Rave the Histborn wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »To be honest, I wish it was even less 'solo PvE' friendly and still stand by the fact that you should HAVE to be risking 10k(5k) or something there to even contribute to flag caps etc.
Yeah, make the baseline PvP experience as painful as possible so it will remain a place just for jerks!
Great idea ZoS, are you paying attention?
Or you could take the time all of them did to become good at pvp.
That is the expectation now. New people need to be good before they can enjoy something and prey on others instead.
I am sure that will work great with a company that wants to get general people involved, right?
Well you're complaining about PVP being painful, god forbid you have to put in the same effort into pvp as you do in pve, but asking to be good at games is too much now. They've made it pretty easy to enjoy the event if you pve without ever having to enter and the city is meant to be pvp so, yes, the expectation is that you pvp. You can join farming groups for sewers and districts if you need safety in numbers so you dont even have to be that good at pvp either. This is also the 4th or 5th IC event and nothing has really changed besides the addition of siege merits. Maybe it's because this is how ZOS inended the area and event.
To be honest, I wish it was even less 'solo PvE' friendly and still stand by the fact that you should HAVE to be risking 10k(5k) or something there to even contribute to flag caps etc.
xeha_arwen11 wrote: »for all you that just got it free and got to experience it first hand how did you like it?
gankers, hunter kill BG groups chasing down solo pve players, raids hiding in stealth waiting to jump groups.
how long before you raged.
how long before you said "F this" and left IC
if your wondering, it has never been good, this is as good as it gets, it will never be enjoyable, other pvp modes are far more fun so I recommend joining in on BG's or cyro, IC is trash, end.
PvP in this game is just about who can exploit OR cheat the hardest. Most. Not all. There's nothing fun about it. Never will be.
As someone who was in first place in a certain BGs for awhile, I heavily recommend staying away from it as well. It's got the same exploit lovers in it. The higher you go, the more toxic it will get. I stopped it after awhile because the extreme toxicity was there just like the teabagging Cyrodiil PvPers.
VaranisArano wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »To be honest, I wish it was even less 'solo PvE' friendly and still stand by the fact that you should HAVE to be risking 10k(5k) or something there to even contribute to flag caps etc.
Yeah, make the baseline PvP experience as painful as possible so it will remain a place just for jerks!
Great idea ZoS, are you paying attention?
Or you could take the time all of them did to become good at pvp.
That is the expectation now. New people need to be good before they can enjoy something and prey on others instead.
I am sure that will work great with a company that wants to get general people involved, right?
Well you're complaining about PVP being painful, god forbid you have to put in the same effort into pvp as you do in pve, but asking to be good at games is too much now. They've made it pretty easy to enjoy the event if you pve without ever having to enter and the city is meant to be pvp so, yes, the expectation is that you pvp. You can join farming groups for sewers and districts if you need safety in numbers so you dont even have to be that good at pvp either. This is also the 4th or 5th IC event and nothing has really changed besides the addition of siege merits. Maybe it's because this is how ZOS inended the area and event.
Uh. Point of Order here.
You do remember that this conversation started with someone asking to make the Imperial City event even harder than it normally is, right?
Specifically,To be honest, I wish it was even less 'solo PvE' friendly and still stand by the fact that you should HAVE to be risking 10k(5k) or something there to even contribute to flag caps etc.
You are berating FlopsyPrince for not wanting to "get good" at regular PVP, when they were objecting to not wanting PVP to be made even harder than it normally is. Not the same thing at all.
For that matter, I'm a PVPer and I think its a terrible idea to make IC harder than it is. ZOS designed it so we have the freedom to decide how many Tel Var stones we carry at any given time and I like that just the way it is!
Rave the Histborn wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »To be honest, I wish it was even less 'solo PvE' friendly and still stand by the fact that you should HAVE to be risking 10k(5k) or something there to even contribute to flag caps etc.
Yeah, make the baseline PvP experience as painful as possible so it will remain a place just for jerks!
Great idea ZoS, are you paying attention?
Or you could take the time all of them did to become good at pvp.
That is the expectation now. New people need to be good before they can enjoy something and prey on others instead.
I am sure that will work great with a company that wants to get general people involved, right?
Well you're complaining about PVP being painful, god forbid you have to put in the same effort into pvp as you do in pve, but asking to be good at games is too much now. They've made it pretty easy to enjoy the event if you pve without ever having to enter and the city is meant to be pvp so, yes, the expectation is that you pvp. You can join farming groups for sewers and districts if you need safety in numbers so you dont even have to be that good at pvp either. This is also the 4th or 5th IC event and nothing has really changed besides the addition of siege merits. Maybe it's because this is how ZOS inended the area and event.
Uh. Point of Order here.
You do remember that this conversation started with someone asking to make the Imperial City event even harder than it normally is, right?
Specifically,To be honest, I wish it was even less 'solo PvE' friendly and still stand by the fact that you should HAVE to be risking 10k(5k) or something there to even contribute to flag caps etc.
You are berating FlopsyPrince for not wanting to "get good" at regular PVP, when they were objecting to not wanting PVP to be made even harder than it normally is. Not the same thing at all.
For that matter, I'm a PVPer and I think its a terrible idea to make IC harder than it is. ZOS designed it so we have the freedom to decide how many Tel Var stones we carry at any given time and I like that just the way it is!
Hey, maybe ZOS will add the ability to buy flags in crown store now because people are tired of running around recapturing the same content.
Rave the Histborn wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »To be honest, I wish it was even less 'solo PvE' friendly and still stand by the fact that you should HAVE to be risking 10k(5k) or something there to even contribute to flag caps etc.
Yeah, make the baseline PvP experience as painful as possible so it will remain a place just for jerks!
Great idea ZoS, are you paying attention?
Or you could take the time all of them did to become good at pvp.
That is the expectation now. New people need to be good before they can enjoy something and prey on others instead.
I am sure that will work great with a company that wants to get general people involved, right?
Well you're complaining about PVP being painful, god forbid you have to put in the same effort into pvp as you do in pve, but asking to be good at games is too much now. They've made it pretty easy to enjoy the event if you pve without ever having to enter and the city is meant to be pvp so, yes, the expectation is that you pvp. You can join farming groups for sewers and districts if you need safety in numbers so you dont even have to be that good at pvp either. This is also the 4th or 5th IC event and nothing has really changed besides the addition of siege merits. Maybe it's because this is how ZOS inended the area and event.
Uh. Point of Order here.
You do remember that this conversation started with someone asking to make the Imperial City event even harder than it normally is, right?
Specifically,To be honest, I wish it was even less 'solo PvE' friendly and still stand by the fact that you should HAVE to be risking 10k(5k) or something there to even contribute to flag caps etc.
You are berating FlopsyPrince for not wanting to "get good" at regular PVP, when they were objecting to not wanting PVP to be made even harder than it normally is. Not the same thing at all.
For that matter, I'm a PVPer and I think its a terrible idea to make IC harder than it is. ZOS designed it so we have the freedom to decide how many Tel Var stones we carry at any given time and I like that just the way it is!
The conversation started that way, but we're on page 9 now. It's changed and evolved a bit, try to keep up.
I'm telling him to get better at pvp because "Yeah, make the baseline PvP experience as painful as possible". This is a pvp zone and the suggestion of adding requirements to the flag capture or more pvp elements could be useful. I forgot it's 2019 though and asking people to do better and not accepting "well i tried" as good enough is out of style. Hey, maybe ZOS will add the ability to buy flags in crown store now because people are tired of running around recapturing the same content.
Rave the Histborn wrote: »
Do you just randomly reply to everything without reading it?
I said i was OK WITH ADDING REQUIREMENTS, that's not automatically 5k tel var, take a second to breath and stop freaking out. You can retie the IC campaiwns to the 30day campaigns and you could only flip flags for your home campaign. IC wouldn't have the faction lock that Cyro does though.
The baseline of pvp isn't flag flipping and tel var so it wouldn't make it in any feasible way harder for new players. He also said "That is the expectation now. New people need to be good before they can enjoy something and prey on others instead.
I am sure that will work great with a company that wants to get general people involved, right?" I pointed out this is exactly what's intended and hasn't changed so making it harder wouldn't really be against that. The can make the PVP "harder" or more meaning without it affected new players.
magictucktuck wrote: »Just to note, imperial city was not really designed as PvP, originally you had to hold emperor to enter, and you could kill any stragglers that stayed in there after a flip but then only your faction could enter. but people didn't like being locked out so they made it a free for all.
I totally forgot about that lol
EDIT: this change was made after it released on PC but before It dropped on console IIRC
Finding a Group:FlopsyPrince wrote: »I don't care if requirements are added or not.
I would just like to see a way for people to truly learn, not just be gank targets. And to quit making it really easy to get ganked while pursuing daily tickets. (The dungeon runs are not a good alternative in my view since they are even more death inducing, at least for me.)
I am rather ambivalent otherwise.
I would probably try out PvP things more if I could play with a group that were just as good (and bad) as I am. But that is not possible as things are designed here, so I either become the ongoing target or avoid it altogether.
I play to have fun, not just to make someone else have fun. The latter is fine, but it must include some aspect of the former. It unfortunately does not now.
VaranisArano wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »
Do you just randomly reply to everything without reading it?
I said i was OK WITH ADDING REQUIREMENTS, that's not automatically 5k tel var, take a second to breath and stop freaking out. You can retie the IC campaiwns to the 30day campaigns and you could only flip flags for your home campaign. IC wouldn't have the faction lock that Cyro does though.
The baseline of pvp isn't flag flipping and tel var so it wouldn't make it in any feasible way harder for new players. He also said "That is the expectation now. New people need to be good before they can enjoy something and prey on others instead.
I am sure that will work great with a company that wants to get general people involved, right?" I pointed out this is exactly what's intended and hasn't changed so making it harder wouldn't really be against that. The can make the PVP "harder" or more meaning without it affected new players.
I clipped the rest of the conversation to fix the formatting error on the quote.
I did read your comment saying requirements could be added, which is why I was confused, because it contradicted your earlier comment about how FlopsyPrince needs to play IC as intended via the last several IC events which have no requirements.
Thanks for clarifying. You are okay with adding requirements - of some sort to be determined later - to Imperial City, which would change Imperial City from how ZOS currently intends it to be played.
I appreciate knowing that.
Now, let's dig into your argument.
1."Re-tie Imperial City to the 30-day campaigns."
Why exactly would ZOS revert a change they just made that improves performance issues in Cyrodiil? No offense, IC, but this 30-day campaigner doesnt want IC re-tied to the campaign, counting against our population queue and hurting performance.
2. "The baseline of pvp isn't flag flipping and tel var so it wouldn't make it in any feasible way harder for new players."
False. Flag-flipping and Tel Var is integral to playing PVP in Imperial City as currently intended by ZOS. Flag flipping is currently (though it wasn't always) required to capture a district in order to benefit from the increased Tel Var bonuses. So yes, adding requirements would make it harder for ALL players to engage in flag flipping because currently, the only requirement is that you can kill 3 NPC guards and survive there long enough to flip the flag.
Tel Var is...how the heck is that NOT a baseline of PVP in Imperial City? Its the main reason for players to attack each other! (Not the only reason, sure, but certainly the most lucrative reason.) If Tel Var requirements are added in order to participate in some IC activities, yes, it makes it harder for ALL players. Currently, you can do 100% of Imperial City while carrying 0 Tel Var around.
And for both of those situations, new players will always have it worse than experienced PVPers.
3. "I pointed out this is exactly what's intended and hasn't changed so making it harder wouldn't really be against that."
It makes no sense to argue "this (from context of FlopsyPrince's response, "this" means the status quo) is intended" AND "making it harder wouldn't change what's intended".
Um...actually? Adding requirements to the status quo that's currently how ZOS intends for Imperial City to be played DOES mean changing the current intentions to make it harder. Adding requirements that didnt exist before makes those activities harder than currently intended. That's what happens when you add requirements.
Needless to say, I disagree with adding more requirements than we already have. I think the current baseline of Imperial City is hard enough for new players as it is and doesnt need more requirements added. For that matter, as a more experienced PVPer myself, I dislike the suggested additional requirements because I have yet to see any reason why adding further requirements than we already have is not harmful, but rather necessary or beneficial to the Imperial City as a whole.
Rave the Histborn wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »
Do you just randomly reply to everything without reading it?
I said i was OK WITH ADDING REQUIREMENTS, that's not automatically 5k tel var, take a second to breath and stop freaking out. You can retie the IC campaiwns to the 30day campaigns and you could only flip flags for your home campaign. IC wouldn't have the faction lock that Cyro does though.
The baseline of pvp isn't flag flipping and tel var so it wouldn't make it in any feasible way harder for new players. He also said "That is the expectation now. New people need to be good before they can enjoy something and prey on others instead.
I am sure that will work great with a company that wants to get general people involved, right?" I pointed out this is exactly what's intended and hasn't changed so making it harder wouldn't really be against that. The can make the PVP "harder" or more meaning without it affected new players.
I clipped the rest of the conversation to fix the formatting error on the quote.
I did read your comment saying requirements could be added, which is why I was confused, because it contradicted your earlier comment about how FlopsyPrince needs to play IC as intended via the last several IC events which have no requirements.
Thanks for clarifying. You are okay with adding requirements - of some sort to be determined later - to Imperial City, which would change Imperial City from how ZOS currently intends it to be played.
I appreciate knowing that.
Now, let's dig into your argument.
1."Re-tie Imperial City to the 30-day campaigns."
Why exactly would ZOS revert a change they just made that improves performance issues in Cyrodiil? No offense, IC, but this 30-day campaigner doesnt want IC re-tied to the campaign, counting against our population queue and hurting performance.
2. "The baseline of pvp isn't flag flipping and tel var so it wouldn't make it in any feasible way harder for new players."
False. Flag-flipping and Tel Var is integral to playing PVP in Imperial City as currently intended by ZOS. Flag flipping is currently (though it wasn't always) required to capture a district in order to benefit from the increased Tel Var bonuses. So yes, adding requirements would make it harder for ALL players to engage in flag flipping because currently, the only requirement is that you can kill 3 NPC guards and survive there long enough to flip the flag.
Tel Var is...how the heck is that NOT a baseline of PVP in Imperial City? Its the main reason for players to attack each other! (Not the only reason, sure, but certainly the most lucrative reason.) If Tel Var requirements are added in order to participate in some IC activities, yes, it makes it harder for ALL players. Currently, you can do 100% of Imperial City while carrying 0 Tel Var around.
And for both of those situations, new players will always have it worse than experienced PVPers.
3. "I pointed out this is exactly what's intended and hasn't changed so making it harder wouldn't really be against that."
It makes no sense to argue "this (from context of FlopsyPrince's response, "this" means the status quo) is intended" AND "making it harder wouldn't change what's intended".
Um...actually? Adding requirements to the status quo that's currently how ZOS intends for Imperial City to be played DOES mean changing the current intentions to make it harder. Adding requirements that didnt exist before makes those activities harder than currently intended. That's what happens when you add requirements.
Needless to say, I disagree with adding more requirements than we already have. I think the current baseline of Imperial City is hard enough for new players as it is and doesnt need more requirements added. For that matter, as a more experienced PVPer myself, I dislike the suggested additional requirements because I have yet to see any reason why adding further requirements than we already have is not harmful, but rather necessary or beneficial to the Imperial City as a whole.
1. Does it have to be in Cyodiil to be part of the campaign or can the code it differently? Can it have it's own server and own population but your AP gained still gains towards your Cyro home campaign as it would be the IC inside it? Do you see beyond black and white?
2. Tel Var is an added bonus and pvp is in no way dependent on it. Flag flipping is just a way to gain added tel var but beyond that has no real affect on the zone. I"m saying if you add someting like having to be that faction to flip the zone or something could add some extra dynamic but the way people whine about it already, adding anything beyond stand there is beyond most people.
3. Adding a requirement like home campaign makes it "harder" so it would still work as intended (capturing flags/zones for your faction). You can add some small requirements and maintain the status quo, it doesn't have to be the apocalyptic event your mind is stuck on.
4. Again he was complaining that that would make the baseline of pvp harder, it wouldn't. Please stop trying to poison the well, you're being very disingenuous here.
BloodSkull_ESO wrote: »i hate this event i hate it even more when i want to get that siegemasters outfit and i can't get it because i cant complete the quests without getting zerged down by ad or ep and they could do us a favor and fix the sewer base camping but they won't because they dont give a *** ***
BloodSkull_ESO wrote: »i hate this event i hate it even more when i want to get that siegemasters outfit and i can't get it because i cant complete the quests without getting zerged down by ad or ep and they could do us a favor and fix the sewer base camping but they won't because they dont give a *** ***
VaranisArano wrote: »Did we really need to revive an old thread from a different event?
VaranisArano wrote: »Did we really need to revive an old thread from a different event?
LOL, well, it was either that or create a new one, but I don't think it has changed from event to event or lost relevancy.
If ZOS considers this a bad necro, I'll post my reply as a new thread.
VaranisArano wrote: »Did we really need to revive an old thread from a different event?
LOL, well, it was either that or create a new one, but I don't think it has changed from event to event or lost relevancy.
If ZOS considers this a bad necro, I'll post my reply as a new thread.
ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Did we really need to revive an old thread from a different event?
LOL, well, it was either that or create a new one, but I don't think it has changed from event to event or lost relevancy.
If ZOS considers this a bad necro, I'll post my reply as a new thread.
It's all so very relevant and shows nothing has changed.