth noting that Poison Injection should be compared against Destructive Reach, rather than Entropy. Both come from weapon lines, and both are basically identical, except that Poison Injection has execute scaling and Destructive Reach doesn't. And Entropy needed some kind of buff, and has for a very long time: prior to Scalebreaker it was liquid garbage compared to Rally or Forward Momentum.
I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
I swear if they nerf entropy magnecro will be back to even worst pvp mag spec than now. It's the only damn reliable thing in a build to damage someone. I guess it will get nerfed since you've been calling this for weeks and they usually listen to that.
And I can post screenshots of actual damage done by various DOTs, if you'd like. Tooltips are all fine and dandy, as long as we control for CP allocation and whatnot, but actual in-game results matter infinitely more. I have yet to see a death recap where generic Magicka DOTs did very much over 1k/tick, whereas I've seen Stamina bleeds for literally more than double that sometimes (9,092 over 4 ticks, for one example).Your numbers on Entropy-vs-Rending Slashes are off, going by all of the actual in-combat data I've seen since Scalebreaker released. There have been many cases where I've seen Rending Slashes do >= 150% the typical damage of Entropy (which, again, is usually somewhere around 900 - 1.1k/tick in no-CP BGs). Is that only due to certain sets and/or weapons? Perhaps, but that doesn't make it a non-issue, since there aren't any comparable things available to buff up Entropy in the same way.I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
That "theme" is consistent across the board when it comes to DOTs, by the way: Stamina DOTs do more damage than their magicka counterparts (even when comparing Soul Trap against itself, since it's possible for Stam builds to get weapon damage numbers that are so much higher). The only exception to this rule is every-other-cast of a Magicka Warden's Fetcher Infection, which can indeed reach some really big damage numbers...50% of the time. 'Course, I see that DOT far less often than I do pretty much any of the rest, including class-specific things like Venomous Claw (which, again, I've seen reach ~150% of Entropy's damage).
It's also worth noting that Poison Injection should be compared against Destructive Reach, rather than Entropy. Both come from weapon lines, and both are basically identical, except that Poison Injection has execute scaling and Destructive Reach doesn't. And Entropy needed some kind of buff, and has for a very long time: prior to Scalebreaker it was liquid garbage compared to Rally or Forward Momentum.
That’s a nice theory. I can post you a screen shot if you want. With about 4K wpn damage and 33k stam on my Stamplar rending is about 19-20k. On my mag DK with about 36k mag on my defensive SB bar with under 3k spell damage my Entropy is 24k. Can’t recall what it is on my offensive bar and never mind what it is once BSW procs. And besides it’s the fact that Entropy is a utility skill and offers way too much now. And I’m so *** tired of the stamina is stronger because weapon damage. It’s just such a dumb, idk anything argument. People way over estimate the amount of weapon damage that the average stamina build has and just ignore the fact that max magicka is always at least a few thousand higher than max stam if not in the rage of 5-8k higher. And I’m only talking about poison injection because it was brought up as over powered. But anyway this discussion isn’t about single target dots which are being nerfed anyway. But I’ll post some screenshot for you later for comparison between a typical mag and stam build.
I hope they meant ground based aoes and not target based aoe dots.
That would be more understandable, although that’s fairly specific and easily said and they didn’t make that distinction. Still though it’s not like any of them really need a buff/cost increase. I’m just curious what their angle is.
I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
I swear if they nerf entropy magnecro will be back to even worst pvp mag spec than now. It's the only damn reliable thing in a build to damage someone. I guess it will get nerfed since you've been calling this for weeks and they usually listen to that.
InvictusApollo wrote: »Players: Single target DOTs are doing far too much damage in PvP.
ZOS: We hear you. Lets increase AOE dots damage as well.
InvictusApollo wrote: »Players: Single target DOTs are doing far too much damage in PvP.
ZOS: We hear you. Lets increase AOE dots damage as well.
Strange, I don't think so and instead find single target direct damage to be doing too much damage. Gee, what a difference in perspective. I wonder what could be the cause?
I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
thankyourat wrote: »I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
It’s definitely a thing and shouldn’t be ignored. The skills are comparable and both do too much damage. if you add in the fact that rending does upfront damage and has one less tic the total damage of the two abilities are basically the same. that’s without factoring axe bleeds or master weapons. In which case the damage of rending would be noticeably higher. What it comes down to is entropy has damage, major sorcery, and a heal where as rending offers damage and a snare or heal depending on the morph you use. So entropy offers one more buff but at the same time it doesn’t offer the damage potential of rending.
Entropy does however have the ability to be stacked with more dots because magicka has a lot more viable dot options than stam even though the strongest abuser of dots currently are dual Wield stam DKs, most other stam classes don’t have strong class base dots. So a nerf to rending would more negatively effect stamina than a nerf to entropy for magicka because rending is the only dot available to most stam classes. I don’t think range vs melee matters much in open world pvp. Overall though the skills are pretty comparable seeing as you are going to get a lot more damage out of rending than you are with entropy.
I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
I swear if they nerf entropy magnecro will be back to even worst pvp mag spec than now. It's the only damn reliable thing in a build to damage someone. I guess it will get nerfed since you've been calling this for weeks and they usually listen to that.
This just seems like a weird thing to argue considering it’s generic. “If we lose entropy, we got nothing!” - argue for the actual class skills to be viable. Both the stupid tethers should be completely reworked for instance.
I’d also be curious to know what this change/reversion is based on? Did I miss some threads asking for more AoE dot damage? I can’t see it being from PvPers and it seems like PvE dps doesn’t need help.
I believe from my understanding they will be tuned in with the single target dots AFTER they are nerfed back to earth. I imagine a 50-60% nerf on things like entropy and soul trap.
So for pve to maintain parse numbers, something has to get buffed. This also comes at no cost of healing tool tips. 12-15k entropy...? 20k rapid/mutegen.
You are missing rending slashes, poison injection in your analysis of overpowered dots. Im sure that was coincidental.
People keep trying to make this a thing. Firstly entropy can’t ever be put in the same category because it’s a utility skill. It offers major sorcery and 2% max mag and mag recovery along with a heal and btw rending slashes might get a 19-20k tooltip while entropy, on top of all the other stuff it does, easily hits 26-30k. Poison injection only ever gets to entropy levels maybe in execute range and that’s all it does. It’s a single target dot only. Put a heal and major brutality on it and maybe you’ll be looking at a comparison. And of course while you could compare rending and soul trap, one is ranged and the other needs to be applied in melee range.
I swear if they nerf entropy magnecro will be back to even worst pvp mag spec than now. It's the only damn reliable thing in a build to damage someone. I guess it will get nerfed since you've been calling this for weeks and they usually listen to that.
This just seems like a weird thing to argue considering it’s generic. “If we lose entropy, we got nothing!” - argue for the actual class skills to be viable. Both the stupid tethers should be completely reworked for instance.
Well considering it is the only source(outside of pots) of a key buff available it does become a defacto magcro skill. Asking magcros to not care about entropy is like asking stamsorcs to not care about dizzy. It's a key part of the class, for better or worse it is the balance method ZoS has gone with to keep weapon skills and guild skills relevant.
No, @ZOS_BrianWheeler is absolutely right!
AoEs in PvP is absolutely rubbish right now. Most of them are stationary and can be avoided relatively easy.
Stationary, but only stationary, AoEs should deal much more damage than they do now, but it sounds fair that it comes at a high resource cost.
If I manage to grab you with my talons or if you walk into my graveyard or step on my deadric mines, it should hurt.
What we don't need a is a buff to mobile AoEs like jabs, sap essence, inhale, whirlwind etc.
I for one am looking forward to this.